At least you went to the most reputable and knowledgeable of sources......(sarcasm)
Bruce Branch Commits to BYU
- Thread starter TheAssignment9
- Start date
Dude you are ALL OVER THE MAP.
Nobody in this thread is saying we HAVE to get 5-star talent. You are just putting words in people's mouths all over this thread.
But we HAVE TO GET TALENT!
You know what every national champion in the last 10 years has had? Either a lottery pick, an All-American, or in most cases, BOTH.
You know what this team has? NEITHER.
Literally nobody in this thread, especially me, has said we HAVE to build off 5-star Freshman.
But clearly Pope WANTS to have some because he has said as much in multiple interviews, AND he offered more than 20 kids from this class and has landed ZERO.
This whole thread was about the need to upgrade our TALENT, whether it be 5-Star freshman or big portal talent, I don't care, but there is clear and present need to upgrade our TALENT and you seem to be the only one in this thread arguing and resisting that idea.
Wrong. I have looked at every single one of those factors.
This is what you posted btw:
"Pope better land Stokes and a KILLER portal class."
My answer -- very simply is no, he doesn't have to do either of those. He needs to win. And if he has the 30th ranked portal class and it wins, that's what matters. Period.
Last 10 years, every single national champ --- zero top 10 high school class, zero top 10 portal classes. Zero.
Do you enjoy just making things up? I really hate how you made me go make this list for you.
2025 UF:
Walter Clayton Jr, 1st team AA
2024- UCONN
Tristan Newton, 1st team AA
Stephan Castle (lottery pick)
Donovan Clingan (lottery pick)
2023- UCONN
Jordan Hawkins (lottery pick)
2022- Kansas
Ochai Agbaji (1st team AA)
Ochai Agbaji (lottery pick)
2021- Baylor
Jared Butler (1st team AA)
Davion Mitchel (lottery pick)
2020- No Tournament
2019- Virginia
De’Andre Hunter (All-American)
De’Andre Hunter (lottery pick)
2018- Villanova
Jalen Brunson (1st team AA)
Mikal Bridges (Lottery Pick)
2017- UNC
Justin Jackson (1st team AA)
Justin Jackson (lottery pick)
Etc. etc. etc.
There is a clear and common trend between TALENT and WINNING.
You are the only one that doesn't want to acknowledge it because you've been backed into a corner multiple times in this thread alone.
Also, regarding your claim above:
2023 UCONN- #3 ranked recruiting class, won the title in 2024
2021 Kansas- #10 ranked recruiting class, won the title in 2022
I am not going to keep doing research to call you out on making things up but it's pretty clear that you just make things up to suit your argument regardless of the facts behind them.
I'm not going to engage anymore, this is absurd that we are arguing with someone who doesn't believe we have a talent issue.
43-22 in two seasons is "working best for him?"
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There are people desperately hoping that all Pope needs to do is improve as a coach and somehow that’ll make things better. The man is 53. He’s been a coach for over a decade at this point. What more can he learn to become a great coach or even a good coach?
It’s not going to happen. He needs better talent and preferably smaller rosters that would likely come with more a talented roster to overcome his shortcomings as a coach. I doubt it’ll be enough, but whatever.
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Don’t let village idiot hear you say that, he’s done lots of research showing that you actually don’t need to be talented at all to win.
And he’ll make up stats about past national champions that aren’t actually true.
So Pope leaves BYU for UK.
BYU’s recruiting and record gets better.
UK’s recruiting and record gets worse.
I think we need more data to come to a conclusion.
BYU’s recruiting and record gets better.
UK’s recruiting and record gets worse.
I think we need more data to come to a conclusion.
That’s fine for coaches who are good at finding diamonds in the rough and building rosters without needing a bunch of elite players. But Pope hasn’t shown he is that kind of coach. If he can’t build an elite roster, he needs elite talent to outweigh his shortcomings.
Talent level is fine. What you are too dumb to understand is it takes more than talent alone to win championships. You can do some basic research and learn that, but you won't but it's too much work for you. Having talent AND having returning starters equals winning at a high level. Also, not having your starting point guard injured for the season helps too. We have an opportunity for key players to come back next year. Players that are familiar with the coach, and each other. If we get our core group back, and add a serviceable replacement for Oweh (who we got via portal) through the portal, and pick up 1 or 2 more solid players with experience, I believe we are a top 5 team. Statistics show you need two returning starters to win a championship. There's a good chance we get Chandler and Moreno back, plus Jelavic if you count him. That meets the statistical requirement. We also likely get back Cam and Hawthorne, both of whom are talented players with a year in Popes system under their belts. So yes, talent is there. Just need to get the guys back that we can, feel in a couple of pieces through the portal, and have better injury luck. But you'll make some silly response to this because you prefer hanging banners for winning recruiting battles rather than final fours. Calipari is proud of you.
I’m not reading past the first sentence where you said our talent is fine.
happy for you though, or sorry that happened.
He answered your question. You lack the vocabulary, logic, and frankly the common sense to understand his response. So rather than admit ignorance, you say his response is "word vomit" as a retort. This is what stupid people do when they lack the ability to have a cohesive debate. You're out of your league. Maybe you are the one that needs more talent between those ears of yours.
You literally started this thread with a picture of a 5 star guy and said "Pope better get a 5 star guy (Stokes)." Are you so mentally challenged that you can't remember your own thread you started?? At this point I feel like you have to be playing a parody of an ignorant fan. No one can be that bad. Right? RIGHT??
Exactly what I would expect from someone who doesn't have a point to their arguments.
Very level headed and great take imo. Pope absolutely has to have at least a couple of top tier guys to succeed here. The standard here is and always should be much higher than BYU or most any other school for that matter! THIS IS UK!!!! WE ARE UK and we don’t settle for 2nd best! Just the way things are with UK basketball! If Pope can’t adjust and succeed at a much higher level then he will have to go! Here’s to hoping he gets it together!
Kentucky hasn't ever won anything that matters without at least some top tier talent.
Pope has not won anything that matters with the teams he has had so far. Maybe he will buck my first point trend but nothing so far has shown that to be a strong possibility.
Pope has not won anything that matters with the teams he has had so far. Maybe he will buck my first point trend but nothing so far has shown that to be a strong possibility.
Why can't we get 5 star talent? Of course, with Pope we should settle for A recruit. I agree at the end of the day UK fans won't care where we get the players, portal, HS, or church league, as long as they win. Unfortunately, when you can't even win your own conference and you look at the schedule for the Top 25 teams on a website and you don't see KENTUCKY, chances are pretty low that you will not win a title. That is what Pope will be measured by. We shouldn't settle or be content with any coach that isn't a winner. No matter if they went to Kentucky or is a very nice guy.
WIthout getting into this argument.. It really feels like Kentucky's roster is a step or two behind from where it should be, if it wants to win the title. I don't know what other coach is making this roster into a contender with 3 of its top7 guys out.
I don't know if Pope is the guy for the job. I'd say currently I'm at 30/70 for yes he is.. but that's gone from 100/0 to 0/100, so I've been all over the map. It sounds like we're going to keep him for one more year, and the intriguing thing about that is we might be able to see what he can do when he doesn't have Mitch, has a better AD/GM tandem, and maybe some things fixed within JMI. Is that enough for him to be a contender? I don't know. But, I think it's worth finding out. Pope does a lot of things really well.
I don't know if Pope is the guy for the job. I'd say currently I'm at 30/70 for yes he is.. but that's gone from 100/0 to 0/100, so I've been all over the map. It sounds like we're going to keep him for one more year, and the intriguing thing about that is we might be able to see what he can do when he doesn't have Mitch, has a better AD/GM tandem, and maybe some things fixed within JMI. Is that enough for him to be a contender? I don't know. But, I think it's worth finding out. Pope does a lot of things really well.
I swear, this is the post of the day. Hope folks can scream "We are Kentucky" and then wet themselves everytime a different college signs a player amazes me
Getting talent is important but getting consistency, effort, retention, and development are just as essential. As we can all attest.. roster construction and financial responsibility are vital in creating a title team. What good is it if we pay Stokes 6 million and only have 10 left over? Who is to say we will have 22 million again to spend on next years roster? How much money will the new AD allow us to spend?
If you look at Florida.. the best front court in the nation… how many of those guys were top tier talent? What were their high school rankings? Pretty sure none of them were 5 star guys. The only 5 star they have is their worst starter. Yes, getting talent is important, but it isn’t everything.
If you look at Florida.. the best front court in the nation… how many of those guys were top tier talent? What were their high school rankings? Pretty sure none of them were 5 star guys. The only 5 star they have is their worst starter. Yes, getting talent is important, but it isn’t everything.
If you pay Stokes 6, Malachi 2, Chandler 2, kam 2, jelly 1, Hawthorne 1… not very much left over for 2 elite guards we need out of the portal to run point.
And it's not like they are killing it either. They've dropped off. They're just about where we are and I'd argue with more talent. Granted they've had some injuries but they've slumped for sure.
I use Rivals for every recruiting topic. It allows my methodology to be consistent. You’re right that I did misspeak it isn’t top 10 recruiting classes its top 5. I did this case study many months ago and it’s still on this site.
2021 Team Rankings…tell me where you see Kansas…uhhh you don’t.
2021 Industry Basketball Team Recruiting Rankings
A list of the top 2021 Basketball teams in order of recruiting rankings solely based off of the Rivals Industry Ranking
2023 Team Rankings…UConn is 7th
2023 Industry Basketball Team Recruiting Rankings
A list of the top 2023 Basketball teams in order of recruiting rankings solely based off of the Rivals Industry Ranking
Point remains the same. There’s a reason none of these championship teams had top recruiting classes. If it was important as y’all say it is, we’d see a strong correlation between champions and recruiting classes.
And I have to wonder how you think we were able to come back from down 19 at Tennessee without talent? Y’all must think Pope is the greatest bench coach of all time.
Someone tell Duke they need to hit the portal hard. So they can have success like Mark Pope.I use Rivals for every recruiting topic. It allows my methodology to be consistent. You’re right that I did misspeak it isn’t top 10 recruiting classes its top 5. I did this case study many months ago and it’s still on this site.
2021 Team Rankings…tell me where you see Kansas…uhhh you don’t.
2021 Industry Basketball Team Recruiting Rankings
A list of the top 2021 Basketball teams in order of recruiting rankings solely based off of the Rivals Industry Rankingwww.on3.com
2023 Team Rankings…UConn is 7th
2023 Industry Basketball Team Recruiting Rankings
A list of the top 2023 Basketball teams in order of recruiting rankings solely based off of the Rivals Industry Ranking
Point remains the same. There’s a reason none of these championship teams had top recruiting classes. If it was important as y’all say it is, we’d see a strong correlation between champions and recruiting classes.
Goes both ways, hoss. You usually have a better chance at a title with those elite top 5 high school guys. Than trying to dig through the portal.
Based on what?
I did the work to form my opinion. Right here…you can see the championship rosters right here…
https://www.on3.com/boards/threads/...hopes-rivals-ranking-ten-year-survey.8454718/
So you want guys ranked 5-10 (or lower) but not top 5 guys. Yeah that makes sense.
Why are you just doing titles? How many of those kids helped their teams get to elite 8s or final fours? Win conference titles? Winning the title is very hard. Even with a good team.
Yep that’s literally what I said and that was precisely the point I made….cmon dude. I know it isn’t that complicated. The point is that it DOESNT MATTER if they are top 5. It matters if they are TALENTED (duh) but are a good fit, work in the team concept, are available and can stay in the program to progress.
I also did it for final fours. Because if this kind of BS accusation. I have all the data if you want it but y’all don’t care. You’re right because you’re right and I’m wrong simply because I’m dumb. It’s as simple as that. Just overlook the circular reasoning aspect because you have the masses on your side and that trumps logic and facts.
Are you under the impression top 5 guys aren't talented lol. What is the point of this "research" you keep talking about
Ok bro. My take is, I'd take a composite 5 star high schooler. Like John Wall, Cooper Flagg, AD, Zion, Boozer, AJ D, over Otega Oweh and Lamont Butler. Ideally, We'd have a mix of those types on the team. You need that. Too many freshman and you get late Cal era. Too many lesser talented but experienced players gets you Mark Pope. Why? Because you can't coach or develop talent like that. There's a reason Lamont Butler and Otega Oweh were in college for 5-6 years.
