B10 Refereeing

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

. You NEVER admit when the refs affect the game. I find odd your utter refusal to admit that, sometimes, the officiating gives one team the advantage over the other.

with that said. I agree with you on this matter about today (and I said it at half time when we were down big). Sure there were a few bad calls (the ridiculous charge on paul and the attempted purposeful elbow to miller’s face) but I didn’t see a plethora of bad calls against RU and I am sure Maryland fans could point to a few from their perspective.

the difference in the game was Rutgers. First half literally EVERY player (except Harper on offense) was playing HORRIBLY. Geo was absent. Paul a TO machine. Cliff dropped how many passes/ rebounds?

they completely turned it around in the second half

frankly if you attribute the difference in the halves to officiating then you’re simply not giving the team proper credit for their effort and execution in the 2nd half (and conversely not acknowledging how poorly we played in the first)

What you miss is NOT that the calls against Rutgers were so bad in the first half.. it was that the same calls COULD have been made against Maryland and were NOT. I am just happy that the better team won in the end.. not thanks to a fairly called game.

I can also say that, imo, at least two bad calls were understandable in that the refs simply did not see the whole thing or that it probably looked worse from their angle. But that doesn't mean seeing a first-half foul differential of 12-5 and FT differential of 1-15 had any other explanation rather than simply UNFAIR refereeing... intentional or not. NOT, I suspect, because they could have done the same in the second half.

I actually think the refs must have reviewed what they did during halftime in some fashion because they allowed us to get handsy early in the second half... as handsy as Maryland was.. maybe... but they still had the differential of the first half that we could not get back.

BAC wants to say, like a commentator, that it was because we weren't going inside.. but we WERE going inside.. NO CALLS.. that was the issue. We actually scored more in teh pain than they did...

https://umterps.com/sports/mens-basketball/stats/2021-22/rutgers/boxscore/12670#play-analysis

That link above shows both teams scored 16 in the pain in the first half.. and certainly, MD had more break-away points down there than we did. So we took the ball to the paint as often as MD did but did not get the foul calls.

Anyone with eyes in their head could see that... well, anyone who did not feel the need to resort to old knee-jerk explanations to rationalize severe foul call differentials so they could avoid being labeled as someone who blames the refs for anything.

 

[SirScarlet]

What you miss is not that the calls against Rutgers were so bad in the first half.. it was that the same calls COULD have been made against Maryland and were NOT. I am just happy that the better team won in the end.. not thanks to a fairly called game.

I can also say that, imo, at least two bad calls were understandable in that the refs simply did not see the whole thing or that it probably looked worse from their angle. But that doesn't mean seeing a first-half foul differential of 12-5 and FT differential of 1-15 had any other explanation rather than simply UNFAIR refereeing... intentional or not. NOT, I suspect, because they could have done the same in the second half.

I actually think the refs must have reviewed what they did during halftime in some fashion because they allowed us to get handsy early in the second half... as handsy as Maryland was.. maybe... but they still had the differential of the first half that we could not get back.

BAC wants to say, like a commentator, that it was because we weren't going inside.. but we WERE going inside.. NO CALLS.. that was the issue. We actually scored more in teh pain than they did...

https://umterps.com/sports/mens-basketball/stats/2021-22/rutgers/boxscore/12670#play-analysis

That link above shows both teams scored 16 in the pain in the first half.. and certainly, MD had more break-away points down there than we did. So we took the ball to the paint as often as MD did but did not get the foul calls.

Anyone with eyes in their head could see that... well, anyone who did not feel the need to resort to old knee-jerk explanations to rationalize severe foul call differentials so they could avoid being labeled as someone who blames the refs for anything.

Ding ding ding

 

[Yeah Baby]

Whether or not you agree with the premise, I’d like to see Pike more vocal and animated on the sidelines.

It depends on the ref. Some of these guys are egomaniacs and don’t want to be questioned. Some may just get pissed for a few minutes but even then that could compound a bad call. Pike was fired up for sure which helps the team but you gotta be careful with the refs. I like how Caleb talks to them all game long when he disagrees with them. There seems to be mutual respect between Caleb and the refs. That’s the balance the coaches and the players need to have.

 

[SirScarlet]

It depends on the ref. Some of these guys are egomaniacs and don’t want to be questioned. Some may just get pissed for a few minutes but even then that could compound a bad call. Pike was fired up for sure which helps the team but you gotta be careful with the refs. I like how Caleb talks to them all game long when he disagrees with them. There seems to be mutual respect between Caleb and the refs. That’s the balance the coaches and the players need to have.

I dont think anyone is asking Pike to flip tables over and chuck chairs every game.

But he needs to work the refs more. Refs know they can fvk us with impunity... which is why they are so awful with us.

Hes got to make the refs a bit more uncomfortable. Not asking for insanity on the sidelines...but a bit more yelling from Pike will undoubtedly help.

 

[Yeah Baby]

I dont think anyone is asking Pike to flip tables over and chuck chairs every game.

But he needs to work the refs more. Refs know they can fvk us with impunity... which is why they are so awful with us.

Hes got to make the refs a bit more uncomfortable. Not asking for insanity on the sidelines...but a bit more yelling from Pike will undoubtedly help.

Depends on the ref. I have experienced first hand refs who hold grudges.

We are also looking at isolated cases in that thread. If you rewatch the Purdue game we had 2 really bad calls against us with less than 10 minutes left but we got 2 calls down the stretch that I thought were the right calls but Purdue fans didn’t love them. If Pike pissed those guys off we may not win that game.

 

[SirScarlet]

Depends on the ref. I have experienced first hand refs who hold grudges.

We are also looking at isolated cases in that thread. If you rewatch the Purdue game we had 2 really bad calls against us with less than 10 minutes left but we got 2 calls down the stretch that I thought were the right calls but Purdue fans didn’t love them. If Pike pissed those guys off we may not win that game.

I get it and I understand your point. As a coach I have experienced the same. Refs are human beings and you need to use your social skills accordingly

I should have been more clear but it is implied in my post that I would expect Pike to use his judgment on which guys to get on and how to get on them.

All I'm saying is that I don't think it's a winning strategy long-term to never really say much to them. I mean we've all been to the games and we see him get on them but he is probably one of the guys who gets on them the least. All I am asking for is to turn that up a notch or two. That's all.

 

[G- RUnit]

What you miss is NOT that the calls against Rutgers were so bad in the first half.. it was that the same calls COULD have been made against Maryland and were NOT. I am just happy that the better team won in the end.. not thanks to a fairly called game.

I can also say that, imo, at least two bad calls were understandable in that the refs simply did not see the whole thing or that it probably looked worse from their angle. But that doesn't mean seeing a first-half foul differential of 12-5 and FT differential of 1-15 had any other explanation rather than simply UNFAIR refereeing... intentional or not. NOT, I suspect, because they could have done the same in the second half.

I actually think the refs must have reviewed what they did during halftime in some fashion because they allowed us to get handsy early in the second half... as handsy as Maryland was.. maybe... but they still had the differential of the first half that we could not get back.

BAC wants to say, like a commentator, that it was because we weren't going inside.. but we WERE going inside.. NO CALLS.. that was the issue. We actually scored more in teh pain than they did...

https://umterps.com/sports/mens-basketball/stats/2021-22/rutgers/boxscore/12670#play-analysis

That link above shows both teams scored 16 in the pain in the first half.. and certainly, MD had more break-away points down there than we did. So we took the ball to the paint as often as MD did but did not get the foul calls.

Anyone with eyes in their head could see that... well, anyone who did not feel the need to resort to old knee-jerk explanations to rationalize severe foul call differentials so they could avoid being labeled as someone who blames the refs for anything.

Best response of the year. It drives me nuts with the outdated responses: “Don’t blame the refs” or “it all evens out.”

The foul shot differential was equally as a big factor as turnovers in the first half deficit. 15 foul shots to 1??? Ridiculous.

Watching the game Maryland was indeed just as physical. Geo calling out the refs on the goal tending call driving to the basket is a perfect example. The Caleb foul was ridiculous. The Mulcahy offensive foul was a bad call. Miller gets an elbow to the face and nothing??

Pike has to be less of a nice guy, and while not showing up the refs, he has to be more demonstrative against bad calls or bad no calls.

Maryland didn’t have benefit of ridiculous foul shot advantage in 2nd half. Correlation? I think so. Refs are a huge factor.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

Pike has to be less of a nice guy, and while not showing up the refs, he has to be more demonstrative against bad calls or bad no calls.

Maryland didn’t have benefit of ridiculous foul shot advantage in 2nd half. Correlation? I think so. Refs are a huge factor.

Well.. here's the thing.. when Pike sees an obvious bad call.. and it is important.. he does react.

BUT.. when he does not see it himself he either...

A) react to every call strongly.. and we all know coaches who do that..
B) has to wait for replay.. if it has it available and he has time to look..
C) talk to the players and then choose to believe them or not.. and we have all seen players boldly LIE in opposition to correct calls
D) take into consideration the possibility that some involved had the wrong view and that it either looked like a violation when it was not or the other way around?

It is not as simple as we'd like.. and even at home watching on TV I could sometimes wear I saw one thing only to replay it myself and then have my confidence shaken or shattered.

Maybe they need to give basketball coaches a way of asking for a limited number of replays for ANY situation where it is really an open thing.. just look at last call/noncall on video and make a correction or not.

Example: They could review the high elbow strike/miss by Russel on Miller and actually call something... because that was a little different than him taking a swing and a miss at Miller... which would have been called.

Other examples: they could have reviewed Paul's travel.. or charge.. or the Caleb/Russel foul and looked at NOT whether Caleb had a high elbow (which they said NOT) but whether Russel flopped by placing his face against Caleb's upper arm then pulled his arm toward him while stumbling back. Russel did similar moves like 3 times... one time guarding Geo and grabbing his trailing arm and pulling it up high near his head while doing the head bob thing.. total flop attempt.

Russell was both very handsy that way while also taking many steps with the ball and switching pivot feet and shuffling before making a move... you couldn't invent a rule giving an opposing coach enough review options just for what Russel was doing.

 

[bitnez]

Refs are human. They can get caught up in the moment or the crowd. And they have biases even if they don’t think they do. The easiest one — when one team is playing better ball than the other it can influence how you see a particular play.
And for what it’s worth, I used to ref HS ball

 

[G- RUnit]

15 to 1 is more than being human. That’s a ridiculous bias. Inexcusable.