8 man cutoff

[Buff-alo]

My last attempt to educate and I'm done. I do have to prep for my two classes that my student teacher doesn't have. Our current count is supposed to be 60. Since that number was sent in to the NSAA by class we have 23 Senior Boys, of those boys 9 are not able to play due to physical disability, age ineligibility, have moved, language barrier, or economic (hold a job after school). The Junior Class has 18 and 8 are not able to play due to physical disability, age ineligibility, have moved, language barrier, or economic (hold a job after school). The Sophomore Class has 19 and 8 are not able to play due to physical disability, have moved, and language barriers (age will become an issue in the next couple years). So by my math that leaves me with a pool of 35 to make a football team from. Of that 35 I have 22 that make up my current football roster (5 freshman on current roster, but they are not a part of the 60 count the NSAA is currently using). I can honestly say there are 5 more I wish I could get out that don't, but they are "basketball specialist".

But to say that because we opt down from C2, that magically makes our boys bigger/faster/stronger than the D1 boys that we are apparently "abusing" is ignorance. By my numbers we are in the Class we are supposed to be in, unfortunately we just can't make the play-offs and we have to live with that. Have a great rest of the day everyone. As always, I love to shed light and share about our situation and why we do what we do, whether you agree with us our not.

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

Opting down (or up) is something that should be solely up to the football coach (in this case), AD, and players on the team. The school board shouldn't have a say. Some random guy on a message board shouldn't have a say. Unless you walk in the shoes of the teams that choose to opt up or down, don't comment because you don't know what they are experiencing.

Regarding the rule...I am fine with making teams ineligible that opt down. I am fine with them being able to opt down. The 2 things that I would like to change are
1- If a team that is supposed to be D1 plays a team that opts down from C2 to D1 I think they should still get the 2 bonus points for playing a team from a larger classification.
2- I don't think teams that opt down should be placed in districts. I don't say that as a "punishment". I look at the current C2-6 district and see a problem. The district has 6 teams and 2 of them opt down. 33% of the district is ineligible. I think it would be better to not place those teams in a district, but still offer them an 8-9 game schedule. Those teams could still play games against some of the teams in their area (Gordon-Rushville vs Bridgeport) but it wouldn't count towards district standings because G-R wouldn't technically be in the district.

Just my two cents.

Buff-alo, I applaud you for standing up for your program, not hiding your identity behind a computer screen, and looking at the best interests of your student-athletes. Until someone has walked in your shoes, they won't understand what it is like. Keep on keepin' on.

I agree with one point for sure, opting down teams should not be in districts and also opting down teams should not have a full schedule if a team that is playoff eligible does not, otherwise fill the teams that count first

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

My last attempt to educate and I'm done. I do have to prep for my two classes that my student teacher doesn't have. Our current count is supposed to be 60. Since that number was sent in to the NSAA by class we have 23 Senior Boys, of those boys 9 are not able to play due to physical disability, age ineligibility, have moved, language barrier, or economic (hold a job after school). The Junior Class has 18 and 8 are not able to play due to physical disability, age ineligibility, have moved, language barrier, or economic (hold a job after school). The Sophomore Class has 19 and 8 are not able to play due to physical disability, have moved, and language barriers (age will become an issue in the next couple years). So by my math that leaves me with a pool of 35 to make a football team from. Of that 35 I have 22 that make up my current football roster (5 freshman on current roster, but they are not a part of the 60 count the NSAA is currently using). I can honestly say there are 5 more I wish I could get out that don't, but they are "basketball specialist".

But to say that because we opt down from C2, that magically makes our boys bigger/faster/stronger than the D1 boys that we are apparently "abusing" is ignorance. By my numbers we are in the Class we are supposed to be in, unfortunately we just can't make the play-offs and we have to live with that. Have a great rest of the day everyone. As always, I love to shed light and share about our situation and why we do what we do, whether you agree with us our not.

i respect your opinion and you sound like you have a situation but sorry does not change my thought on the rule, second if your saying ELL and social economics and physical disability effect schools, what is your stance on private schools, should they have a multiplier on them ? But I still say the rule should be changed and 41 other states agree

 

[runningback43]

This wouldn't work in B, C-1 and C-2 but it might work in D-1. Put the teams that opt down to 8 man in the same district and have them only play each other. Either that or give the teams 5 points for playing a team that has opted down. If a C-2 team plays a C-1 team in basketball they get 5 points for playing up.

 

[ULTFO]

First of highschoolfootballnut, I am a coach at a school that has competed often against teams who opted down, including Wakefield. I have ZERO issues with a team opting down, and I do not feel my team should get some extra "bonus" points for playing them. I do not believe your views would align with most of the people/teams that compete against ineligible teams. We understand why they make the choices they do. In Buff-alo's case, as an opposing coach, he and his program have my full support. It is opinions like yours that make it a drama that it is not. I am sorry that it offends your sense of right and wrong, but please understand that the majority of 8-man coaches and teams have ZERO issue with teams opting down. They made a tough decision that it was in their best interest and in some cases, Buff-alo is one, it revives a program. They should be admired for all the hard work and all the hard decisions that they had to make.

As for saying they are "abusing" the rule, I do not think very many of the 8-man coaches in the state view it that way. Everyone has o do what is best for their program, I wish more people would understand that instead of crying "foul" over this issue.

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

First of highschoolfootballnut, I am a coach at a school that has competed often against teams who opted down, including Wakefield. I have ZERO issues with a team opting down, and I do not feel my team should get some extra "bonus" points for playing them. I do not believe your views would align with most of the people/teams that compete against ineligible teams. We understand why they make the choices they do. In Buff-alo's case, as an opposing coach, he and his program have my full support. It is opinions like yours that make it a drama that it is not. I am sorry that it offends your sense of right and wrong, but please understand that the majority of 8-man coaches and teams have ZERO issue with teams opting down. They made a tough decision that it was in their best interest and in some cases, Buff-alo is one, it revives a program. They should be admired for all the hard work and all the hard decisions that they had to make.

As for saying they are "abusing" the rule, I do not think very many of the 8-man coaches in the state view it that way. Everyone has o do what is best for their program, I wish more people would understand that instead of crying "foul" over this issue.

I respect that and get your view, it is a right vs wrong thing for me, I do think it would greatly help to just put those teams in their own group and play each other, or at least give schools the option to play them or not. I think then you would have no argument against it. BUFF does that sound fair Schools that opt down, only get full schedules if all other teams that can make playoffs are full, they are not put in districts and schools can choose to opt to not play and not have them on their schedule

 

[MacMan92]

I count 13 schools across all classes who have opted down and are ineligible for the playoffs. These teams are a staggering 26-40 this year. I'm not sure this is quite the plague of domination it is being made out to be.

 

[ULTFO]

I respect that and get your view, it is a right vs wrong thing for me, I do think it would greatly help to just put those teams in their own group and play each other, or at least give schools the option to play them or not. I think then you would have no argument against it. BUFF does that sound fair Schools that opt down, only get full schedules if all other teams that can make playoffs are full, they are not put in districts and schools can choose to opt to not play and not have them on their schedule

There is no right or wrong on this for someone looking in from the outside. It is something each school has to make a tough decision on and they are doing what is "right" for them. As for forming just a district of teams that are not eligible, distance makes that unrealistic. As for saying that schools can opt to not have them on their schedule, again not realistic. The NSAA does a great job trying to get schedules for everyone, let's not handicap them with this kind of handcuff. At one time schools could choose not to play them, that was back when we all made our own schedule. The NSAA took over scheduling to eliminate this problem. Back when Fall City Sacred Heart was in the middle of their run, many teams refused to play them. We do not want to go back to this. The schools who are making the decision to opt down are not hurting anyone they play against. I am sorry that people feel otherwise, but I am directly effected by this, as is my team, and we have never ever been hurt by playing a team that was not eligible for the playoffs. Heck, if Millard South wants to declare for 8-man next cycle, I would put them on my schedule, they can only put 8 on the field, just like us.

 

[JAW20]

wish that made sense but get it, usually know you have won an argument with that person when they start with the insults

The insulting part is what you apparently expect kids/families to do, just to be able to play football. I guess you now have to be upper-middle class to be able to play football in small towns now. Finding transportation/$$ to get kids to and from school/practices every day would be very tough for me, let alone someone deeper in poverty.

Don't kill me for sticking up for kids/families that can't adhere to your ignorant beliefs.

The answers you gave weren't logical and/or didn't even make sense. Like I said, DM me and we can set up sometime to see for yourself.

Also, @ULTFO appreciate your comment. We know that teams that embrace competition have no problem with it, and enjoy being able to play on an even playing field.

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

The insulting part is what you apparently expect kids/families to do, just to be able to play football. I guess you now have to be upper-middle class to be able to play football in small towns now. Finding transportation/$$ to get kids to and from school/practices every day would be very tough for me, let alone someone deeper in poverty.

Don't kill me for sticking up for kids/families that can't adhere to your ignorant beliefs.

The answers you gave weren't logical and/or didn't even make sense. Like I said, DM me and we can set up sometime to see for yourself.

Also, @ULTFO appreciate your comment. We know that teams that embrace competition have no problem with it, and enjoy being able to play on an even playing field.

I find it interesting that, your ok with opting but not okay with any changes or additional cost. just seems you want it your way and nothing else, very very typical

 

[JAW20]

I find it interesting that, your ok with opting but not okay with any changes or additional cost. just seems you want it your way and nothing else, very very typical

I’ve already offered twice for you to come see for yourself, I’ll show you.... not completely sure what you mean by changes or additional cost, your answers are always vague and don’t make sense.
Please give me some details on some of your solutions, and I’ll surely let you know what I think.

 

[JAW20]

I count 13 schools across all classes who have opted down and are ineligible for the playoffs. These teams are a staggering 26-40 this year. I'm not sure this is quite the plague of domination it is being made out to be.

Quit making so much sense!

 

[Llama57]

i respect your opinion and you sound like you have a situation but sorry does not change my thought on the rule, second if your saying ELL and social economics and physical disability effect schools, what is your stance on private schools, should they have a multiplier on them ? But I still say the rule should be changed and 41 other states agree

Yup, 100% on private schools. They should take on the enrollment from every district they take students from. I understand Prep, Marian, & Pius won't have any consequences. I can name numerous scenarios that kids go to parochial schools purely for a sports program. If it's about the religious education experience, sports classifications shouldn't matter if they're getting the education they want. After all, isn't education what it's all about??

 

[Buff-alo]

Lunch break... only thing I am answering to is the Private School Multiplier. Honestly don't think it will change a thing. Other states have tried it and it has changed little, private schools will always be private schools. I used to believe a private school multiplier might help, but as I've grayed a little not so much anymore. I am not trying to make this a public/private debate, because those discussions go NO WHERE on this board.

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

I’ve already offered twice for you to come see for yourself, I’ll show you.... not completely sure what you mean by changes or additional cost, your answers are always vague and don’t make sense.
Please give me some details on some of your solutions, and I’ll surely let you know what I think.

Buf i was just asking your thoughts on, if teams were given a choice not to play Opt teams are you for that and the change of not adding opt teams to districts, that reason is because in the past a few districts had 2 or 3 teams that couldn't go to state in a 5 or team district making-a district of only 3 teams that could even go to playoffs and last are you for all schedules full, but if someone has to be short a game, it is opting teams first ?

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

Lunch break... only thing I am answering to is the Private School Multiplier. Honestly don't think it will change a thing. Other states have tried it and it has changed little, private schools will always be private schools. I used to believe a private school multiplier might help, but as I've grayed a little not so much anymore. I am not trying to make this a public/private debate, because those discussions go NO WHERE on this board.

I get that, I was just saying if those reasons you gave are true disadvantages, then you are saying private schools have true advantage Correct ?

 

[Buff-alo]

I think everyone realizes that Private Schools are definitely able to be more selective with their student population which definitely gives them a bigger pool to probably draw from. It can give an advantage, but still need a coach to guide them in the right direction. Biggest advantage would probably be they don’t have the ebs and flows that public schools suffer through with talent year to year.

As for the district thing and schedule, I sat through a 2 hour presentation by Nate Neuhaus of the NSAA this summer on how they do the schedule every 2 years and I have a new found respect for the NSAA in terms of what they do and how they pull it off. It’s pretty amazing. So after sitting through that I’m going to tell you that it’s not feasible for the NSAA as it would cause chaos with their entire planning system.

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

I think everyone realizes that Private Schools are definitely able to be more selective with their student population which definitely gives them a bigger pool to probably draw from. It can give an advantage, but still need a coach to guide them in the right direction. Biggest advantage would probably be they don’t have the ebs and flows that public schools suffer through with talent year to year.

As for the district thing and schedule, I sat through a 2 hour presentation by Nate Neuhaus of the NSAA this summer on how they do the schedule every 2 years and I have a new found respect for the NSAA in terms of what they do and how they pull it off. It’s pretty amazing. So after sitting through that I’m going to tell you that it’s not feasible for the NSAA as it would cause chaos with their entire planning system.

I will agree, it is amazing they schedule all schools and amazing they get it done, so will give you that for sure, I also watch a presentation on that about 5 years ago and you are right, it would be difficult but they could do it and easier yet, just do not add them to a district would very very simple

 

[JAW20]

Buf i was just asking your thoughts on, if teams were given a choice not to play Opt teams are you for that and the change of not adding opt teams to districts, that reason is because in the past a few districts had 2 or 3 teams that couldn't go to state in a 5 or team district making-a district of only 3 teams that could even go to playoffs and last are you for all schedules full, but if someone has to be short a game, it is opting teams first ?

Man, I'm still not completely following...... That was all jumbled into one sentence. Are you asking if I'm ok with teams choosing not to play us? Like I said, come visit with me, I will show you numbers/etc, and you can see first hand why I think we should be eligible. I have personally talked to a head coach of a team in the state that is top 3, and wishes they could make it work to play us since we already lost a game. Alot of coaches understand our dynamic and know that playing our team will only make them better.

Are you saying teams shouldn't play parochial schools either? And what do you mean with additional cost, like travel?

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

Man, I'm still not completely following...... That was all jumbled into one sentence. Are you asking if I'm ok with teams choosing not to play us? Like I said, come visit with me, I will show you numbers/etc, and you can see first hand why I think we should be eligible. I have personally talked to a head coach of a team in the state that is top 3, and wishes they could make it work to play us since we already lost a game. Alot of coaches understand our dynamic and know that playing our team will only make them better.

Are you saying teams shouldn't play parochial schools either? And what do you mean with additional cost, like travel?

well Jaw it wasn't to you so no worries. This is to you Jaw again all I hear is why can't they just change the rules so we get what we want everybody has got issues You think you are the only one. I agree though you are completely with in the rule, I am just arguing the rule needs revised, to at least remove those schools from districts and make sure all playoff eligible teams have a full schedule before ineligible teams do

 

[JAW20]

well Jaw it wasn't to you so no worries. This is to you Jaw again all I hear is why can't they just change the rules so we get what we want everybody has got issues You think you are the only one. I agree though you are completely with in the rule, I am just arguing the rule needs revised, to at least remove those schools from districts and make sure all playoff eligible teams have a full schedule before ineligible teams do

When have I ever said to change the rules?!?!

 

[LikeNebraska]

Ok, stop.....



Does JAW = BUFF when BUFF = JAW?

Inquiring Minds wanna know...

 

[Buff-alo]

Nope... not the same guy. Why would I put my name and school phone number on here and then have a second account.... really? I have nothing to hide. I’m on here to educate people on our situation and give facts when people make false assumptions.

 

[LikeNebraska]

Nope... not the same guy. Why would I put my name and school phone number on here and then have a second account.... really? I have nothing to hide. I’m on here to educate people on our situation and give facts when people make false assumptions.

Just tryin' to lighten things up. I support you, Coach.

 

[JAW20]

I know Buff..... And he knows Me!!!! ---James Earl Jones voice from Sandlot! Lol, but I think we are both really passionate and care about our kids, if you can't tell!

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

I know Buff..... And he knows Me!!!! ---James Earl Jones voice from Sandlot! Lol, but I think we are both really passionate and care about our kids, if you can't tell!

Good luck to both and your team, this thread was started to disagree with the rule, not wakefield issues, I do not like the rule, and believe at least two changes are needed #1 do not add teams not eligible to districts and #two just make sure teams who are eligible get a full schedule before teams who are not.

 

[4xAllConference]

Oh man my head hurts now reading all of this. I'm a head coach in an 8 man school. I support teams that opt down because I understand the struggle. A few years ago we almost qualified as 11 man but participation numbers show that we could realistically play 6 man. I honestly think that adding 9 man class would benefit a lot of people. It would be an easy adjustment.

 

[GoSkers3]

Good luck to both and your team, this thread was started to disagree with the rule, not wakefield issues, I do not like the rule, and believe at least two changes are needed #1 do not add teams not eligible to districts and #two just make sure teams who are eligible get a full schedule before teams who are not.

Don't forget #3 - which is to not let nut's team lose to a team that has opted down!

Nut, I think you just need to realize that some programs are just trying to do what's best for their program - PERIOD.

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

Don't forget #3 - which is to not let nut's team lose to a team that has opted down!

Nut, I think you just need to realize that some programs are just trying to do what's best for their program - PERIOD.

LOL. I do not think that will ever happen but who knows

 

[JAW20]

Don't forget #3 - which is to not let nut's team lose to a team that has opted down!

Nut, I think you just need to realize that some programs are just trying to do what's best for their program - PERIOD.

Won't happen, haven't you heard him already..... He'll just refuse to play those darned teams that opt down!

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

Won't happen, haven't you heard him already..... He'll just refuse to play those darned teams that opt down!

LOL we play one every year and they are not very good at all

 

[nenebskers]

What's your opinion of South Sioux, Nebraska City, Schuyler, Valentine, Gordon-Rushville, and Gibbon opting down? All can field a 11man team but would be uncompetitive in the class the qualify for. Heck, most are uncompetitive in the class they have opted down into. Its a differant scenario than Wakefield, Madison, Ravenna, Palmyra, Connestoga, etc... Curious on your thoughts.

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

What's your opinion of South Sioux, Nebraska City, Schuyler, Valentine, Gordon-Rushville, and Gibbon opting down? All can field a 11man team but would be uncompetitive in the class the qualify for. Heck, most are uncompetitive in the class they have opted down into. Its a differant scenario than Wakefield, Madison, Ravenna, Palmyra, Connestoga, etc... Curious on your thoughts.

One dont add them to a district, with auto qualifier it messes things up and sometimes two end up in a district of five, #two fill games of eligible teams first, seems odd a team that actually can go to state playoffs is a game short but a team that can not has a full schedule. Thats just stupid

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

What's your opinion of South Sioux, Nebraska City, Schuyler, Valentine, Gordon-Rushville, and Gibbon opting down? All can field a 11man team but would be uncompetitive in the class the qualify for. Heck, most are uncompetitive in the class they have opted down into. Its a differant scenario than Wakefield, Madison, Ravenna, Palmyra, Connestoga, etc... Curious on your thoughts.

And has far as my official opinion Play in your class or dont play, but a can live with it if we just make a couple commonsense rules

 

[Big Red Thoughts]

First i do not know who you or your school even are, second I have complained with letting teams opt down forever and do not believe in it. I think opting down, shares the problem of one school and makes it the problem of many schools now. What school are you from ? In reality I dont care what school you are from, if your opting down I think its wrong, regardless of what ever your reason is. Instead of opting, maybe play another sport instead or coop or those who want football open enroll to another school, I hate opting because it is the everyone gets a ribbon mentality, nice repy but believe it or not, everything isnt about you and your school, win or lose opting down is wrong

Here he goes again!! Does anyone have a mute button!’

 

[LikeNebraska]

I know Buff..... And he knows Me!!!! ---

I hope not "in the buff" or my JAW will drop.

"THIS IS CNN"

 

[huskerfan1414]

People are being real jerks to nut in this thread. I dont have to agree with what hes saying to see that he makes valid points. He isnt the anti christ people, calm down. Its a bad look.

If I were to sum up what Im reading, opting down seems to be working for schools. They get to play and the teams who are in the correct classificiation get to move on in the playoffs. I dont see what the problem is.

Its impossible to have a perfect system as every school has advantages and disadvantages, they ebb and flow, and whats a disadvatage at one school isnt at another.
Seems the current system is working ok.

 

[LikeNebraska]

People are being real jerks to nut in this thread. I dont have to agree with what hes saying to see that he makes valid points. He isnt the anti christ people, calm down. Its a bad look.

If I were to sum up what Im reading, opting down seems to be working for schools. They get to play and the teams who are in the correct classificiation get to move on in the playoffs. I dont see what the problem is.

Its impossible to have a perfect system as every school has advantages and disadvantages, they ebb and flow, and whats a disadvatage at one school isnt at another.
Seems the current system is working ok.

Poor nut.....

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

Poor nut.....

LOL. its all good, some people can debate points some people just get angry and can not You will always have haters

 

[JAW20]

LOL. its all good, some people can debate points some people just get angry and can not You will always have haters

Great job explaining yourself..... Now we're getting somewhere!