Not really sure what LWC has to do with LWW?
That’s like saying Maine South is going to have problems because Maine East wasn’t very good.
1st round 5-4 upset
- Thread starter Little Kin
- Start date
That’s like saying Maine South is going to have problems because Maine East wasn’t very good.
Any person that mentions Marion in comparison to Rochester is not familiar with Illinois football. If it were that easy, there would be a lot more parity when reviewing previous state championships.
The fact is Rochester had faced a couple of Cahokia type teams in the past. Phillips and Althoff are examples. Thus far, Cahokia staff hasn’t faced anything like Rochester. If they truly understand that what you see is really not what you see when looking at film, they may have a chance.
The fact is Rochester had faced a couple of Cahokia type teams in the past. Phillips and Althoff are examples. Thus far, Cahokia staff hasn’t faced anything like Rochester. If they truly understand that what you see is really not what you see when looking at film, they may have a chance.
actually they have, they are called Johnson Centeal in Paintsville Kentucky and it was an overtime game. There are good teams outside Illinois. Just ask ESTL
Not too long ago, like fellow SWSC member LWW, LWC also met a Mid-Suburban East team in Round 1 (or in an early non-con) a few times in recent years. During this time on the whole, I thought the similarities between West and Central were far greater than those between Maine South and East to make a recent comparison between the SWSC reps and those toward the top of the MSE.
Simply put Rochester has won 8 State championships in 4a (one in 5A) over the last 10 years. Whatever team you are talking about has n't done that I am sure. No need for me to try and convince you of anything. Just pointing out a team that has won that many championships in a row isn't Marion or the team from Kentucky.
The team from Kentucky played in the 4A state title game in 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2019. They won 2 of those games. That's not just some team from Kentucky that's a damn good football team that Cahokia scheduled to get them ready for this part of the season. Whether it works or not is yet to be seen but playing a team that good and going to OT with them is usually a good learning experience. In Kentucky they only 6 classes so playing 4A in Kentucky you play against some decent sized schools. You make 5 straight title games and have a good program.
Now, now, Uncle Riko, only Illinois and Rochester can have a football dynasty. Everyone else has to stand back and take their whooping. FWIW the Kentucky team enrollment is just under 1,100 students.
Rochester is
rochester is 8 and 1 in championships. No one said the Kentucky team was bad,
You didn't say they were bad but your post kind of dismissed them because they aren't Rochester. No one is except for Rochester. Rochester's historical success only began 11 years ago and they built it fast and have been GREAT. Pretty much what's going on with the school from Kentucky playing in 5 straight title games. They haven't had as much success in that game that Rochester has had but you don't go to 5 straight title games if you have a poor program. The whole point is Cahokia has played some good quality opponents and I doubt they will be intimidated because they are playing Rochester. They for sure won't be playing a team that just has more athletes than them. They have a good offensive scheme from watching the few games I have watched. It's not like it was when Golliday was there and it was sweep right, sweep left and every once in a while they try to hit a long pass against the team. Golliday's teams beat other teams because they just simply had more athletes and couldn't be contained for the entire game. Will Cahokia do enough to win? I don't know. I do know that if I was Rochester and saw the draw that Breese Central got as the 2 seed and looked at my draw as the 1 seed I would be wondering what the hell happened? Breese isn't a very strong 2 seed. They play in a tiny conference that is not very good (watch the Columbia vs SHG score). Cahokia isn't a typical 16 seed but maybe Rochester will look past them like a few folks on here seem to be doing.
All I stated was facts. Rochester is Rochester and Johnson Central is Johnson Central. My advice was don't compare the two. Whether you think one is better than the other is an opinion you are entitled to. As excited as some are about the conference success, which I understand you have to start somewhere, playing a team in a win or go home scenario is very different. No one look past anyone in the playoffs.
As far as Goliday, no matter you opinion, the facts are he went to the quarters and the semis with a late fumble preventing a state championship appearance. One of the first mistakes is discrediting someone because you may have a different philosophy.
My comment on Rochester was based the amount of post season success versus very different types of teams. This is a result of paying attention to detail and not underestimating their opponent. If Cahokia is to have some success, trying to compare two totally different style teams as an indicator of potential success is not being respectful to post season play. Good and I can't wait to see the results.
It was the act
. Fun times back then when the roster wasn’t decimated by injuries…
Today’s results indicate Rochester would have decimated hose teams if you stick with those comparisons.
Rochester- 48
Cahokia- 0
You mean , like Rochester has done playing in and winning 8 states, 1 semi, and 2 quarters over the past 11 seasons. Cool.
After all that talk about Cahokia this is what you come up with? Lol. If it were that easy, anyone can do it.
Take it easy. Maybe Cahokia had to power the bus like the Flintstones
Wow you are really a huge douche. You posted the score 4 times trying to rub it in on a guy who's not from Cahokia but just roots for teams in my area. You must run out with the Rochester players in a rocket costume as the mascot. I never said Cahokia would win in fact I questioned whether the addition of a really good football team from Kentucky, which was scheduled to help at this time of year would help (That's not just some team from Kentucky that's a damn good football team that Cahokia scheduled to get them ready for this part of the season. Whether it works or not is yet to be seen). I was bummed as a fan of 618 teams to see Cahokia matched up with Rochester in the first round. I did think they would play a closer game but never thought that they would win. I thought Cahokia would get a Breese Central or Freeburg draw who are also 618 teams but are going to be out quickly. Both these two teams were highly ranked but would have been blown out by Cahokia. I thought this matchup would be in about the 3rd week of the playoffs which could have been a home game for Cahokia and with a few wins of momentum and a possible home game could have helped. I still don't think they had enough to win but who knows. It was just a few years back that a 618 team knocked Rochester out of the playoffs (Althoff).
Also to those who said how terrible Marion was and the win by Cahokia over them wasn't worth a ****, well Marion beat normal 5A powerhouse Metamore 41-8. Marion isn't as bad of a football team as many on here have claimed they are.
You obviously new to this level of football. Cahokia simply not ready.
Nope not new to this level or any level. I have been to a ton of ESL playoff games in my life. Back to when they played at the old field where the crowd banged on the stands and made the place very loud. I followed Althoff a few different times. Most recently the year they went to state and on the way beat Rochester only losing 1 game which was the title game to Phillips. I myself played in the state title game when I was in high school. I have also seen Cahokia fumble a win away with 2 minutes left in I think 2005 to lose the state semi final game after Rock Island Alleman scored after the fumble. What does "Cahokia simply not ready mean?" Like they need more seasons before they will break through even though they made the semi's twice since 2005? My dad and I go to local playoff games every year. We find a team that we think has a shot and go to their games. If they lose but another local team is still in the playoffs we go to watch their playoff games. Sorry that your "take" was way off but I understand that you were just trying to make me look stupid. Just no truth to it and just a really poor assumption.
I posted it on the separate individuals who predicted a close game. There were a couple of you who bragged about the Kentucky team and one other team to "get ready". There is a very smart poster from East St. Louis who called it out and recognized those predicting a Cahokia close game were ridiculous because of their poor schedule and overall scheme. However, you ignored the type of offenses those teams utilize. You also ignored the overall quality of opponents Cahokia played this season.
Marion and Metamora play very similar boring offenses. Very slow to the line. And very slow in pace overall. This was easily seen in the post of the Marion vs Cahokia game. The Cahokia d-line had their hands on their hips in the 1st quarter against a slow team. Marion is THAT bad. The best team they played all year was Cahokia (ranked 94th in the state). Metamora was 195th. Marion plays Mascoutah next week and that will be the end of Marion's season.
This game was a matchup nightmare for Cahokia. As they simply do not play offenses which move as fast as Rochester and this was proven in the 3 neutral zone penalties during a single drive by the same player who was getting tired. Very frankly, 4A is matter of watching Rochester and SHG not losing focus so they can face each other again in the semis for a chance to lose to JCA in the Finals. In fact, the only team which will beat JCA is a perfect game from St. Francis or an outbreak of COVID in the Hilltoppers locker room
As for the Althoff comment, that was a fantastic 2015 team, which subsequently was mercy ruled in the Finals by Phillips, a team Rochester pummelled the year before. And we all know what happened in the Rochester/Althoff II game in 2016 as Althoff was exposed for their inability to block without holding the defensive ends and their inability to cover receivers past 5 yards. I hate to say it, but the Rochester vs Paris matchup is horrible as Paris basically "plays down" during the season while Rochester "plays up". Rochester has played a regular season scheduled against teams which are (by MaxPreps rankings) twice as good as the schedule Paris has played.
So let's put the insults away. I look at the numbers, styles of play, and SOS rather than my heart.
DIsagree with the Mascoutah vs Marion take (doesn't make me right just my opinion). They have played 4 common opponents. They both routed the same 3 teams. The only one that was different was Marion beat Highland by 20 points where as Highland beat Mascoutah for their only loss. I don't think you can just easily say that Mascoutah wins. They are both pretty evenly matched by looking at opponents played and results except the Highland outlier. I expect it to be a good game and a very close game but I think Marion wins. I don't really look at rankings in high school aren't very good/reliable. Marion was ranked all year long in 5A. Mascoutah couldn't have beaten a highly ranked team given that the two teams have 4 common opponents and other teams Mascoutah played are a 3-6 Waterloo team who is terrible, a 5-4 small 4A Columbia team who got killed in their first round game against SHG and also got killed vs Waterloo. Last team was Bethalto Civic Memorial who was a 4A team and at 6-3 was BAD. Mascoutah beat them 70-28 and both Triad and Highland blew Civic out as well. I watched them barely get by Waterloo in a game Waterloo should have won. So while Marion might not have played a very good schedule, Mascoutah didn't play a very good one either.
Mascoutah loss their QB so it’s a different ball game. Marion is only southseven good until they prove otherwise.
First, Chase Hanson (Mascoutah's QB played against Highland). He got hurt in the 4th quarter of the game but still played and finished the game. To your point though Mascoutah isn't the same team without him and he is out for the season now because he got hurt late in that game and the MRI the following Monday showed he tore his ACL.
Hanson was lost for the season when he tore his right anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) and meniscus in Week 8 against Highland.
Only Hanson didn’t know it at the time.
He’s pretty sure the injury occurred early in the fourth quarter against the Bulldogs, but when Mascoutah’s trainer asked him what was wrong he brushed her off.
“I just need to walk it off,” Hanson told her.
That night, after Highland escaped with a 29-27 win to end Mascoutah’s perfect season, the trainer did a more thorough examination and found Hanson may have sprained his ACL. There was some optimism he had escaped the worst.
The following Monday, an MRI revealed the extent of his injury.
I'm not even sure you can say Mascoutah, who finished in a 3 way tie for their conference, would be the best team in the conference without Hanson. They were just Mississippi Valley good with a healthy Hanson. They lost 1 game in conference just like Marion. The MVC isn't exactly the greatest conference. The team that beat Mascoutah beat their opponent (5-4 Dunlap) by a TD. Dunlap got destroyed by Metamora. The same Metamora team that I was told is terrible when I pointed out that Marion beat them by 33. When I made my original statement I thought Hanson was still playing. I knew he got hurt but thought it wasn't very serious. Now that he's out Marion will win this game with relative ease. Why all the hate for Cahokia and Marion on here? Especially Cahokia who literally doesn't have a lot of fans. Their home games have very small crowds. I remember there was a decent crown at the semifinals in 2005 but a normal game there is less than 100 people there. They have more haters than fans!!!
Can’t mix facts with hate my man. What has Marion done in the playoffs the last 5 years? Mascoutah made it to the semis in 2019 when then 8-1 Marion lost to Triad in the first round. Has Marion ever made it to the qtr or semis?
No one hates those teams but you are not respecting the playoffs. You keep bringing up teams who haven’t proved anything yet. At least Cahokia made it to the Qtrs a couple of years back. Marion, not so much.
OK so lets try and un-tie all in your post. I am a 618 fan so I like both of these schools. Marion is going to win though (my opinion). If Mascoutah wins then I will be pulling for them the following week but I don't see Mascoutah winning when they are missing their best player. You have apparently developed some kind of issue with me in the 2 weeks I started posting on here. No clue why but it is what it is. When it comes playoff time I usually pay attention to Cahokia (if they are in it) and ESL. I grew up in Cahokia which is very close to ESL so I have been to a ton of games of each school. I used to love as a kid going to Parson's field and hearing how loud the stands would get with people stomping on them and just getting crazy loud. I have always been a fan of those two schools but when it comes to playoffs I root for all 618 schools to do well to represent the area. My towns high school team SUCKS. The coach should have been fired years ago but all the admin cares about is the team stays out of trouble and doesn't embarrasses the school. Kind of how the admin at Illinois feels about that program which is why they have sucked for decades.
You never addressed in your post Mascoutah missing their best player and QB in Hanson (out for season with ACL tear). I bring that up again because of your post below:
Mascoutah loss their QB so it’s a different ball game. Marion is only southseven good until they prove otherwise.
They actually didn't lose their QB in that game. He played the entire game and they thought originally it was just an ACL sprain. It wasn't until the 4th quarter that he took the hit that would end his season that next Monday I brought up your post again because you said it was a different ballgame when Mascoutah lost him (even though he played the entire game).
Marion under Kerry Martin (who's dad Al Martin is a legend and sure hall of famer) 17 times in a row all in 5A. Has Marion ever made the quarters or semi's? Yes to both. They made the semi's (2007) and the quarter finals (2006). If you are giving Cahokia credit for making the semi's (they made semi's not qrts) in 2008 (also made them in 2005) then surely you can give Marion credit for back to back seasons in the quarters one year and the semi's the next year (2006 and 2007). They were undefeated in their spring season 6-0. In that same time period (19 years) Mascoutah has 7 playoff appearances. I would say Marion has been the better team both record wise and playoff success wise since Martin got the job at Marion.
If you want to look at a history of a school you should look at the coach and see what he's done in his time at the school. You don't just pick a random number of years that fits your narrative. In the 19 years that Martin has been the coach he has a 128-69 record (65% winning percentage. He has made the playoffs 17 straight times in his 19 years as the head coach (only seasons he missed were his first 2). Lee has been the head coach at Mascoutah for 5 years and is 28-23 with 3 playoff appearances. All that history accounts for zero when the two teams meet on Saturday.
That a lot of typing. I have nothing against you what so ever. I only stated facts. I recall saying the last 5 years or so simply because that is a representation of now. Seniors have been on the team for the last four years.
You said I didn’t mention their QB was out yet, you put the post where I literally said they have a new QB. I’m confused on your point.
I have watched Marion simply because I pay attention to Cahokia over the last decade or so. I have seen more of Marion than I have of Mascoutah. I thought for sure that JC was going to hand it to Mascoutah big boy style in 19. That was impressive for Mascoutah regardless of where that JC team stood in the history books. They were in the qtr. When Marion has a win like that in the playoffs, I will change my view.
Your post about Mascoutah losing their QB was to imply if they had him against Highland the whole game (which they did) it would have been a different story. He played that whole game so you can't say that him missing that game made a difference since he didn't.
You just changed the goalposts against Marion. You first said they haven't made the quarters or the semi's. I showed you that in 2 different seasons they made both. In back to back years they went to the quarters then the next year they went to the semi's. No they didn't beat Joliet Catholic but they made the 5A state semifinals. You don't make it that far without beating good teams. They lost to Metamora that year who won the state title. The year before when they made the quarters they beat Triad in the 2nd round and again lost to Metamora. Marion doesn't have history like a JCA, ESL or even a team near them in DuQuion. They have had success though both in the regular season and in the playoffs. I am not even close to a Marion fan and in fact have only been to one of their games in my life in a playoff game against I believe Highland years ago. Whichever team wins this week I will be pulling for that team the quarterfinal weekend. I just think with Mascoutah's QB being out Marion is going to have too much for them to handle.
I hate the years that no 618 school makes the title game and hate it even more when all the teams are out by semi final weekend. This year I know I will be at least watching ESL on Thanksgiving weekend and hopefully a few more teams. I think Breese Mater Dei has a shot in 2A. I hope they play Nashville at some point so it will make sure a 618 team will make the next weekend. Mt. Carmel 618 has a shot in 3A. No 618 schools in 4A have a shot. 5A I don't think any team really has a shot but one of Marion or Mascoutah will make the quarters at least. ESL is 6A title bound. 7A and 8A neither have local teams that can make it already.
I have no clue about Mascoutah and Highland. I didn’t see the game. My comment was about the playoffs. Not sure how that got mixed up. My only conversation is about playoff football. Regular season either prepare you for it or set you up for failure. The particulars of any one regular season game isn’t relavent in the playoffs. It’s win or go home. Can you handle a teams best effort and never quit attitude. Some are able to do it while others are not. When it’s time to dig deep, can you.
Mascoutah showed that in 19. Marion hasn’t. Those are the facts we have to go on right now. We will see the results this weekend.
Also for the record you should reread my post. I specifically said the last five years! 2016 to now.
The comment about Mascoutah's QB was after I said that Marion beat Highland by 20 but Mascoutah got beat by them. Your next post said:
Mascoutah loss their QB so it’s a different ball game. Marion is only southseven good until they prove otherwise.
Sorry but I read that as yea Marion beat Highland and Mascoutah would have too but they lost their QB. If you are claiming it's a different game in the playoffs for Mascoutah now that their QB is out I agree. They will have a much tougher time even staying in the game with Marion without their best player. Their starting linebacker is now starting at QB and also not the starting LB anymore. That hurts them at two important positions.
You post about success in the playoffs first asked what has Marion done in the playoffs in the last 5 years. Has Marion ever made it to the qtr or semis?
To me ever means literally what it says. Have they ever made it? Yes two different seasons.
Can’t mix facts with hate my man. What has Marion done in the playoffs the last 5 years? Mascoutah made it to the semis in 2019 when then 8-1 Marion lost to Triad in the first round. Has Marion ever made it to the qtr or semis
I guess at this point there is no more reasons to further discuss this topic. You will make a statement and call it facts. I will refute it and show how it wasn't exactly correct and far from facts then you will claim that's not what your post meant.
I'm pretty sure we both wish the best for the area schools. I know you think I am some sort of football novice but I know more about football than I do pretty much anything else. Maybe baseball history is number 1a and football is 1b but I have been around the game since playing tykes when I was 5 through playing in high school to then becoming a fanatic about high school, college (my favorite level) and the NFL.
After hearing Mascoutah lost their starting QB, my tone changes as to their potential to win this game this Saturday.