Our defenses have definitely been driven by having an anchor center.
Big Man
- Thread starter MCKnight
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Absolutely. You have to look past rankings. Pike knew exactly what this years team needed. For what we needed, Pike crushed it.
All 3 of those players were TOP targets of Pike.
Each of those players is tough and gritty. Tough and gritty are not a factor in the rankings you are looking at. But it’s something really important that we lacked last year, IMO. In fact, I think you posted that during the season. And toughness is something that made us a tournament team a few years ago. Also, each of those players were relied upon HEAVILY by their team and they produced under that pressure. You are going to be surprised by Martini, Acuff and Derkack.
I am curious. Do you listen to Richie and Mike’s podcast?
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“Crushing it” might be a bit strong but i think it certainly is VERY SOLID. I have no complaints with our transfer haul so far
I expanded on my reasoning. Take a look at my post above.
Crushed it, VERY SOLID. Tomato, potato. Lolol.
All good!!!
Huh? What are you talking about? I’m saying we would be getting the version of MJ that had ALREADY completed 2018-19. He’d have that year on his resume. We’d be getting 2019-20 MJ in that case which would be great.
For sure. And he’d cost a lot, but not over a million because he’s 6-7.
Fair enough, I interpreted your comment as matching the 2018-2019 season version. Not sure I agree though, think we'll be going for a guy with at least two years of on court college experience. Need a veteran at the position.
We’re in the off-season right now. I was talking about finding someone matching the off season resume following that season. MJ was a BIG coming off a season where he played about 18 mpg, grabbing likely 5 or so rebounds. Modest scoring. That profile (in the case of MJ translated into a productive 2019-20 campaign). We certainly wouldn’t want a 4th or 5th year player with that profile because it would likely mean they weren’t good enough to beat others out year over year. But a rising sophomore or junior who played 17-18 productive minutes wouldn’t be an “Epic failure” of a pick up.
I don't care what their resume is if we get MJs 2019-2020 production out of them.
Of course not. The point I’m making is that MJ was productive in 2018-19 despite not yet having what would’ve been a million dollar profile if NIL was around. A reasonably high percentage of guys who produced well in their first year in a back up role take the next step the following season as a starter. The key is we probably don’t want a career back up BIg (3-4 seasons worth) or a kid like Agee who produced on a team that was blown out every game (because it’s hard to separate garbage time stats from real data).
Richie and Mike’s podcast and Aaron Breitman’s podcast offer good and specific information about these transfers to R Hoops. Much more helpful than a transfer class rating, imo, because Pike is/was looking for specific attributes in these players (toughness, leadership etc).
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Yeah, I hear what you are saying, just don't think Pike is going to take a chance going the was productive in limited minutes and hopefully takes a step route. At the end of the day it will be a guy like Charles Thompson (not him, think he's out of eligibility) from Towson that put up 9 and 8 with good defense in legit minutes in a smaller conference for a couple years.
Yes, I said that at one point, didn’t I? We’ll be scouting the undersized 240+ pounders who are 6-6 / 6-7ish that put up high rebound numbers on low majors. Along with guys who played PF on major conference teams with good rebounding production (like the Miami kid). It’s either going to be that or a well performing one year back up like the version of MJ I described. Whatever we can ultimately most afford. All will be looked at. We simply do not have the money for a traditional proven starting center 6.8+. I don’t know what our budget is but I doubt we’re close. Cliff didn’t even entertain staying.
I'm going to say what Richie has been telling me and others (in not such a nice way) to do. Patience. The prices of centers are going to go down. We aren't going to let a couple of hundred thousand dollars stand in the way for someone who is not going to be the best offensive center, but can hit a 12 footer and a layup, pass and defend.
I hope your right but I would think the prices are going to go up per economics 101 - law of supply and demand. As less centers are available the bidding war concept is going to kick in for teams desperate to fill the position. That’s what I expect anyway.
Supply and demand assumes it's the same product that is available in decreasing quantities. These bigs are not all the same and some asked for more than teams were willing to pay and now have adjusted their asking price.
Yes, but there’s the demand side. How many teams are left with super deep pockets?
This.
Do I think Lathan will be good as a freshman? Yes. But no one knows. We all found out the hard way with Gavin last year that not everyone is ready to play well as a freshman. I have much more confidence in Lathan on the offensive end. How will he be as a rim protector?
Ogbole has physical tools and a full off season after missing last year's with an injury. That is huge for his development. He COULD make a jump and be able to contribute more but we just don't know
We need to mitigate risk at the 5 but bringing in someone who we know can play. Next year is just too important to rely on a freshman and developemntal raw project. Mitigate risk.
We should be able to find a solid big that can play 20 min a night without hurting us. Protect the rim. Rebound. Dunks and put backs. Get that and I'm happy. We don't need a stud. We don't need someone who demands the ball and needs shots. If Lathan is awesome a freshman, amazing. If Ogbole makes a huge jump, amazing. We need a reliable option in case either or both don't happen though
Just today Seton Hall got a commitment from Gus Yalden from Wisconsin who was called Gus the Bus or Gus the tank who we wanted but he chose Wisconsin over us and didn’t play at all this past season and I think he has four years of eligibility. Apparently he has lost forty pounds and is now 240 and 6’8” or 6’9” tall.
Baby Jokic comes with some baggage. Could be very good if he gets his act together.
We thought we were the shiny new thing and talented kids would want to come play here because we’re cool. Turns out money is still the most shiny thing.
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Agreed regarding Ogbole, he’s not very good and is way down the bench. Get a big to pair with Somerville and that’s your two big men. Obgole plays limited minutes on occasion due to foul trouble, injury, etc.. He won’t see significant minutes in the regular rotation.
Bottom line the elite basketball programs will dominate recruiting.The NIL is just the latest excuse for mid level programs not being able to compete.Bailey and Harper were unique situations that will be difficult to repeat at Rutgers.
He didn’t “dominate” but his presence in the paint was important on D. Compensating for that will be harder than some think.
I saw some interesting characteristics from Ogbole, during his minutes last year. I believe he is going to contribute more than this board expects.
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Exactly. The real question is how many of our wins would we have lost if we had Ogbole at center instead of Cliff.
I think it will be considerably easier than most think, with a different skill set that better fit this team, most importantly defending the other teams 5.
The other 4 positions on the team will give us elite defense with less need for the 5 position to rim protect . Which is overrated. Especially if it doesn’t result in a change of possession..
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Even Cliff’s best game we were up 10 before he contributed on either side, I believe he even had a foul on the defensive end.
Actually, the issue for now with Ogbole is staying on the court moreso than bad D (Wolf had the poor D which is probably why he’s the one Pike nudged out). Ogbole plays physical but commits a lot of fouls. If he can’t stay out of foul trouble, that’s where we could run into problems without another veteran depending on how game ready Somerville comes in on D. I disagree with the idea that Ogbole will “hurt” us. Don’t see that even if he’s not the best offensive player. We don’t necessarily need that from our center.
This is flawed analysis.
Last year's "center" role is likely (hopefully?) very different from next year's role.
Ideally the center next year isn't being relied upon for significant scoring. Ideally it could happen but it doesn't NEED to happen like it did last year.
Need to evaluate Clif (or any potential player) based on the role they are filling
Not the role they filled last year (or on previous teams).
I've said the same about the Acuff/Derkack transfers and JWill as well. They all appear to be great scorers with the ball in their hands.
But will that be their role next year - playing next to Dylan/Ace?
Or will they be more off ball - which puts a higher priority on other skills (such as outside shooting).
Player A could be better overall than Player B.
But if the actual role requires the skills of Player B - then Player B is the better acquisition for the team.