Are Toppin and Brooks next?

[wccat]

In no universe Brooks or Toppin go anywhere unless it is to transfer.

This video tells me Calipari's belief of what a college program should be, greatly differs from mine. This tells me he really thinks it is about the next level and getting there, wherever "there" is, as fast as possible. It’s not about building a program, it's about the kids leaving asap and you should only cone back if you need to work on some stuff.

Just like RP I really don't believe what these coaches say. 3 minutes? Could be or could be 3 hours. They play to their audience. What message are they trying to send and to whom....the next recruit.

 

[kyjeff1]

That’s a lot of double digit loss seasons

For "The Gold Standard" that has a coach making more money than Nick Saban… .yup.

Somehow, I see a post above that is trying desperately to make it seem like four 10 loss seasons and 2 missed tournaments, is pretty good. I guess I'm missing something. That’s not good at all.

 

[ShadowFromHomewardBound]

Pointing to the past is of little help at this point for a few reasons:

1. We're not landing elite freshmen anymore
2.Our 2nd tier players transfer or leave for the pros anyway

Your narrative treats the paradigm as if it's still an apples to apples comparison. It's not. We can't keep the Quades, the Vanderbilts, or the Montgomerys anymore, and we're not landing the Walls or the Davises.

The system is broken now, and Cal has not adjusted.

At all.

@jace2012 - You see this, right? Usually when a well meaning dude like Saul brings this or something similar to your attention you conveniently forget to reply back and engage. Just making sure you didn’t miss it.

It’s no worries man.

 

[The_Answer1313_rivals]

Pointing to the past is of little help at this point for a few reasons:

1. We're not landing elite freshmen anymore
2.Our 2nd tier players transfer or leave for the pros anyway

Your narrative treats the paradigm as if it's still an apples to apples comparison. It's not. We can't keep the Quades, the Vanderbilts, or the Montgomerys anymore, and we're not landing the Walls or the Davises.

The system is broken now, and Cal has not adjusted.

At all.

In regards to number 1 while it's certainly true we aren't pulling in the elite freshman over the past few seasons, I'm unclear as to why people just assume that's going to be the case going forward from now on.

For all the things that people have killed Cal over, I don't think anyone questions his ability to recruit.

I don't see any reason why he couldn't turn recruiting around. In fairness, the level we were going at from 2010-15 probably wasn't sustainable. But even post 15 had some elite freshman that led us to elite eights in 17 and 19. I really don't think there's any question we can still get those caliber of recruits. And if so, we'll be competitive and in the conversation for final fours and titles.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

In regards to number 1 while it's certainly true we aren't pulling in the elite freshman over the past few seasons, I'm unclear as to why people just assume that's going to be the case going forward from now on.

For all the things that people have killed Cal over, I don't think anyone questions his ability to recruit.

I don't see any reason why he couldn't turn recruiting around. In fairness, the level we were going at from 2010-15 probably wasn't sustainable. But even post 15 had some elite freshman that led us to elite eights in 17 and 19. I really don't think there's any question we can still get those caliber of recruits. And if so, we'll be competitive and in the conversation for final fours and titles.

I can get on board with this type of optimism. I already have a solution: whatever the g-league offers guys like Hardy, get Nike to offer him more to attend UK.

 

[JAC71]

That’s a lot of double digit loss seasons

You should look at the coaches win/loss record that some on here want to be the next coach

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

You should look at the coaches win/loss record that some on here want to be the next coach

I'll take Frank Vogel in two years with assistant coaches in Rajon Rondo, Jason Kidd (already a Vogel assistant), Derek Anderson, and maybe someone like Bryan Hodgson (Alabama) or Saddi Washington (Michigan).

 

[fatguy87]

I don't see any reason why he couldn't turn recruiting around. In fairness, the level we were going at from 2010-15 probably wasn't sustainable. But even post 15 had some elite freshman that led us to elite eights in 17 and 19. I really don't think there's any question we can still get those caliber of recruits. And if so, we'll be competitive and in the conversation for final fours and titles.

We can still get elite recruits, the issue is the amount of variance. Based on recruiting rankings, Boston and Clarke could have been every bit the players that Fox and Monk were. Seeing what we got out of Jackson and coming into the season nabbing Sarr, projecting a Monk/Fox/Bam trio was really not that extraordinary. Boston and Clarke did not live up to those projections, obviously.

Let's say that we had a Monk/Fox/Bam trio in this recruiting class. We still would have not been as good as we were in 2017. We didn't have an incoming player or returning guy projected to be even close as good as a senior Willis. Instead, we had to roll the dice on transfers, two of which were mediocre at inferior programs. We are dependent on 1 season mercenaries, a majority of which who have never played a college game, because we don't have interest in investing in player development.

 

[kyjeff1]

In regards to number 1 while it's certainly true we aren't pulling in the elite freshman over the past few seasons, I'm unclear as to why people just assume that's going to be the case going forward from now on.

For all the things that people have killed Cal over, I don't think anyone questions his ability to recruit.

I don't see any reason why he couldn't turn recruiting around. In fairness, the level we were going at from 2010-15 probably wasn't sustainable. But even post 15 had some elite freshman that led us to elite eights in 17 and 19. I really don't think there's any question we can still get those caliber of recruits. And if so, we'll be competitive and in the conversation for final fours and titles.

Because he hasn't been. He has offered every highly rated hs kid since he got here. From 2009 through 2014, he got anyone he wanted. He had success with the 2016 class, but since then, it's been all 2nd tier AAU athletes. He's missed on all the big fish and now these kids have an avenue to get paid, so the days of getting AD and Wall type kids, is long gone.

Plus, it's not working, it's time to turn this back into a 4 year university, instead of this one or two year farm system.

 

[kyjeff1]

You should look at the coaches win/loss record that some on here want to be the next coach

Were those coaches coaching at UK? Yes or no? People like you want to campare what Cal did at UK from 2009-2015 to what other coaches are doing at much lesser programs. What did Cal do every year before he came to UK, besides have 2 seasons vacated?

 

[UKortho]

wait, Calipari said he spends three minutes with a player after the season? You gotta be kidding..

I think the players agree to meet with Cal for three minutes or less.

 

[JAC71]

I'll take Frank Vogel in two years with assistant coaches in Rajon Rondo, Jason Kidd (already a Vogel assistant), Derek Anderson, and maybe someone like Bryan Hodgson (Alabama) or Saddi Washington (Michigan).

Yes I was about to make post the other day about this very thing, an NBA assistant would suffice if you can’t get a NBA head coach even.

 

[ArtLaibsGhost_rivals]

Pointing to the past is of little help at this point for a few reasons:

1. We're not landing elite freshmen anymore
2.Our 2nd tier players transfer or leave for the pros anyway

Your narrative treats the paradigm as if it's still an apples to apples comparison. It's not. We can't keep the Quades, the Vanderbilts, or the Montgomerys anymore, and we're not landing the Walls or the Davises.

The system is broken now, and Cal has not adjusted.

At all.

Not to mention the Juzangs and Bakers

 

[senonesy]

Brooks is not coming back.

Brooks will be back

 

[germuk]

I'll take Frank Vogel in two years with assistant coaches in Rajon Rondo, Jason Kidd (already a Vogel assistant), Derek Anderson, and maybe someone like Bryan Hodgson (Alabama) or Saddi Washington (Michigan).

Vogel will be in LA as long as Lebron is dominant and he has a championship in the NBA. He’s a Kentucky guy, but no chance he leaves the NBA. It’s also no secret that Kidd would love to have a head coaching gig again and will probably be tied to NBA openings this summer.

Rondo is the guy I would throw the bank at, whether it’s as the head coach or the top assistant. He’d hold people accountable and is one of the smartest basketball kinds of his generation.

 

[JonathanW_rivals]

Toppin where is he going exactly? He'll be back.

Brooks.........the only thing that makes me hesitant is wasn't he basically out the door the year before? To me, that signals a guy that really wants to go. It kinda reminds me of Lamb. Yeah u might get them to stay another year but staying 3 or 4 years? I don't know.

I really feel like we are in this state of flux with this team. We need multi year guys to have some kind of foundation for future years but they need to be good too or else we are looking at another rough year next season.

It's ok for these guys to come back but in addition I feel like Cal needs to hit a HR or two in recruiting. He didn't last year and from what I gather about the incoming class, he hasn't this year either.

I know nothing about “Brooks being nearly out the door last year”. But big difference in him and Lamb. Lamb had reached his ceiling. Brooks has not.
Brooks is a college 3/4, NBA 3 that can’t shoot. He is not getting a sniff by NBA.

Toppin is also a 3/4. He has a higher ceiling than Brooks, but if they played 1 on 1 right now I might give edge to Brooks.

So I think they both return, unless they absolutely hate it at UK, and transfer.

Cal likes each player having his day to announce returning or leaving. I think he wanted the Clarke and Boston announcements out of the way to show top transfers there are minutes here for them.
The only one left I am unsure about is Mintz.

 

[warrior-cat]

Are the guys that we dont think will leave going to leave because the guys we knew were going to leave are leaving?

To leave or not to leave, that is the question. Oh hell, I am just going to leave it alone.

 

[warrior-cat]

They all gone. Rinse. Repeat. Uk basketball sucks again.

 

[warrior-cat]

I have been wondering with how bad the season went that those who are not NBA ready might want to transfer out just to get a fresh start. If they see 4 or 5 leaving and see others coming in who might play over them it might convince them to go. That and their friends and family could convince them. We have had a lot of transfers in recent years.

 

[RunninRichie]

I have been wondering with how bad the season went that those who are not NBA ready might want to transfer out just to get a fresh start. If they see 4 or 5 leaving and see others coming in who might play over them it might convince them to go. That and their friends and family could convince them. We have had a lot of transfers in recent years.

09-15
Harrow
Wiltjer
Poole
16-21
Matthews
Wynard
Fletcher
Whitney
Juzang
SKJ
Lee

Baker
Green

 

[know1]

If they don't go to the league, they will leave for a program where they will get some actual coaching and play in a program whose goal is actually focused on winning college basketball.

 

[turkeywildturkey]

Toppin is a 4 IMO forced to play the 3 this past season. Brooks is a tweener. Hope they both come back.

I hope so too. I love Toppin. I think he has a huge upside, and I think Brooks will be better next year also.

 

[rockout1]

Brooks will be back

Not happening. That’s the main person Sisk is talking about leaving.

 

[jessieshorts8]

It was strange to me that Brooks had a great game in his return but seemed to get worse as the season went along.

 

[BassProCat]

Not happening. That’s the main person Sisk is talking about leaving.

Just makes zero sense. You going into your Jr season and will be the vet of the team. Why transfer out?! This is the **** that’s going to piss me off. Idc about Boston and Clarke leaving...Cal needsto get KB to stay if these rumors are true.

 

[cats#1again]

But those are the types of players that should be program players.

If Cal is going to do as he says, those are the guys he needs to get to come back next season and the season after.

He says he spends 3 minutes with each player after the season, well, that needs to change, he needs to have a plan for each player and make UK a priority for guys that are not first round draft picks.

He spends 3 mins because none of it is in his control.
He could spend 3 weeks telling kids they need to come back and it's still not in his control

 

[cats#1again]

Just makes zero sense. You going into your Jr season and will be the vet of the team. Why transfer out?! This is the **** that’s going to piss me off. Idc about Boston and Clarke leaving...Cal needsto get KB to stay if these rumors are true.

Brooks has been gone since August

 

[kyjeff1]

He spends 3 mins because none of it is in his control.
He could spend 3 weeks telling kids they need to come back and it's still not in his control

It’s not in his control, because the main thing he can control, the culture, is focused on players leaving.

You won't win this discussion. It’s pretty simple, there are 350 D1 programs, 348 always seem to have really good juniors and seniors, so don't tell me the coach has no control over player retention.

You are obviously a 12 year fan, you have no idea what UK basketball is supposed to be. This ain't it.

You can leave when Cal leaves in my opinion.

 

[kyjeff1]

It was strange to me that Brooks had a great game in his return but seemed to get worse as the season went along.

It all falls on Cal. It seemed like everything he did was the wrong way to do it, or the wrong decision.

Nobody, except for Mintz and IJ, seemed to improve all season.

Cal's statements and actions all season, were completely bizarre, so it comes as no surprise that the team and individual players, never improved.

The guy is a madman that seemed hell bent on proving the fans wrong instead of trying to win games.

 

[yabbadabbadoo_rivals213851]

Won’t hurt us if Brooks leaves
Prolly be better off honestly

 

[rockout1]

Just makes zero sense. You going into your Jr season and will be the vet of the team. Why transfer out?! This is the **** that’s going to piss me off. Idc about Boston and Clarke leaving...Cal needsto get KB to stay if these rumors are true.

Agree 100%. Hope I’m wrong but I don’t think I am.

 

[BluCroo]

Brooks has bad baggage.

 

[rivercatinfl]

Brooks is a tweener(3&4). He really needs to work on his strength, hands, passing and shooting(especially in the paint). Whether that is here or not is up in the air.

Toppin came here to improve in every aspect of the game. He has all of the tools to be great and a work ethic to get there. I highly doubt he leaves.

Good points. Hoping Brooks goes. We can do better. Let him go.

 

[UK_fan_41102]

It might depend on who UK adds over the upcoming weeks, as to whether they stay or go. They might not want to split minutes here, knowing bigger minutes/role could be had elsewhere. Now I really hope Toppin and Brooks both return, but anymore I just hope for the best and expect the worst.

 

[katwest]

I really don't know why this is necessary every year with all of our players, this is flat out ridiculous. What do Brooks and Toppin have to think about, for both their best decision is to come back like any other player anywhere else and play their junior year and hope for the best. If they don't want to be at Kentucky then leave but if they both have the league in mind, they have a lot of work to do. They will see that when they see Clarke and Boston struggling in the G-league this time next year.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

I really don't know why this is necessary every year with all of our players, this is flat out ridiculous. What do Brooks and Toppin have to think about, for both their best decision is to come back like any other player anywhere else and play their junior year and hope for the best. If they don't want to be at Kentucky then leave but if they both have the league in mind, they have a lot of work to do. They will see that when they see Clarke and Boston struggling in the G-league this time next year.

Well, there is the one time transfer option.. which is ripping every school apart. Seth Greenberg said he expects 2,000 to enter the portal (although he seems to be exaggerating).

And there isn't a clear 30 minutes for Brooks AND Toppin.. when you have our other 4 or 5 forwards on the team... they might be each waiting on each other.

 

[bucsrule8872]

Just speculating, but I think it was Brooks or Ware and Ware deciding to return signals that Brooks is gone. They essentially would play the same role next season, so Ware probably doesn’t decide to come back if KB is going to be there. Not enough minutes inside for both of them with Big O and Collins and probably Toppin back. I expect a Toppin/Big O/Collins/Ware rotation at the 4 and 5 with Hopkins getting spot minutes at the 4.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

Btw.. anyone think this 1 time transfer rule gets turned back once COVID is gone? What a disaster. There won't be many coaches in D1 that don't have a roster shakeup.

 

[RunninRichie]

Btw.. anyone think this 1 time transfer rule gets turned back once COVID is gone? What a disaster. There won't be many coaches in D1 that don't have a roster shakeup.

cincinnati has 4 players on the team rn.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

cincinnati has 4 players on the team rn.

Ooof. I get it, the whole part about how coaches can leave and not players. But thats just the way it is. There's 351 coaches.. and like 5000 players. You can't have this much turnover. If a player wants to leave, he has to sit a year.