2nd Platoon reporting for duty?

[MdWIldcat55]

Okay, before you roast me, at least consider this:

With the lavish praise Wenyen, and now Killeya-Jones are getting from Cal, it opens the door a crack to a two-platoon system that would have intriguingly different strengths. If not full platoons, at least a 'Blue Team' that would come in for 3-4 minutes a half and force teams to completely alter the defense.

1st: Fox, Monk, Briscoe, Bam, Humphries. Full-on attacking the basket, with tenacious 'ball-mauling' defense a hallmark. Bam and Humphries give you much needed rebounding and rim defense. This team would force opponents to pack back into a zone.

2nd: Then come in with Hawkins, a senior who has certainly shown adequate PG ability, Mulder, who looked really good shooting the other night, Willis, ditto on the shooting, and a pair of lively, aggressive 6'10'' forwards in Gabriel and SKJ.

That second line-up would have real shooters and force an entirely different defensive look...at which point you go back to platoon 1. It would give Cal a way to get some really talented players on the floor and keep the starters fresh all season.

 

[WildMoon]

Nah. I rather first focus on the top 5 players.

Considering these are most likely freshman, we'll need to give them all kind of different situation.

 

[sefus12]

Unless Monk or Fox turn into 45% 3 Pt shooters, every team we play would pack a zone within twelve feet of the basket and force us to beat them shooting. I don't like the thought of playing Bam with Hump and those three guards. You HAVE to have a shooter to space the floor. No way around it.

 

[Cattoyz]

No

 

[JonathanW_rivals]

I loved the 15 platoon team/system, at least until Poythress injury.

But, NO!!!!!!!!!!!!

It worked in 15 because there was very little difference in the 1st team and the 2nd team.
That would not be the case this year.

 

[LadyCaytIL]

hell no to platooning with this group. I want Fox, Monk and Bam out there as much as possible.

 

[Cats78]

No.

 

[LadyCaytIL]

platooning means they get close to equal time........... not just a 5 for 5 sub..... I dont mind our starters playing 8 minutes... then 5 subs allowing the B team to get 3 minutes... then back to the starters........but the whole platooning in and out to equal the time.............. heck no because Monk is that much better than Mulder, Fox is that much better than Hawkins and Bam is just that much better than every other big we have.

 

[caneintally]

We will play 8-9 guys a ton but I don't see the mass substition thing ever used again. the 5 starters ( the 3 guards Bam and Willis ) will play along with SKJ , Gabriel , Hawkins and Humphries .

 

[DelkBowl]

Cal said he won't. He can't lose credibility with recruits by doing it again this soon after stating he wouldn't do it again. That's as much of a lock as you can get.

 

[Joneslab]

There's a better chance that I get minutes than Cal platooning.

Some of these guys are going to sound good on paper, but in actuality they're not going to be ready to perform in '16-'17. Hope springs eternal, at least until the games start. Happens every year.

 

[JonathanW_rivals]

There needs to be some way to get minutes for a guy like Mulder -- if he gets back to shooting the way he can -- Gabriel and SKJ. Not to mention Hawkins.

But I can see the idea of 5-on-5 substitutions has scarred the BBN.

It's not about being scared of the platoon. It's just not the right situation for a platoon. Big dropoff from 1st 5 to 2nd 5. In 15 the first 5 alone would have been a top 5 team, and the 2nd 5 a top 10 team.

I think a better option would be to redshirt Mulder. Very good chance we return no one shorter than 6'9 next year. Be nice to have 1. I think next year he could be in the 8 man rotation.

 

[Hoskins91_rivals]

Hawkins will play, it will just be as a reserve, and that's how it should be until he improves offensively. I think it's also presumptuous to name Humphries a starter as well. The money is still on the three guards, Bam at center, and one of Gabriel or Willis.

 

[Orange Soda King]

I doubt it'll happen.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

I mean, platooning WAS working for a while. We ran UCLA and Kansas out of the building.

But you need two things.. 1. the energy and defense have to be there. It only works if our players are going 100% while the other teams drop down to 80% because of their energy. and 2. you HAVE to get shooters going.

 

[CELTICAT]

I do think we'll see a larger rotation than usual with 8, but I don't think Mulder will be a part of that. Fox, Monk, and Briscoe will start but may only be on the floor together 15-20 minutes a game. Bam and Hump with start, with Gabriel and SKJ behind them, with Willis getting run as a third forward or stretch 4. Hawkins will be be used in case of foul trouble in the back court. Just mho of course.

 

[buckkiller]

I think u go Bam and Willis in the paint with Willis being able to stretch D pull the 4 away from the basket. Then Fox ,Monk, Briscoe as guards and wings. Then You use Hump,Gab, and SKJ to spell the 4 and 5 spots then u have Mulder,Hawkins and Gab to spell the 1-3 spots etc.. I think that is my Gut on How Cal Is going to play it. I got a feeling Willis starts at 4 cause of 1 his experience and 2 his shooting. I can see Gab spelling Monk 1abot 8-12 minutes a game then maybe Seeing SKJ Spelling Bam about the same give or take. Plus mi utes will change up if you want to go big etc.. He can get really creative with lineups for sure.

 

[letitrainuk_rivals88012]

Any lead the 1st team had would be gone in a few minutes with the 2nd team. IMO.

 

[Aike]

I think there will be too much talent drop off to do anything like this.

Your top 4 guys are going to play a lot. After those 4, you have guy's who are talented in certain areas, but also flawed.

Logically, Willis is the next guy to jump up and get major minutes. Then guys like Humphries, Gabriel, and SKJ will get their chances.

Truthfully, any of those last three guys could be getting 20 minutes a game by March - or none. We really don't know enough yet to make that judgment.

Hawkins has shown himself to be a dependable reserve, and barring injury, that's what he'll be again. Pencil him in for 10 minutes a night.

Mulder will have to be more valuable as a reserve than Hawkins to get any run. Theoretically, Mulder could rob Willis of minutes, but that seems less likely than taking minutes from Hawkins.

Mulder won't get any of Gabriel's minutes, unless we get to March and he has drastically underperformed. The young guys will always get their chances early and often.

 

[chroix]

Nope. But it never hurts to have lots of quality subs. Everybody can go balls to the walls the whole time and catch a breather with little drop off. No need for five for five subbing.

 

[Drcatfan]

Platooning was a mistake even the year we did it. Cal did it to satisfy being overloaded with loaded with talent that year because he had some unexpected returns. I understand his reasoning and wouldn't second guess Cal who is looking at single season success as well as keeping long term recruiting in mind.

I think Fox, Briscoe, Monk, and Fox will play all the minutes they can handle. I think the 5th starter spot as well as reserve minutes are open competition. I think Willis has the inside track on the 5th starter spot. If Gabriel, SKJ, or Humphrey beat out Willis that is a good thing because it means they are playing very well.

 

[UK’98UK’00]

There's a better chance that I get minutes than Cal platooning.

Some of these guys are going to sound good on paper, but in actuality they're not going to be ready to perform in '16-'17. Hope springs eternal, at least until the games start. Happens every year.

Size, weight, vertical, wingspan, shooting percentage, 3 pt. shooting percentage, free-throw percentage, years of eligibility left?

 

[Joneslab]

Size, weight, vertical, wingspan, shooting percentage, 3 pt. shooting percentage, free-throw percentage, years of eligibility left?

I'm 6'7" 240 pounds of pure ripped muscle and would have gone pro but, you know, my knee.

 

[Jmeeks54thebest]

I would love to platoon. We have to spread out the shooting though. It's such an advantage to play 10 vs 5 in terms of minutes with everybody playing on fresh legs. Would also prevent injuries.

However it negatively impacts our recruiting in a big way. So unfortunately I don't think it's a viable option since our program now depends on huge classes every year.

 

[bucsrule8872]

No.

But if we platooned, I would go:

Fox
Hawkins
Gabriel
Willis
Adebayo

Briscoe
Monk
Mulder
Killeya-Jones
Humphries

 

[BigBlueManSouthCentralKY]

Cal talked like eight will play the most. Willis, Fox, Monk, Bam, Briscoe, Humphries, Jones and Gabriel and Hawkins as 8 and 8A according to situation. Defense and rebounding should be powerful.

 

[westerncat]

I would love to platoon. We have to spread out the shooting though. It's such an advantage to play 10 vs 5 in terms of minutes with everybody playing on fresh legs. Would also prevent injuries.

However it negatively impacts our recruiting in a big way. So unfortunately I don't think it's a viable option since our program now depends on huge classes every year.

I agree with this. Don't think you will see platooning any this year.

 

[caneintally]

Hawkins will play, it will just be as a reserve, and that's how it should be until he improves offensively. I think it's also presumptuous to name Humphries a starter as well. The money is still on the three guards, Bam at center, and one of Gabriel or Willis.

Hawkins is light years better on offensive then he was a freshman . He can make 3's and drive decently as well. He won't play a ton ( though he will play a decent amount ) due to having 3 of the top 10 guards in college basketball in front of him.

 

[caneintally]

Cal talked like eight will play the most. Willis, Fox, Monk, Bam, Briscoe, Humphries, Jones and Gabriel and Hawkins as 8 and 8A according to situation. Defense and rebounding should be powerful.

This is spot on .

 

[bucsrule8872]

Cal talked like eight will play the most. Willis, Fox, Monk, Bam, Briscoe, Humphries, Jones and Gabriel and Hawkins as 8 and 8A according to situation. Defense and rebounding should be powerful.

I could see this, but SKJ may be too good to keep out of the rotation.

Will be interesting to see who ends up getting most of the minutes.

 

[JPScott]

platooning means they get close to equal time........... not just a 5 for 5 sub.....

That's not accurate. One could set up a situation where one squad plays say 7-8 minutes and a second units comes in for 2-3 minutes. This type of strategy has been used in the past, although don't know if it's been used at the collegiate level.

There's actually a lot of variation that could be employed when using platoons, something that its critics seem to ignore.

Note that while I was a strong proponent of platoons for the 2014-15 team, that was because it had a lot of factors which made it possible. Things like having two elite point guards, having a deep bench with not much drop off in talent, having enough players a each position, or at least they were versatile enough to cover all positions etc. And most importantly they had the maturity and humility to be willing to sacrifice minutes for the good of the team.

I don't know that this current team, or any other Calipari teams are as uniquely set-up as the 2014-15 team was, where platoons would work.

 

[JPScott]

I mean, platooning WAS working for a while. We ran UCLA and Kansas out of the building.

Platoons worked beautifully in 2014-15 when it was used. UK was able to achieve a level of statistical dominance which was at a different level than any other Calipari team, even the 2012 team.

In fact the platoons continued to work even after Poythress' injury. Unfortunately, it became more and more clear as the year the went on that the more Calipari went away from platoons, the more they started to resemble other Cal teams which played a shorter bench. (i.e. still very good but not nearly as dominant statistically.)

 

[JPScott]

Platooning was a mistake even the year we did it.

Couldn't be more wrong IMO.

The only mistake was going away from it. Platooning allowed UK to play at a level which was not attainable with any other lineup. It truly allowed the team to play better than the sum of the individuals.

BTW, I understand that Calipari seemed to get skittish during the season probably due to blowback he received on the recruiting trail over platooning. But that is odd to me, since it seems Calipari seems to be able to take negative recruiting head-on and not change his strategy based on negative comments others are saying (something which will happen regardless).

For example he was able to do quite well, and make it a strength, that Anthony Davis and MKG were drafted #1 and #2 in the draft, even though they were #4 and #5 on their team in FGA (something which I'm sure rival recruiters tried to gain an advantage on).

Calipari was extremely successful using platoons, and if he had stuck with it I am confidant UK would have won the title going away that season. I'm sure Calipari could have not only withstood, but made it a positive going forward.

 

[Aike]

Couldn't be more wrong IMO.

The only mistake was going away from it. Platooning allowed UK to play at a level which was not attainable with any other lineup. It truly allowed the team to play better than the sum of the individuals.

BTW, I understand that Calipari seemed to get skittish during the season probably due to blowback he received on the recruiting trail over platooning. But that is odd to me, since it seems Calipari seems to be able to take negative recruiting head-on and not change his strategy based on negative comments others are saying (something which will happen regardless).

For example he was able to do quite well, and make it a strength, that Anthony Davis and MKG were drafted #1 and #2 in the draft, even though they were #4 and #5 on their team in FGA (something which I'm sure rival recruiters tried to gain an advantage on).

Calipari was extremely successful using platoons, and if he had stuck with it I am confidant UK would have won the title going away that season. I'm sure Calipari could have not only withstood, but made it a positive going forward.

I think Cal became skittish about the variance with platooning.

If you stick a unit out there for 4 minutes and they are flat, how big a hole do you dig?

When their turn to play comes around again, do you play them? What if they are still flat? Did you just blow 20% of a tournament game?

On paper, I think you're right about platooning. You might've been right in practice, too.

But ultimately, Cal felt he needed the control and game management that went with going away from the platoon. He thought it would reduce variance, and he thought we would still win.

He was wrong, but we'll never be certain if he would have been right the other way.

 

[Jakarii]

Actually you need a third thing, the second into talent should be comparable to the first unit, that's not even close to being the case this year

I mean, platooning WAS working for a while. We ran UCLA and Kansas out of the building.

But you need two things.. 1. the energy and defense have to be there. It only works if our players are going 100% while the other teams drop down to 80% because of their energy. and 2. you HAVE to get shooters going.

 

[morgousky]

The one thing people always seem to forget about cal is he doesn't like long rosters. He has said this before. If he had his way he'd prefer 6 solid guys logging most minutes. It's the best way to be effective. These guys are hella conditioned today. The game isn't long enough to warrant playing 10 guys when you have 6 that are lights out.

Also it helps with continuity. The closer that group is the better. The only reason we platooned in the dfiret place last year was of returnees and cal standing by his "players first" selling point. Basically saying if you do return, you will play, regardless of roster.

And as we saw cal simplified the roster as the year went on. He didn't stick with it when the important games were on the line.

No way in hell cal platoons unless it's literally forced on him. This year isn't even close.

 

[Poetax]

We will play 8-9 guys a ton but I don't see the mass substition thing ever used again. the 5 starters ( the 3 guards Bam and Willis ) will play along with SKJ , Gabriel , Hawkins and Humphries .

We say that like it failed, 38-1, sometimes we forget, what if Alex had never gotten hurt, we might have ran the table.

 

[JPScott]

The one thing people always seem to forget about cal is he doesn't like long rosters. He has said this before. If he had his way he'd prefer 6 solid guys logging most minutes. It's the best way to be effective.

Cal may think that playing 6 guys is more effective but if the 2014-15 platoon experiment showed anything, it's that this idea is demonstrably false. (At least in cases where you have quality depth and the unique advantages that team had which were conducive to playing platoons.)

Again, the 2014-15 team when platooning played at a significantly higher level of effectiveness (especially defensively) than any other Cal team has ever performed before or since. In fact they were playing at a level rarely seen in colllege basketball history.

The one thing which was frustrating was that Cal actually had a guy on staff in Joel Justus who was supposed to be their analytics guy that year. Between the statistics, analytics and things like heart-rate data etc. one would think they would have done a better job sticking with and improving on what was clearly working, yet it didn't happen and they went the opposite direction.

Instead Caliparii went more and more to pulling individuals at random, mixing and matching his lineup continually and shortening his bench as the season wore on, and it clearly negatively impacted the team's effectiveness for anyone paying attention.

 

[UK’98UK’00]

I'm 6'7" 240 pounds of pure ripped muscle and would have gone pro but, you know, my knee.

Dang.

 

[Joneslab]

Depth is inconsequential in college basketball. Teams win every year playing six or seven.

In the title game last year Carolina had six guys who did anything. Villanova had five.

I don't think platooning was the answer for that team. Didn't hurt, didn't help, it was just necessary because of all the talent it had.

There were two issues IMO. One, they just ran into a fantastic team in Wisconin (that got eight points off its bench). And two, they just needed more Tyler Ulis.