A Step in the Right Direction

[Cats192]

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What? I don’t understand this. All OP did was literally try and bring some positivity and highlights from the game including what he thought we did well

How does that constitute us “falling far?”

Nobody said we were world beaters, nobody even remotely alluded we’re where we need to be, nobody acted or said we were top notch. We literally just have like minded Kentucky FANS talking about some of the positives from our game tonight.

Sometimes it’s nice to just... ya know.... have a discussion that isn’t about how bad we suck or how terrible Herro and Hagans are or how far Cal has “slipped” or Wisemen/ Penny/ Memphis blah blah or how amazing Zion and duke is.

Try and not be jaded so much (in life.) I promise it’s worth it

I mean, if your ONLY goal in life is to be positive and talk about rainbows--I don't know what to tell you. It's not jaded to point out reality.
We once thought we were elite--now we're taking positives away from a win over Monmouth.

 

[armchairpg]

They played with energy for 40 minutes (or close to it) for the first time this season and made strides on defense. What is not to like? I saw active hands and feet and some deflections we had not seen previously. We did not let up much the whole game like we have been doing. Feel like everyone had an edge. While it is hard to tell how well this will translate to better opponents, but as long as we put up a fight I am on board. Looking for to Sat. it should be a step up or two.

Honestly, I think the team is getting on track and the only thing that worries me is the PG spot. For so long we have relied on that one guy that can drive and get a bucket and/or a foul when we need it. Just don't know who will get in the lane. Only Keldon seems to be trying to do that.

 

[Ky_Bred_Cat]

How easy it is to say "Monmouth is terrible" or "we'll know when we play xyz."

What we saw is this: this team can play well if they want to. At some point, very well.

I see no reason they can't compete with almost anyone if and when they decide to start imposing their will.

 

[TankedCat]

You're telling on yourself TankedCat. This preemptive "I was there when we blew out Monmouth" to excuse your premeditated slamming of the team in the event of a loss makes it very clear. And it doesn't count that you were here if you're only here to save face for later and be negative about the team. What you're telling me is that you think the team sucks and you want to say so. I think it's pretty clear where you're coming from on this. I understand your feelings. My brother and I (both lifelong UK fans) were complaining to each other over Thanksgiving about the way this team has played. We both lamented the Duke game. We both wondered where the team that played in the Bahamas went. We both complained about poor defense and not having the elite athletes we've had before. I hear you man. I haven't talked to my brother today yet, but I would say he would agree with me that last night's game (assuming he watched it), was a sign of life, a positive step.

Just for the record TankedCat, you can say that the game was a positive step without saying we're going to win anything. Is it really championship or bust? Would an Elite 8 be a good year? Or maybe a Final Four? If you can't be happy with a 46pt win and you already are preparing to blast the team after the next loss (which is sure to come), why follow this team? Seems a depressing pass-time.

I'm really not interested in baby steps as some people put it- primarily because I don't think we should be having a discussion about baby steps with this team.

As I said my criteria is pretty simple - get thru December without a loss and then everyone has something to be excited about - real progress.

Its not about preparing to blast the team, its acknowledging the unwritten rules of this board. If you only show up to complain after a loss you're a troll (the most overused word on the board, btw). And fwiw, I do find positives that aren't tied to us having to prop up a 0-7 team , for example our free throw shooting. This may be the best free throw shooting team Cal has ever had, and that should allow us to survive close games, especially in regards to the tournament.

But I'm not just the type to get excited about UK beating up bad teams. We beat UNC and Louisville - now the team, and by extension, Cal - has things going in the right direction.

And I'm definitely not excited at the idea when someone says we'll get a real test from UNC Greensboro.

Seriously? again - speaks to state of the program. If we truly are a top 10 team, then the test is when we play a another top 10 team. UNC and Louisville it appears will be the closest to that between now and Xmas I would assume. I haven't committed the schedule or other teams we play to memory.

 

[Joneslab]

I sort of agree we shouldn't be having the baby steps discussion.

But for whatever reason, we are. Can't just wave a magic wand or squeeze our eyes shut really tight and wish it weren't so. It's just a fact.

I think it probably comes down to the fact that we still have so many freshmen contributing, and our sophomores had not improved as much as we thought they could. Travis isn't the polished beast we sort of imagined he was. The mix of the team is a bit off. Etc.

But whatever the reason, it's there. It's obvious. You have to hope they can build off it and oddly because of all those things, blow-out wins might be helpful for their confidence. The sport of basketball is so much about confidence that it can't be understated.

 

[TankedCat]

I sort of agree we shouldn't be having the baby steps discussion.

But for whatever reason, we are. Can't just wave a magic wand or squeeze our eyes shut really tight and wish it weren't so. It's just a fact.

I think it probably comes down to the fact that we still have so many freshmen contributing, and our sophomores had not improved as much as we thought they could. Travis isn't the polished beast we sort of imagined he was. The mix of the team is a bit off. Etc.

But whatever the reason, it's there. It's obvious. You have to hope they can build off it and oddly because of all those things, blow-out wins might be helpful for their confidence. The sport of basketball is so much about confidence that it can't be understated.

I'm not arguing your points. What is frustrating me is this mentality we've adopted that we get 3 or 4 weeks of real basketball in late February / March of Kentucky standards basketball but for 80% of the season we should celebrate and get excited about a kid hitting a damn layup...and this is the norm....this is the process..

and if you point that out , you're a curmudgeon intent on ruining everyone's joy

 

[Joneslab]

I'm not arguing your points. What is frustrating me is this mentality we've adopted that we get 3 or 4 weeks of real basketball in late February / March of Kentucky standards basketball but for 80% of the season we should celebrate and get excited about a kid hitting a damn layup...and this is the norm....this is the process..

and if you point that out , you're a curmudgeon intent on ruining everyone's joy

The only thing I would point out is that Kentucky fans sometimes--not all the time, but sometimes--exaggerate how bad Kentucky really is.

Good example is 2011. People were convinced 2011 was a dog. But what you notice if you look back and you aren't blinded by emotion is that they were losing games by 1 or 2 points. They were playing well on the road in front of sell-outs and T-shirt nights and raging fans.

UK fans sometimes get lost in the fog of their own fandom. I've seen people say "Yeah, Cal's teams play junk basketball for months"--or else the old stand-by "Cal's players don't know to play real basketball"-- for years. And while that's true of certain teams, like last year's and 2013, it's not universal at all. More often than not Cal's teams are pretty strong early on.

 

[TankedCat]

The only thing I would point out is that Kentucky fans sometimes--not all the time, but sometimes--exaggerate how bad Kentucky really is.

Good example is 2011. People were convinced 2011 was a dog. But what you notice if you look back and you aren't blinded by emotion is that they were losing games by 1 or 2 points. They were playing well on the road in front of sell-outs and T-shirt nights and raging fans.

UK fans sometimes get lost in the fog of their own fandom. I've seen people say "Yeah, Cal's teams play junk basketball for months"--or else the old stand-by "Cal's players don't know to play real basketball"-- for years. And while that's true of certain teams, like last year's and 2013, it's not universal at all. More often than not Cal's teams are pretty strong early on.

perhaps, I focus more on trends year over year or lack thereof to drive my positions. At the same time , there are some so invested in defending the program they redefine success.

and just a point of context

""Yeah, Cal's teams play junk basketball for months" is said by both positive and negative fans, just in a different way. Earlier on here someone very positive on UK was telling me "everyone knows Cals team suck in November" - which was his approach to laying the groundwork for "but just wait until March"

so that junk basketball for months is pretty deeply embedded into the psyche of many, many UK fans whether they realize it or not.

 

[Joneslab]

perhaps, I focus more on trends year over year or lack thereof to drive my positions. At the same time , there are some so invested in defending the program they redefine success.

You could make the same point if you replaced the word "success" with "failure."

I think we could all say that last year was not a success by any measure. Most UK fans would agree with that.

Where it gets murky is a season like 2016 with Monk and Fox and those guys. Personally I see that as a success. Won 30+ games. Got beat on a last-second shot. Fun team to watch for the most part. Great players. It's hard to complain about that and not come off looking like you just can't be happy about anything.

Problem is when you start following those years up with 9- and 10-loss teams that don't make runs in the tournament. If Cal doesn't get back to a Final Four this year, that'll be a long drought. He'll officially be in that purgatory area where it'd be really hard to call for his firing, but it will also be to the point where he'll have lost a certain part of the fanbase. It won't be Tubbyesque but it'll be approaching that.

 

[TankedCat]

You could make the same point if you replaced the word "success" with "failure."

I think we could all say that last year was not a success by any measure. Most UK fans would agree with that.

Where it gets murky is a season like 2016 with Monk and Fox and those guys. Personally I see that as a success. Won 30+ games. Got beat on a last-second shot. Fun team to watch for the most part. Great players. It's hard to complain about that and not come off looking like you just can't be happy about anything.

Problem is when you start following those years up with 9- and 10-loss teams that don't make runs in the tournament. If Cal doesn't get back to a Final Four this year, that'll be a long drought. He'll officially be in that purgatory area where it'd be really hard to call for his firing, but it will also be to the point where he'll have lost a certain part of the fanbase. It won't be Tubbyesque but it'll be approaching that.

again, no argument. I'm not blasting anyone who thinks Monk and Fox were a good team. I loved them for beating UNC the first time. But 10 years from that season will be just another elite 8 and will provide ammo for those inclined to not define an elite 8 as a good year. I'm reluctant to buy into the 1 shot away or bad ref argument.

But let me be clear here - at the moment, a term I use quite frequently. there is no other coach for the University of Kentucky. There is only one man who can lead this program and that is John Calipari. But he's stubbon and I can't say with certainty that he has the drive necessary to implement changes necessary to get us back into a title game.

 

[FrankUnderwood]

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I mean, if your ONLY goal in life is to be positive and talk about rainbows--I don't know what to tell you. It's not jaded to point out reality.
We once thought we were elite--now we're taking positives away from a win over Monmouth.

Who mentioned “rainbows?”

 

[FLawLesS_NoLe]

The problem with these types of games is that you like what you see but you cant expect to consistently get that same result because Monmouth is horrifically bad. 0-8 and they can't beat other crappy teams. It's best not to take much from this game or you potentially set yourself up for disappointment.

UNC Greensboro is a much better game to learn about the team. Or to make a thread about a step in the right direction

 

[Louis_Skunt]

Yeah, actually you can tell a lot against from the Monmouth game. We were in the passing lanes more. We were rotating and protecting the weak side better. In others words there was many things we performed technically better than any game we’ve played on defense. Don’t get me wrong. Our defense is still piss weak. UNC will shred us if it doesn’t improve. That said, we came a LONG way in our execution of a defensive strategy. You gotta be a blind man not to see it.

We still have a long way to go. Very long way. This should be a lesson to some about the desperate state our defense was in.

Did you used to post on the Herald Leader board 10-12 years ago?