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Another huge miss by Cal in CJ Frederick

TrueBluePhil

TrueBluePhil

All-Conference
Nov 27, 2010
1,013
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Cal's record on utilizing KY players is abysmal. The last 5 years or so he could have and used these kids to achieve balance in his team but he refused to do this. Fredrick started all 25 games as a freshman last season. He led the Big Ten in 3-point percentage (.461) and averaged 10.2 points per game. Fredrick was the only player from a major conference since 1993 with at least 65 assists, 32 or fewer turnovers and 46% or better shooting from 3-point range. He went to Covington Catholic. What a huge miss by Cal
 
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U

UK90

Heisman
Dec 30, 2007
31,460
27,816
0
BlueCat#8 said:
Cal's record on utilizing KY players is abysmal. The last 5 years or so he could have and used these kids to achieve balance in his team but he refused to do this. Fredrick started all 25 games as a freshman last season. He led the Big Ten in 3-point percentage (.461) and averaged 10.2 points per game. Fredrick was the only player from a major conference since 1993 with at least 65 assists, 32 or fewer turnovers and 46% or better shooting from 3-point range. He went to Covington Catholic. What a huge miss by Cal
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Well, technically, Frederick is an Ohio kid. He’s from Cincinnati, but he did go to high school on the Kentucky side of the river.
 
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JHannibalSmith

JHannibalSmith

All-American
Sep 28, 2006
2,530
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ralphdaltonfan said:
I side with Cal here-he's RS, been injured the last 2 years with leg injuries where he's missed games, and at end of year he didn't play well due to it. Availability matters and coming off the worst season in UK history, you can't afford to have a guy come in and miss games.
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I agree with you here, generally. If we had a full & well balanced roster this wouldn’t bother me at all. And, it’s still not a devastating loss or anything. But, Cal leaves 2-3 roster spots open every year. Would it really be a huge deal if Frederick missed some time here & there since he would’ve been taking a roster spot that wouldn’t be used, otherwise? Everything he would’ve contributed would’ve just been gravy.

Getting Grady was a great start but we still have a serious lack of perimeter shooting. If Mintz doesn’t return then Allen & Grady are the only reliable shooters we have. And, we’re only getting one year of Grady. Frederick is a 2-3 year, high end specialist. I don’t mean for that to sound like it’s an either/or situation. Frederick wouldn’t take any minutes from Grady & there’s no reason they couldn’t coexist together. EVERY team needs role players & there should always be room for a guy who shoots 46% from 3. ESPECIALLY when you don’t even use 2-3 scholarships every season.

Frederick could’ve been a very valuable bench piece for the next 2-3 years. Again, it’s not a catastrophe but it’s yet another shooter off the board & it’s frustrating watching them go elsewhere when shooting has always been an issue for Cal’s teams & this year was the zenith of that futility. I won’t lose any sleep over this but I seriously hope Cal isn’t done addressing the poor shooting issues. If Grady is the only shooter we add then the offseason is a fail, IMO.
 
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J

jessieshorts8

Heisman
Jun 2, 2019
5,256
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113
JHannibalSmith said:
I agree with you here, generally. If we had a full & well balanced roster this wouldn’t bother me at all. And, it’s still not a devastating loss or anything. But, Cal leaves 2-3 roster spots open every year. Would it really be a huge deal if Frederick missed some time here & there since he would’ve been taking a roster spot that wouldn’t be used, otherwise? Everything he would’ve contributed would’ve just been gravy.

Getting Grady was a great start but we still have a serious lack of perimeter shooting. If Mintz doesn’t return then Allen & Grady are the only reliable shooters we have. And, we’re only getting one year of Grady. Frederick is a 2-3 year, high end specialist. I don’t mean for that to sound like it’s an either/or situation. Frederick wouldn’t take any minutes from Grady & there’s no reason they couldn’t coexist together. EVERY team needs role players & there should always be room for a guy who shoots 46% from 3. ESPECIALLY when you don’t even use 2-3 scholarships every season.

Frederick could’ve been a very valuable bench piece for the next 3 years. Again, it’s not a catastrophe but it’s yet another shooter off the board & it’s frustrating watching them go elsewhere when shooting has always been an issue for Cal’s teams & this year was the zenith of that futility. I won’t lose any sleep over this but I seriously hope Cal isn’t done addressing the poor shooting issues. If Grady is the only shooter we add then the offseason is a fail, IMO.
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Especially since we seem to have injuries every season.
 
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R

RalphDaltonFan

Heisman
Apr 3, 2002
60,321
41,828
113
JHannibalSmith said:
I agree with you here, generally. If we had a full & well balanced roster this wouldn’t bother me at all. And, it’s still not a devastating loss or anything. But, Cal leaves 2-3 roster spots open every year. Would it really be a huge deal if Frederick missed some time here & there since he would’ve been taking a roster spot that wouldn’t be used, otherwise? Everything he would’ve contributed would’ve just been gravy.

Getting Grady was a great start but we still have a serious lack of perimeter shooting. If Mintz doesn’t return then Allen & Grady are the only reliable shooters we have. And, we’re only getting one year of Grady. Frederick is a 3 year, high end specialist. I don’t mean for that to sound like it’s an either/or situation. Frederick wouldn’t take any minutes from Grady & there’s no reason they couldn’t coexist together. EVERY team needs role players & there should always be room for a guy who shoots 46% from 3. ESPECIALLY when you don’t even use 2-3 scholarships every season.

Frederick could’ve been a very valuable bench piece for the next 3 years. Again, it’s not a catastrophe but it’s yet another shooter off the board & it’s frustrating watching them go elsewhere when shooting has always been an issue for Cal’s teams & this year was the zenith of that futility. I won’t lose any sleep over this but I seriously hope Cal isn’t done addressing the poor shooting issues. If Grady is the only shooter we add then the offseason is a fail, IMO.
Click to expand...
I have nothing against CJ Fredrick. I think he's a very good player and was the key player for Iowa. When he played and was healthy, they were the best version and played excellent basketball. But I'm not rolling the dice with a guy who hasn't been able to make it through a season 2 yrs in a row after redshirting. This program has the ability to attract many players and this portal is just started up--usually recruiting doesn't heat up until this upcoming week, and while portal is insanely large now, there will be more guys available. If you bring him in and he's hurt again, you've wasted time on a guy who showed he wasn't able to survive a CBB season 2 yrs in a row.

#1 move I'd make is dumping some dead weight off this staff and getting someone who could at least make Jaden Hardy think about Kentucky again. If that doesn't work--see if you can go get Patrick Baldwin Jr. I mean that's the program that Cal brought to Lexington and it's just not even conceivable by anyone to think it's possible and what has changed? Why has that changed? That's type of thinking and big game hunting you look for when you hire Cal and he delivered. The roster got a great player in Grady-love that move, but I want to see the big game hunting killer program that Cal restored rather than "we'll get who we get and that's fine-great kids....." which is coachspeak for it's okay if we don't land the best players. BS. That's not the Cal who took this job and not the HOF version I respect and got most out of his teams. He's in there somewhere....just wish he'd come back before he retires.
 
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JHannibalSmith

JHannibalSmith

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Sep 28, 2006
2,530
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ralphdaltonfan said:
I have nothing against CJ Fredrick. I think he's a very good player and was the key player for Iowa. When he played and was healthy, they were the best version and played excellent basketball. But I'm not rolling the dice with a guy who hasn't been able to make it through a season 2 yrs in a row after redshirting. This program has the ability to attract many players and this portal is just started up--usually recruiting doesn't heat up until this upcoming week, and while portal is insanely large now, there will be more guys available. If you bring him in and he's hurt again, you've wasted time on a guy who showed he wasn't able to survive a CBB season 2 yrs in a row.

#1 move I'd make is dumping some dead weight off this staff and getting someone who could at least make Jaden Hardy think about Kentucky again. If that doesn't work--see if you can go get Patrick Baldwin Jr. I mean that's the program that Cal brought to Lexington and it's just not even conceivable by anyone to think it's possible and what has changed? Why has that changed? That's type of thinking and big game hunting you look for when you hire Cal and he delivered. The roster got a great player in Grady-love that move, but I want to see the big game hunting killer program that Cal restored rather than "we'll get who we get and that's fine-great kids....." which is coachspeak for it's okay if we don't land the best players. BS. That's not the Cal who took this job and not the HOF version I respect and got most out of his teams. He's in there somewhere....just wish he'd come back before he retires.
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I agree with everything you said. The ONLY reason I would’ve taken a chance is bc that scholarship will most likely go unused. I don’t see the harm in taking a chance when you have the extra roster space. If we only had 1-2 rides to give I wouldn’t even give it a 2nd thought.
 
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R

RalphDaltonFan

Heisman
Apr 3, 2002
60,321
41,828
113
JHannibalSmith said:
I agree with everything you said. The ONLY reason I would’ve taken a chance is bc that scholarship will most likely go unused. I don’t see the harm in taking a chance when you have the extra roster space. If we only had 1-2 rides to give I wouldn’t even give it a 2nd thought.
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I agree with your point. It's smart to maximize the roster space allotted and it's where you take 1 developmental guy who realizes he's not going to play much if at all as a FR, and will be a program player. The Dom Hawkins/Derek Willis guys were guys who would've played more at other places but stayed, had roles (Dom in '14 was forgotten about but played a lot in NCAA Tournament) and they expanded each year.

I'd also recruit the South more where you get guys who have elite traits but need polish for those roles along with a shooter who maybe needs to get stronger to adjust but can shoot the lights out. Thing is you have a hard time in this era of convincing guys to fit that role when they can go somewhere else and get minutes.
 
J

JC CATS

Heisman
Jun 18, 2009
23,517
12,221
0
It was known Cal couldn't recruit when he came here. Has he ever recruited as well as Tubby, Billy G, Joe Hall, ...wait a minute
 
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seccats04

seccats04

Heisman
Dec 6, 2004
14,672
23,901
113
ralphdaltonfan said:
I side with Cal here-he's RS, been injured the last 2 years with leg injuries where he's missed games, and at end of year he didn't play well due to it. Availability matters and coming off the worst season in UK history, you can't afford to have a guy come in and miss games.
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He would’ve given us more than Clarke, who only pretended to be injured.
 
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K

KingOfBBN

Heisman
Sep 14, 2013
39,077
38,403
0
Hollingsworth, David Johnson, Frederick are the type of role players you need to go with your top tier talent. That’s how you get guys like Miller, Hawkins, and Willis to make impacts for teams making deep tournament runs.

These are complimentary pieces you need yet Cal doesn’t give a crap.
 
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J

JonathanW_rivals

Heisman
Jan 3, 2003
145,534
15,709
0
Somebody, look up in the past 10 years how many KY kids went to a major D1 conference, and how many of those performed at a level good enough that he would have contributed at least as much as Hawkins or Willis did?

I would guess, maybe 30 in 10 years, and of those 5-6 developed into someone who could’ve played at UK.
 
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Catluv

All-Conference
Dec 18, 2018
3,546
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The kid probably wouldn’t like riding the pine. He is decent but no program changer. We can’t get a second tier player to wait his chance. JJ and Matthew are a couple of guys that would of helped if they stayed around.
 
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bucsrule8872

Heisman
May 30, 2005
24,397
29,352
0
Hollingsworth was the bigger miss, IMHO.

He was not just from the state, he was from Lexington.

He also ended up being a four year starter and double digit scorer for WKU.

I think he could have been a valuable member of our program and he would have only costed us an extra scholarship which isn’t much for a Coach that never has more than 11 scholarship players on his roster.
 
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U

UKRuppster

All-Conference
Apr 14, 2018
2,111
2,090
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Catluv said:
We can’t get a second tier player to wait his chance. JJ and Matthew are a couple of guys that would of helped if they stayed around.
Click to expand...

This would be my worry with someone like Fredrick as well. It'd be awesome to have his shooting prowess off the bench, but would he be happy with a bench role early at UK when he's getting 25-30 minutes a game and a starting role at Iowa? I don't doubt that he likely would have taken a UK offer had he gotten one, but I'm sure he thinks things worked out for the best going to Iowa and getting major minutes there instead of getting maybe 10 or 15 minutes coming off the bench at UK.
 
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TortElvisII

TortElvisII

Heisman
May 7, 2010
51,700
96,942
66
OmahaCats said:
He’s probably going to use up 11 or 12 scholarships. Hardly anyone fills all 13. It’s good to keep 1 open on case you get an opportunity to add someone mod season
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1?

He's left a lot more than one open in the past.
 
AllBall

AllBall

All-American
May 5, 2015
4,923
6,484
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We need to recruit the best KY players because they're more likely to stick around and help build the roster/program. Kids from KY consider it a great honor to play here and relish the opportunity.
Bottom line it just makes it easier to assemble a contending roster when you add a few KY recruits. By the time they've been here a couple years it gives us good college experienced players. Sprinkle in some carry over 4 stars and target a couple elite freshmen and you have the makings of a nice team.
 
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M

MNantz

Heisman
Dec 20, 2001
9,086
11,921
98
BlueCat#8 said:
Cal's record on utilizing KY players is abysmal. The last 5 years or so he could have and used these kids to achieve balance in his team but he refused to do this. Fredrick started all 25 games as a freshman last season. He led the Big Ten in 3-point percentage (.461) and averaged 10.2 points per game. Fredrick was the only player from a major conference since 1993 with at least 65 assists, 32 or fewer turnovers and 46% or better shooting from 3-point range. He went to Covington Catholic. What a huge miss by Cal
Click to expand...
Yet another silly post
 
T

TheOtherGreatOne

All-Conference
Feb 5, 2003
3,005
3,365
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That one year he had to leave enough open scollies so his superstar great athletic super shooting son could get some playing time. You know the one that had a tatoo on his chest that said earned not given.
 
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W

wldctky_rivals70430

All-Conference
Jan 20, 2002
7,844
1,082
0
BlueCat#8 said:
Cal's record on utilizing KY players is abysmal. The last 5 years or so he could have and used these kids to achieve balance in his team but he refused to do this. Fredrick started all 25 games as a freshman last season. He led the Big Ten in 3-point percentage (.461) and averaged 10.2 points per game. Fredrick was the only player from a major conference since 1993 with at least 65 assists, 32 or fewer turnovers and 46% or better shooting from 3-point range. He went to Covington Catholic. What a huge miss by Cal
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HUGE MISS? LOL
 
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yoshukai

yoshukai

Heisman
Dec 21, 2002
30,270
43,162
102
ralphdaltonfan said:
I have nothing against CJ Fredrick. I think he's a very good player and was the key player for Iowa. When he played and was healthy, they were the best version and played excellent basketball. But I'm not rolling the dice with a guy who hasn't been able to make it through a season 2 yrs in a row after redshirting. This program has the ability to attract many players and this portal is just started up--usually recruiting doesn't heat up until this upcoming week, and while portal is insanely large now, there will be more guys available. If you bring him in and he's hurt again, you've wasted time on a guy who showed he wasn't able to survive a CBB season 2 yrs in a row.

#1 move I'd make is dumping some dead weight off this staff and getting someone who could at least make Jaden Hardy think about Kentucky again. If that doesn't work--see if you can go get Patrick Baldwin Jr. I mean that's the program that Cal brought to Lexington and it's just not even conceivable by anyone to think it's possible and what has changed? Why has that changed? That's type of thinking and big game hunting you look for when you hire Cal and he delivered. The roster got a great player in Grady-love that move, but I want to see the big game hunting killer program that Cal restored rather than "we'll get who we get and that's fine-great kids....." which is coachspeak for it's okay if we don't land the best players. BS. That's not the Cal who took this job and not the HOF version I respect and got most out of his teams. He's in there somewhere....just wish he'd come back before he retires.
Click to expand...
I’m pretty sure sure WWW not helping Cal is what has changed. We won’t be getting players like Hardy and Baldwin anymore .
 
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