I don’t like UCLA or Gonzaga. Honestly Michigan played a terrible game. Their offense is more bull in a China shop than ours. Didn’t know that was possible. Ucla doesn’t impress me either. If Juzang is on a title team, good for him but he left so I don’t care. As for the zags they play together and move well etc but I am not standing in line to kiss their ring. Are they the next Connecticut or the next butler?
All the Gonzaga haters
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Ist team all american
Like Bobio said, if it is so easy, then why can't other teams do it ? Gonzaga has done it 5 years in a row.
Still don't understand this argument. "If its so easy, why can't other teams do it?".. because the other teams in that conference aren't any good. College basketball doesn't stop teams from being really good. It doesn't deal with parity.
This isn't the NBA. It's not a sport with a salary cap. When the Pats ran through the AFC East for 20 years.. thats when the "if its so easy, why can't the other teams do it?" argument applies. Because all 4 teams have the same salary cap/funding. Further, the WCC isn't even a competitive conference. Its not like Duke or Kentucky getting to beat up on 5 or 6 "lesser" schools in their conference. The entire conference is bad, with the exception of 1 or 2 halfway decent teams. Gonzaga is basically an 8th grader beating up 3rd graders.
How about this.. put some power conference teams in the WCC and see how much different it is for Gonzaga. Or.. actually move to a power conference.
Again, no one is saying Gonzaga isn't a fantastic team this year. But no one is impressed at going 16-0 in the WCC. No one. Don't care if they did it year after year. Kentucky and Florida have both gone 18-0 in their conference just in the last decade... and they did it by actually playing legit competition and on the road.
What in my opinion makes it impressive is the fact the last 3/4 years the ZAGS have known the Criticism of them and their weak conference and they have gone out and scheduled good teams preseason. Is going 16-0 in their conference impressive. I think so. Not overly so, but still it’s something. But beating virgina, iowa, wvu, Kansas, and Auburn. That IS impressive and when u combine it with 16-0 in a weak conference is a tremendous feat. The whole body of work at 32-0 with a Baylor win added to that group would be a fantastic year. It’s not 40-0, and it’s in a weaker conference amd a weaker year in college basketball probably, but it’s still very impressive amd worthy of being talked about as a great team IMO.
@LineSkiCat14 just “moving to a power conference!” isn’t that simple for a school without a football program (which has been pointed out a half dozen times already)
Oh well.. until then, there's always going to be skepticism from the power conferences when it comes to Gonzaga.. and the Gonzaga fans can say "ha we don't care what people think".. yet.. here they are, trying to convince the power conferences they belong.
Anyways, do you think its a good argument to say "well why can't anyone else in the WCC do it?".. because im waiting to hear an explanation for that, or a rebuttal to more than just one point in my post above.
To make it through completely unscathed? Maybe. But more so because college basketball is volatile and some times, even the greatest teams of all time, have off nights.
But no, I'm not impressed with what might be the single most lopsided team-to-conference setup like Gonzaga and WCC. Gonzaga simply outmatches that conference.. in their funding, fan support, recruiting, everything.. by a wide margin. Its maybe the biggest "who doesn't belong" in team sports that I can think of.
IU also did it at a time when teams were way more stacked overall with upper class talent. If they do it props to them. I think playing in one gym for the entire tournament helps as well. They were very used to the shooting background by then. That screws a ton of teams up some years along with the travel.
Few has done enough now that the conference argument doesn’t hold weight, he scheduled tough OOC and they have proven runs now that they belong in the top tier of teams.I’d even say in the future if they finish 2nd and don’t win the conference tournament that they deserve an at large bid if they have a solid resume.
When your last six seasons (and 2020) go like this
2015- Elite 8
2016- Sweet 16
2017- National Runner-up
2018- Sweet 16
2019- Elite 8
2020- A 1 seed before tourney was canc.
2021- Undefeated and in the national championship game
...there’s no argument about anything. How many power five teams did the above?
2015- Elite 8
2016- Sweet 16
2017- National Runner-up
2018- Sweet 16
2019- Elite 8
2020- A 1 seed before tourney was canc.
2021- Undefeated and in the national championship game
...there’s no argument about anything. How many power five teams did the above?
I think the fact that Gonzaga is just the 3rd team from a non-major conference (out of over 10,000) since 1980 to enter the NCAA Tournament undefeated is the point of “if it’s so easy why don’t other teams do it”. It’s not just relegated to teams from their conference. That’s .0002% of non-major teams who have been able to do it since 1980...nearly impossible.
Also, I think very few, if anyone from the power conferences are skeptical of the Zags. It’s purely a fan thing as far as skepticism.
UK fans continually trashing the Zags’ accomplishments because of a “weak conference” reminds one of IU, UL, and UNC fans trying the same to diminish Coach Rupp.
I think people continually put way too much emphasis on conferences.
It doesn't matter as much as some think IMO.
If you are good you are good.
It doesn't matter as much as some think IMO.
If you are good you are good.
But we're talking about UNDEFEATED.. I think a few people are continuing to miss that.
There's a big difference between saying "Gonzaga sucks" and "im not sure they go undefeated in conference play under these other scenarios".
Thats really what I'm talking about. Going undefeated in their conference and the worth of dominating that conference.
The undefeated part isn't really all that big of a deal to me. They also went undefeated in their very difficult non conference, but it's neither here nor there to me. They are absolutely legit regardless. All this talk about their conference this and that is meaningless. You can choose to cast aspersions on the WCC if you choose to, but it means nothing
Yes, as I've said many times, this Gonzaga team is elite. I also think THIS Gonzaga team is on a completely different level than past Gonzaga teams. Just not sure if they go undefeated in other circumstances.
I just believe a lot of top teams in a given year would walk through that conference.. and it certainly wouldn't be difficult if they got to do it without true road games. Not sure how it's "meaningless".. it's a sports debate. Of course they aren't going to care, or give the title back if they win it. But when has "means nothing" stopped people from having debates? Cal isn't going to apologize to fans, so why do we talk about it?
Do YOU think Baylor, Illini, OSU, Iowa wouldn't go through that conference undefeated? Or that those teams (minus Iowa) didn't have a good chance to do the whole thing undefeated? That's kind of been my point in all of this.. it's incredibly hard to go 16/18-0 in a conference, WHEN the conference strength is leveled. Could Gonzaga have done it this year in the big10? I think that's possible.. but I would say more likely they drop a game or two.
I think some points are being confused in this thread, with one person arguing this to someone who is arguing something different.
-I think this Gonzaga team is fantastic. Their best yet.
-I think it's possible they go undefeated in a normal scenario (Road games, 40-games), but I think it's more likely they drop a game.
-I think playing in the WCC is a HUGE boost to their win column, and plenty of teams this year would have gone 16-0.. although this year, it may not have mattered for Gonzaga, they were THAT good.
-I wasn't going to really buy into any team that went undefeated this year. For me, COVID kind of put an asterisks on that.
-Gonzaga stepped up it's OOC slate, for sure. But I think it's being overstated.. and when you look at how easy their path was to the title game, I think it starts to become a moot point. The big4 they played never made it to the 2nd weekend.
-"how come other teams can't do it" remains to be a bad argument in my eyes. Iona has dominated the MAAC for 5 years also. Why? Because they had two coaches who were completely outmatching anyone else in that conference. Gonzaga is in a completely outmatched conference. They SHOULD be this dominant.
-Have no other issues with Gonzaga, and will root for them against any of our rivals, trivial rivals, or full blown ones.
-Kispert wears eye-liner.
-I think this Gonzaga team is fantastic. Their best yet.
-I think it's possible they go undefeated in a normal scenario (Road games, 40-games), but I think it's more likely they drop a game.
-I think playing in the WCC is a HUGE boost to their win column, and plenty of teams this year would have gone 16-0.. although this year, it may not have mattered for Gonzaga, they were THAT good.
-I wasn't going to really buy into any team that went undefeated this year. For me, COVID kind of put an asterisks on that.
-Gonzaga stepped up it's OOC slate, for sure. But I think it's being overstated.. and when you look at how easy their path was to the title game, I think it starts to become a moot point. The big4 they played never made it to the 2nd weekend.
-"how come other teams can't do it" remains to be a bad argument in my eyes. Iona has dominated the MAAC for 5 years also. Why? Because they had two coaches who were completely outmatching anyone else in that conference. Gonzaga is in a completely outmatched conference. They SHOULD be this dominant.
-Have no other issues with Gonzaga, and will root for them against any of our rivals, trivial rivals, or full blown ones.
-Kispert wears eye-liner.
If you’re just solely focusing on the “they went undefeated” thing and that’s all you want to talk about, fine. Maybe they wouldn’t have gone undefeated in the ACC or the PAC 12 or the BIG 12 or the SEC. To that point I say I really don’t know and I really don’t care. It just seems like all these conversations keep coming back to “well they wouldn’t have gone undefeated in other conferences” even when the conversation didn’t necessarily have anything to do with undefeated. It just seems like a way to discredit them.
That's really been my focus the entire time.. while also talking about the strength of the WCC when it's brought up. The Gonzaga fan seemed to give it more value than I thought it had.
EDIT: As early as the first page of this thread, people starting talking about going undefeated in their conference. Blubio was talking about 5 straight 30 win seasons, and that's where the WCC debate came up.
You know how many years I heard from fans of other programs that "UK benefits from being in the weak SEC!!!!" I know I'm not the only one. We've all heard it. And my point then was always we are great regardless, what difference does it make? People would throw inflated seeding, inflated W/L records, all that at us. We heard it all the time. It's wild to see our fans do the same thing, to me at least.
Yes that part is entirely different.
Of course it's way harder to go undefeated in a power conference.
I think it's also way harder to go undefeated in say the Big 10 or Big 12 vs going undefeated in say the SEC or Pac 12 FWIW,
That being said:
Baylor went 13-1 in conference
Alabama went 16-2
MIchigan was 14-3
I think Gonzaga is better than all those teams. I have no idea if they would go undefeated if they played in a power conference but I don't think it's out of the question either.
I mean Gonzaga is a 4 point favorite tonight.
If the Zags played in the Big 12, even @Baylor they would be a 1 point favorite or it would be even. They would be favored in every single game.
Again doesn't mean they'd run the team but not completely out of the realm of possibility.
Stick them in the SEC where there was no Baylor and it becomes even more possible.
Either way I'm not really sure it's relevant. Even if we consider the weak conference their undefeated record encompasses a non conference where they played some very good teams. To me, it doesn't matter whether those games are in/out of conference just that u played them and beat good teams.
If the Zags played in the Big 12, even @Baylor they would be a 1 point favorite or it would be even. They would be favored in every single game.
Again doesn't mean they'd run the team but not completely out of the realm of possibility.
Stick them in the SEC where there was no Baylor and it becomes even more possible.
Either way I'm not really sure it's relevant. Even if we consider the weak conference their undefeated record encompasses a non conference where they played some very good teams. To me, it doesn't matter whether those games are in/out of conference just that u played them and beat good teams.
I would agree. I definitely think it's possible, maybe even probable. We'll see tonight if Gonzaga is better than Baylor. I do think Gonzaga will win it, the more I look at it.
As for the SEC, I would agree.. they always seem to be like the 3rd to 5th conference, so in a given year, it's usually harder to go undefeated in another conference, whether it's the ACC or the Big10 or even old Big East seasons.
I don't think many people argued that the SEC was the best, though.. or a top conference when it wasn't.
Gonzaga is well built for the college game. Few knows how to coach based on todays rules and he builds his roster to fit his style of play perfectly. They are a very very good team and you can't take anything away from them, covid or no covid.
I don't care what conference you're in, or whether you play 30 or 40 games in a year, winning every single game is a HUGE accomplishment. I personally think they win tonight, fairly easily.
I don't care what conference you're in, or whether you play 30 or 40 games in a year, winning every single game is a HUGE accomplishment. I personally think they win tonight, fairly easily.
Amen brother!! I think you hit the nail squarely on the head on this one. I, too, see nothing to dislike about Gonzaga. It does seem like some have a tendency to dislike any team or coach having a high level of success, especially when UK is not.
I don't really care who wins this game. I just hope this game lives up to the hype. These IMO are the two best teams in college basketball. I think people were sleeping on Baylor after slipping up a bit late season but all along these were the best two.
Hopefully we see a good game.
Hopefully we see a good game.
The fun part tonight will be of Baylor beats Gonzaga, seeing the Gonzaga haters try to “I told you so!” this one.
Like I said in the other thread, Baylor is outstanding. The only outcome that would surprise me tonight is a blowout in either direction.
Like I said in the other thread, Baylor is outstanding. The only outcome that would surprise me tonight is a blowout in either direction.
Honestly, I'd just be happy to see Kentucky "fans" rooting for Gonzaga out of spite to other Kentucky fans/Cal, not get their way. If this forum said the same thigns about Baylor.. we'd have the same people then pulling for Baylor to rub it in their faces.
Plus, we'd be removing a half dozen Gonzaga fans who have been here trying to tout their program. Haven't seen a single Baylor fan.
For some It is jealousy pure and simple. They feel Gonzaga is a threat to UK. How anyone can feel this way is strange. UK was 9-16 and nobody outside of the BBN is paying any attention to UK whether or not Gonzaga wins.
Gonzaga has not won a title and UK has 8, so why would they be a threat?
I've heard this sentiment a couple times here.
Who here is cheering for Gonzaga to spite other Kentucky fans or Coach Cal? That doesn't even make sense to me.
I think some hate Gonzaga because as a fan of a supposed "blue blood" its a sort of snobbery that you see when someone poor suddenly becomes rich. Some also hate them because they dont like the positive media attention they receive because so many believe the media "hates" UK so much, they hype up teams like Gonzaga and Duke.
Texas is football country. Most in Texas don't care about basketball or any other sport. Most are football people only. Oh a little tid bit that I bet most don't know.Corey Kispert's grandfather played for the New York Jets, and was a teammate of Joe Namath.
It would only make sense to fans who are angry with other fans for disagreeing on things related to the UK program, the biggest one being opinion on Calipari. But doing anything out of spite gets no respect from me. If you want to cheer for Gonzaga since UK isn't in it this season and because you have respect for Few and the program he has built, have at it. Truthfully, for me, I don't care who wins between Gonzaga and Baylor. It will be title #1 for either program. I'm just glad it's not UCLA.
I will say, for those who can become so angry at fellow fans for disagreeing about Calipari, or one and done, or whatever else that they post and do things out spite, I don't have much use for that. I hate that the fanbase is divided. I can't remember ever being blocked, put on ignore, or having disagreements with fellow fans as much as this season. It certainly makes posting here much less pleasurable. Sometimes it feels like a chore, which is a shame.
For my part, I'm doing all I can to promote peace and harmony in the fanbase. We are all on the same team, after all. We all want the same thing, ultimately.
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