Addressing the zone we will see

zappaa

Heisman
Jul 27, 2001
75,950
93,099
103
Iowa put a screeching halt to our offense after the hot start by switching to zone.
We struggle against the zone…period.
ND will use it while having two 6-10 guys protect the paint.
I remember Myles distributing the ball from the foul line last year with good passes, I remember the color man saying “that’s the way to play against the zone”
I don’t think Cliff is ready for that, but could Paul assume that roll as ball distributor from the spot where Myles used to set up?
Once Paul gets the ball it should be out of his hands quickly, he would not be attempting to break down the D and holding onto the ball with those two big guys down low.
It would be an inside out look with mid-range jump shots and open 3s resulting.
I could be completely wrong and we should attack the rim…lol
I just hate to see us get clogged up and turn the ball over
 
Last edited:

Miggins

All-Conference
Jul 25, 2001
1,721
2,664
112
I have not watched any Notre Dame, but it seems by their statistics that they would play a lot of zone (do not foul much, lots of 3-pt shots).

I agree we have struggled against the zone. Have we had any games where we did well against the zone?

Getting shut down sticks more in the memory, so perhaps just not remembering success when we had it
 
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BigRnj

All-American
Nov 20, 2012
5,032
6,807
63
Paul in the high post is how we started to have some success (after the early game shiit show) against zones earlier in the season. Attacking zones is like running a press break (a press is really a full court zone). With good ball movement and hitting open shots you can punish a zone and have the defense go back to man.
 

RUJMM78

Heisman
Jul 25, 2001
26,349
12,651
113
The key to attacking a zone is having players at the top of the key that can make a jump shot and also pass to the corners for open 3 pointers.Dribbling the ball outside against a zone is bad basketball because the shot clock runs out forcing a desperation shot.
 

richthedentist

All-American
Aug 2, 2001
11,339
8,999
113
Iowa put a screeching halt to our offense after the hot start by switching to zone.
We struggle against the zone…period.
ND will use it while having two 6-10 guys protect the paint.
I remember Myles distributing the ball from the foul line last year with good passes, I remember the color man saying “that’s the way to play against the zone”
I don’t think Cliff is ready for that, but could Paul assume that roll as ball distributor from the spot where Myles used to set up?
Once Paul gets the ball it should be out of his hands quickly, he would not be attempting to break down the D and holding onto the ball with those two big guys down low.
It would be an inside out look with mid-range jump shots and open 3s resulting.
I could be completely wrong and we should attack the rim…lol
I just hate to see us get clogged up and turn the ball over
Agreed have to put Paul there and maybe Ron but you can’t put Cliff he is a terrible passer maybe even put Dean there when he is in he is a much better passer than Cliff but no matter who you put there you have to knock down 3’s
On another note we HAVE to defend the 3!!!
 

RUChoppin

Heisman
Dec 1, 2006
19,270
13,695
0

"Notre Dame spent most of the final 10 minutes in a 2-3 zone defense. All told, the Irish played zone for 19 possessions and allowed scores seven times. Neither man nor zone has been consistently good for them, with the former ranking in the ninth percentile of efficiency nationally and the latter in the 27th percentile, per Synergy Sports. Changing between them, though, has given opponents some pause. Duke was the latest."

"Zone might be more frequent in Notre Dame’s next game, a Sunday evening home meeting with Miami (6 p.m. ET, ACCN). The Irish’s 73-59 Jan. 24 road win over the Hurricanes featured their highest zone usage rate this season. Notre Dame played it on 49 possessions and allowed points on just 13 of them. The strategy made sense against a team that entered the game shooting 27 percent on three-pointers.”
 

NewJerseyHawk

Heisman
Jan 11, 2007
24,914
40,029
113
There's a lot of hype about the zone defense and it's really about the team that plays the zone, not the zone itself.

When RU saw Syracuse play zone at the RAC last year, RU carved up the zone and won the game.....no one plays zone better than Syracuse.

In terms of who should "flash middle".....it comes down to just getting back into the reps against it. RU has 4 players who can cut into the middle and catch a pass, hit a mid range or reverse the ball, for a shooter.

Caleb, Paul, RHJ and Geo are all able to maneuver....I would also add Hyatt and Reiber are able to play high-post and make plays or screen against the zone to get shots.

If you play zone defense, you are also weaker to get rebounds and Notre Dame is going to have issues keeping RU off the glass, especially Cliff. If you move the ball and make a lob to Cliff, the dunks will be there or ND will get into foul trouble.

The issue is how crisp and prepared is RU on the defensive end, ND is very much like Iowa, with capable shooters from 3 and it is a similar game plan. Iowa, Wisconsin and other teams we have seen, are very similar to what RU has seen in style.

The depth on either side has not been reliable, so whomever gets good defense and rebounding from their bench, will win the game.
 

bethlehemfan

Heisman
Sep 6, 2003
15,431
16,984
113
Iowa put a screeching halt to our offense after the hot start by switching to zone.
We struggle against the zone…period.
ND will use it while having two 6-10 guys protect the paint.
I remember Myles distributing the ball from the foul line last year with good passes, I remember the color man saying “that’s the way to play against the zone”
I don’t think Cliff is ready for that, but could Paul assume that roll as ball distributor from the spot where Myles used to set up?
Once Paul gets the ball it should be out of his hands quickly, he would not be attempting to break down the D and holding onto the ball with those two big guys down low.
It would be an inside out look with mid-range jump shots and open 3s resulting.
I could be completely wrong and we should attack the rim…lol
I just hate to see us get clogged up and turn the ball over
We definitely need to move the ball zap but still need to get it inside and hit the boards. At some point though you just need to make shots. We will have plenty of good looks. Play relaxed and make some shots. We can do it if we play with confidence
 
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mugrat86

Heisman
Dec 11, 2014
8,754
11,587
82
Iowa put a screeching halt to our offense after the hot start by switching to zone.
We struggle against the zone…period.
ND will use it while having two 6-10 guys protect the paint.
I remember Myles distributing the ball from the foul line last year with good passes, I remember the color man saying “that’s the way to play against the zone”
I don’t think Cliff is ready for that, but could Paul assume that roll as ball distributor from the spot where Myles used to set up?
Once Paul gets the ball it should be out of his hands quickly, he would not be attempting to break down the D and holding onto the ball with those two big guys down low.
It would be an inside out look with mid-range jump shots and open 3s resulting.
I could be completely wrong and we should attack the rim…lol
I just hate to see us get clogged up and turn the ball over
We had great looks at basket but just missed them. Hyatt had a couple, Caleb too
 
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rob kight

All-American
Oct 22, 2020
5,035
6,414
113
The key to attacking a zone is having players at the top of the key that can make a jump shot and also pass to the corners for open 3 pointers.Dribbling the ball outside against a zone is bad basketball because the shot clock runs out forcing a desperation shot.
Sounds like us we led the league in desperation shots!
 

RUBlackout

All-American
Mar 11, 2008
11,082
7,396
113
100% you put PM at the top of the key in a zone...he is your best passer and can actually drive to the hole from there as well. Only other option is RHJ as that gives you another threat.

NO ONE ELSE SHOULD BE GETTING THE BALL AT THE KEY AGAINST A ZONE

Do it and we break that zone relatively easy as people like Geo and RHJ would thrive on the outside in a catch and shoot. Also, you have Cliff playing 1:1 in that scenario and no different than a PnR with him and PM for lobs over the defender
 

Miggins

All-Conference
Jul 25, 2001
1,721
2,664
112
There's a lot of hype about the zone defense and it's really about the team that plays the zone, not the zone itself.

When RU saw Syracuse play zone at the RAC last year, RU carved up the zone and won the game.....no one plays zone better than Syracuse.

In terms of who should "flash middle".....it comes down to just getting back into the reps against it. RU has 4 players who can cut into the middle and catch a pass, hit a mid range or reverse the ball, for a shooter.

Caleb, Paul, RHJ and Geo are all able to maneuver....I would also add Hyatt and Reiber are able to play high-post and make plays or screen against the zone to get shots.

If you play zone defense, you are also weaker to get rebounds and Notre Dame is going to have issues keeping RU off the glass, especially Cliff. If you move the ball and make a lob to Cliff, the dunks will be there or ND will get into foul trouble.

The issue is how crisp and prepared is RU on the defensive end, ND is very much like Iowa, with capable shooters from 3 and it is a similar game plan. Iowa, Wisconsin and other teams we have seen, are very similar to what RU has seen in style.

The depth on either side has not been reliable, so whomever gets good defense and rebounding from their bench, will win the game.
Think ND is like Iowa in that they have good 3 point shooters. However really different in two key areas. Tempo, ND is very slow (like Rutgers), Iowa very fast. Second is offensive rebounding, ND is horrible, Iowa very good. ND is much better than Iowa in defensive rebounding.

Probably a total over simplification, but ND will play to get in a 3 point shooting contest with you. They do not push the pace, do not give up or get many second chance points. A "I will shoot better than you" strategy
 
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ScarletWalk11

Junior
Jan 11, 2009
190
325
0
Iowa's zone was more of a matchup zone. It didn't look to me like a straight 2-3 or 1-3-1. When Paul would go in to the top of the key, there was always someone on him so that wasn't as effective. It wasn't until we ran more man to man type offense that we starting getting good looks but even then we missed a lot.
 
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mjjoyce51

All-Conference
Mar 29, 2012
1,075
1,437
108
I've been advocating that Reiber really can't play with Cliff against B1G competition. There is almost always 4 athletic wings on the floor at all times and he'd be a big defensive liability. However, I definitely think he needs to get some time with Cliff this game. He's a better shooter than Hyatt and Mag and is a better defensive matchup against Laszewski who is really just a stretch PF.
 
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Loyal_2RU

Heisman
Aug 6, 2001
15,355
11,285
113
Iowa put a screeching halt to our offense after the hot start by switching to zone.
We struggle against the zone…period.
ND will use it while having two 6-10 guys protect the paint.
I remember Myles distributing the ball from the foul line last year with good passes, I remember the color man saying “that’s the way to play against the zone”
I don’t think Cliff is ready for that, but could Paul assume that roll as ball distributor from the spot where Myles used to set up?
Once Paul gets the ball it should be out of his hands quickly, he would not be attempting to break down the D and holding onto the ball with those two big guys down low.
It would be an inside out look with mid-range jump shots and open 3s resulting.
I could be completely wrong and we should attack the rim…lol
I just hate to see us get clogged up and turn the ball over
Paul or Caleb.
Long and able to pass or hit the elbow shot.
 

Randal7

All-American
Jul 22, 2009
6,719
6,130
77
Against the zone we really really really need oskar to be threat. We need it so bad cannot be over stated
 

toby83

All-Conference
Dec 23, 2014
4,095
3,823
0
catch and knock one down from corner. next time catch and drive from the corner opens everything up!

easier said than done
 

Scangg

Heisman
Mar 19, 2016
25,469
49,418
113
Against the zone we really really really need oskar to be threat. We need it so bad cannot be over stated
Fans are demanding Oskar now lol. He is the best 3 point shooter statistically, but I doubt we see Oskar, Jones, or Agee as they are out of the rotation completely.
 
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Randal7

All-American
Jul 22, 2009
6,719
6,130
77
Fans are demanding Oskar now lol. He is the best 3 point shooter statistically, but I doubt we see Oskar, Jones, or Agee as they are out of the rotation completely.
I am simply stating we could really really really USE him. I agree ya can't trust him at all but it would be so so big if he could actually hit a shot
 
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RUChoppin

Heisman
Dec 1, 2006
19,270
13,695
0
Iowa didn’t play a normal zone against us.

In the ND/UVA game, they ran a bit of a 1-3-1 look, where the guy at the top and the guy in the middle would frequently switch with each other. Saw a little 2-3 vs. Duke, I think.

It doesn't look like their base defense at all - and their man defense didn't look very stout in the post, tbh. Definitely have a couple of guys with good lateral foot speed at the top.
 

Scangg

Heisman
Mar 19, 2016
25,469
49,418
113
I am simply stating we could really really really USE him. I agree ya can't trust him at all but it would be so so big if he could actually hit a shot
He's shooting 45.5% from 3 this year so he can actually hit a shot. That's not why he isn't playing
 
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