Another sobering shot selection chart via Richie

[seansherm]

Cliff wasn’t a great offensive player but in single coverage down low he was able to finish. Same with MJ. EO presents no offensive threat at all unless wide open and even then he misses sometimes.

To me, the biggest improvement overall would simply be a lower percentage of our offensive possessions being off of side out (made baskets or free throws). That in itself would create more opportunities to score outside of the halfcourt sets which should translate into more success for any team other than the 2023-24 team which couldn’t finish lay ups

EO is shooting a higher % than Cliff did his last two years here and has a higher FT attempt rate. I'm not saying feeding EO more would be the answer, but kind of feel like if we gave EO the touches Cliff got, the numbers wouldn't be much different. Maybe he becomes less efficient, who knows. Cliff took twice as many shots because we fed him. We don't feed EO at all. Miles barely took more shots than EO, might have accounted for one more basket per 40.

 

[RU-ROCS]

No - maybe that was true in past seasons, but this year it has nothing to do with the schemes. Tariq Francis is a 5 foot 10 guard and he is our biggest threat by far to put the ball through the net in the paint or draw a foul at the rim. Lino Mark (similar height) is probably our second biggest threat. We have no inside game to speak of outside of of guard dribble penetration. This makes us very easy to defend on the perimeter no matter what scheme a coach cooks up.

Not that it really mattered against Minnesota. Minnesota was content to limit Tariq in the paint. He got his from 3 in 5 attempts. They also let the other 2 PGs shoot 3s and Lino and J Mike went 3-3. The problem was the rest of the team went 1-9. The thing is, even if Zrno jacked up another 6 threes, he’s only making 2 more if he shoots his average. This isn’t exactly a coaching failure as the game outcome wasn’t changing.

I get what you're saying but you are missing my point that Pike has recruited this team that does not fit the modern offense. Plus, you say in this game MN was giving RU the 3 point line and RU was making 3's, yet the chart shows that RU nonetheless continued to jack up too many mid range misses. Coaching definitely played a roll in that.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

I get what you're saying but you are missing my point that Pike has recruited this team that does not fit the modern offense. Plus, you say in this game MN was giving RU the 3 point line and RU was making 3's, yet the chart shows that RU nonetheless continued to jack up too many mid range misses. Coaching definitely played a roll in that.

No - I’m not saying they gave the 3 point line in general. They allowed our PGs who are good penetrators to take 3s. Mark made more 3s in that game than he had the entire rest of the season (including one with like 20 seconds left in a blow out game). Besides that, they let Tariq shoot them. The two guys who are the biggest penetrators. It makes sense. Minn can not afford to foul playing only 6 guys. It was smart. They gave the the two of them space to launch 8 threes and we hit on 5 of them. But that allowed them to contain dribble penetration and avoid fouling. The rest of our team went 2-10 from 3. Denis was left wide open on his two attempts (not surprising since he’s a brick) but most were well covered.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

EO is shooting a higher % than Cliff did his last two years here and has a higher FT attempt rate. I'm not saying feeding EO more would be the answer, but kind of feel like if we gave EO the touches Cliff got, the numbers wouldn't be much different. Maybe he becomes less efficient, who knows. Cliff took twice as many shots because we fed him. We don't feed EO at all. Miles barely took more shots than EO, might have accounted for one more basket per 40.

Sorry, but no. Cliff was way more efficient than EO when we weren’t trying to use him as a go to guy. In 2021-22 he scored 12 ppg as a complimentary player on 62.4% shooting. The season before that he made 63.2% of his shots putting up 4 ppg backing up MJ who made 62.8% of his shots and scored 8 ppg.

Cliff’s efficiency dropped materially when we started to feed him in the paint. I’m not suggesting we’re going to look to do this. I highly doubt we get someone where we’d want to make them a go to.

But you can only compare EO to MJ and Cliff up until 2021-22 because EO would and should never be used as a go to. Your logic that he would put up more at the same efficiency is completely flawed. If we fed him down low his efficiency would be in the 40s. And that’s even being kind. Cliff clearly wasn’t all that good at it but EO has no potential whatsoever (he has no post moves at all). 54.3% is horrendous metric for a Big man who only shoots when wide open. It’s awful. And he’s scoring 4 ppg as our primary BIG not our back up. Our back up is scoring 2 ppg.

And oh yeah - another thing your not factoring in is that Cliff fielded alley-oop passes cleanly and probably was one of the most efficient dunkers in the NCAA. In contrast, EO barely gets any dunk opportunities because most of the time he bobbles the pass and it’s either a turnover or we have to kick it out. That’s not showing up as miss attempts of course in your paper analysis either.

 

[seansherm]

Sorry, but no. Cliff was way more efficient than EO when we weren’t trying to use him as a go to guy. In 2021-22 he scored 12 ppg as a complimentary player on 62.4% shooting. The season before that he made 63.2% of his shots putting up 4 ppg backing up MJ who made 62.8% of his shots and scored 8 ppg.

Cliff’s efficiency dropped materially when we started to feed him in the paint. I’m not suggesting we’re going to look to do this. I highly doubt we get someone where we’d want to make them a go to.

But you can only compare EO to MJ and Cliff up until 2021-22 because EO would and should never be used as a go to. Your logic that he would put up more at the same efficiency is completely flawed. If we fed him down low his efficiency would be in the 40s. And that’s even being kind. Cliff clearly wasn’t all that good at it but EO has no potential whatsoever (he has no post moves at all). 54.3% is horrendous metric for a Big man who only shoots when wide open. It’s awful. And he’s scoring 4 ppg as our primary BIG not our back up. Our back up is scoring 2 ppg.

And oh yeah - another thing your not factoring in is that Cliff fielded alley-oop passes cleanly and probably was one of the most efficient dunkers in the NCAA. In contrast, EO barely gets any dunk opportunities because most of the time he bobbles the pass and it’s either a turnover or we have to kick it out. That’s not showing up as miss attempts of course in your paper analysis either.

And much of Cliffs efficiency came from guards getting him dunks.
The comparisons are dumb either way as Cliff also always had a much better team around him. If EO had Mulcahy drawing double teams to throw the ball to the rim we may see different #'s.
Both are centers don't touch the ball, and amazingly Dortch is even less willing to shoot. I'm not in disagreement that our centers are bad, I'm just saying we dont even use them except 4 or 5 times a game. EO has taken more than 6 shots twice in his time here, Cliff took more than 6 twenty times his sophomore year. We use them completely different.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

And much of Cliffs efficiency came from guards getting him dunks.
The comparisons are dumb either way as Cliff also always had a much better team around him. If EO had Mulcahy drawing double teams to throw the ball to the rim we may see different #'s.
Both are centers don't touch the ball, and amazingly Dortch is even less willing to shoot. I'm not in disagreement that our centers are bad, I'm just saying we dont even use them except 4 or 5 times a game. EO has taken more than 6 shots twice in his time here, Cliff took more than 6 twenty times his sophomore year. We use them completely different.

Come on. EO can’t catch a lob pass.

 

[seansherm]

Come on. EO can’t catch a lob pass.

We'll never know