An Olive Branch...

[Mojocat_rivals48469]

2 years ago the coach of Kentucky had to ask fans to start coming to games at Rupp. Has that happened in your lifetime?

That was well before kneeling and if we aren't selling out Rupp, then what number defines significant?

I don't understand where you are drawing your conclusions

First, and I've told you this before, I really appreciate the way you post. You're able to articulate your point of view, get your point across, and not call the person you're talking to an idiot. heh. Seems simple, but is rare in 2021.

Second, I'm drawing conclusions just from observations made, which are only as sound as the person making them, so I could be out in left field.

But I understood the "previous" issues with attendance in accordance with the context/conversations that were happening at the time. And that was all about the changing habits of Americans, including Kentuckians. Among the issues cited: It costs too much to attend a game; everyone has a big screen by now, and it's simply easier to stay home; the home schedule leaves something to be desired. Etc. Only the last one had anything to do with Cal, at all - the rest of it was just America in the 21st century. I mean, LSU, Oklahoma, Auburn, etc - they were all taking seats out of their football stadiums (Kentucky, too) to accommodate smaller home crowds. I recall threads on this forum about the future of Rupp Arena, and whether in 10, 20, 50 years we'd even be able to recognize a "home crowd". I don't remember anyone saying anything about attendance decreasing because of OAD fatigue. I don't really remember OAD fatigue becoming a thing, anyway, until 2018, probably (the year when we first lost guys who weren't lottery players, but were 2nd rounders, including one guy who didn't play most of the year in fishy seeming circumstances).

Today? Yeah, what was a low-level OAD grumble in 2018 is now a fairly loud chorus. Still. Again - just based on conversations I've had with folks day to day, so it might be worthless - the people I talk to who say "I'm done!" always cite the kneeling thing.

 

[ala_kat2]

I dont think Toppin or Brooks is the type of player that can lead us back to prominence , that simply are not that good . Nice players , but not UK elite at all.

I think Toppin has some growth in his game, but I agree on Brooks. Brooks is a good back-up and a semi-solid performer, but we need a better option. I hope both return as well.

 

[TankedCat]

no doubt the kneeling thing has caused issues with fans. I personally feel it was just a bad decision on Cal's part given the type of season he has, and him not taking stock of just where he was in the goodwill department of the fanbase. He simply didn't have the goodwill capital to do that in the midst of the worst season in UK's history. If Cal doesn't make it past next year, people will cite that as one of the reasons for his departure, regardless of how people feel about the act of kneeling itself.

The issue was his judgement in participating as a representative of the state of Kentucky.

That said, there are also issues with UK pricing the typical fan out of the game, but lets look at this year - Cal was upset with the fans for pushing him to schedule "real" teams on the schedule, and Cal has intentionally watered down the Rupp schedule so that fans attending games will rarely get to see marquee matchups. No home and home with UNC, IU, or Duke - and honestly, in the past few seasons we're losing to these teams for the most part anyways.

While we can point to external factors, I don't think anyone can argue that Cal took for granted the rabid fanbase would continue to support the program regardless of the changes he implemented - and in turn the fans just don't want to buy $80 tickets to see UK play bad fundamental basketball with players on the court they can't even name against teams that have players who will be playing church league basketball in 4 years

Why would anyone blame fans for losing interest?

I would argue that Rupp would still sell out if (and consequently fan interest would not be waning)
1. UK played more marquee teams in November /December with home and home series including IU.
2. UK actually wins those games while playing solid fundamental basketball
3. UK has players the fans can connect with and provides them with continuity with the team year over year.

You give me those 3 things in Rupp and I bet Kentucky doesn't have a fan apathy problem.

But instead we've allowed Cal to sell us on creating the easiest path possible to get his 5 star wonderkids ready to actually play real college basketball teams in March.
The season is 5 months long, Cal cares about 2 weeks of it...and one night in June

And as a result, our fanbase has lost what I would call a significant number of fans. They aren't out on the streets with torches and pitchforks like the kneeling outrage people are, but I bet their numbers are higher. They've simply tuned out. There are no more Kyle Macy, Kenny Walker, Chuck Hayes UK players anymore.

And why should I watch a team I have no connection with play horrible basketball and lose to Evansville? Oh, they beat South Carolina in late February. OK, great. I might watch the highlights on Youtube if I have time.

When Cal came here he was willing to play anyone, anytime. UK would take your heart. Now he's scared to play anyone and pretty salty about being expected to do so - while being on the edge of losing the all time wins. What has happened to the program we love? I remember the pride I had of buying the UK2K shirt...that seems like a different program I followed now.

 

[yoshukai]

I know we all have been getting heated over this season and our perceptions of Calipari as the head coach, his being paid huge amounts of money to have the worst season in UK history, whether he should be bought out, whether he should fire assistants, how he should recruit, how he should run his offense and defense, and etc.

I'd like to focus on where we agree. We all love this program and want the best for it. We've experienced great times supporting this team and we want to see those times again. So, whatever it takes to return to prominence, that's what we want to see. I'm not married to Calipari, so I will promise you all that if things do not improve, I'll join you in asking him to go.

I know some of you may not be willing to give him that chance and I've accepted that. But I will support him in that effort.

I think the beginning of Cal fixing this thing begins with retaining players. We can't have a mass exodus here, not after this season. That's the first test, in my opinion. Let's see where we stand when the dust settles on this season. if we're left with no roster and another roster from scratch, the talk of change becomes very empty. I guess we'll see.

After player retention I think his biggest problem is the offense we run . When you have nba scouts saying it was hard to evaluate BJ Boston because of the antiquated offense he was stuck in , that says a lot and will definitely be used against us on the recruiting front.

 

[Wildcats1st]

No offense but you’ve been a pretty harsh critic of those critical of John Calipari. I’m not sure what this thread does exactly? All of these topics were covered in the other thread where you were upset/ insulting other members. They are also all covered in a slew of other threads already.

Yes, we all agree that we want Kentucky basketball to be successful but, as many have stated a plethora of times with facts, numbers and examples the program is on a downward trajectory and Calipari is showing absolutely no signs of adapting or changing. For some reason tho, those who defend Calipari so staunchly seem to take others opinions very very personally.

I hope like hell that John Calipari can get UK back to the promised land but his entire model is incredibly broken, he is no longer getting the elites and he is simply unable to retain solid veterans.

I agree it’s too soon to be offering any “olive branches”. This season really isn’t even done yet until we know who leaves. Cal has spent the better part of the last 5-6 years as a divisive person and just spent this season torching uk fans on his way to massive losing. I look at the blind cal supporters as enablers of all he has felt empowered to do and done. He hasn’t changed in part because he has a contingent that will go to war with him no matter what. This maybe a feel good post but it’s not realistic. Not until cal shows he is serious about evolving. So far zero he has done in the off season has convinced me that we will have a good team next year. And no good team he’s gone. There will be legions out there with a megaphone he won’t sleep. No the cal apologists need to sit there and stop the enabling and let’s see what he does.

 

[Wildcats1st]

We really need to retain Toppin.
Mintz would be big and Jackson would be grand. Doubtful on him though.

the fact there is a debate of whether toppin stays or goes proves zero has changed. He’s another nondrafted early leaver if he goes and obviously he is considering it.

 

[Wildcats1st]

Even if I did want Cal gone, the reality is it is just too expensive. Here is where I am ignorant though. Does Cal have TOTAL CONTROL of the program? By that, can Mitch dictate who the paid assistant coaches are? Can he fire them? What would Cal's reaction to that be? It could get really ugly.

But watching the Kansas beat down last night, they talked about the USC coach and it was reported as him saying having top assistants are the key for any coach. Along with Cal's sticking to his players based on ratings versus performance, his instance on hiring mediocre assistants because of relationships has led to this debacle of 20-21. Mitch needs to mandate coaching changes with the assistants but Cal may have the right in his contract to say who the assistants are regardless of what Mitch wants?

Mitch can fire them all. They are employed by the university of Kentucky not the university of cal. But Mitch is spineless and he’s probably happy we didn’t get in so he didn’t have to deal with fans questioning him over our seeding

 

[fisherscatfan_rivals101526]

Mitch can fire them all. They are employed by the university of Kentucky not the university of cal. But Mitch is spineless and he’s probably happy we didn’t get in so he didn’t have to deal with fans questioning him over our seeding

Thanks. I assumed he could but given the horrific terms of the contract, I would not have been surprised if Cal has total power contractually over his assistants as well.

 

[NavyCat88]

The season is 5 months long, Cal cares about 2 weeks of it...and one night in June

And as a result, our fanbase has lost what I would call a significant number of fans. They aren't out on the streets with torches and pitchforks like the kneeling outrage people are, but I bet their numbers are higher. They've simply tuned out. There are no more Kyle Macy, Kenny Walker, Chuck Hayes UK players anymore.

And why should I watch a team I have no connection with play horrible basketball and lose to Evansville? Oh, they beat South Carolina in late February. OK, great. I might watch the highlights on Youtube if I have time.

That is a great point. If HC is indifferent about the regular season, how can UK Athletic Dept expect the fans to care about the unwatchable BB that is played at Rupp Arena from the season-opener to mid-Feb?

GBB!

 

[revcort]

I agree it’s too soon to be offering any “olive branches”. This season really isn’t even done yet until we know who leaves. Cal has spent the better part of the last 5-6 years as a divisive person and just spent this season torching uk fans on his way to massive losing. I look at the blind cal supporters as enablers of all he has felt empowered to do and done. He hasn’t changed in part because he has a contingent that will go to war with him no matter what. This maybe a feel good post but it’s not realistic. Not until cal shows he is serious about evolving. So far zero he has done in the off season has convinced me that we will have a good team next year. And no good team he’s gone. There will be legions out there with a megaphone he won’t sleep. No the cal apologists need to sit there and stop the enabling and let’s see what he does.

The olive branch wasn't on behalf of Calipari. It was from me to those who are ready for him to leave today. My intent was to focus on where we can agree and to promote some peace on the board. I do agree with you that we need to see changes.

 

[rick64]

Willing to give Cal a chance to right the ship. He absolutely deserves that. But.....another season resembling what the program just went through is 100% unacceptable. Mitch will have to grow a pair and deal with it.

 

[NavyCat88]

What I get from "real world" interactions (meaning, live and not on the internet, which isn't even a real place I don't think), is that any fans that have left the program didn't do so over OAD. To be sure, folks are definitely tired of it, it doesn't produce like it did and all you have left are (present year excepted) good but not great teams with near total roster turnover. Not appetizing. The people that have left, who have said I'm done with UK basketball until Calipari leaves - and I don't think that's a significant percentage, by the way - are the ones mad about kneeling/social justice issues.

And I'm not sure what there is to do about that, can't put the genie back in the bottle.

Point 2. Let's assume none of the assumptions I see about Cal here are true - let's assume he's not stubborn, arrogant, resistant to change, etc. Moving from a OAD model to something more traditional will be very difficult. I've said this before - I always worried about the next guy after Cal. Cal retires, the recruits decommit, all returning players leave early. The next guy is in a world of hurt, and likely for several years. Now we're faced with changing mid-stream. How do you do that, exactly, and not have a period of, well, bad teams? How do you get from here to there.

I don't really entertain serious thoughts of wanting Calipari gone. First ballot Hall of Famer, coach of the decade, yada yada. He ain't leaving until he's ready (just like K, Roy, Izzo, etc.), so I don't even think about it.....

I think there is a percentage...a pretty small percentage where the kneeling business was a deal-breaker for them and Cal. A lot didn't like it, but with more winning, most of BBN would have been able to stomach it without everyone agreeing with it.

I think a much much higher percentage is on edge and agitated because they're no longer believers that Cal's system can secure FF's and NC's. Whether it is less OAD talent, more attrition, perceived stodgy offense, etc....I think a lot of BBN see mediocrity in our future with every year's high roster turnover. I also think the fans have lost the ability to "identify" with the current brand of OAD players because they're less talented and appear to me to be less engaging during their 8 month stopover. I don't see the next John Wall dancing the night away at midnight madness. I don't see a Boogie Cousins 2.0 prowling the paint and enforcing law and order down low. I don't see flash & dash. I see a meeker & weaker brand of OAD and that is undercutting HC's chances at meeting BBN expectations.

Just my opinion.

GBB!

 

[docholiday51]

I think there is a percentage...a pretty small percentage where the kneeling business was a deal-breaker for them and Cal. A lot didn't like it, but with more winning, most of BBN would have been able to stomach it without everyone agreeing with it.

I think a much much higher percentage is on edge and agitated because they're no longer believers that Cal's system can secure FF's and NC's. Whether it is less OAD talent, more attrition, perceived stodgy offense, etc....I think a lot of BBN see mediocrity in our future with every year's high roster turnover. I also think the fans have lost the ability to "identify" with the current brand of OAD players because they're less talented and appear to me to be less engaging during their 8 month stopover. I don't see the next John Wall dancing the night away at midnight madness. I don't see a Boogie Cousins 2.0 prowling the paint and enforcing law and order down low. I don't see flash & dash. I see a meeker & weaker brand of OAD and that is undercutting HC's chances at meeting BBN expectations.

Just my opinion.

GBB!

I think the kneeling issue was a greater "deal breaker" than you (on a a percentage basis) believe. As Mojo cat said the "real world" fans (by that I mean folks who are big enough UK fans to seek out conversation about UK on a face to face basis) generally see it as disrespect to the flag and country. I doubt greatly that Cal and the players meant it in that way but that is how it came across to many many fans. Folks who served in the military or had family who served were offended.

Fans have lost the ability to identify with OAD players and by extension with the program. This is a big deal to long time fans(older generation) who feel invested in the program. Cal has burned those bridges to a large degree

I find it interesting that the younger fans seem to defend Cal and his dated style of basketball, while older fans seem to want the more modern style of play that Cal seems to resist.

I truly believe that where we go from here is really still up in the air. There is a real danger that we become IU 2.0 but if Cal is serious about change he can right the ship. The business as usual Cal will not get it done ,it is change or the end of UK basketball as we have known it for the better part of a century.

 

[bluebornwildcat]

Let's just have a Mortal Kombat tournament and settle everything once and for all. Then grab some beers after.

 

[Blue_2_the_bone_rivals]

Next season tells the story on Cal. Another repeat or failure to alter the model and its time to move on.

 

[TortElvisII]

We all want the same thing. There's been a tremendous shift in basketball over the last few years. Cal has had enough talent that he did not have to adjust. That is definitely no longer the case.

 

[Spanish Radio]

I think the ultimate test for Cal will be, if attendance is back to normal, the seats in Rupp Arena. If by January we are seeing a half empty Rupp Arena on national television and the attendance cap is no longer in place for Covid then that will tell us a lot about Cal's future. If UK doesn't make the NCAA tournament that would likely finish him off. The embarrassment of that scenario make this year look small for him and us.

 

[KyFaninNC]

I think the ultimate test for Cal will be, if attendance is back to normal, the seats in Rupp Arena. If by January we are seeing a half empty Rupp Arena on national television and the attendance cap is no longer in place for Covid then that will tell us a lot about Cal's future. If UK doesn't make the NCAA tournament that would likely finish him off. The embarrassment of that scenario make this year look small for him and us.

Yep. I have been torn as to whether Cal is confidant he can turn this around and whether he is concerned about his legacy. If he has another bad year, the heat will be really hot, then his legacy would be tarnished. If he walks away now and simply say he is burned out, his legacy will be intact.

 

[Ky_Bred_Cat]

Cal caught lightning in a bottle when he came to UK and got out in front of the OAD movement. The timing was perfect and he was a genius for recognizing what it was and what he could do with it.

That's over now and unfortunately he embraced it too long. I'm not confident he can just do all these things we're clamoring for, change his system over night, and be successful at it. I guess we'll see.

 

[Cowtown Cat]

Allen had two good games, recall BJ had a few games he made 5 or 6 threes too, it’s not as cut and dry as you’d like it to be, your prognosticating goggles aren’t anymore valuable than Cal’s. Cal thought with the minutes BJ would have been an overall better asset than Dontaie. After the first MissSt game Dontaie got plenty of opportunities and looked lost again.

Boston looked lost all damn season and was never benched for it. Hell, all Cal did was attempt to run even more offense through that black hole. Allen never looked anymore lost than Boston did and especially anymore than Askew did.

There were many games where Allen was wide open and never even as much as got a pass his way. Even after Cal supposedly told them to look for Allen. How come those players weren’t benched for not doing what he wanted?

You don’t think Allen would’ve had many more good games had he gotten ample opportunity to do so? Hell, some games he didn’t even clock a minute. Boston had very few good games. After hoisting almost 300 shots, I would sure hope he could put together a decent game here or there.

Cal benched Allen because he wasn’t making shots in practice. That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. Yet, he had to play some players so that they could miss shots in the games. His words, not mine. Sounds pretty damn hypocritical to me.

Fact is, Allen lost PT for no good reason. If he lost playing time, then so too should have Boston and Askew. How many games did those two guys cost us anyway? Now, how many games did Allen cost us?

 

[Cowtown Cat]

This is exactly what my source told me about Brooks. He wants to be somewhere else. He just wasn’t into it here.

Because he thinks Rupp was a racist? LOL Wouldn’t surprise me a bit if that’s the case. What a joke this program has become.

 

[Cowtown Cat]

I disagree he didn't look lost, he was totally unsure of himself after that. If I was coach I would have played him more too but I just disagree it was easy to see that was the correct move.

Cal played mind games with this kid all season long to stick it to the fanbase. That was as clear as day. At first, he would bench him for missing shots. Then it turned into benching him for not taking bad shots. Then it was forcing him to take bad shots and benching him for missing them. Goodness, no wonder the kid was unsure of himself.

Cal was all over the map on Allen. He acted like a complete *** the entire year in regards to him. Called Allen out, while never uttering a word about other players. He never wanted to play Allen. If not for fan and media pressure he most likely doesn’t.

Take your Cal blinders off. I’m done defending the guy. He’s all about the guy with the most draft potential. He doesn’t care to play guys that help us win games. Again, clear as day.

 

[*CatinIL*]

Once again, I'll wait and see what Calipari rolls out next season. For any player that returns, at least we fans can have a baseline on their talent level based on this past season. For all the incoming STUDS...well, I'll wait and see what really strolls onto the court, just like every year. Hopefully Calipari can fix the mess that was the 2020/21 BB season.

 

[preacherfan]

No offense but you’ve been a pretty harsh critic of those critical of John Calipari. I’m not sure what this thread does exactly? All of these topics were covered in the other thread where you were upset/ insulting other members. They are also all covered in a slew of other threads already.

Yes, we all agree that we want Kentucky basketball to be successful but, as many have stated a plethora of times with facts, numbers and examples the program is on a downward trajectory and Calipari is showing absolutely no signs of adapting or changing. For some reason tho, those who defend Calipari so staunchly seem to take others opinions very very personally.

I hope like hell that John Calipari can get UK back to the promised land but his entire model is incredibly broken, he is no longer getting the elites and he is simply unable to retain solid veterans.

For the record, the intolerance has been from both sides.

 

[Cawood86_rivals]

Willing to give Cal a chance to right the ship. He absolutely deserves that. But.....another season resembling what the program just went through is 100% unacceptable. Mitch will have to grow a pair and deal with it.

He will get another year or more because of his contract and because I doubt Banrhart has the stones to do anyitng anyway.
I will disagree that he deserves it. He's been here 12 years. Made millions upon millions. Not sure what another year is going to do.

 

[Lempface]

Boston looked lost all damn season and was never benched for it. Hell, all Cal did was attempt to run even more offense through that black hole. Allen never looked anymore lost than Boston did and especially anymore than Askew did.

There were many games where Allen was wide open and never even as much as got a pass his way. Even after Cal supposedly told them to look for Allen. How come those players weren’t benched for not doing what he wanted?

You don’t think Allen would’ve had many more good games had he gotten ample opportunity to do so? Hell, some games he didn’t even clock a minute. Boston had very few good games. After hoisting almost 300 shots, I would sure hope he could put together a decent game here or there.

Cal benched Allen because he wasn’t making shots in practice. That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. Yet, he had to play some players so that they could miss shots in the games. His words, not mine. Sounds pretty damn hypocritical to me.

Fact is, Allen lost PT for no good reason. If he lost playing time, then so too should have Boston and Askew. How many games did those two guys cost us anyway? Now, how many games did Allen cost us?

Boston never looked nearly as lost on defense as Dontaie did, he never seemed to struggle dribbling like Dontaie did. Fact is Boston did everything better than Dontaie, that’s why he played more. He wasn’t great at literally anything but he was better than Dontaie. Look, I love Dontaie and am stoked he is back and since he’s a Kentucky kid I hope he becomes an all time favorite, his first Miss St performance is one of my all time favorite UK memories. But, I don’t fault Cal for giving the minutes to Boston.

 

[Panthur]

Nailed it .

That’s what she said.

 

[BBUK_anon]

Well said IL. BTW, kind of nice having IL go out early isn't it? I'm in IL as well so didn't want them to win it all and never hear the end of it. Haha

They call him.... Ill....

 

[Panthur]

Farr Cal.

Or at least hold his damn feet to the farr.

And fire Mitch on sight.

Then rehire him just so we can fire his *** a few more times.

 

[ShadowFromHomewardBound]

For the record, the intolerance has been from both sides.

Ehh, maybe. One side more than the other for sure tho.

 

[Lempface]

Cal played mind games with this kid all season long to stick it to the fanbase. That was as clear as day. At first, he would bench him for missing shots. Then it turned into benching him for not taking bad shots. Then it was forcing him to take bad shots and benching him for missing them. Goodness, no wonder the kid was unsure of himself.

Cal was all over the map on Allen. He acted like a complete *** the entire year in regards to him. Called Allen out, while never uttering a word about other players. He never wanted to play Allen. If not for fan and media pressure he most likely doesn’t.

Take your Cal blinders off. I’m done defending the guy. He’s all about the guy with the most draft potential. He doesn’t care to play guys that help us win games. Again, clear as day.

Yeah, he played mind games with him by giving him 32 minutes the very next game, 22 minutes the game after that where he scored 6 points, 24 minutes against Bama the next game for 8 points, 23 minutes against Auburn after that for 8 points, 23 minutes after that against UGA for 3 points, 15 minutes against LSU for 6 points after that, 24 minutes against Bama for 12 points, before his minutes finally fell to 7 against Mizzou.

I love the kid, I really do but he got ample opportunity after his break out performance and slipped away each game after that, offsetting any scoring by looking completely lost on D.

I’m so glad he’s back though because I have the utmost confidence in him to be a beast in the long term, just being realistic here.

 

[DaytonKat]

I have viewed John Calipari as the poster boy for many of the shortcomings in the college game that more and more folks seem willing to acknowledge.

The guy is a bull shite artist. I've seen it mentioned here that some folks get tired of people using one-liners on this forum; yet, John Calipari has been the king of hyperbolic one-liners and bull spit to the fan base since the day he took the job.

The symptoms you see at UK and elsewhere in men's college basketball---John Calipari is firmly entrenched as having championed the causes that led to those symptoms.

Based on those I hear from outside of this forum, there are a lot more folks who grew tired of John Calipari's act years ago than one gets wind of here.

I do have a question, and I'm not trying to be coy:

I see many posts saying that John Calipari has "earned" the right to try to turn it around, or he "deserves" it. From my viewpoint, I'm at a loss as to what he's done to have "earned" or "deserve" a right to continue to cause damage to the University and the men's basketball program?

He's won a lot of games. He won a national championship while coaching at UK (4 other coaches have done that at UK). I understand that, but hasn't he been paid very well to do just that?

Isn't that why he's been the highest paid coach in the game of college basketball? When a person is paid very well to produce, when they do produce, that was all part of the expectations that were set for the job in the first place. That was part of the bargain.

When they don't produce to the level of expectations, and have even been causing damage to the brand, is it not reasonable to say: that's it, enough is enough.

What has John Calipari done for the University of Kentucky that he hasn't been compensated very well for already?

I view John Calipari as part of the problem, not as part of the solution. I'm completely fine that others do not share my point of view.

 

[JC CATS]

This has been a season of weirdness from Covid to no summer or fall workouts. Not only has Cal and UK endured bad years but many other good basketball schools, albeit we were the worst. If last season hadn't been canceled come tourney time how far could we have gone? One season does not make a trend. If it happens again then time to start worrying imo. Was this season an anomaly? All I know is that next season is huge for Cal and I am sure he is aware. He is not getting fired so I say, let's see what happens and go from there

 

[JC CATS]

I have viewed John Calipari as the poster boy for many of the shortcomings in the college game that more and more folks seem willing to acknowledge.

The guy is a bull shite artist. I've seen it mentioned here that some folks get tired of people using one-liners on this forum; yet, John Calipari has been the king of hyperbolic one-liners and bull spit to the fan base since the day he took the job.

The symptoms you see at UK and elsewhere in men's college basketball---John Calipari is firmly entrenched as having championed the causes that led to those symptoms.

Based on those I hear from outside of this forum, there are a lot more folks who grew tired of John Calipari's act years ago than one gets wind of here on this forum.

I do have a question, and I'm not trying to be coy here:

I see many posts saying that John Calipari has "earned" the right to try to turn it around, or he "deserves" it. From my viewpoint, I'm at a loss as to what he's done to have "earned" or "deserve" a right to continue to cause damage to the University and the men's basketball program?

He's won a lot of games. He won a national championship while coaching at UK (4 other coaches have done that at UK). I understand that, but hasn't he been paid very well to do just that?

Isn't that why he's been the highest paid coach in the game of college basketball? When a person is paid very well to produce, when they do produce, that was all part of the expectations that were set for the job in the first place.

When they don't produce to the level of expectations, and have even been causing damage to the brand, is it not reasonable to say: that's it, enough is enough.

What has John Calipari done for the University of Kentucky that he hasn't been compensated very well for already?

I view John Calipari as part of the problem, not as part of the solution. I'm completely fine that others do not share my point of view.

I respect your opinion but I think being the winningest program in the nation for a 10 year period buys him time to turn 1 bad season around

 

[DaytonKat]

I respect your opinion but I think being the winningest program in the nation for a 10 year period buys him time to turn 1 bad season around

I appreciate your direct response in sharing your point of view on my question. I think the hurdle for me is that I see a lot more negatives (damage done to program) than just the 1 bad season.

 

[Cowtown Cat]

Boston never looked nearly as lost on defense as Dontaie did, he never seemed to struggle dribbling like Dontaie did. Fact is Boston did everything better than Dontaie, that’s why he played more. He wasn’t great at literally anything but he was better than Dontaie. Look, I love Dontaie and am stoked he is back and since he’s a Kentucky kid I hope he becomes an all time favorite, his first Miss St performance is one of my all time favorite UK memories. But, I don’t fault Cal for giving the minutes to Boston.

Boston was every bit as lost on defense as Dontaie. The dude couldn’t guard a fence post. This notion that Boston did everything better than Dontaie is BS.

The fact is, Boston was more comfortable on the floor in those games because he got all the PT in order to play through mistakes. He also never had to worry about being yanked for making a mistake. Go watch our last game again and tell me what Boston does better. I’ll wait.

 

[Lempface]

Boston was every bit as lost on defense as Dontaie. The dude couldn’t guard a fence post. This notion that Boston did everything better than Dontaie is BS.

The fact is, Boston was more comfortable on the floor in those games because he got all the PT in order to play through mistakes. He also never had to worry about being yanked for making a mistake. Go watch our last game again and tell me what Boston does better. I’ll wait.

Both were feast or famine, you’re saying this with hindsight. Boston was definitely the better defender of the two, even if he wasn’t great.

 

[Cawood86_rivals]

Boston was every bit as lost on defense as Dontaie. The dude couldn’t guard a fence post. This notion that Boston did everything better than Dontaie is BS.

The fact is, Boston was more comfortable on the floor in those games because he got all the PT in order to play through mistakes. He also never had to worry about being yanked for making a mistake. Go watch our last game again and tell me what Boston does better. I’ll wait.

Cal didn't want to take his heart...also Cal didn't want to upset Boston's documentary crew.

 

[bookerfan66]

Both were feast or famine, you’re saying this with hindsight. Boston was definitely the better defender of the two, even if he wasn’t great.

The point is that when Allen made mistakes he was benched.Boston was allowed to be terrible with no punishment.The double standard is what frustrates me about Cal.He has his favorites for sure.

 

[Susan2361]

no doubt the kneeling thing has caused issues with fans. I personally feel it was just a bad decision on Cal's part given the type of season he has, and him not taking stock of just where he was in the goodwill department of the fanbase. He simply didn't have the goodwill capital to do that in the midst of the worst season in UK's history. If Cal doesn't make it past next year, people will cite that as one of the reasons for his departure, regardless of how people feel about the act of kneeling itself.

The issue was his judgement in participating as a representative of the state of Kentucky.

That said, there are also issues with UK pricing the typical fan out of the game, but lets look at this year - Cal was upset with the fans for pushing him to schedule "real" teams on the schedule, and Cal has intentionally watered down the Rupp schedule so that fans attending games will rarely get to see marquee matchups. No home and home with UNC, IU, or Duke - and honestly, in the past few seasons we're losing to these teams for the most part anyways.

While we can point to external factors, I don't think anyone can argue that Cal took for granted the rabid fanbase would continue to support the program regardless of the changes he implemented - and in turn the fans just don't want to buy $80 tickets to see UK play bad fundamental basketball with players on the court they can't even name against teams that have players who will be playing church league basketball in 4 years

Why would anyone blame fans for losing interest?

I would argue that Rupp would still sell out if (and consequently fan interest would not be waning)
1. UK played more marquee teams in November /December with home and home series including IU.
2. UK actually wins those games while playing solid fundamental basketball
3. UK has players the fans can connect with and provides them with continuity with the team year over year.

You give me those 3 things in Rupp and I bet Kentucky doesn't have a fan apathy problem.

But instead we've allowed Cal to sell us on creating the easiest path possible to get his 5 star wonderkids ready to actually play real college basketball teams in March.
The season is 5 months long, Cal cares about 2 weeks of it...and one night in June

And as a result, our fanbase has lost what I would call a significant number of fans. They aren't out on the streets with torches and pitchforks like the kneeling outrage people are, but I bet their numbers are higher. They've simply tuned out. There are no more Kyle Macy, Kenny Walker, Chuck Hayes UK players anymore.

And why should I watch a team I have no connection with play horrible basketball and lose to Evansville? Oh, they beat South Carolina in late February. OK, great. I might watch the highlights on Youtube if I have time.

When Cal came here he was willing to play anyone, anytime. UK would take your heart. Now he's scared to play anyone and pretty salty about being expected to do so - while being on the edge of losing the all time wins. What has happened to the program we love? I remember the pride I had of buying the UK2K shirt...that seems like a different program I followed now.

Excellent post. Just excellent. Thank you.