Another COVID thread - can someone explain to me...

[00Dawg]

the logic that says a lack of healthcare access leads to getting COVID-19?

I'm seeing a number of politicians and celebrities and even some media making this case. Note that they are not addressing a higher mortality rate or severity of cases: they are specifically saying that a lack of healthcare in some areas is causing higher case rates.

 

[57stratdawg]

I could see individuals without health insurance being less likely to work from home. Thus, exposing them more.

correlation vs causation

 

[mcdawg22]

Celebrities just need to eat it.
https://youtu.be/AYGCpqAvoCs

 

[goodknight]

Another bunch of crap to attempt to get a universal single payer government mandated healthcare system and raise your taxes. Just about every government run universal system is or has failed while significantly raising taxes to pay. They always like to point out European countries as examples but never their tax rate and the fact those that can go outside the system to get services.

2018,single worker with no children earning a nation’s average wage was 35.8 percent in Denmark, 35.9 percent in Norway, and 43.0 percent in Sweden. Although Denmark and Norway are below the OECD average of 36.1 percent, their tax wedges—and Sweden’s—are higher than the U.S. tax wedge of 29.6 percent. Germany tax rates are 42% for single payer making over US $62000.

Now tell me if you want a government controlled and mandated system that is RATIONED and in the vast majority of cases substandard to what most individuals have access to in the US.

 

[Felonious Junk]

I could be wrong but I’m assuming they mean less affluent parts of our society have less access to healthcare leading to generally unhealthy groups of people which in turn makes you more susceptible to disease.

So it’s not that they get covid because they currently have less access to healthcare, it’s because they have no access in the past making them more unhealthy as a group.

 

[OldFatDog]

the logic that says a lack of healthcare access leads to getting COVID-19?

I'm seeing a number of politicians and celebrities and even some media making this case. Note that they are not addressing a higher mortality rate or severity of cases: they are specifically saying that a lack of healthcare in some areas is causing higher case rates.

One out of three uninsured people work in service industries which leads to increased contact with people. So they are exposed at a much higher rate and, then, expose others at a much higher rate. Also, uninsured people are less likely to seek medical testing or treatment than are insured people. The result is that, even after the appearance of symptoms, more people will be exposed by uninsured people than insured people. The grocery store clerk doesn’t have insurance typically as their hours are limited to part-time. They have no choice but to continue to work as they are not eligible for unemployment. Tough situation for the uninsured and impacts us all.

 

[Leeshouldveflanked]

I would invite every celebrity worth over 5Million to put 75% of all of their money into Obamacare. They need to put their money where their mouth is...Lebron James is worth $500 Million, he could put $400 Million into Obamacare and still have $100 Million left over...that’s like all of these people that say they should pay more taxes... they could if they wanted to, The US Treasury will take it... Warren Buffett is worth 67 Billion... if he believes everyone should pay more taxes, he could voluntary pay 60 Billion and have 7 Billion left over.

 

[dorndawg]

Great job pointing out just how morally bankrupt our healthcare insurance system is.

 

[tenureplan]

Poor people's only choice for healthcare is the ER.

 

[codeDawg]

Another bunch of crap to attempt to get a universal single payer government mandated healthcare system and raise your taxes. Just about every government run universal system is or has failed while significantly raising taxes to pay. They always like to point out European countries as examples but never their tax rate and the fact those that can go outside the system to get services.

2018,single worker with no children earning a nation’s average wage was 35.8 percent in Denmark, 35.9 percent in Norway, and 43.0 percent in Sweden. Although Denmark and Norway are below the OECD average of 36.1 percent, their tax wedges—and Sweden’s—are higher than the U.S. tax wedge of 29.6 percent. Germany tax rates are 42% for single payer making over US $62000.

Now tell me if you want a government controlled and mandated system that is RATIONED and in the vast majority of cases substandard to what most individuals have access to in the US.

So I’m not really for a single payer system, but you should tack on the 20-30% of income people pay in the US for healthcare with that tax rate. In the US, somewhere in the neighborhood of 50% of the average persons income go to the combination of taxes and healthcare.

 

[DAWG61]

Healthcare in America is so 17ing broken. Millionaire doctors charging millions to everyone else when they get sick. Morally repugnant system that 100% of the Trumptard cult is totally in love with.

 

[jack daniels dog]

I so yearn for sports. Maybe this board will become readable again. I always suspected I would disagree politically with State fans. I just never realized how many.

 

[00Dawg]

You might could get away with correlation on that argument. It's not....

causation for COVID. Your argument would have to be that if we gave more service industry workers insurance, there would be more healthcare accessible to them because the healthcare industry would build more facilities where there was more money.

That's a decent argument in some urban areas, but dies in rural ones.

 

[00Dawg]

But you contracting COVID isn't based on your health.

We know it's more fatal based on certain health issues, but I was specifically leaving that out because it wasn't part of the reasoning being given.

You might be able to make an argument that the symptoms are worse in those with underlying health issues, which would drive them to get tested, leading to an artificially higher positive test rate.

 

[Uncle Ruckus]

So not only are you a defensive, typical liberal, you like using super offensive, ignorant words. The word you used to describe trump is just as offensive as the n word or any other derogatory term towards a group of people. I can’t believe youre not an Ole Miss fan. I would say I can’t believe you’re not a state grad, but someone as 17ing dumb as you couldn’t have a degree.
You are a giant piece of ****.

 

[DAWG61]

Cry me a river snowflake. Trumptard is a play off the word "libtard" that was started by Trump voters just like yourself. Hypocrite. But I already knew that.

 

[mount lefroy]

I am confused at your question. It's fairly obvious tht someone with healthcare and gets treated for a suspected condition, will then take precautions to not transmit a virus. It is also obvious that someone that doesnt have healthcare and therefore doesnt go to a doctor will not know if they have a communicable virus and inadvertantly spread it more frequently than someone who does know they have it.

But I may have misunderstood your question.

 

[00Dawg]

Okay, so your argument is...

that if testing is easily accessible, you can slow the spread. That's fairly logical.
It doesn't address what's actually being said though, as the case rate is specifically being used to push things like why more rural hospitals are needed (I've seen this one several times).

Well, you don't need a hospital to do testing. There's literally roving test units in some places.

I will admit that info may move the goal posts a little on the argument, although that wasn't my intention.

 

[OldFatDog]

causation for COVID. Your argument would have to be that if we gave more service industry workers insurance, there would be more healthcare accessible to them because the healthcare industry would build more facilities where there was more money.

That's a decent argument in some urban areas, but dies in rural ones.

I’m not making any particular argument. Simply addressing your question. High percentage of uninsured people work in the service industry which directly causes much higher exposure. Higher exposure rates leads to higher percentage of getting coronavirus. I thought you asked for an explanation.

 

[Hugh's Burner Phone]

Healthcare in America is so 17ing broken. Millionaire doctors charging millions to everyone else when they get sick. Morally repugnant system that 100% of the Trumptard cult is totally in love with.

Feel free not to use it and boycott those evil doctors.

 

[mount lefroy]

Healthcare in America is so 17ing broken. Millionaire doctors charging millions to everyone else when they get sick. Morally repugnant system that 100% of the Trumptard cult is totally in love with.

With regard to healthcare : Between doctors, lawyers, insurance companies and politicians, doctors are the least culpable.

 

[mount lefroy]

that if testing is easily accessible, you can slow the spread. That's fairly logical.
It doesn't address what's actually being said though, as the case rate is specifically being used to push things like why more rural hospitals are needed (I've seen this one several times).

Well, you don't need a hospital to do testing. There's literally roving test units in some places.

I will admit that info may move the goal posts a little on the argument, although that wasn't my intention.

Id say that there are areas that need better access to healthcare. But a completely different problem is that it is in all of our interests that every human being have healthcare. Same as fire protection. My house burning down affects my neighbor. Me getting sick affects my neighbor.

Total number of cases in Mississippi doesnt tell the story. It's very difficult to compare that number to other areas that arent equal in population density per square mile or larger populations. I compare case incident rates which is per 100k people tested. Yes that leaves out the untested, but nothing can be concluded about the untested positive or negative.

 

[T-TownDawgg]

Keep in mind, I dare to say a lot of the stupid **** a bunch of the idiots on this board type would never be verbally said to your face at a tailgate for fear of the ever present danger of logic they couldn't simply click away from or downvote without discussion

 

[Shamoan]

New York is notorious for their poor healthcare and general lack or resources ***

 

[Shamoan]

Expensive =\= broken. Get a grip. Fact is, you could have zero health insurance, impale yourself on rebar and not have to pay a cent for doctors putting you back together. That’s part of why it’s expensive for those of us that play by the rules.

 

[DAWG61]

Keep in mind, I dare to say a lot of the stupid **** a bunch of the idiots on this board type would never be verbally said to your face at a tailgate for fear of the ever present danger of logic they couldn't simply click away from or downvote without discussion

Yup bunch of keyboard warriors on social media these days

[tweet]1261126114799468549[/tweet]

 

[Felonious Junk]

Contracting covid isn’t based on your health status but having severe symptoms is absolutely connected to a poor health status.

 

[HailStout]

Thank you. The evil doctor stereotype drives me insane.

 

[RocketDawg]

I think you'll change your tune when one of those "millionaire" saves your life or the life of someone close to you. All doctors are not millionaires, in fact, most are not. Med school is expensive (loans), specialty school is expensive (more loans), residents get paid next to nothing, they have to pay their staffs, equipment is outrageously expensive, and on and on. There are, of course, exceptions - some doctors make a fortune. I don't have any problem with them making a good living considering how important they are.

 

[DAWG61]

Med school is expensive (loans), specialty school is expensive (more loans), residents get paid next to nothing, they have to pay their staffs, equipment is outrageously expensive, and on and on.

Sounds like a broken system. I'm not at all implying doctors are evil like someone hinted at earlier. I'm implying the entire healthcare system in America is totally 17ed. How anyone can disagree with that is ridiculous. It shouldn't take bankrupting an entire family so that grandma can hopefully be saved from cancer.

 

[T-TownDawgg]

Ironically, I was referring to the likes of you. And, then for emphasis, you imbed a President "Trumptard" (your words) twitter quote to make your point in smooth "meme style". Rich.

 

[MedDawg]

Healthcare in America is so 17ing broken. Millionaire doctors charging millions to everyone else when they get sick. Morally repugnant system that 100% of the Trumptard cult is totally in love with.

Wow, you don't know what the 17 you're talking about.

 

[JungRebel]

I share your concerns but I also have concerns about people having health insurance tied to their employment. It's a great benefit, yes, but I have friends who went to school to get much better jobs than i have but, due to this pandemic, are out of work, insurance, and still have loans to pay off. One just moved his family from tennessee to oregon, bought a house and all. Unemployment is fine for now especially with the extra $600 but that is a LOT to lose almost at once through no fault of your own.

We have millions of people who just lost their health insurance amid a global pandemic. They lost their job too. I'm not saying go single payer now or ever, but how much better is it to instead have a **** ton of people added to Medicaid or Medicare during a situation like this?

I have no suggestions on how to improve it. I didnt get into any of these industries nor government, but this situation is why we have government in the first place (scenarios that individuals or communities cannot solve by themselves). Unfortunately I have no faith in ours to either fix this or create something better, a belief that i assume is not uncommon.

 

[johnson86-1]

With regard to healthcare : Between doctors, lawyers, insurance companies and politicians, doctors are the least culpable.

Doctors lobby for economic protectionism. They are less culpable than politicians but just as culpable as insurance companies and more culpable than lawyers. As bad as lawyers can be, they haven’t successfully used the government to insure that the number of lawyers grows much more slowly than the population.

 

[Chuck Yeager]

With regard to healthcare : Between doctors, lawyers, insurance companies and politicians, doctors are the least culpable.

I wouldn't throw all doctors in there together, but the AMA doesn't always have patients' best interests at heart and big Pharma certainly doesn't.

You can really probably significantly thank Medicare/Medicaid for our system now. As with anything, when the Govt gets heavily involved prices will skyrocket as years go by. See Govt backed student loans vs cost of college education today.

The Govt is quite good at over-regulating things that don't need much regulating or coming in to "assist" poor folks with health insurance (like Medicaid/Medicare) and college tuition, and then being hands off on things that do need tight regulations ... like banking and '08 crisis (but they did back a lot of those mortgages, just like they back student loans. Gotta protect those bankers). The combination of those things help Congressmen & Senators retire so very wealthy.

Helping po folks always sounds good but always turns out to where even a pretty large percentage of middle class folks can't afford what they used to could, so po folks really screwed then.

 

[Irondawg]

Amazing how threads get off the original question.

The answer is simply it doesn’t but it’s a small minded attempt to explain something they see happening and then it gets twisted for political reasons.

As mentioned below, poor areas higher rates can be explained by a few things:

1) most work in areas where they can’t work from home.

2) much more likely to use public transportation

3) might be more likely to live in denser population centers (apartments, etc)

4) more likely to have more people(roommates, extended family) living in smaller spaces

5) less likely to follow guidelines. There is a decent % of that population that is poor because of inability to make good decisions. That group is less likely to read the news.

6) less access to resources like help with childcare outside day care and access to masks make them take more chances

“Lack of Access to healthcare” I don’t think is a viable answer.

Even if you try and wind back the clock and say they have more pre-existing conditions because of lack of healthcare I’m not sure how valid that would be either.

 

[WilCoDawg]

As is the US period. No one in the entire world ever comes here for medical procedures due to our horrible and inaccessible healthcare system.***
Is it perfect? No. Is it the best option? Oh yeaaaaah.