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Border control & jobs

D

Dadar

All-Conference
Dec 21, 2003
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What jobs do the illegals crossing the border work in that Trump keeps ranting about?

I believe most are in areas that would be easy to find employment if physically able.

Yardwork, roofers, wmt deliveries, .... All honorable jobs that are better than where they came from.

Regime fees are going to jump through the roof.

Population demographics are important to capital markets. Balance within the population by age is a key factor for the economy. The US is very different from a country like Japan which has little culture diversity and now has an aging population. Japan addressed the aging population by basically moving production to other countries farming out the labor needs.

Agree the border needs to be controlled, but there is a lot more to this.

What Trump is pushing is autocracy.
Is that what our population really wants. I totally agree change is needed, but not what he is pushing.
 
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TigerGrowls

TigerGrowls

Heisman
Dec 21, 2001
44,180
33,199
113
Dadar said:
What jobs do the illegals crossing the border work in that Trump keeps ranting about?

I believe most are in areas that would be easy to find employment if physically able.

Yardwork, roofers, wmt deliveries, .... All honorable jobs that are better than where they came from.

Regime fees are going to jump through the roof.

Population demographics are important to capital markets. Balance within the population by age is a key factor for the economy. The US is very different from a country like Japan which has little culture diversity and now has an aging population. Japan addressed the aging population by basically moving production to other countries farming out the labor needs.

Agree the border needs to be controlled, but there is a lot more to this.

What Trump is pushing is autocracy.
Is that what our population really wants. I totally agree change is needed, but not what he is pushing.
Click to expand...
Send them all home and they can learn some valuable skills and then get in line to immigrate legally.
 
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D

Dadar

All-Conference
Dec 21, 2003
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Agree the border is a problem. Why did Trump stop the bi partison bill to help control the border?

Can you give a coherent answer to this? Guess his personal priority to stay out of jail was a higher priority
 
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S

scotchtiger

Heisman
Dec 15, 2005
134,628
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There should be things here we can all agree on. Any sort of government assistance being provided to illegals should end immediately. Criminals should be deported. Those not working should go.

But it’s a very real point that illegals are doing jobs today that Americans either won’t do or won’t do for the same wage. We need to balance that.

My thought has always been that they need to come out of the shadows and register in some way. If you meet certain qualifications - good employment record, not a criminal, self-sufficient, been here for X years, etc - then you get to stay. You will pay taxes. You will not receive government assistance of any kind. But you can stay and work.

Anyone not registered during the available window is deported. You had a chance.
 
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fatpiggy

fatpiggy

Heisman
Aug 18, 2002
23,878
22,334
113
Democrats CONTINUE to miss the point (shocker we know).

legal immigration = Ok

Illegal immigration = Not ok

We want immigrants, just get in line and do it the right way.

Want a better / faster immigration system? We agree.

The reason the last bill did not pass, was very simply because it did not stop illegal immigration.
 
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yoshi121374

yoshi121374

Heisman
Jan 26, 2006
12,867
21,862
113
Broheim said:
A bill wasn’t needed to enforce our border and immigration laws.
Click to expand...
Not really. You need to change the laws, what is currently happening is completely legal based on our current bills.

One thing nobody is discussing about deporting illegal immigrants is what will be done with children who were born here, and due to the US Constitution are US citizens?

Are you going to deport the parents? Who then takes care of the kids? I promise you many of the immigrants who came here to escape violence in Central America will leave their kids here for the opportunity that America gives them, rather than take them back there.

I agree with much of what @scotchtiger is saying. We need to figure out how to get them to register and pay taxes
 
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B

Broheim

All-American
Aug 15, 2022
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yoshi121374 said:
Not really. You need to change the laws, what is currently happening is completely legal based on our current bills.

One thing nobody is discussing about deporting illegal immigrants is what will be done with children who were born here, and due to the US Constitution are US citizens?

Are you going to deport the parents? Who then takes care of the kids? I promise you many of the immigrants who came here to escape violence in Central America will leave their kids here for the opportunity that America gives them, rather than take them back there.

I agree with much of what @scotchtiger is saying. We need to figure out how to get them to register and pay taxes
Click to expand...
None of that precluded Border Czar Harris and the Biden administration from enforcing our border. Had they done that they might still be in power.
 
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yoshi121374

yoshi121374

Heisman
Jan 26, 2006
12,867
21,862
113
Broheim said:
None of that precluded Border Czar Harris and the Biden administration from enforcing our border. Had they done that they might still be in power.
Click to expand...

Yes it did. Educate yourself about the laws and the Executive Order that Trump used, due to Covid that allowed him to lock down the borders.
 
S

scotchtiger

Heisman
Dec 15, 2005
134,628
22,264
113
yoshi121374 said:
Yes it did. Educate yourself about the laws and the Executive Order that Trump used, due to Covid that allowed him to lock down the borders.
Click to expand...

On the flip side, why did the Biden/Harris admin so enthusiastically reverse Trumps policies within months of taking control? Of course we now know that was a horrible idea.
 
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leetp

leetp

Heisman
Dec 6, 2021
15,118
20,814
113
Dadar said:
What jobs do the illegals crossing the border work in that Trump keeps ranting about?

I believe most are in areas that would be easy to find employment if physically able.

Yardwork, roofers, wmt deliveries, .... All honorable jobs that are better than where they came from.

Regime fees are going to jump through the roof.

Population demographics are important to capital markets. Balance within the population by age is a key factor for the economy. The US is very different from a country like Japan which has little culture diversity and now has an aging population. Japan addressed the aging population by basically moving production to other countries farming out the labor needs.

Agree the border needs to be controlled, but there is a lot more to this.

What Trump is pushing is autocracy.
Is that what our population really wants. I totally agree change is needed, but not what he is pushing.
Click to expand...
You bring up some good points, but I don't get the leap to autocracy. I mean, sure, Trump my desire a free hand as a means to carry out is policy....but what policy hawk doesn't? Nevertheless, we are not an autocracy, so it matters not.

As far as manpower goes, I have no doubt the immigration policy will adapt to labor demands. With the proper impetus, we can devise a way to import labor at or above present illegal immigration rates.
 
dpic73

dpic73

Heisman
Jul 27, 2005
29,447
21,736
113
scotchtiger said:
On the flip side, why did the Biden/Harris admin so enthusiastically reverse Trumps policies within months of taking control? Of course we now know that was a horrible idea.
Click to expand...
They were playing to the progressive fringe and if there's anything at all we learned from this election, it's that Democrats need to govern from the middle and sideline the far-left as much as possible. I can live with AOC because I think she has reedemable qualities but the rest of the Squad are out of touch and need to find other careers.
 
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scotchtiger

Heisman
Dec 15, 2005
134,628
22,264
113
dpic73 said:
They were playing to the progressive fringe and if there's anything at all we learned from this election, it's that Democrats need to govern from the middle and sideline the far-left as much as possible. I can live with AOC because I think she has reedemable qualities but the rest of the Squad are out of touch and need to find other careers.
Click to expand...

This is what made Kamala such a horrible candidate. She is the far left. Furthest left voting record in the senate plus a litany of clips of her supporting hard left, unpopular policies. She’s also viewed as the poster child for DEI, which has become increasingly unpopular.
 
TigerGrowls

TigerGrowls

Heisman
Dec 21, 2001
44,180
33,199
113
scotchtiger said:
There should be things here we can all agree on. Any sort of government assistance being provided to illegals should end immediately. Criminals should be deported. Those not working should go.

But it’s a very real point that illegals are doing jobs today that Americans either won’t do or won’t do for the same wage. We need to balance that.

My thought has always been that they need to come out of the shadows and register in some way. If you meet certain qualifications - good employment record, not a criminal, self-sufficient, been here for X years, etc - then you get to stay. You will pay taxes. You will not receive government assistance of any kind. But you can stay and work.

Anyone not registered during the available window is deported. You had a chance.
Click to expand...

I would support something like this as long as its done right. Millions have to be deported though no matter how you slice it and they all need to turn themselves in if they want to stay and then do it legally meeting whatever requirements are set.
 
S

scotchtiger

Heisman
Dec 15, 2005
134,628
22,264
113
TruePatriot said:
So much stupid in this thread. Illegal immigrants paid $100 billion in taxes in 2022.
Click to expand...

TigerGrowls said:
Fake news!! Hundreds of billions in taxpayer funds have been spent on illegals this year alone.
Click to expand...

I have good news for both of you. My proposal (noted earlier in the thread) would enable billions more in tax collections from illegals AND eliminate billions of spending on illegals. Win win!
 
D

Dadar

All-Conference
Dec 21, 2003
4,482
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113
Population demographics is a major factor for for capitalism. China is currently having issues with this. This has played a role in Japan moving production to foreign markets basically farming out the labor and bringing revenue home to aging population.

The US has a problem with the demographic age distribution that morphed after WW II.

"Lower birth rate trends can have a major impact on the size of the labor force. However, immigration can contribute to population growth and the labor force, making up to some degree for the declining number of births._

Maybe this is why Vance keeps pushing the US to have more babies Any way you look at it, there are significant ramifications for how the border problem can affect economic well being. Even if the birth rate increases, we would be looking at at least 18 to 20 years for it to be effective in replacing the current labor element provided by from South America.

The main issue IMHO is national security. The importance of foreign trade to the US economy renders the complete control virtually impossible for current conditions. Perhaps technology will play a larger role in the future. The growth of AI and robotics should mitigate this to some degree in the future. What we wish for usually has consequences that are unimaginable. It is hard for me to see this doing jobs like roofing, landscaping and maintenance, etc.. Who knows? The technologies we have today were unimaginable to all but a few in the past, especially pre digital tech and the internet.

This article has a lot of good and factual information about population demographics since WW II and importance to the US economy that is seldom discussed in conversations about border control


 
P

PalmettoTiger1

Heisman
Jan 24, 2009
12,527
12,298
113
Dadar said:
Agree the border is a problem. Why did Trump stop the bi partison bill to help control the border?

Can you give a coherent answer to this? Guess his personal priority to stay out of jail was a higher priority
Click to expand...
Really

The bill was an abortion

Trumps plans are fantastic

Keep up the resistance

Resistance makes one stronger
 
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D

Dadar

All-Conference
Dec 21, 2003
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Seems like we agree on many problems but see the solutions from different perspectives. Hopefully a day will come when I will be able to gladly admit being wrong. 🤞✌️
 
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dpic73

dpic73

Heisman
Jul 27, 2005
29,447
21,736
113
leetp said:
...and then get most of it back when they file their taxes at the end of the year. It's not like they have to worry about an audit.
Click to expand...
  • In a large majority of states (40), undocumented immigrants pay higher state and local tax rates than the top 1 percent of households living within their borders.
  • Income tax payments by undocumented immigrants are affected by laws that require them to pay more than otherwise similarly situated U.S. citizens. Undocumented immigrants are often barred from receiving meaningful tax credits and sometimes do not claim refunds they are owed due to lack of awareness, concern about their immigration status, or insufficient access to tax preparation assistance.
  • More than a third of the tax dollars paid by undocumented immigrants go toward payroll taxes dedicated to funding programs that these workers are barred from accessing. Undocumented immigrants paid $25.7 billion in Social Security taxes, $6.4 billion in Medicare taxes, and $1.8 billion in unemployment insurance taxes in 2022.
itep.org

Tax Payments by Undocumented Immigrants

Undocumented immigrants paid $96.7 billion in federal, state, and local taxes in 2022. Providing access to work authorization for undocumented immigrants would increase their tax contributions both because their wages would rise and because their rates of tax compliance would increase.
itep.org itep.org
 
leetp

leetp

Heisman
Dec 6, 2021
15,118
20,814
113
yoshi121374 said:
Yes it did. Educate yourself about the laws and the Executive Order that Trump used, due to Covid that allowed him to lock down the borders.
Click to expand...
Please educate me, then. What is it about our laws that are lacking? The law establishing immigration procedures are not complex, and to the best of my knowledge, none of the recent so-called border bills actually changed the United States Code of law as it pertains to lawful and unlawful immigration. We're not all proposed changes largely administrative, dealing primarily with which resources would be made available to be very narrow list of initiatives? The reason our boarder is an unenforceable mess is the lack of priority it has been given throughout decades of neglect. BOTH parties are complicit in this neglect.
 
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yoshi121374

yoshi121374

Heisman
Jan 26, 2006
12,867
21,862
113
leetp said:
Please educate me, then. What is it about our laws that are lacking? The law establishing immigration procedures are not complex, and to the best of my knowledge, none of the recent so-called boarder bills actually changed the United States Code of law as it pertains to lawful and unlawful. We're not all proposed changes largely administrative, dealing primarily with which resources would be made available to be very narrow list of initiatives? The reason our boarder is an unenforceable mess is the lack of priority it has been given throughout decades of neglect. BOTH parties are complicit in this neglect.
Click to expand...

My understanding isn't deep but as I understand it:

Basically the current laws are that when someone comes into the country and asks for asylum they are allowed to stay until the case is adjudicated in court. Thus pertains to illegal as well as legal immigrants.

There is a massive backlog of these cases and that is a leading cause for the amount of immigrants here on temporary status. The bi-partisan plan that Trump killed would have given us funding for additional judges and courts to move these cases quicker.

As many of us have stated, there is a ton of complexity and nuance to the immigration issue. The vast majority of immigrants are coming to America to give their families a better chance at a future. They want the American dream. Demonizing all immigrants is not only untrue, it's a frankly Un-American.
 
leetp

leetp

Heisman
Dec 6, 2021
15,118
20,814
113
yoshi121374 said:
My understanding isn't deep but as I understand it:

Basically the current laws are that when someone comes into the country and asks for asylum they are allowed to stay until the case is adjudicated in court. Thus pertains to illegal as well as legal immigrants.

There is a massive backlog of these cases and that is a leading cause for the amount of immigrants here on temporary status. The bi-partisan plan that Trump killed would have given us funding for additional judges and courts to move these cases quicker.

As many of us have stated, there is a ton of complexity and nuance to the immigration issue. The vast majority of immigrants are coming to America to give their families a better chance at a future. They want the American dream. Demonizing all immigrants is not only untrue, it's a frankly Un-American.
Click to expand...
First let me clarify that I am pro immigrant. I have nothing but deep respect for the migrant worker. In fact, I have far more respect for the migrant work than I do for the America youth of today. I want a border that has the capacity to process all the migrant labor our economy demands. Not only does meet our country's needs, but it awards the migrant worker the dignity they deserve.

On asylum, you are correct.
Ref 8 USC 1158: Asylum
(a) Authority to apply for asylum
(1) In general
Any alien who is physically present in the United States or who arrives in the United States (whether or not at a designated port of arrival and including an alien who is brought to the United States after having been interdicted in international or United States waters), irrespective of such alien's status, may apply for asylum in accordance with this section or, where applicable, section 1225(b) of this title.
Click to expand...

About this so-called bipartisan boarder bill.
  1. It was a 118-billion-dollar bill that sent 60 billion, to Ukraine, and 14.1 billion to Israel, and 14.8 billion in other forms of international aid. In fact, only 20.2 billion was marked for boarder security--or just 17% of the bill's funding. Calling it a "border bill" is more than just disingenuous.
  2. The bill was likely dead without Trump. 6 Dems, including Sanders (I) voted against it along with all of the anti-Trump wing of the Senate, save Romney. The bill needed 60 votes to pass. It wasn't going to get it.
  3. Calling the bill bipartisan is also at least a little disingenuous. The Bill was introduced by Chris Murphy (D) with support from Sinema (I) and Lankford (R), however the bill was never well received by the Republicans. Even Lankford withdrew support for the bill in the end.
  4. The bill's emergency provisions could only be activated if there were more than 5,000 encounters a day over a 7-day period (or more than 8,500 on a single day). This befuddles me. Why have this in there? We can't handle numbers at even half that rate. If we are already overwhelmed with years of asylum backlogs, why not enact the provision straight away? This bill was nothing but pollical theater.
 
yoshi121374

yoshi121374

Heisman
Jan 26, 2006
12,867
21,862
113
leetp said:
First let me clarify that I am pro immigrant. I have nothing but deep respect for the migrant worker. In fact, I have far more respect for the migrant work than I do for the America youth of today. I want a border that has the capacity to process all the migrant labor our economy demands. Not only does meet our country's needs, but it awards the migrant worker the dignity they deserve.

On asylum, you are correct.


About this so-called bipartisan boarder bill.
  1. It was a 118-billion-dollar bill that sent 60 billion, to Ukraine, and 14.1 billion to Israel, and 14.8 billion in other forms of international aid. In fact, only 20.2 billion was marked for boarder security--or just 17% of the bill's funding. Calling it a "border bill" is more than just disingenuous.
  2. The bill was likely dead without Trump. 6 Dems, including Sanders (I) voted against it along with all of the anti-Trump wing of the Senate, save Romney. The bill needed 60 votes to pass. It wasn't going to get it.
  3. Calling the bill bipartisan is also at least a little disingenuous. The Bill was introduced by Chris Murphy (D) with support from Sinema (I) and Lankford (R), however the bill was never well received by the Republicans. Even Lankford withdrew support for the bill in the end.
  4. The bill's emergency provisions could only be activated if there were more than 5,000 encounters a day over a 7-day period (or more than 8,500 on a single day). This befuddles me. Why have this in there? We can't handle numbers at even half that rate. If we are already overwhelmed with years of asylum backlogs, why not enact the provision straight away? This bill was nothing but pollical theater.
Click to expand...
The bill was a step in the right direction. If we all wait until we get a perfect bill that makes everyone happen.... We are never gonna get any improvement. We have got to quit demanding that "Our Team" doesn't give up any of our wish lists.

Remind me of the last bill that Republicans actually got passed?
 
yoshi121374

yoshi121374

Heisman
Jan 26, 2006
12,867
21,862
113
yoshi121374 said:
The bill was a step in the right direction. If we all wait until we get a perfect bill that makes everyone happen.... We are never gonna get any improvement. We have got to quit demanding that "Our Team" doesn't give up any of our wish lists.

Remind me of the last bill that Republicans actually got passed?
Click to expand...

Also, how many of those Republicans would have voted for the bill if Trump wouldn't have gotten involved?
 
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