Another . . .

[8th Street]

USC is scheduled to face UNC-Asheville on Tuesday to open NIT play.

Whether USC fields a competitive team or not is to be determined. Trojans head coach Andy Enfield, salty over what he deems an NCAA snub after a second-place finish in the Pac-12, was openly flippant about the NIT in a Monday media conference, as relayed by the Orange County Register.

He also floated the idea of sitting players in the NIT, specifically NBA prospect Chimezie Metu.

 

[Jost Van Dyke]

USC is scheduled to face UNC-Asheville on Tuesday to open NIT play.

Whether USC fields a competitive team or not is to be determined. Trojans head coach Andy Enfield, salty over what he deems an NCAA snub after a second-place finish in the Pac-12, was openly flippant about the NIT in a Monday media conference, as relayed by the Orange County Register.

He also floated the idea of sitting players in the NIT, specifically NBA prospect Chimezie Metu.

This quote from Enfield sums it up nicely “If all that matters is the quality of your best win or two on your schedule, then we should set the field in December after the out-of-conference is complete,” Enfield said. “It basically discredited our entire league schedule.”

 

[PeliniTheCrutch_rivals294365]

He and his team got screwed worse than anyone. He deserves to b!tch.

 

[schuele]

“If all that matters is the quality of your best win or two on your schedule, then we should set the field in December after the out-of-conference is complete,” Enfield said.

I wonder which team he was referring to?

 

[chicolby]

This quote from Enfield sums it up nicely “If all that matters is the quality of your best win or two on your schedule, then we should set the field in December after the out-of-conference is complete,” Enfield said. “It basically discredited our entire league schedule.”

Bingo. This is why I hate this new plan. Outside of crowning a tournament champion, the conference holds no value.

 

[RealTucoSalamanca]

Bingo. This is why I hate this new plan. Outside of crowning a tournament champion, the conference holds no value.

Out of league records

Michigan St 13-2 and 1-1 against teams in the tournament (UNC - Duke)
Purdue 13-3 and 2-1 (Butler and Arizona - Tennessee)
Ohio St 9-5 and 0-4 (Gonzaga, Clemson, Butler, UNC)
Michigan 15-2 and 1-1 (Texas - UNC)
Nebraska 9-5 and 0-2 (Creighton and Kansas)
Penn St 12-4 and 0-2 (Texas A&M and NC State)
Indiana 7-6 and 0-2 (Seton Hall and Duke)
Maryland 11-3 and 2-2 (Bucknell and Butler - Syracuse and St Bonaventure
Wisconsin 8-7 and 0-3 (Xavier, Virginia and UCLA)
Northwestern 9-5 and 0-3(Creighton, Texas Tech and Oklahoma)
Minnesota 11-3 and 2-1 (Providence and Alabama - Miami)
Illinois 10-4 and 1-1 (Missouri - New Mexico St)
Iowa 10-5 and 0-2 (South Dakota St and Virginia Tech)
Rutgers 12-4 and 1-1 (Seton Hall - Florida St)

The Big Ten won plenty of games in the non conference. They just didn't win against good teams. 10-26 against teams in the tournament.

When you go into the conference season with only 10 "quality wins" as a league, you simply cannot expect the conference season to mean much.

 

[dinglefritz]

Out of league records

Michigan St 13-2 and 1-1 against teams in the tournament (UNC - Duke)
Purdue 13-3 and 2-1 (Butler and Arizona - Tennessee)
Ohio St 9-5 and 0-4 (Gonzaga, Clemson, Butler, UNC)
Michigan 15-2 and 1-1 (Texas - UNC)
Nebraska 9-5 and 0-2 (Creighton and Kansas)
Penn St 12-4 and 0-2 (Texas A&M and NC State)
Indiana 7-6 and 0-2 (Seton Hall and Duke)
Maryland 11-3 and 2-2 (Bucknell and Butler - Syracuse and St Bonaventure
Wisconsin 8-7 and 0-3 (Xavier, Virginia and UCLA)
Northwestern 9-5 and 0-3(Creighton, Texas Tech and Oklahoma)
Minnesota 11-3 and 2-1 (Providence and Alabama - Miami)
Illinois 10-4 and 1-1 (Missouri - New Mexico St)
Iowa 10-5 and 0-2 (South Dakota St and Virginia Tech)
Rutgers 12-4 and 1-1 (Seton Hall - Florida St)

The Big Ten won plenty of games in the non conference. They just didn't win against good teams. 10-26 against teams in the tournament.

When you go into the conference season with only 10 "quality wins" as a league, you simply cannot expect the conference season to mean much.

Statistically the weighting on non-conference games ends up skewing the RPI throughout the season. It's an extremely flawed method of analysis. At some point there needs to be some eyeballs applied to note that teams like OU have regressed and that other teams have improved since the non-conference. This is the worst NCAA selection process I've ever witnessed. Noting conference records doesn't change that.

 

[RealTucoSalamanca]

Statistically the weighting on non-conference games ends up skewing the RPI throughout the season. It's an extremely flawed method of analysis. At some point there needs to be some eyeballs applied to note that teams like OU have regressed and that other teams have improved since the non-conference. This is the worst NCAA selection process I've ever witnessed. Noting conference records doesn't change that.

I didn't even mention the RPI. The B1G has TEN wins against teams from other leagues that made the NCAA tournament.

As I said you have to establish a base to compare. If teams only played league games, how do you know how they play against teams from other leagues? Guess? In this case I have provided you factual evidence that the B1G was 10-26 against teams, from other leagues, that are going to the NCAA tournament. A reasonable person would conclude that the intra-league games would matter less because of that. If another league is 26-10 against out of league teams going to the NCAA tournament, that same reasonable person would see that this league's intra-league games would matter more.

 

[huskerfan1414]

This quote from Enfield sums it up nicely “If all that matters is the quality of your best win or two on your schedule, then we should set the field in December after the out-of-conference is complete,” Enfield said. “It basically discredited our entire league schedule.”

Yes.
this is the only logical conclusion.
Again, for the 8th time, a team could win 6 games all in november or december and get in by the committees criteria.

 

[RealTucoSalamanca]

Yes.
this is the only logical conclusion.
Again, for the 8th time, a team could win 6 games all in november or december and get in by the committees criteria.

Didn't OU beat USC in Los Angeles?

 

[huskerfan1414]

Didn't OU beat USC in Los Angeles?

Didnt Nebraska beat Michigan by a lot?

 

[RealTucoSalamanca]

Didnt Nebraska beat Michigan by a lot?

Were Nebraska and Michigan on the bubble to the point that it may have been the deciding factor? Game was in Lincoln, also makes it different.

 

[huskerfan1414]

Were Nebraska and Michigan on the bubble to the point that it may have been the deciding factor? Game was in Lincoln, also makes it different.

Would it matter more to blow out a 3 seed tourney champ or beat a team on the road the committee felt undeserving of any seed at all?
Oh ok in lincoln makes it different because you say so, but the quality of the opponent according to the NCAAs own admission doesnt matter. Got it.
No im not saying Nebraska definitely deserved in just using it as a point.
Stop what youre doing.

 

[RealTucoSalamanca]

Would it matter more to blow out a 3 seed tourney champ or beat a team on the road the committee felt undeserving of any seed at all?
Oh ok in lincoln makes it different because you say so, but the quality of the opponent according to the NCAAs own admission doesnt matter. Got it.
No im not saying Nebraska definitely deserved in just using it as a point.
Stop what youre doing.

What? Nice try. Using that logic Penn St gets in over Ohio St. That only applies when the teams are close, as a deciding factor.

Nebraska is out, Oklahoma is in. And if the roles were reversed you would be on here justifying Nebraska's November and December victories as the reason they were in.

 

[inWV]

So what was the Big XII's record in out of league play against tourney bound teams?

 

[Redscarlet]

So what was the Big XII's record in out of league play against tourney bound teams?

1-2 for Oklahoma since USC didn’t get in over Arizona St who they finished ahead of in the conference race.

That win was Wichita St.

 

[big red23]

He and his team got screwed worse than anyone. He deserves to b!tch.

He does, but IMO so do we...

Some people think Okie St. And Middle Tennessee deserve to as well

Some people think St. Mary's, Baylor and Notre Dame have a right to *****

Here is the problem, those teams were in the discussion and we weren't. We ended up a ****ing 5 seed in the NIT. So I don't give a **** if you don't think we have a right to be pissed

 

[Spartanhusker]

What? Nice try. Using that logic Penn St gets in over Ohio St. That only applies when the teams are close, as a deciding factor.

Nebraska is out, Oklahoma is in. And if the roles were reversed you would be on here justifying Nebraska's November and December victories as the reason they were in.

No, I don't think I would.....I'd be happy to be in but not feeling justified....

 

[RealTucoSalamanca]

So what was the Big XII's record in out of league play against tourney bound teams?

Kansas 4-1
Texas Tech 1-1
West Virginia 2-2
Kansas St 0-1
TCU 3-0
Oklahoma St 1-3
Texas 2-3
Oklahoma 1-2
Baylor 2-3
Iowa St 0-2

16-17 at first glance

10 teams versus 14 teams.

6 more wins and 3 less games. Scheduling matters

 

[Redscarlet]

What? Nice try. Using that logic Penn St gets in over Ohio St. That only applies when the teams are close, as a deciding factor.

Nebraska is out, Oklahoma is in. And if the roles were reversed you would be on here justifying Nebraska's November and December victories as the reason they were in.

I’ll put it to you this way. I would have seen that we would have no chance winning in the 2nd or 1st round which ever we would have been put in by the way we were playing and losing games..

I quess we will all eat crow if Oklahoma beats R.I.

 

[Redscarlet]

Kansas 4-1
Texas Tech 1-1
West Virginia 2-2
Kansas St 0-1
TCU 3-0
Oklahoma St 0-3
Texas 2-3
Oklahoma 1-2
Baylor 2-3
Iowa St 0-2

15-17 at first glance

10 teams versus 14 teams.

5 more wins and only 4 less games. Scheduling matters

Ya I missed Bama and Arkansas.

 

[big red23]

I’ll put it to you this way. I would have seen that we would have no chance winning in the 2nd or 1st round which ever we would have been put in by the way we were playing and losing games..

I quess we will all eat crow if Oklahoma beats R.I.

RI is going to struggle mightily against Young. If you aren't familiar with the way Young plays he will eat you alive. His vision is off the charts. Just because Oklahoma doesn't deserve to be in the field doesn't mean they don't have potential to win games.

 

[Spartanhusker]

RI is going to struggle mightily against Young. If you aren't familiar with the way Young plays he will eat you alive. His vision is off the charts. Just because Oklahoma doesn't deserve to be in the field doesn't mean they don't have potential to win games.

You said two very correct things:
OU might eat URI alive
They don’t DESERVE in

 

[Redscarlet]

RI is going to struggle mightily against Young. If you aren't familiar with the way Young plays he will eat you alive. His vision is off the charts. Just because Oklahoma doesn't deserve to be in the field doesn't mean they don't have potential to win games.

It's the tournment so anything can happen and yes it's very possible Young will go off on them and win the game. I'm hoping for the opposite and he has a off day....

He's the big reason why the committee put OU in the tournment because he is one of the top players in College.

 

[RealTucoSalamanca]

I thought it was because of early season wins?

 

[big red23]

I thought it was because of early season wins?

Not sure if you are being sarcastic or not, but knowing the way you are on this board (A realist) as you once quote. You don't do sarcasm.

With that said, that is incorrect. If it was about the team with the best wins Okie State would have been in ahead of them. Trae Young is what put them over the top, and it is clear as day.

 

[RealTucoSalamanca]

Not sure if you are being sarcastic or not, but knowing the way you are on this board (A realist) as you once quote. You don't do sarcasm.

With that said, that is incorrect. If it was about the team with the best wins Okie State would have been in ahead of them. Trae Young is what put them over the top, and it is clear as day.

are you sure? Break it down for me.

 

[Jost Van Dyke]

Admittedly I don't follow college hoops, but after looking at Oklahoma's resume, I cannot believe they got in. I'm not the only one...

 

[chicolby]

Out of league records

Michigan St 13-2 and 1-1 against teams in the tournament (UNC - Duke)
Purdue 13-3 and 2-1 (Butler and Arizona - Tennessee)
Ohio St 9-5 and 0-4 (Gonzaga, Clemson, Butler, UNC)
Michigan 15-2 and 1-1 (Texas - UNC)
Nebraska 9-5 and 0-2 (Creighton and Kansas)
Penn St 12-4 and 0-2 (Texas A&M and NC State)
Indiana 7-6 and 0-2 (Seton Hall and Duke)
Maryland 11-3 and 2-2 (Bucknell and Butler - Syracuse and St Bonaventure
Wisconsin 8-7 and 0-3 (Xavier, Virginia and UCLA)
Northwestern 9-5 and 0-3(Creighton, Texas Tech and Oklahoma)
Minnesota 11-3 and 2-1 (Providence and Alabama - Miami)
Illinois 10-4 and 1-1 (Missouri - New Mexico St)
Iowa 10-5 and 0-2 (South Dakota St and Virginia Tech)
Rutgers 12-4 and 1-1 (Seton Hall - Florida St)

The Big Ten won plenty of games in the non conference. They just didn't win against good teams. 10-26 against teams in the tournament.

When you go into the conference season with only 10 "quality wins" as a league, you simply cannot expect the conference season to mean much.

Which, I think, validates my point. If B1G teams had gotten more quality wins in the non-conference, when they played each other, each win gained would have been quad 1 or 2. So it becomes less important.

OU picked up quality wins in non-conference and basically hit cruise control in conference. Same could be said for Arizona State. I believe finishing less than .500 in conference should be really tough to overcome. I'm not for making a hard fast rule saying under .500 in conference is out, but it should mean something. Today, how you perform in conference seems to mean very little as long as you picked up a few quality wins in non-conf.

 

[cubsker_rivals142943]

it's insane they got in. st marys or usc would both crush them.

 

[BluejayAttyAlum]

Yes.
this is the only logical conclusion.
Again, for the 8th time, a team could win 6 games all in november or december and get in by the committees criteria.

C'mon. If you truly believe that, supply a list of all of the teams that didn't win a game after December and still got in....

 

[RealTucoSalamanca]

What quality wins did OU pick up in non conference?

Wichita St in Wichita? Does Oregon in Portland count? Does USC in Los Angeles?

 

[RealTucoSalamanca]

it's insane they got in. st marys or usc would both crush them.

Except OU beat USC in LA, so there is that.

 

[big red23]

are you sure? Break it down for me.

No it is a cluster, because all of those loser teams lost to each other. That is why none of them deserve to be in, because not one of them could separate themselves from the rest of the pack. We did that and because of it, it caused our conference to look like ****

 

[Lamoni]

OU doesn't deserve to be in but the watered down B1G has really hurt us.

 

[RealTucoSalamanca]

No it is a cluster, because all of those loser teams lost to each other. That is why they none of them deserve to be in, because no a one of them could separate themselves from the rest of the pack. We did that and cause our conference to look like ****

Look at the non con records. One is 1 game under .500 against teams in the tournament and the other is 16 games under .500.

One league had one team with a losing record overall and one had 6.

One had 1 team that was more than 2 games under .500 in the league and on had 6.

So not only couldn’t the bottom of the B1G beat anyone good outside the league, they struggled against the decent teams inside the league.

Comparing the two leagues and it is night and day.

 

[CheeseRunza_rivals]

Kansas 4-1
Texas Tech 1-1
West Virginia 2-2
Kansas St 0-1
TCU 3-0
Oklahoma St 1-3
Texas 2-3
Oklahoma 1-2
Baylor 2-3
Iowa St 0-2

16-17 at first glance

10 teams versus 14 teams.

6 more wins and 3 less games. Scheduling matters

At first look, I think I saw that 3 of those wins were against Texas Southern (RPI 222) another against Lipscomb (RPI 103) and I think I saw one against Charleston (RPI 57). There might be more. I not sure you could count those as quality wins for the conference, unless you mean scheduling matters when a team can schedule a guaranteed win against an eventual minor conference champion with an automatic bid to the dance. I think it might be better to compare the quad 1 wins or maybe even head to head matchups. The results may point to the same conclusion, but I think it would be better to take out games against outmatched opponents to try to get an apples to apples comparison.

 

[RealTucoSalamanca]

At first look, I think I saw that 3 of those wins were against Texas Southern (RPI 222) another against Lipscomb (RPI 103) and I think I saw one against Charleston (RPI 57). There might be more. I not sure you could count those as quality wins for the conference, unless you mean scheduling matters when a team can schedule a guaranteed win against an eventual minor conference champion with an automatic bid to the dance. I think it might be better to compare the quad 1 wins or maybe even head to head matchups. The results may point to the same conclusion, but I think it would be better to take out games against outmatched opponents to try to get an apples to apples comparison.

Then I have to take those same wins away from the Big Ten teams. I don't even think I counted the Lipscomb game or the Charleston game. I did count Texas Southern.

 

[RealTucoSalamanca]

At first look, I think I saw that 3 of those wins were against Texas Southern (RPI 222) another against Lipscomb (RPI 103) and I think I saw one against Charleston (RPI 57). There might be more. I not sure you could count those as quality wins for the conference, unless you mean scheduling matters when a team can schedule a guaranteed win against an eventual minor conference champion with an automatic bid to the dance. I think it might be better to compare the quad 1 wins or maybe even head to head matchups. The results may point to the same conclusion, but I think it would be better to take out games against outmatched opponents to try to get an apples to apples comparison.

what are you going to use as a guide to determine outmatched opponents? South Dakota St beat Iowa, should I remove that loss from the list?

I set the criteria as teams in the NCAA tournament. If you want to look at it from a different perspective and show me that my criteria is flawed, I invite you to do the research.

 

[CheeseRunza_rivals]

Then I have to take those same wins away from the Big Ten teams

Yes. I wasn't trying to make a point about the BIG vs the Big 12, just pointing out that using the tournament teams as the comparison dataset seems flawed to me because there are to many teams that are outmatched against the major conference teams.