Biggest problem facing MSU (and Ole Miss)

[Maroonthirteen]

Somebody should have forced the issue on that Interstate 69 corridor. That project is at least 15 years behind schedule. And it was supposed to create good paying jobs in the "Delta". .

Only jobs that laying i69 over highway 61 will create is a few more Flying Js and Pilots and maybe a dive hotel or two. But.... I guess that is a job for the area. However the highway is totally pointless other than relieving a little traffic from i40 (Mem to LR) and creating urban sprawl in desoto county. I30 extending up to Jonesboro and then to I55 would make more sense. But anyway.....my .02

 

[5049]

Embrace the lottery would be a decent start. It's such a benign thing that generates oodles of cash. Maybe the casino lobbyist would push back against it, but I think it's a no brainer.

It generates money from the existing population. What does that help? We need to bring in money from other states.

 

[BlueRidgeMtns]

Sorry, I guess I am part of the exiting population since I'm now in VA. Places like Madison are pretty great with good schools and neighborhoods. However, places like my hometown of Yazoo are getting much worse.

 

[5049]

Only jobs that laying i69 over highway 61 will create is a few more Flying Js and Pilots and maybe a dive hotel or two. But.... I guess that is a job for the area. However the highway is totally pointless other than relieving a little traffic from i40 (Mem to LR) and creating urban sprawl in desoto county. I30 extending up to Jonesboro and then to I55 would make more sense. But anyway.....my .02

I think the whole I-69 idea may be dead anyway. The only parts actually being built is the 269 loop around Memphis, which is viable.

 

[Shmuley]

My nephew, who attends an out-of-state SEC university, tells me that "most" of his HS graduating class (small Mississippi HS) is planning to settle in a state other than Mississippi. It's a real problem. The brain drain is significant.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Embrace the lottery would be a decent start. It's such a benign thing that generates oodles of cash. Maybe the casino lobbyist would push back against it, but I think it's a no brainer.

You would have to weigh the net income from the lottery, less lining politicians pockets, against the gas tax collected from people driving to LA weekly to buy tickets. I recall how much the casinos were going to help with college costs. I remember all the talk of how well the lottery worked in subsidizing GA college costs and I recall how no casino money actually made to higher education.

 

[Go Budaw]

I agree with a lot of what you said, but I’d have to disagree that Hattiesburg and the Coast are in decline. Hattiesburg and Gulfport/Biloxi have had decent growth (4-5%) since 2010. Only other parts of the state that are doing better than that are DeSoto County (like you said, more Memphis than Mississippi) and Oxford (not really a metro/urban area).

The only thing that was holding Hattiesburg back in recent years was poor leadership, and now that problem is fixed. The new mayor is striving to have a city like Chattanooga, Huntsville, Mobile, etc instead of Meridian or Tupelo.

I’ll admit my info on Hattiesburg may be a bit dated. Regarding the coast, I never said it was on decline, just that its growth has held the same status quo for two decades (not losing population, but not necessarily booming either).

The overall point is that there is only one Mississippi-centric urban MSA in the entire state, which is far behind pretty much every surrounding state in the Southeast. Even under the best circumstances, the Hattiesburg / Meridian / Tupelo / Gulf Coast MSA’s will never, ever, ever grow to the scale of Jackson, Little Rock, Baton Rouge, Huntsville, etc. The existing infrastructures of those cities (along with numerous economic disadvantages already mentioned) simply will not allow it to happen. It is a problem that it is far too late in the game to change, unfortunately.

 

[TheStateUofMS]

I'm in the young educated statistic who left in 2014.

I can't see Mississippi ever having a major financial industry presence other than insurance. I'm also in a state with no state income tax.

A lot of this is a result of policy decisions. Whether you agree with the religious freedom law or not, the reality is it's a business killer. No major corporations outside of manufacturing will be coming to MS because of that law. The labor pool continues to shrink for skilled jobs. I would think wages could go up in MS because of an impending labor shortage as the population gets older.

Mississippi is becoming Japan.

 

[dudehead]

I'm in the young educated statistic who left in 2014.

I can't see Mississippi ever having a major financial industry presence other than insurance. I'm also in a state with no state income tax.

A lot of this is a result of policy decisions. Whether you agree with the religious freedom law or not, the reality is it's a business killer. No major corporations outside of manufacturing will be coming to MS because of that law. The labor pool continues to shrink for skilled jobs. I would think wages could go up in MS because of an impending labor shortage as the population gets older.

Mississippi is becoming Japan.

Yep, people do not realize how harmful HB 1523 (and the environment from which it was spawned) has been. I know of professionals, even an entire company, that left MS because of this legislative bigotry; not to mention how difficult it is to recruit young professionals to MS.

People and businesses do not want to invest their lives and money in the environment that is MS.

 

[5049]

Seems most in this thread have given up. More than anything, I was attempting to gauge the level of concern for this. Doesn't seem to be much, yet we are all totally obsessed with MSU. Doesn't make much sense, I guess we all just expect MS to always be there?

A university cannot thrive off out of state enrollment/alumni who enter upon enrollment and exit upon graduation, no matter what Ole Miss people have said.

I still see Clemson and the state of SC as the blueprint. Recruited out of state, and kept them there. Greenville and Columbia aren't great, but at least they are viable places to live, but the key attractor was the Coast. It will be the same for Mississippi too, if we are ever to break out of this funk.

 

[patdog]

Whether you agree with the religious freedom law or not, the reality is it's a business killer.

There's nothing Mississippians love to do more than shoot our own selves in the foot.

 

[TheStateUofMS]

My 7yr old son is Miss St fan and we live in Florida. I need to get him on campus next year. I'm not gonna force him to go to Miss St, but I moved away from MS when I was 14 and moved back for college, worked for 2 years after graduation and then moved away from MS. My dad never put pressure on me, but let's put it this way, the only school I submitted an application to was Miss St and that's while living in NC. I never had a doubt where I wanted to go.

 

[aTotal360]

I said it's a start. I didn't say it was the answer. As for the lottery, you can do like most states and leverage that money to improve your education system. I'd consider returning to MS if I had more confidence in the schools in the Golden Triangle. I bet there are a lot of young families that think the same. I picked my last 2 houses based on the school districts they were in. Its a huge part of the puzzle when you are putting down your roots.

 

[thatsbaseball]

If the lottery was started today, in 5 years you wouldn't be able to positively identify one damn thing it had done for the state. Oh the money would have come into the state treasury in bushel baskets but you wouldn't be able to track how it was squandered errrr spent.

 

[mount lefroy]

http://www.clarionledger.com/story/...sus-finds-state-again-loses-people/975187001/

Need to find a way to curb that, and quickly. Now, the census bureau is notorious for under representing rural areas (they assume they are all declining in population), but that said, at minimum we can infer there is a problem. State is not growing.

Most people probably don’t care. But they should, especially if you care about the long term viability of MSU.

Of course the reason for the statistical decline could have something to do with the statistical increase the preceded it.

Also, has it occurred to anyone that the college graduates that are leaving are coming from out of state in the first place?

Also an example like my wife and myself who grew up in MS, graduated, left, and then came back years later, that the statistical sample hasn’t been taken from a wide enough range ? Matter of fact, we brought back two kids who will attend MSU and possibly follow the same path or maybe stay. Either way there are many examples of family career patterns that explain the decline outside of economic decline or failure.

Also, the article said Arkansas used to be 20,000 ahead in population and now are 25000 ahead. During this time, ms dropped by 8000. As I’m sure you can deduce, that means Arkansas dropped by 3000 as well, so the issue could be regional.

I think the worst problem is that people who are allowed to write articles and quote idiots that work for OLe Miss don’t logically interpret all of the reasons for increase or decline.

 

[aTotal360]

If that's the case, then Mississippi is 17ed and there isn't you can do until the people running the state are ran out. I'd advise leaving too.

 

[5049]

Of course the reason for the statistical decline could have something to do with the statistical increase the preceded it.

Also, has it occurred to anyone that the college graduates that are leaving are coming from out of state in the first place?

Also an example like my wife and myself who grew up in MS, graduated, left, and then came back years later, that the statistical sample hasn’t been taken from a wide enough range ? Matter of fact, we brought back two kids who will attend MSU and possibly follow the same path or maybe stay. Either way there are many examples of family career patterns that explain the decline outside of economic decline or failure.

Also, the article said Arkansas used to be 20,000 ahead in population and now are 25000 ahead. During this time, ms dropped by 8000. As I’m sure you can deduce, that means Arkansas dropped by 3000 as well, so the issue could be regional.

I think the worst problem is that people who are allowed to write articles and quote idiots that work for OLe Miss don’t logically interpret all of the reasons for increase or decline.

Agree with all, and I cannot deny the propaganda side of it as well. They want to shock people into thinking doomsday is coming (which sort of worked on me). Even still, I have an interest in this sort of thing. I think we all want the state to do well.

 

[5049]

If that's the case, then Mississippi is 17ed and there isn't you can do until the people running the state are ran out. I'd advise leaving too.

No, that's just all government. Mississippi is actually ahead of the curve when it comes to that.

Don't dismiss his point simply because he didn't agree with you.

 

[thatsbaseball]

Have any of yall ever participated in taking a census ? I volunteered ONE time many years ago and it was an eye opener. You would be shocked at the push-back to being counted. Not saying this is unique to Mississippi at all but it was a trip. A lot of black folks wanted nothing to do with it in any way, shape or form and would flat refuse. I have no idea if it's the same today.

 

[aTotal360]

I'm not dismissing it all. I'm being dead serious.

 

[8dog]

People are buying lottery tickets in other states. Lets keep it here

 

[Jeffreauxdawg]

My nephew, who attends an out-of-state SEC university, tells me that "most" of his HS graduating class (small Mississippi HS) is planning to settle in a state other than Mississippi. It's a real problem. The brain drain is significant.

Very true. I left grad school at State early for a job in Texas 12 years ago and have never looked back. Its not because I don't miss the people, pace of life, etc... It is just about opportunity. I now own a construction business and I just looked at residential building permits in DFW vs the entire state of Mississippi. There is roughly 10 times more new residential construction in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, as there is in the entire state of Mississippi. I might come back to retire one day, but unless someone finds the worlds largest oil supply under the delta, I am going plant the new family tree right here in Texas.

 

[thatsbaseball]

Thank you. It is sadly the rule rather than the exception in government from top to bottom today.

 

[A Dog.sixpack]

http://www.clarionledger.com/story/...sus-finds-state-again-loses-people/975187001/

Need to find a way to curb that, and quickly. Now, the census bureau is notorious for under representing rural areas (they assume they are all declining in population), but that said, at minimum we can infer there is a problem. State is not growing.

Most people probably don’t care. But they should, especially if you care about the long term viability of MSU.

1. You can't blame people for not wanting to live in ms. There is no decent metro area and the beaches are sub par. No reason to live there unless you're a farmer or from the state. Yes cost of living is good but there's not enough jobs.

2. Desoto county could be a good thing for mississippi, and technically is,but Memphis is having the same issues stated in this article. So you can't bank on Desoto carrying the state. Not to mention Desoto counties new sprawl is actually counter productive to Memphis.

3. The tax break for 5 years to keep young professionals in ms is ridiclous. There are not enough jobs to keep them. Ms needs a Large urban metro with a growing job market to attract and employ these degrees then I would say it could work, but there's not. They need to focus on grants or tax breaks for entrepreneurs. Then you can keep these degreed individuals here by starting their own business. But talking them into staying with tax breaks when they can't find a job isn't

4. Governor and mayor of Jackson need to go all in on selling "move to Ms" and really encourage local talent to stay and start their own businesses. There are surely a handful of corporations who care more about saving dollar bills than quality of life for their employees out there. Need to put together a 5/10/15/20 year plan to get companies moving here while spending tax dollars on making Jackson a more desirable place to live. Not sure how proactive ms is with attracting companies but a team needs to he formed with this goal in mind. Sell sell sell the state to companies and get the people and money here.

5. Education... ms schools I hear are one of the worst in the country.

6. Re-branding your state. Ms is known as a backwoods, truck driving, bible thumping, dip spitting, negro hating, uneducated cotton field with dirty beaches and some casinos. This needs to change so the .gov needs to get the pr machine spinning. I know that was harsh but it's the truth.

When it's all said and done you need a young, hungry, visionary governor who is willing to lay all this out on the table and start rolling out plans to get ms more towards the middle of the pack in all the major categories and you've got to have one metro area that's a desirable place to live for millennial hipsters. Sorry it's just the way it is. Then begin the re branding of ms.

Oh, and I'm not sure this hurts msu and ole miss. The population decline isn't so drastic the schools will disappear. Msu needs to focus on attracting as much of the ms market as possible and continue to make campus and Starkville clean and fun. Which is happening. Then keep going with athletics and it should be easy to keep out of staters. Thats the only way to get the school to grow. Ms doesn't have the pop to make msu massive. Not to mention there are too many universities for the pop right now anyway. I think when people start to figure out college is a sham and the government stops paying for these outrageous tuitions you will see the demise of the American university anyway. Then msu can attract students from some of the other schools that go under. This will probably happen in the next 10 to 20 years. I don't believe ole miss and msu will be hurt due to athletics. Athletics will keep your power 5 schools in business. So we need to continue to attract out of state students and I don't think this article will hurt msu in anyway. It is hurting your state though.

 

[5049]

People are buying lottery tickets in other states. Lets keep it here

Fair point

 

[5049]

1. You can't blame people for not wanting to live in ms. There is no decent metro area and the beaches are sub par. No reason to live there unless you're a farmer or from the state. Yes cost of living is good but there's not enough jobs.

2. Desoto county could be a good thing for mississippi, and technically is,but Memphis is having the same issues stated in this article. So you can't bank on Desoto carrying the state. Not to mention Desoto counties new sprawl is actually counter productive to Memphis.

3. The tax break for 5 years to keep young professionals in ms is ridiclous. There are not enough jobs to keep them. Ms needs a Large urban metro with a growing job market to attract and employ these degrees then I would say it could work, but there's not. They need to focus on grants or tax breaks for entrepreneurs. Then you can keep these degreed individuals here by starting their own business. But talking them into staying with tax breaks when they can't find a job isn't the solution.

4. In the long run though ms is screwed imo. Governor and mayor of Jackson need to go all in on selling "move to Ms" and really encourage local talent to stay and start their own businesses. There are surely a handful of corporations who care more about saving dollar bills than quality of life for their employees out there. Need to put together a 5/10/15/20 year plan to get companies moving here while spending tax dollars on making Jackson a more desirable place to live. Not sure how proactive ms is with attracting companies but a team needs to he formed with this goal in mind. Sell sell sell the state to companies and get the people and money here.

5. Education... ms schools I hear are one of the worst in the country.

6. Re-branding your state. Ms is known as a backwoods, truck driving, bible thumping, dip spitting, negro hating, uneducated cotton field with dirty beaches and some casinos. This needs to change so the .gov needs to get the pr machine spinning. I know that was harsh but it's the truth.

When it's all said and done you need a young, hungry, visionary governor who is willing to lay all this out on the table and start rolling out plans to get ms more towards the middle of the pack in all the major categories and you've got to have one metro area that's a desirable place to live for millennial hipsters. Sorry it's just the way it is. Then begin the re branding of ms.

Oh, and I'm not sure this hurts msu and ole miss. The population decline isn't so drastic the schools will disappear. Msu needs to focus on attracting as much of the ms market as possible and continue to make campus and Starkville clean and fun. Which is happening. Then keep going with athletics and it should be easy to keep out of staters. Thats the only way to get the school to grow. Ms doesn't have the pop to make msu massive. Not to mention there are too many universities for the pop right now anyway. I think when people start to figure out college is a sham and the government stops paying for these outrageous tuitions you will see the demise of the American university anyway. Then msu can attract students from some of the other schools that go under. This will probably happen in the next 10 to 20 years. I don't believe ole miss and msu will be hurt due to athletics. Athletics will keep your power 5 schools in business. So we need to continue to attract out of state students and I don't think this article will hurt msu in anyway. It is hurting your state though.

All fair points, especially #3. I obviously don't agree with all of them, but I respect the viewpoint. I do think you underestimate the Governor and Jackson Mayor.

Typically 20% of folks are going to be entrepreneurs, and the rest will be workers. So yeah, no matter how you shake it, most people want to work for someone else so you either have to move in business of some sort, or innovate.

 

[8dog]

The federal census at least at one time asked how many people were in your household with the quakifier “do not count college students living away in this number”. So i didnt count myself bc i was a college student but neither did my parents And i feel like we both followed the instructions

 

[Jeffreauxdawg]

Seems most in this thread have given up. More than anything, I was attempting to gauge the level of concern for this. Doesn't seem to be much, yet we are all totally obsessed with MSU. Doesn't make much sense, I guess we all just expect MS to always be there?

If your looking for solutions to the woes of the State of Mississippi, it is simply about economics. Here is my 2 cents.

To attract new people, you must first attract jobs. To attract new jobs you need three things:

1. An attractive environment for corporations to succeed. (Fiscal, political, etc.)
2. An attractive environment to recruit talent from around the world. (Talent = Engineers, programmers, whatever... The 10-20% of people that are the brain power of a company.)
3. An attractive labor pool to fill out the remaining jobs. (Manufacturing labor, accountants, call center employees, etc.)

So, with this in mind... its easy to see why Mississippi is struggling. If I were elected to a 30 year term as the supreme ruler of Mississippi, I would start by picking an industry I want the state to dominate. Something with runway... Let's use batteries. As more and more of our world is dominated by mobile devices, hybrid cars, and solar panels, there is greater need for better ways to store the energy.

1. I would set fiscal, social, and political policies that help encourage any corporation interested in the R&D, manufacture, or sale of batteries to look at Mississippi first, second, and last for their location. This is why I would need a 30 year term, because to attract cutting edge companies we are going to have to change some of the social aspects that would likely get you voted out real quick.

2. Next I would talk to these companies about the talent they want to attract. What can we do to make a region of Mississippi enticing to these people. This would probably require some major infrastructure spending, etc. So we make the entire coast of Mississippi bicycle friendly... whatever.

3. Finally I am going to have to spend 10 years educating the least educated people in the US. But, I don't have to teach them everything, just about batteries. What today is an 8th grade dropout, will become an battery technician with high level knowledge of the chemistry involved in building a lithium battery.

Ultimately, this is all a pipe dream. It won't happen. It most likely can't. Dems will get elected by pandering to their base with freebies, and Repubs will continue pandering to their base with social conservatism.

 

[bruiser.sixpack]

It generates money from the existing population. What does that help? We need to bring in money from other states.

And just like the Casinos who were supposed to supply good paying jobs, pay for better infrastructure, and improve funding for education, it is more like a huge Tax on the Poor.

I actually would prefer the Lottery to the Casinos, because I don't think people would gamble away their homes and lives throwing a few dollars toward a lottery ticket.

 

[A Dog.sixpack]

All fair points, especially #3. I obviously don't agree with all of them, but I respect the viewpoint. I do think you underestimate the Governor and Jackson Mayor.

Typically 20% of folks are going to be entrepreneurs, and the rest will be workers. So yeah, no matter how you shake it, most people want to work for someone else so you either have to move in business of some sort, or innovate.

I wasn't knocking your governor or mayor. I don't know them whatsoever. I was just saying those two positions will have to do those things to change the atmosphere.

 

[A Dog.sixpack]

The casinos are not good paying jobs in the sense of employing mathematicians, engineers, tech savvy folks, and other degrees. While they do pay well mississippi needs to produce a market to attract these kinds of positions otherwise you will continue to have "brain drain"

 

[5049]

The casinos are not good paying jobs in the sense of employing mathematicians, engineers, tech savvy folks, and other degrees. While they do pay well mississippi needs to produce a market to attract these kinds of positions otherwise you will continue to have "brain drain"

I think most native Mississippians who left, eventually want to come back. They all have the urge. Sometimes I think some type of service economy that caters to people who want to come back here in their spare time would be a good idea. Golf courses, hunting/fishing, sports, history, blues, food....those type things. I don't know how you pull it all together.

 

[Willow Grove Dawg]

My employer is involved with a piece of property in Indianapolis that has been in a holding pattern for 10 plus years due to the I-69 boondoggle.

 

[drt7891]

Exactly.

Have you been to the Tupelo area in the last 10 years? There's so many new businesses around this area that I can't keep up with them. Not sure what decline you're referring to. I moved here 11 years ago and I think the population has basically held steady - but its a totally different city than what I moved to.

Meridian and Tupelo are polar opposites and don’t belong in the same sentence. Tupelo is probably the only area in the state without a major university presence that has been successful and recruiting and keeping industry and it has shown in its downtown and retail presence. I don’t have many coastal connections, so I can’t speak to what’s going on down there, to be honest.

And let’s be fair... Tupelo hasn’t had near the economic impact of its tax base flocking to the county that Meridian and Jackson have had. It also doesnt have the local strongholds stomping out new business that those areas have, either. The area as a whole hasn’t grown as much as it needs to, but I think it is the exception in Mississippi, to be frank.

Back to the OP, though, most rural areas in MS has been devastated by brain drain. We have to figure out a way to address this as a state. Focusing on economic development is a start, but the people have to demand it. We have to start giving 18-35 year olds a reason to stick around (particularly those with 4+ year degrees).

 

[13thEagle]

Hattiesburg and the Coast are not declining. As a matter of fact, that will likely be where the majority of good things will happen for the state going forward. There, and like you said, Memphis. Possibly the 78 corridor.

If not for Katrina, the Coast would be booming.

Strong rumors that camp shelby is about to see a big influx, larger than in the past.

 

[Wizard of bulldogery]

Mississippi will always be my home... but i consider myself a Memphian now. I didn't grow up near it but I took a job out of college and have been here for 7 years now. I love it. There is plenty of suburbia here but even many of the suburbanites embrace the city. I never got that feel anytime i talk with someone from the jackson area. They are from flowood or madison or brandon or pearl and if someone says oh so in jackson. Immediate response is oh god no. Downtown Memphis is thriving contrary to what the other person said. Raymond James employees a bunch of people, Autozone HQ, First TN Bank HQ, Servicemaster HQ (once completed in next few months) major law offices. There are 20 foodtrucks every thursday at the local park downtown and you have to wait 20 minutes even during bad weather. Do people get shot here? Yes. Do people in Northeast MS cook meth and shoot each other? yes. Memphis is poaching people that might have moved to jackson 20 years ago left and right.

 

[o_fredgarvin]

I said it's a start. I didn't say it was the answer. As for the lottery, you can do like most states and leverage that money to improve your education system. I'd consider returning to MS if I had more confidence in the schools in the Golden Triangle. I bet there are a lot of young families that think the same. I picked my last 2 houses based on the school districts they were in. Its a huge part of the puzzle when you are putting down your roots.

All the lottery will do is inflate the price of tuition at the state universities. See TN and GA for examples.

 

[johnson86-1]

I agree with a lot of what you said, but I’d have to disagree that Hattiesburg and the Coast are in decline. Hattiesburg and Gulfport/Biloxi have had decent growth (4-5%) since 2010. Only other parts of the state that are doing better than that are DeSoto County (like you said, more Memphis than Mississippi) and Oxford (not really a metro/urban area).

The only thing that was holding Hattiesburg back in recent years was poor leadership, and now that problem is fixed. The new mayor is striving to have a city like Chattanooga, Huntsville, Mobile, etc instead of Meridian or Tupelo.

Chattanooga is beyond what Hattiesburg can be unfortunately, or at least it can't be made that way just by having good leadership or policy. You'd need an amazing company to be started there and to grow there. Something like TVA as far as number of employees and types of employees. Hattiesburg has basically been a smaller version of Mobile. Ok despite terrible leadership and race problems.

I think Toby will be a major improvement, and will make things better, but Hattiesburg is probably capped out at being a nice little town to live in and doesn't have the ability to be an economic driver for the state.

 

[johnson86-1]

Are you saying you're envious of Nola, Memphis, Bham and Mobile ? Good gawd man come in off the ledge .

They are all, with the exception of Mobile, better economic drivers for their state than Jackson. New Orleans has major problems also, but it is still attracting a young professional crowd more successfully than Jackson.

 

[johnson86-1]

I said it's a start. I didn't say it was the answer. As for the lottery, you can do like most states and leverage that money to improve your education system. I'd consider returning to MS if I had more confidence in the schools in the Golden Triangle. I bet there are a lot of young families that think the same. I picked my last 2 houses based on the school districts they were in. Its a huge part of the puzzle when you are putting down your roots.

You can't use lottery money to do anything other than fund stuff you don't have to fund (like college scholarships). If you try to use lottery money for elementary or secondary (or even just general high education expenses), you just shift money around. That's what happened to MS with the casinos. What would have been sales tax revenue ended up being casino money for the state. They put the "casino money" into the schools and but then had to decrease funding from the general fund that otherwise would have gone to education because of the hole left from the diverted sales tax revenue.