Bitterness....

[Spartanhusker]

....this whole 'Frank coming back' thing has me thinking...because this one story about his friend Bob I read in the LJ says BOB is bitter....

I thought Frank was an average coach, following a legend...I was not unhappy to see him go...

I was 'let go' of a coaching position 20 years ago...turned out to be the best thing ever to happen to me career wise...but I know there were people behind it...I had a hard time with THEM for a bit, but been over it a long time...I NEEDED to go

But how long and how deep is too long and too deep to let bitterness run?

Thoughts?

 

[JohnRossEwing]

....this whole 'Frank coming back' thing has me thinking...because this one story about his friend Bob says BOB is bitter....

I thought Frank was an average coach, following a legend...I was not unhappy to see him go...

I was 'let go' of a coaching position 20 years ago...turned out to be the best thing ever to happen to me career wise...but I know there were people behind it...I had a hard time with THEM for a bit, but been over it a long time...I NEEDED to go

But how long and how deep is too long and too deep to let bitterness run?

Thoughts?

Were those "people" parents? I hate parents! Ha

 

[Spartanhusker]

Were those "people" parents? I hate parents! Ha

Yes they were...private school...blah blah...

they did me a favor....but still....

 

[inWV]

Frank said he moved on from it pretty quickly. Maybe it's other people.

 

[Pennsyhusker_rivals246774]

My thoughts were and are mixed. I don’t think Solich was a top caliber coach and so, at the time, I was happy he was fired. It should have been done a year earlier, but I thought we could do better than Solich.

However, in retrospect it may have been a huge mistake to fire him and not hire someone from within the system like Gill to replace him. Not that Gill would have been any better than Solich, but at least he would have kept Osborne’s offensive system largely intact.

The sad fact is we have not been the same program since we completely abandoned Osborne’s system. We have lacked the unique identity that system gave us.

 

[Truehuskerfan]

I think all you have to do to prove that it was the right thing to fire him is look at his record at Ohio. Yes, he's got them to regular bowl games. For a school with almost no tradition, that's great and that's why he's still there. But in 14 years, he has not one single MAC Championship. In that period 8 other teams in the conference have won at least one championship. They join Kent State, Eastern Michigan and Ball State as the only teams in the conference to never win a championship. For that matter, he's only been to the championship game 4 times in those 14 years. His overall record is nice-again for a school with no tradition, but it's very Kirk Ferentz-esque(which is not a compliment). In fact, it's actually a little worse than Ferentz-he has a .601 winning percentage, while Solich has a .586 winning percentage at Ohio.. He has one 10 win season and never lost fewer than 4 games. I think Ferentz's record at Iowa is a good comparison of what things would have been like at Nebraska had Solich stayed longer(which again, is not a compliment)-you could count on maybe 7 or 8 wins a season and maybe a 9-10 win season once in awhile and a few championship game appearances, but that's about it. Yeah, some would say that isn't any worse than what we ended up with, but I don't want to be Iowa and be content with that and have to resort to bragging about our coach's long tenure. At least we tried to get better.

I think it's great that Solich came back and at some point(after he retires), I'm all for honoring him at a game. But the rehabilitation of him among some has gotten a little ridiculous. His record speaks for itself, and it doesn't speak very well for coaching a big-name college football program. He's a good coach, but not any more than that.

 

[TruHusker]

I think the original question was about the "bitterness" being too long or too deep. I would say that many who have been in public education or coaching know the feeling. You become an easy target, right or wrong. It is only human to NOT have some bitterness but the longer and deeper it goes, the more harm it causes onesself. It is easy to say let go, forgive and forget which is not easy but I have found that is best for ME. After all, THEY didn't do anything wrong right?

 

[dinglefritz]

I think all you have to do to prove that it was the right thing to fire him is look at his record at Ohio. Yes, he's got them to regular bowl games. For a school with almost no tradition, that's great and that's why he's still there. But in 14 years, he has not one single MAC Championship. In that period 8 other teams in the conference have won at least one championship. They join Kent State, Eastern Michigan and Ball State as the only teams in the conference to never win a championship. For that matter, he's only been to the championship game 4 times in those 14 years. His overall record is nice-again for a school with no tradition, but it's very Kirk Ferentz-esque(which is not a compliment). In fact, it's actually a little worse than Ferentz-he has a .601 winning percentage, while Solich has a .586 winning percentage at Ohio.. He has one 10 win season and never lost fewer than 4 games. I think Ferentz's record at Iowa is a good comparison of what things would have been like at Nebraska had Solich stayed longer(which again, is not a compliment)-you could count on maybe 7 or 8 wins a season and maybe a 9-10 win season once in awhile and a few championship game appearances, but that's about it. Yeah, some would say that isn't any worse than what we ended up with, but I don't want to be Iowa and be content with that and have to resort to bragging about our coach's long tenure. At least we tried to get better.

I think it's great that Solich came back and at some point(after he retires), I'm all for honoring him at a game. But the rehabilitation of him among some has gotten a little ridiculous. His record speaks for itself, and it doesn't speak very well for coaching a big-name college football program. He's a good coach, but not any more than that.

IMO, whomever the guy was that replaced Tom was, they were never going to be able to meet the fan and booster expectations. Frank was IMO doomed from the start. It's unfortunate it ended the way it did but as Frank says, he's been very lucky and has no ill feelings toward NU. I suspect he wouldn't be so gracious if asked about Pedey. Frank's back in Ohio where he grew up, has a good job and his stress level is WAY lower than it would have been continuing at NU.

 

[Baxter48_rivals204143]

IMO, whomever the guy was that replaced Tom was, they were never going to be able to meet the fan and booster expectations. Frank was IMO doomed from the start. It's unfortunate it ended the way it did but as Frank says, he's been very lucky and has no ill feelings toward NU. I suspect he wouldn't be so gracious if asked about Pedey. Frank's back in Ohio where he grew up, has a good job and his stress level is WAY lower than it would have been continuing at NU.

Agree with you, I will also add frank was hamstrung a little with keeping all the older coaches, it was a period of changing of the guard, frank was unwilling to except new ways of recruiting he figured NU would sell its self, when he did make coaching changes his hires were less than impressive. Barney as oc and even bo as DC the 3 games they lost in 03 were none competition blow outs to top tier teams at that time.

 

[CatColumbia]

IMO, whomever the guy was that replaced Tom was, they were never going to be able to meet the fan and booster expectations. Frank was IMO doomed from the start. It's unfortunate it ended the way it did but as Frank says, he's been very lucky and has no ill feelings toward NU. I suspect he wouldn't be so gracious if asked about Pedey. Frank's back in Ohio where he grew up, has a good job and his stress level is WAY lower than it would have been continuing at NU.

At the time of the Frank hire, I could not understand why we wouldn't conduct a national search (Mack Brown would have coached us!). In retrospect, it makes sense to keep someone who had been riding the ship for years to take over driving it. Frank had 4 years in which he HAD to win one championship to save his HC status. Nebraska still had the name that put the fear of God in teams. We all saw it that after Crouch left, the cup was bare and all of Osbourne recruits were gone. Football was changing at that time and Nebraska was not viewed as the alpha of the midwest any more (OU & Texas took that nod). Had Solich won a ship (let's say '99), I believe that this would have saved him for an additional 3-4 years but regardless, he was going to get let go eventually.

 

[dinglefritz]

Agree with you, I will also add frank was hamstrung a little with keeping all the older coaches, it was a period of changing of the guard, frank was unwilling to except new ways of recruiting he figured NU would sell its self, when he did make coaching changes his hires were less than impressive. Barney as oc and even bo as DC the 3 games they lost in 03 were none competition blow outs to top tier teams at that time.

I still wonder what would have happened IF Frank would have hired a competent big time recruiter DC without all the baggage Bo and Carl brought with them. They were part of Frank's problem.

 

[Wyldcard]

Look at it this way, Frank had a better record in his 1st 5 years than Devaney and Osborne. He also had a higher winning percentage than Both Bobby Bowden and the great Paul (Bear) Bryant during that span as well. The recruiting issue later on cannot be placed soley on Solich as at the end of 2002 saw the retirement of Uncle Milty and the firing of George Darlington which happened to be 2 of NU's top 2 recruiters which was absolutely huge but the staff was way up there in age and couldn't get after it like they they used to. In 2003 we once again had a extremely good recruiting class that got decimated by all of the decommitments due to Franks firing after the Colorado game. Enter Bill Callahan.

 

[tpmcg_rivals137159]

chris.brown!

 

[Sporty]

Actually Frank did not have a better winning pct than either Osborne or Devaney did in his first 5 years. He did have more victories than either in his first 5 years however. Frank was 49-16 Osborne was 46-13-1 and Devaney was 47-7.

 

[CatColumbia]

Look at it this way, Frank had a better record in his 1st 5 years than Devaney and Osborne. He also had a higher winning percentage than Both Bobby Bowden and the great Paul (Bear) Bryant during that span as well. The recruiting issue later on cannot be placed soley on Solich as at the end of 2002 saw the retirement of Uncle Milty and the firing of George Darlington which happened to be 2 of NU's top 2 recruiters which was absolutely huge but the staff was way up there in age and couldn't get after it like they they used to. In 2003 we once again had a extremely good recruiting class that got decimated by all of the decommitments due to Franks firing after the Colorado game. Enter Bill Callahan.

Who did we have in the 2003 class that decommtted due to us firing Solich? From what I remember, the class was ranked around the 40 range when Billy C took over.

 

[Truehuskerfan]

Who did we have in the 2003 class that decommtted due to us firing Solich? From what I remember, the class was ranked around the 40 range when Billy C took over.

I don't remember many. The only one I could think of off the top of my head was Allan Evridge. I know Terrence Nunn decommitted too, but he later came back. I'm sure there were some others, but I certainly don't recall a whole spate of high-profile decommitments.

 

[Wyldcard]

Who did we have in the 2003 class that decommtted due to us firing Solich? From what I remember, the class was ranked around the 40 range when Billy C took over.

Pelini had those 5 from Florida committed and all were 4 stars. Also had a 4 Star QB committed as well as a few highly ranked DB's and a RB and lost almost all of them when Solich was fired.

 

[Redscarlet]

Bottom line:

Solich 164 all time college wins
Ferentz 164 all time wins..

I’m proud of Frank what he has accomplished at Ohio U..

 

[dinglefritz]

Look at it this way, Frank had a better record in his 1st 5 years than Devaney and Osborne. He also had a higher winning percentage than Both Bobby Bowden and the great Paul (Bear) Bryant during that span as well. The recruiting issue later on cannot be placed soley on Solich as at the end of 2002 saw the retirement of Uncle Milty and the firing of George Darlington which happened to be 2 of NU's top 2 recruiters which was absolutely huge but the staff was way up there in age and couldn't get after it like they they used to. In 2003 we once again had a extremely good recruiting class that got decimated by all of the decommitments due to Franks firing after the Colorado game. Enter Bill Callahan.

That is why I posted I wonder what would have happened IF FRANK HAD HIRED A BIG TIME RECRUITER FOR HIS DC instead of Bo. Bo didn't want to do it and recruiting was going nowhere when Frank was fired. It drove our former recruiting coordinator (Pedey) nuts to watch it.

 

[Truehuskerfan]

Pelini had those 5 from Florida committed and all were 4 stars. Also had a 4 Star QB committed as well as a few highly ranked DB's and a RB and lost almost all of them when Solich was fired.

Allan Evridge was the only QB in the class I remember and he was a 3* player when he was committed to Nebraska-they bumped him up to 4* when he committed to Kansas State. One of those Florida players came anyway-Danny Muy, who was Bill Callahan's first commit. I'd like to hear names for these other players you mention, because I don't remember them. Maybe they weren't committed yet, but probably would have committed? I remember Sirdarean Adams, a 4* player who was probably going to commit, but hadn't committed yet and ended up at Michigan State.

 

[dinglefritz]

Allan Evridge was the only QB in the class I remember and he was a 3* player when he was committed to Nebraska-they bumped him up to 4* when he committed to Kansas State. One of those Florida players came anyway-Danny Muy, who was Bill Callahan's first commit. I'd like to hear names for these other players you mention, because I don't remember them. Maybe they weren't committed yet, but probably would have committed? I remember Sirdarean Adams, a 4* player who was probably going to commit, but hadn't committed yet and ended up at Michigan State.

the problem was that they weren't committing and Frank was probably not the most aggressive recruiter out there. We probably would have gotten some guys based on NU's rep but Frank didn't have the gravitas when he walked in to a room like Tom did.

 

[CatColumbia]

Pelini had those 5 from Florida committed and all were 4 stars. Also had a 4 Star QB committed as well as a few highly ranked DB's and a RB and lost almost all of them when Solich was fired.

None of those guys would have came anyways. Those Florida guys you are mentioning are the Tallahassee 5 Gang. None of them ever amounted to anything and we only ended up with one of them, Danny Muy, who was as soft as Charmin and Mike Riley.

For those that weren’t around back then, the Tallahassee 5 hype was equivalent to Bookie or Calibraska.

 

[Sodakred]

....this whole 'Frank coming back' thing has me thinking...because this one story about his friend Bob I read in the LJ says BOB is bitter....

I thought Frank was an average coach, following a legend...I was not unhappy to see him go...

I was 'let go' of a coaching position 20 years ago...turned out to be the best thing ever to happen to me career wise...but I know there were people behind it...I had a hard time with THEM for a bit, but been over it a long time...I NEEDED to go

But how long and how deep is too long and too deep to let bitterness run?

Thoughts?

The appropriate time to wallow in misery and the appropriate amount of bitterness are probably impossible to quantify. I think a more appropriate question is: Are you emotionally capable of honest self-reflection and self-criticism? If the answer is yes, then you can handle routine criticism as well as move on from the “big ones” - getting fired and/or getting kicked to the curb by a former spouse. You are lucky that you can answer that question with a solid yes.

 

[Huskerwisdom]

A whole lot went wrong for Solich, and not all of it was his fault

1. Eppley started to mail it in, and his experimenting also had a rash of athletic pubalgia injuries that really hurt us in those years, but overall other teams had caught up with our S&C
2. Colorado stomped on Bohl's defensive scheme that had been very good up until then (their OL was darned good and there were a lot of PED rumors also)
3. Crawford went to play baseball (smart move as it turned out), but he would have been a great QB for us
4. The assistants got stale and started to slide - Frank needed to make moves earlier than he did, both for recruiting and for scheme
5. Frank's feel for the offense wasn't what Osborne's was

Even following Osborne it takes a special coach to really win at NU, and a lot of coaches who are "names" that people love would fail at Nebraska due to our special recruiting challenges. As we found out, Frank may have "failed", but the guys after him showed that we didn't understand what "failure" really was

Frost's the right guy for us though

 

[Spartanhusker]

Good assessment, I think....

 

[dand84]

Pardon my ignorance, but what is the whole frank coming back thing?

 

[Baxter48_rivals204143]

A whole lot went wrong for Solich, and not all of it was his fault

1. Eppley started to mail it in, and his experimenting also had a rash of athletic pubalgia injuries that really hurt us in those years, but overall other teams had caught up with our S&C
2. Colorado stomped on Bohl's defensive scheme that had been very good up until then (their OL was darned good and there were a lot of PED rumors also)
3. Crawford went to play baseball (smart move as it turned out), but he would have been a great QB for us
4. The assistants got stale and started to slide - Frank needed to make moves earlier than he did, both for recruiting and for scheme
5. Frank's feel for the offense wasn't what Osborne's was

Even following Osborne it takes a special coach to really win at NU, and a lot of coaches who are "names" that people love would fail at Nebraska due to our special recruiting challenges. As we found out, Frank may have "failed", but the guys after him showed that we didn't understand what "failure" really was

Frost's the right guy for us though

It also appeared players were I don't want to say forced but it seemed to notrehab from injuries as much and ill use Tracy wistrom and Bobby Newcombe those two were never the same after there injuries, plus Eric crouch covered up a lot of issues with his talent and I'll admit I'm not a fan I always thought Bobby Newcombe was the better all around quarterback

 

[WHCSC]

Pardon my ignorance, but what is the whole frank coming back thing?

He just got the Tom Osborne Legacy Award at the Outland Trophy shindig

 

[Baxter48_rivals204143]

Pardon my ignorance, but what is the whole frank coming back thing?

You are correct, and I'm happy he came back and was given the award, but my issue is some people are making him out to be more that what he actually was he was not the new Knute Rockne he was a decent coach but not a great one

 

[inWV]

I think the problem was that Frank did not get an opportunity to fail, certainly not as we understand failing at NU in 2019. I think the same can be said for Pelini. Frost inherited a program that had been largely hollowed out. In a way, that is an advantage for him. Next year an 8-4 season will be treated like a substantial accomplishment, as opposed to being viewed as a disappointment like it would have been just a few short years ago.