2 sides

[Ewooc]

It seems to me there are becoming 2 sides to this mess we call Nebraska football. 1 side is claiming this is all MR, past coaches fault, and players. They claim we don't have the talent. They claim we don't have kids who want to play. They claim S&C has been horrible. They claim the upper class men don't care. Wait till we get all of Frost guys in here.

Then there is the other side, the side who claims this is all on Frost and the assistants. That what Frost and staff did at UCF was mute because it was done in the AAC. They claim other coaches have been able to turn worse programs around in 2 years. They claim the coaches have been getting out coached. They claim Frost scheme will not work in the BIG. They want assistants fired.

My thought is the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. Yes it is true other coaches have been able to gain ground year 2 with worse talent and who were in worse spots. However none were in this exact situation. As every previous coach is different, every player is different, every situation is different, every coach is different. My opinion, I have no idea the mentality of the upperclassmen. Some have been through one hell of a time the last 5 years especially the D side. I don't know how hard it is to flip a "just get by" mentality. So I do believe the players mental side is playing a factor. I also believe that Frost and Co are getting out coached especially Chin. What they are doing is not working and they are unable to make adjustments to fix things. We should be seeing more progress, not getting worse.

Short term I believe we have to stay the course. More than anything this program needs continuity. We have tried the hire and fire game and it hasn't worked. I think we need to give this whole staff through next year at min. If we are still seeing the same issue on D then yes a change/ changes in staff need to be made. MN is a great example of how fast things can turn when you get a good coordinator. I have no idea what Frost is thinking or the process he is using to flip this program around, but we will know much more once most of the starters are his guys once that happens 100% is on Frost.

 

[TheBeav815]

It's both. The talent level is bad, the attrition has been absolutely brutal, and the culture was so weak than when the new staff came in and tried to do their first workout dudes ended up with rabdo they had to scale it back because they were gonna hospitalize kids.

And that matters less physically than it does mentally. The players were basically allowed to dictate how hard they wanted to work, and that was what they did. They got so soft and out of shape that they couldn't make it through their first real workout after weeks of rest.

That's a mentality. Just the same way that I'm not a salesman. You can teach me to sell all you want, end of the day I don't like selling, I don't want to sell, and I don't care if people don't wanna buy my product. That's why I work in customer service, not sales. Hiring me as a salesman is a recipe to fail.

We got kids who do football like I do sales. They wanna be there for the minimum of what's required but they have no internal motivation for it. And you CAN run off guys like that or bench them, but if the guys who back them up can't play any better than they can it's not making you any more likely to win games.

It takes some Ws to keep people believing in what you're doing.

However, there are coaching and roster management mistakes that are obvious as well. They let their fear of further injuries lead to a soft team against Minnesota and it showed. Then they banged run game for a couple weeks, came back and they can't rush a QB or cover a WR. Look like they never did it in their life.

That's on coaches, you can't trot out a bunch of 325 lb block eaters or our useless OLBs in passing situations and then wonder why they don't get pressure. We have blitzers who NEVER get home, that's practice, that's coaching. We got DL who don't get off until well after the snap, that's a habit.

 

[uberism1111]

UCLA has had like 55 people leave their program and it left them depleted. Nebraska has had a large number of people leave the program too.

When the staff arrived a lot of linebackers left for various reasons - no talent, lazy work ethic, etc. That left the unit in a world of hurt and they are trying to correct it with guys with proper skills and body types that can be developed. In this defense you need the right linebackers to make it work.

When you don't have a pass rush it makes the entire D look worse than it actually is. Both of our starting corners will be in the NFL. But when they have to cover for so long like they did against Indiana, they will give up yards and some TDs.

When you don't have a deep threat on O, how can you stretch the field? You can't. When you don't have offensive lineman that, outside of Jurgens, that can't pull to run the complete offense, you will struggle at times.

Nebraska fans for the last 20ish years are always in the mindset of fire, fire, fire, fire and fire. It all started with the firing of Solich and people continue to think that firing everyone is the answer to the problem. It isn't. It never was before and it isn't in the future. The only head coaching hire that should have been fired the second it was announced was Mike Riley. He literally broke this program and it's going to be a hell of a ride out of it.

Frost knows what he is doing. People throw out the "it was the ACC, hot garbage" but they also fail to comprehend that no other college football coach in the history of college football took a program that didn't win a game when taking over a program to undefeated in 2 years. Only a smart and legit head coach can accomplish that.

The Big Ten is not an easy conference to rebuild in since the teams at the top are national title level programs. IT's a brutal road. Purdue is finding that out under Brohm. MN had been trying to rebuild for decades. Frost is taking over a broken program and trying to rebuilt it from the soil and up. It's going to be a stressful ride back to the top but once we get there it will be a lot of fun.

 

[maplesyrup95]

No matter which side you fall on as a fan, the true underlying problem boils down to a lack of leadership, specifically a lack of upperclassmen leaders. Think back to when we went 4-2 last year--spearheaded by seniors Jerald Foster, Tanner Farmer, Stanley Morgan, Luke Gifford, Aaron Williams and Mick Stoltenberg. They were all 21-22-23 years old. Aside from a select few that I can count on one hand, It is painfully clear that we do not have much of that this season.

Organizations, and especially sports teams, do not do well when high achievers clash with mediocre achievers. What's going on can traced back to the example of a group project in high school, where one or two people who do all the work get pissed at the other group members who aren't pulling their weight and doing their part in the project. That's precisely why we're seeing quotes about buy-in and all sorts of words being thrown around from players like Wan'Dale, Cam Taylor, Darrion Daniels and Barry. When Darrion Daniels transferred in and was voted a team captain after only having been at Nebraska for ONE month, that raised my eyebrows.

We will be lucky to get to 6 wins because there is visually a mix of players who want to succeed and others who are coasting it out. Let's hope Frost is waiting to use the 4-game rule for some of the underclassmen to try and move this program forward.

 

[FrostFoEver]

Frost will go down as the best Nebraska coach, but you can't always blame players. At what point does motivation because an issue when your coach says you suck.

 

[huskerbaseball13]

It’s definitely a mixed bag. The talent is not where it needs to be.....and if we are being honest, this staffs recruiting YTD is probably not where it needs to be either.

Mediocre talent and a staff that has done a pretty mediocre job leads to a 8-12 record. Many, including myself thought Frost would come in and this program would get back to doing the little things correct. First year or first few games in I can buy it being a player issue. We are 20 games in now and our games, even wins look like a **** show. Coaching is not where it needs to be and I believe it’s a direct result of Frost surrounding himself with a bunch of guys who have minimal or no power 5 experience.

 

[c3o]

No matter which side you fall on as a fan, the true underlying problem boils down to a lack of leadership, specifically a lack of upperclassmen leaders. Think back to when we went 4-2 last year--spearheaded by seniors Jerald Foster, Tanner Farmer, Stanley Morgan, Luke Gifford, Aaron Williams and Mick Stoltenberg. They were all 21-22-23 years old. Aside from a select few that I can count on one hand, It is painfully clear that we do not have much of that this season.

Organizations, and especially sports teams, do not do well when high achievers clash with mediocre achievers. What's going on can traced back to the example of a group project in high school, where one or two people who do all the work and get pissed at the other group members who aren't pulling their weight and doing their part in the project. That's precisely why we're seeing quotes about buy-in and all sorts of words being thrown around from players like Wan'Dale, Cam Taylor, Darrion Daniels and Barry. When Darrion Daniels transferred in and was voted a team captain after only having been at Nebraska for ONE month, that raised my eyebrows.

We will be lucky to get to 6 wins because there is visually a mix of players who want to succeed and others who are coasting it out. Let's hope Frost is waiting to use the 4-game rule for some of the underclassmen to try and move this program forward.

this is very valid as to what we're seeing. I blame our staff for what we've seen. this is their product. However, the talent disparity and lack of leadership is evident. I was really wrong about Mo Berry. I thought he'd be an all-big MLB. He plays hard. Maybe he's not a good leader, or he is and he's basically wrangling cats.

 

[TheBeav815]

Yeah you thought the kinds of f-ups that you just can't explain would go away. So far they haven't and they haven't hit on enough recruits to be able to make a guy like 19 who can't line up or block or get open half the time take a seat on the bench.

It was a basement flooded with **** and looks like we're still shoveling instead of putting up new drywall.

 

[TheNewNU_rivals50820]

There are so many problems with this team and this program right now. Its easy to point fingers but at the end of the day this accomplishes nothing. We dont have many guys on this team that love football. Last year we had Stan and Devine and Farmer. Luke Gifford and Mick Stoltenberg. Those guys loved football. I dont see that from this group. Football is fncking hard. If you dont love it youre gonna get passed by by someone that does. We dont have the talent to beat middle of the pack B1G teams on talent alone. It comes down to want to and this team doesnt have it right now. As far as Im concerned find the kids who want to play and play them and recruit like theres no tomorrow.

 

[BeautifulDayintheNeighborhood]

It seems to me there are becoming 2 sides to this mess we call Nebraska football. 1 side is claiming this is all MR, past coaches fault, and players. They claim we don't have the talent. They claim we don't have kids who want to play. They claim S&C has been horrible. They claim the upper class men don't care. Wait till we get all of Frost guys in here.

Then there is the other side, the side who claims this is all on Frost and the assistants. That what Frost and staff did at UCF was mute because it was done in the AAC. They claim other coaches have been able to turn worse programs around in 2 years. They claim the coaches have been getting out coached. They claim Frost scheme will not work in the BIG. They want assistants fired.

My thought is the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. Yes it is true other coaches have been able to gain ground year 2 with worse talent and who were in worse spots. However none were in this exact situation. As every previous coach is different, every player is different, every situation is different, every coach is different. My opinion, I have no idea the mentality of the upperclassmen. Some have been through one hell of a time the last 5 years especially the D side. I don't know how hard it is to flip a "just get by" mentality. So I do believe the players mental side is playing a factor. I also believe that Frost and Co are getting out coached especially Chin. What they are doing is not working and they are unable to make adjustments to fix things. We should be seeing more progress, not getting worse.

Short term I believe we have to stay the course. More than anything this program needs continuity. We have tried the hire and fire game and it hasn't worked. I think we need to give this whole staff through next year at min. If we are still seeing the same issue on D then yes a change/ changes in staff need to be made. MN is a great example of how fast things can turn when you get a good coordinator. I have no idea what Frost is thinking or the process he is using to flip this program around, but we will know much more once most of the starters are his guys once that happens 100% is on Frost.

At least we can all agree that this is not Bo’s fault

 

[maplesyrup95]

this is very valid as to what we're seeing. I blame our staff for what we've seen. this is their product. However, the talent disparity and lack of leadership is evident. I was really wrong about Mo Berry. I thought he'd be an all-big MLB. He plays hard. Maybe he's not a good leader, or he is and he's basically wrangling cats.

I definitely agree with this sentiment, too. Scott needs to do some adjusting himself. What's fascinating to me is Scott has been a high achiever pretty much his entire life. He has been around high achievers nearly all of his coaching career, and now for maybe the first time since he played at Stanford, he is dealing with mediocre thinking. He walked into a completely different animal at Nebraska than what he did in Eugene and Orlando. IMO I think next year we will see some strides, especially on the offensive and defensive lines.

 

[TheBeav815]

this is very valid as to what we're seeing. I blame our staff for what we've seen. this is their product. However, the talent disparity and lack of leadership is evident. I was really wrong about Mo Berry. I thought he'd be an all-big MLB. He plays hard. Maybe he's not a good leader, or he is and he's basically wrangling cats.

Can't lead people who don't take to being led

 

[jeans15]

The upperclassmen need to go.

 

[gw2kpro]

It's both. The talent level is bad, the attrition has been absolutely brutal, and the culture was so weak than when the new staff came in and tried to do their first workout dudes ended up with rabdo they had to scale it back because they were gonna hospitalize kids.

And that matters less physically than it does mentally. The players were basically allowed to dictate how hard they wanted to work, and that was what they did. They got so soft and out of shape that they couldn't make it through their first real workout after weeks of rest.

That's a mentality. Just the same way that I'm not a salesman. You can teach me to sell all you want, end of the day I don't like selling, I don't want to sell, and I don't care if people don't wanna buy my product. That's why I work in customer service, not sales. Hiring me as a salesman is a recipe to fail.

We got kids who do football like I do sales. They wanna be there for the minimum of what's required but they have no internal motivation for it. And you CAN run off guys like that or bench them, but if the guys who back them up can't play any better than they can it's not making you any more likely to win games.

It takes some Ws to keep people believing in what you're doing.

However, there are coaching and roster management mistakes that are obvious as well. They let their fear of further injuries lead to a soft team against Minnesota and it showed. Then they banged run game for a couple weeks, came back and they can't rush a QB or cover a WR. Look like they never did it in their life.

That's on coaches, you can't trot out a bunch of 325 lb block eaters or our useless OLBs in passing situations and then wonder why they don't get pressure. We have blitzers who NEVER get home, that's practice, that's coaching. We got DL who don't get off until well after the snap, that's a habit.

This.

Basically, an entire recruiting class is missing. Blame Riley, blame Frost, blame the fans, blame Moos.

That's the situation.

And a below poster touched on "loving football" vs. "one more thing I have to do today prior to graduating".

At some point, the coaching carousel some of our upperclassmen have been through has to be part of the issue. By the time you have had 4 or 5 position coaches / coordinators you might say eff it.

At any rate, the staff has to stabilize.

 

[maplesyrup95]

High achievers don't like mediocre people and mediocre people don't like high achievers.

 

[gw2kpro]

High achievers don't like mediocre people and mediocre people don't like high achievers.

I am impressed with this young man.

The QB battle next season can't get here quick enough. How long has it been since we have had a true competition?

Crouch/Newcombe?

 

[Ewooc]

I am impressed with this young man.

The QB battle next season can't get here quick enough. How long has it been since we have had a true competition?

Crouch/Newcombe?

Just my opinion buy McCaffrey and Vedral have looked better than Martinez. Smothers comes in and it could be a legit 4 way competition. I do think eventually McCaffrey will be moved to some sort of Duck R or Wr position. If Smother can pick things up quickly he may be the guy to beat come fall camp. Vedral I have a feeling will always just be a back up, kids got tons of heart just not the talent as some other. Martinez has looked like crap this year, is it the O line or the added weight or both. Either way if he continues to play like that the rest of the year and into fall camp his job is not safe.

 

[jeans15]

High achievers don't like mediocre people and mediocre people don't like high achievers.

Love it.

Came here to win. Not be adored.

 

[TheNewNU_rivals50820]

High achievers don't like mediocre people and mediocre people don't like high achievers.

He's special. He wants to be great and he has a ton of talent. We need a whole team like this.

 

[TheNewNU_rivals50820]

Just my opinion buy McCaffrey and Vedral have looked better than Martinez. Smothers comes in and it could be a legit 4 way competition. I do think eventually McCaffrey will be moved to some sort of Duck R or Wr position. If Smother can pick things up quickly he may be the guy to beat come fall camp. Vedral I have a felling will always just be a back up, kids got tons of heart just not the talent as some other. Martinez has looked like crap this year, is it the O line or the added weight or both. Either way if he continues to play like that the rest of the year and into fall camp his job is not safe.

I'd like to see what Adrian got on his ACT or how he'd do on a wonderlic. I think its upstairs with him.

 

[HCHTown]

I think the B1G is just a different animal this era. I was always a lineman’s conference but now it has the speed and talent to go with it top to bottom. Gone are the days when the PAC 10 winner would run circles around them in the Rose Bowl.

Everyone has money. Everyone is hiring great coaches. Some team have population proximity and some don’t. Nebraska has fan support but so do the other top teams. This is going to be a grind. I actually think TO’s offense would be the change up to differentiate but probably not going to happen. So grind, grind, grind, and when we do have a year where we win the conference we will be good enough to play for it all.

 

[The_Glove_Man_rivals300278]

Frost will go down as the best Nebraska coach....

Nope.

 

[uberism1111]

Nope.

Yes he will. Frost has a good 25 to 30 years of coaching time at Nebraska. Only dumbos and defeatist assume things will not get better. Frost is a brilliant mind and one of the biggest competitors in the coaching profession. Once this phase of initial rebuild is over a lot of these people who are having a meltdown daily will not be found or they will pretend they never had these metldowns.

When major success comes I won't even care if those having metldowns don't post or don't admit to having had meltdowns early on in the rebuild since there will be exciting things to chat about.

 

[oldjar07]

No matter which side you fall on as a fan, the true underlying problem boils down to a lack of leadership, specifically a lack of upperclassmen leaders. Think back to when we went 4-2 last year--spearheaded by seniors Jerald Foster, Tanner Farmer, Stanley Morgan, Luke Gifford, Aaron Williams and Mick Stoltenberg. They were all 21-22-23 years old. Aside from a select few that I can count on one hand, It is painfully clear that we do not have much of that this season.

Organizations, and especially sports teams, do not do well when high achievers clash with mediocre achievers. What's going on can traced back to the example of a group project in high school, where one or two people who do all the work get pissed at the other group members who aren't pulling their weight and doing their part in the project. That's precisely why we're seeing quotes about buy-in and all sorts of words being thrown around from players like Wan'Dale, Cam Taylor, Darrion Daniels and Barry. When Darrion Daniels transferred in and was voted a team captain after only having been at Nebraska for ONE month, that raised my eyebrows.

We will be lucky to get to 6 wins because there is visually a mix of players who want to succeed and others who are coasting it out. Let's hope Frost is waiting to use the 4-game rule for some of the underclassmen to try and move this program forward.

Leadership starts with the coaches. Seems the leadership from the coaching staff hasn't been that great the last 2 years.

 

[Mack In Motion]

Love it.

Came here to win. Not be adored.

Yep. Definitely a bright spot this season.

To state the obvious:. He's gonna be a special player here.

 

[bshirt73]

Yeah you thought the kinds of f-ups that you just can't explain would go away. So far they haven't and they haven't hit on enough recruits to be able to make a guy like 19 who can't line up or block or get open half the time take a seat on the bench.

It was a basement flooded with **** and looks like we're still shoveling instead of putting up new drywall.

Lol!! Well stated sir!

 

[6thdegree]

Frost will go down as the best Nebraska coach, but you can't always blame players. At what point does motivation because an issue when your coach says you suck.

I don't understand why it is all on the players. Frost should look at his defensive coaches, particularly the DC and DB coaches. The receiver from Indiana caught 14 passes Saturday--the coaches should have at least told his DB's to get in the receiver's way once in a while. Did Frost not review this film after the game? Our LB's and even DB's seem to be out of position all the time.

 

[oldjar07]

It seems to me there are becoming 2 sides to this mess we call Nebraska football. 1 side is claiming this is all MR, past coaches fault, and players. They claim we don't have the talent. They claim we don't have kids who want to play. They claim S&C has been horrible. They claim the upper class men don't care. Wait till we get all of Frost guys in here.

Then there is the other side, the side who claims this is all on Frost and the assistants. That what Frost and staff did at UCF was mute because it was done in the AAC. They claim other coaches have been able to turn worse programs around in 2 years. They claim the coaches have been getting out coached. They claim Frost scheme will not work in the BIG. They want assistants fired.

My thought is the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. Yes it is true other coaches have been able to gain ground year 2 with worse talent and who were in worse spots. However none were in this exact situation. As every previous coach is different, every player is different, every situation is different, every coach is different. My opinion, I have no idea the mentality of the upperclassmen. Some have been through one hell of a time the last 5 years especially the D side. I don't know how hard it is to flip a "just get by" mentality. So I do believe the players mental side is playing a factor. I also believe that Frost and Co are getting out coached especially Chin. What they are doing is not working and they are unable to make adjustments to fix things. We should be seeing more progress, not getting worse.

Short term I believe we have to stay the course. More than anything this program needs continuity. We have tried the hire and fire game and it hasn't worked. I think we need to give this whole staff through next year at min. If we are still seeing the same issue on D then yes a change/ changes in staff need to be made. MN is a great example of how fast things can turn when you get a good coordinator. I have no idea what Frost is thinking or the process he is using to flip this program around, but we will know much more once most of the starters are his guys once that happens 100% is on Frost.

If we keep this whole staff back next year, the only thing that's going to happen is we're going to be looking at another losing season with a much tougher schedule. If we have a losing season next year, Frost himself is going to be on the hot seat. I don't think he can afford to wait, the time to start making changes is now.

 

[Headcard]

Yes he will. Frost has a good 25 to 30 years of coaching time at Nebraska. Only dumbos and defeatist assume things will not get better. Frost is a brilliant mind and one of the biggest competitors in the coaching profession. Once this phase of initial rebuild is over a lot of these people who are having a meltdown daily will not be found or they will pretend they never had these metldowns.

When major success comes I won't even care if those having metldowns don't post or don't admit to having had meltdowns early on in the rebuild since there will be exciting things to chat about.

You do realize he will have to be a Top 5-10 coach of all-time to go down as the greatest Nebraska coach right?

 

[uberism1111]

You do realize he will have to be a Top 5-10 coach of all-time to go down as the greatest Nebraska coach right?

Yes, and it will be done. Offensive STUDS are going to eventually flock here once the offense is putting up 600+ yards weekly and 35+ points weekly. How long it takes to fix the defense is the unknown.

 

[Ewooc]

If we keep this whole staff back next year, the only thing that's going to happen is we're going to be looking at another losing season with a much tougher schedule. If we have a losing season next year, Frost himself is going to be on the hot seat. I don't think he can afford to wait, the time to start making changes is now.

I agree another losing season next year and Frost is going to be on thin ice. I said from the beginning I think most will give him at minimum 4 years. Losing season last year, losing season this year? next year better be 6 or 7 wins min. If he doesn't have this team winning at least 8 or 9 by year 4 he could be trouble. Look what *** clown fleck is doing with **** program MN. They have been garbage, with garbage recruits for decades. He flipped them in 3 years. There is no reason or excuse why Frost shouldn't be able to hit 8 next year.

 

[maplesyrup95]

Leadership starts with the coaches. Seems the leadership from the coaching staff hasn't been that great the last 2 years.

After an 0-6 start last season, when many teams would have absolutely collapsed, they won 4 of the last 6 games, nearly knocking off Ohio State and Iowa. Even giving yourself a chance against programs like that in the state the program was in doesn't happen without leadership among your older players. Obviously going 4-8 is not great but after starting 0-6 and somehow pulling 4-2 out of that mess? Foster, Stoltenberg, Farmer were all 22 and 23 years old. Frost did not even recruit them and still got production out of those seniors. The reason why he is putting a lot of the pressure on the players right now for losing is because his formula worked the last half of last season and it has worked in other places around the country.

I do agree that there's no question that the coaches need to do more adjusting to their big boy jobs. Frost said as much today that everyone needs to get better in his organization. This is the Big Ten. And many fans, including myself, thought this league was going to be easier than what it currently is now. They are average coaches right now. That doesn't mean they can't improve.

Just for numbers-sake, here is what we have:

24 Seniors
24 Juniors
28 Sophomores
78 Freshmen (32 Redshirts)

 

[oldjar07]

Last year we went from a very poor team to a very average team. Of the 4 wins, most of them were against mediocre or poor teams. Ohio State is a way better team this year than when we played them last year. Iowa beat us worse than the score indicated. They were running all over our defense.

 

[bigboxes]

It's both. But this program has been in a mess for a while, now. Frost really needs to win with what he has. He can do better.

 

[The_Guy_Behind_The_Guy_Behind_The_Guy]

If we keep this whole staff back next year, the only thing that's going to happen is we're going to be looking at another losing season with a much tougher schedule. If we have a losing season next year, Frost himself is going to be on the hot seat. I don't think he can afford to wait, the time to start making changes is now.

So what do you suggest? Fire coaches and have new position coaches each year to further confuse the players?

I disagree and think some stability is needed. Frost got a seven year deal. If we are not showing signs of improvement then yes, changes need to be made.

 

[oldjar07]

So what do you suggest? Fire coaches and have new position coaches each year to further confuse the players?

I disagree and think some stability is needed. Frost got a seven year deal. If we are not showing signs of improvement then yes, changes need to be made.

No the point is to hire good coordinators to begin with so you don't have to fire them. It's obvious something is not working and nothing is going to get better unless changes are made. Frost isn't getting 7 years if things don't start improving.