Bryce FW
- Thread starter mountaineerhype2
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Systemic racism is alive and well if you look at the data objectively. This is a 14-year study of traffic stops in NC that confirmed "driving while black" is a thing:
- Blacks were 63 percent more likely to be stopped even though, as a whole, they drive 16 percent less. Taking into account less time on the road, blacks were about 95 percent more likely to be stopped.
- Blacks were 115 percent more likely than whites to be searched in a traffic stop (5.05 percent for blacks, 2.35 percent for whites).
- Contraband was more likely to be found in searches of white drivers.
The analysis left no doubt that the darker it got, the less likely it became that a black driver would be stopped. The reverse was true when the sky was lighter.
Are there unrelated factors that could affect the likelihood that someone is pulled over due to skin color? Of course. But there is a HUGE discrepancy (double the chance for being pulled over and searched) documented by the data, and it is unlikely it can all be explained away by reasons unrelated to racial profiling.
Well, in all fairness, the black population (black and mixed race) of WV is 5% or less of the total population, so using WV as a measuring stick for witnessing racial profiling isn't really useful. Even if it was happening at a ridiculously high rate here, you wouldn't be very likely to see it unless you actually lived in one of the areas with a relatively high black population. Berkeley County and Kanawha County are around 10-11%, and a few others are between 7 and 10%, but a large portion of our state is under 3%.
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Honest question...is racism really a major problem in the US? I grew up in WV...played college sports where I met and got to know minorities for the 1st time. I have at least 5 friends who have kids who have married outside of their race...and these parents are all major Trump supporters as well as their children and their partners. I have lived in Louisville where they bus kids to their high schools for racial equality. I have had more bosses who were not white, (over my lifetime about 60% were minority and 50% were female. I have only had a handful of white male bosses) All presidents or VP's of major corporations. All successful. I have promoted at least 5 minorities to managerial positions because they were outstanding at what they did, not the color of their skin.
Yes, there is racism in the US...and it will always be here...but it is not systemic and not as profound as we think it is. I have experienced more racism on the off topic board than I have actually experienced in my lifetime...all by liberals if you can believe that
Honest question...is racism really a major problem in the US? I grew up in WV...played college sports where I met and got to know minorities for the 1st time. I have at least 5 friends who have kids who have married outside of their race...and these parents are all major Trump supporters as well as their children and their partners. I have lived in Louisville where they bus kids to their high schools for racial equality. I have had more bosses who were not white, (over my lifetime about 60% were minority and 50% were female. I have only had a handful of white male bosses) All presidents or VP's of major corporations. All successful. I have promoted at least 5 minorities to managerial positions because they were outstanding at what they did, not the color of their skin.
Yes, there is racism in the US...and it will always be here...but it is not systemic and not as profound as we think it is. I have experienced more racism on the off topic board than I have actually experienced in my lifetime...all by liberals if you can believe that
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Did you read that study? I'm sorry., color me skeptical that it uncovers any real science that proves DWB...it's interesting to look at who the authors are and what they are getting paid for...
See my post about getting pulled over for being a young white professional driving into Edgewood around 9 on a Friday evening in the summer. He 100% profiled me and pulled me over because he saw me drive by while he sat at the burned out Sunoco station as said “that guy’s been out drinking since happy hour.”
My only point here is that absolutes don’t exist. Racism unfortunately still does (pervasiveness is debatable). Bad cops unfortunately still do (pervasiveness is debatable). But, absolutes do not.
I have spent the majority of my adult life in Cinti, OH, Louisville, KY and between NYC and Philly...other than having a NJ guy who pumped my gas who hinted that there was a KKK meeting, I have not seen any racism...and this goes for kids who have many minority friends. My son had a good friend at PSU who was accused of sexual assault. He was an ex PSU player accused (he was thrown off the the team but was allowed to stay in school) by a white sorority girl. He believed him until they met up in Vegas after college and saw first hand how big of a creep he was towards women. He changed his mind after that.
I have not read the underlying study for the second one cited and relied on the article. The author of the article includes their conclusions but does not give any numbers, which I do find frustrating, but I am not going to hunt down the original study to get them. According to the article, the researchers were able to find a pretty extensive data set of traffic stops at a set time (7:00 p.m.) along with the race of the drivers stopped.
As for "real science," it looks like the primary researcher on the stats was Sharad Goel, and his credentials look pretty solid.
The data came from the other researcher..proving racism using police data is not going to work...it does not take into account other factors as to why they were stopped...etc. There is racism in the US...but is not showing up in these studies.. to be honest...Biden has said racist things in the last 90 days which show how racism still exists in the older generation...but I keep hearing how he has never acted on it....much like those KKK people who have zero power and don't interact with minorities, but we keep hearing about how it is impacting everyone. This needs a real discussion and not throw bombs every 4 years.
Agreed...Country89 called a minority on this board an Uncle Tom. Another prominent person on this board called Obama an affirmative action President. Another one said he left NYC because of the poor (code for minorities)...and they all voted for Biden...who is the most racist President we have had since the 60'...progress(ive) I guess
Yes it dang sure is , & its illegal in P.A . I've been pulled over in just about every state for tinted windows & searched a few times , a cop cant tell the color of my skin & I'm driving a pick up but they dang sure pull me over .
Maryland state troopers ripped my truck apart looking for a gun a few years ago just because I have a cwp & told him I didnt have one with me because I was heading in to NYC, he didnt believe me ...I'm white
As a white guy I have been pulled over for this same exact thing in williamsport pa about 8 years ago , it was about 1 a.m just got off work & was heading to the hotel .
Tje reason the cops was truly pulling me over was I was driving my welding rig & going down a road that has 3 bars on it he didnt care about my smell good blocking my vision it was a reason to stop me & see if I was drinking ( pipelines are well known drunks ) skin color be dammed cops are looking to get bad people of the rd & will find any excuse to pull you over if you fit a profile. So if a cop pulls a black person over for not wearing a set belt is that racial profiling? It is a victimless crime, & actually can harm no one but that person .
Do you think that is enough of a reason to lock someone in a cage for 100% refusing to obey?
Because if you walk into a room and there's a flea and an elephant, the elephant will dominate as the topic of conversation.
I've probably told this story before, but I sat on a grand jury in Montgomery County, MD a couple of decades ago. It was a 1-day/week 3 month commitment. Anyhow, one case that came in front of us was from a drug bust. The policeman pulled the guy over at 2:00 AM because his window tint was too dark. The subsequent search of the vehicle revealed the drugs. I asked the obvious question. The answer from the DA was that the reason for the stop wasn't really in our purview. We were really there to assess the evidence found relative to the charges. While the question was reasonable, that was an argument for the accused's attorney to make to the judge.
After all of that, I can't tell you the ethnicity of the accused, so it is only tangentially related to the discussion.
You're driving by three bars at 1 am and you're a pipe fitter. You think that's equivalent to pulling over a young black male on an interstate in a rural area? What was being profiled n your case? 1 am traffic near bars. With the data we have, what would a reasonable person conclude is the reason BFW was pulled over?
On that case on a grand jury I kinda agree with the prosecutor. As a grand juror you are really deciding if the case should go to court and the question about the stop is a matter for a judge or jury to decide.
Could be a lot of reasons. There could have been a bolo for a car like his. At the end of the day the office did nothing wrong and he was given a warning.
I didn't disagree with him. I just wanted to make sure I clearly understood the GJ role with respect to that.
A lot of folks dread jury duty. I'm not saying that it's my favorite thing, but I feel like I learn a lot sitting on a jury. Outside of that 3-month stint, I sat on a jury for a criminal matter a decade or so ago in CO. In that case someone was hit with a small bat, and part of the evidence was a photo of the imprint left from the etching on the bat. One juror was certain that the photo was fake. She was wrong, but it got to the point where I recommended that she hit me with the bat to show her that it would leave the same imprint shown in the photo. She declined.
My Father, who had a short fuse and took offense to things never intended to be offensive always told me to yes sir and no sir any cop and be overly compliant.
His reasoning......well he told me they had guns and the authority to use them at their discretion. He told me that he saw things in his military service that made him smart enough to always assume that people with guns mean you harm and do nothing to piss them off even if provoked.
I am as certain as I can be that there is racial profiling but I'm also as certain that there that people see what they want to see. I watched people in this country riot over officers killing a black man that had a knife thrashing it wildly at them.
I can honestly say I would never want to be a police officer in this country. They cannot turn in the bad cops for fear of reprisal and the public seems to be against them for doing their jobs. I'm talking about the good cops of course.
dangling objects from a rear view mirror is indeed illegal in VA...so is riding a horse after sunset on a public street
On another note... I swore to myself I’d never post on the off topic board.... Vern hit the switch quick and caught me up
in short, being stared at for being with a black father (figure) is not a very fun experience...
Again, I’m not here to start a fire thread, but my parents divorced when I was too young to remember. My mom remarried a man who was half black/Korean (Korean War baby). He grew up in poverty in Logan but made a hell of a life for himself. Honestly, he was the most prominent father figure of my life and I wouldn’t trade the lessons he gave me for anything. That being said, I can’t tell you a single time he took me to the town center or dinner or anything for that matter and people didn’t stare or catch me alone to ask if everything was ok.
in short, being stared at for being with a black father (figure) is not a very fun experience...
What would you have done if an officer told you you're being pulled over for the air freshener hanging from you windshield? I would have said three things: 1) Do you have a card? Is you today camera on? 2) I'm recording this but I'm going to ask for yours as evidence. 3) Can you go ahead and write me a ticket, because I need to be on my way?
I know I would do that, because that's basically what I did. I was pulled over about 1 am leaving a cinema that serves dinner and legal beverages. My wife and daughter were with me. I pulled over pretty quickly in a very safe and well lit area. The officer didn't come up to my window for more than 20 minutes. He came up to my window, "I started to say, "Good evening officer," but he cut me off and just said, "License, registration, proof of insurance," as he shone his flashlight inside the car. Which I had in my left hand. He took it and left for another 23 minutes. I was keeping time at this point. After 15 minutes I told me daughter to start videoing. He came back and said to me, "Any reason you were weaving onto the shoulder back there?" I said, "None that I'm aware of. Where did I weave off the road?" He told me a specific place. I responded, "There are rumble strips right next to the white line." Then I looked at my wife and daughter and asked, "Did either of you hear me run over rumble strips?" They both said, "No." Then I turned to the officer and asked for his card, to which he said, "No, but my name will be on the ticket." I said, "Good. Do you have a body cam on?" He said he didn't have one, to which I said, "That's OK. I've been record and I am going to get a copy of your dash cam." He walked back to his cruiser and immediately brought up my license, registration, and insurance. He said, "I'm going to let you off with a verbal warning. Drive safe." I said, "You too."
That's one of two slightly negative interactions I've had with police officers (not count the ones I actually knew). The other was when I got a ticket for improper tags on a Enterprise rental I was driving. I have the receipt/registration, but the license just said "Tags Applied For." Enterprise took care of it. The point is I knew that officer had nothing. He simply pulled me over because I was leaving a place that serves alcohol. I didn't leave my lane and I wasn't speeding. So, I went after the officer for pulling me over for no reason. Point is do you think in the same situation BFW would have felt safe doing what I did?
I'm not sure, but you may be missing the point. Do you seriously believe the racial prejudice against whites is anywhere close to the racial prejudice against blacks?
First off I live here in Wytheville...so glad to see how “sketchy” this area is perceived lol
Most of you only see what’s right off the exits and do not look any further so try harder when you want to make generalizations haha...more WV fans here than you might think....speaking of generalizations the FIFOs and Yanks are the most talked about when it comes to driving skills or lack thereof according to the truckers lol
The cops here DO HAVE A QUOTA! and while you think it’s ok to go 5 above the speed limit ANYWHERE in Va without getting a ticket then you are sadly mistaken...same as driving through Summersville just it’s like that throughout the state here
The speed limit is now 60 coming/leaving Wytheville on I77 due to construction and the signs are very noticeable so no excuses if you get the hefty fine in a construction zone
I dare say I travel 77 from here to Beckley and 81 to Roanoke or Bristol more than everyone on this board combined in your lifetime cause I do it everyday so I can honestly say that people with out of state tags regardless of what state absolutely SPEED like they stole something...you can do it through WV but the game changes once you come through East River tunnel but no one changes their habits
Bland County and Carroll County will nail you just as easily as Wythe County too btw because THAT is their revenue...the sheriffs department is huge for Wythe Co. btw
I won’t say this was or wasn’t race based cause I do not know the cop or his heart but I do know that getting pulled over around here is a given regardless of what color you are or whatever other profiling measure you want to use because I see people of all races, classes, states, etc pulled over
Most of you only see what’s right off the exits and do not look any further so try harder when you want to make generalizations haha...more WV fans here than you might think....speaking of generalizations the FIFOs and Yanks are the most talked about when it comes to driving skills or lack thereof according to the truckers lol
The cops here DO HAVE A QUOTA! and while you think it’s ok to go 5 above the speed limit ANYWHERE in Va without getting a ticket then you are sadly mistaken...same as driving through Summersville just it’s like that throughout the state here
The speed limit is now 60 coming/leaving Wytheville on I77 due to construction and the signs are very noticeable so no excuses if you get the hefty fine in a construction zone
I dare say I travel 77 from here to Beckley and 81 to Roanoke or Bristol more than everyone on this board combined in your lifetime cause I do it everyday so I can honestly say that people with out of state tags regardless of what state absolutely SPEED like they stole something...you can do it through WV but the game changes once you come through East River tunnel but no one changes their habits
Bland County and Carroll County will nail you just as easily as Wythe County too btw because THAT is their revenue...the sheriffs department is huge for Wythe Co. btw
I won’t say this was or wasn’t race based cause I do not know the cop or his heart but I do know that getting pulled over around here is a given regardless of what color you are or whatever other profiling measure you want to use because I see people of all races, classes, states, etc pulled over
I'm so sorry that you were treated that way but I'm glad that you had such a positive influence in your life like him. I would love to hear your story some time
I was being profiled as a drinking construction worker was a lot of workers there spending big paydays at the bars , I would bet he was profiled as a drug runner & cops used the smell good as an excuse, that is a trafficking rt . Bet cops pull a lot of people over for all kinds of stupid stuff just to get a look see , not saying its always right but it has helped get drunks & drug dealers off the rds . I'm sure there is racist cops out there but every time a black person gets pulled over for something stupid dont mean its racist.