Big 3 Coaching Turnover

[StateCollege]

As it appears we possibly/probably will be in the market for a new football coach, it made me realize just how many coaching searches we've been through over the last decade.

MSU Big 3 Head Coaches since 2014​

Football	Baseball	Basketball
Mullen	Cohen	Ray
Moorhead	Cannizaro	Howland
Leach	Henderson*	Jans
Arnett	Lemonis

*interim, but coached basically a full season

Of course one of the hires was due to a tragedy, but that's 11 head coaches in 10 years across our 3 major sports. Not even mentioning how we might be looking for a new baseball coach after this season. I don't know how our HC turnover stacks up against other D-1/FBS schools, but it has to be one of the highest right?

 

[GloryDawg]

We probably hired more the last decade then the previous five decades combined.

 

[FlotownDawg]

Two of those job searches were not on field related. Cannizzaro was fired for dipping his pen in the company ink and Leach passed away. Both of those led to four different coaches (Henderson, Lemonis and Arnett, whoever is next). So it looks worse than it actually is because of unforeseen circumstances.

 

[The Peeper]

And look at how many were just down right bad hires; Moorhead, Arnett, Cannizaro, Ray. Lemonis and Howland can be debated whether they were good or not, especially Lemonis if he tanks this year too

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I was really hopeful for a long, successful run with Leach, Howland, Shaffer and Lemonis a few years ago. I thought we were in a pretty good spot with stable coaches. Dead Ones had other plans.

 

[ckDOG]

How does this compare to the average P5 school? Is this pretty standard or should we be taking a look in the mirror?

 

[OldVideoGuy]

How does this compare to the average P5 school? Is this pretty standard or should we be taking a look in the mirror?

Just did a quick Google about our neighbors to the north. They've had 3 football coaches, 5 basketball coaches (2 interim) and 1 baseball coach. So I'd say we a little above average

 

[MSUDC11-2.0]

And look at how many were just down right bad hires; Moorhead, Arnett, Cannizaro, Ray. Lemonis and Howland can be debated whether they were good or not, especially Lemonis if he tanks this year too

Howland was a frustrating coach but I have a hard time saying his tenure wasn’t mostly a net positive. We were a way better program when he was let go than when he was hired. His failure was that we could’ve been more, but he did accomplish the bare minimum of getting us back in some kind of postseason annually.

Lemonis is super polarizing but I have a hard time calling a national title winning coach a “bad hire”, even if the last couple of years have been rough. I don’t care what he inherited, nobody else in our history can say they won the big one.

 

[uptowndawg]

You could make an argument that 6 of those 8 transitions were a domino effect that started with Florida hiring loaferz

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

Lemonis is super polarizing but I have a hard time calling a national title winning coach a “bad hire”, even if the last couple of years have been rough. I don’t care what he inherited, nobody else in our history can say they won the big one.

Lemonis was the best hire we've made. However, that doesn't mean success will be sustained. Just imagine if he hadn't brought us that title, that'd mean OM has more baseball nattys than us and we're a "baseball school."

No one should argue Lemonis wasn't a great hire, even if we'd fired him after this past season.

 

[kired]

And look at how many were just down right bad hires; Moorhead, Arnett, Cannizaro, Ray. Lemonis and Howland can be debated whether they were good or not, especially Lemonis if he tanks this year too

When I've looked at it before, seems like ~50% of head coaching hires were flops. We've got 4 out of 10 on that list if you don't include Henderson.

The other 50% weren't necessarily great hires, some just good enough to not get fired (Howland). You would think schools with more money typically make better hires just because they have more candidates to choose from - but that's not always the case.

 

[Dawgbite]

It’s all my fault. I made a deal with an evil deity a few years ago while sitting in a parking lot one summer afternoon in Omaha Nebraska. If anyone know s some way to break the curse, an incantation or a sacrifice, I’ll be driving through Omaha tomorrow!

 

[ETK99]

Outside the noted exclusionary issues, who cares? This is 2023 and the money is crazy money. It's win or be gone now.

 

[The Peeper]

Howland was a frustrating coach but I have a hard time saying his tenure wasn’t mostly a net positive. We were a way better program when he was let go than when he was hired. His failure was that we could’ve been more, but he did accomplish the bare minimum of getting us back in some kind of postseason annually.

Lemonis is super polarizing but I have a hard time calling a national title winning coach a “bad hire”, even if the last couple of years have been rough. I don’t care what he inherited, nobody else in our history can say they won the big one.

I agree, but, if he tanks this year too then I don't know anybody else in history that has won the big one and then totally sucked the next 3 years either

 

[Ozarkdawg]

Is 3 in a 10 year span really an issue?
A guy goes out, regardless of reason.
Another guy comes in for 6-7-8 years and he goes out.
Another guy comes in, could just be his first year.
It's pretty easy to go through 3 in 10 seasons.

So what is the average tenure for a HC in each of those sports?

 

[MSUDC11-2.0]

I agree, but, if he tanks this year too then I don't anybody else in history that has won the big one and then totally sucked the next 3 years either

His legacy right now is arguably as complicated as anyone that’s ever been here in any sport.

 

[Darryl Steight]

Howland was a frustrating coach but I have a hard time saying his tenure wasn’t mostly a net positive. We were a way better program when he was let go than when he was hired. His failure was that we could’ve been more, but he did accomplish the bare minimum of getting us back in some kind of postseason annually.

Lemonis is super polarizing but I have a hard time calling a national title winning coach a “bad hire”, even if the last couple of years have been rough. I don’t care what he inherited, nobody else in our history can say they won the big one.

Grandpa Ben was definitely a transition out of the darkness and into... stability, I guess. He was just out of juice when he got here. He could still use his connections to recruit, but his fire to compete was gone for whatever reason. Zero juice, none, zip, nada. What's the opposite of juice? That's what he - and by extension our program - had while he was here. It's too bad, too, because some great players came through during his tenure.

 

[MSUDC11-2.0]

Grandpa Ben was definitely a transition out of the darkness and into... stability, I guess. He was just out of juice when he got here. He could still use his connections to recruit, but his fire to compete was gone for whatever reason. Zero juice, none, zip, nada. What's the opposite of juice? That's what he - and by extension our program - had while he was here. It's too bad, too, because some great players came through during his tenure.

Howland was about as interesting as a jar of mayonnaise. And I definitely think he underachieved here. But it sure as heck beat whatever you wanna call the Rick Ray era. I’ll always concede that even as someone who was one of the earlier Howland critics in our fanbase.

 

[Ozarkdawg]

Howland was about as interesting as a jar of mayonnaise. And I definitely think he underachieved here. But it sure as heck beat whatever you wanna call the Rick Ray era. I’ll always concede that even as someone who was one of the earlier Howland critics in our fanbase.

Speaking of a jar of mayonnaise (not his best work)

 

[drexeldog23]

back in the day i was always proud of the football coaching continuity. back when we had 3 head coaches over a 27 year period. that was always something i could use to needle my rebel friends and family about. during that 27 year run i think they had like 8 head coaches. the Howland hire, while not near as successful as we would have liked, is understandable. he had been to back to back Final Fours just seven years before. im sure there would have been a few other A D s that would have made that mistake.