19 Year Baseball Comparison

[RutherfordBHayes]

Since it's July, baseball just ended, and my friends up North are morons; I decided to compare baseball programs. I'll be nice since they didn't discover baseball until the new millennium, so I'll just look at baseball since 2000. I believe that is when they hired Bianco.

Head to head: 40-39 MSU
Governor's Cups: 11-8 UM
40 win seasons: 7 each
50 win seasons: MSU with 1
SEC Tournament Champions: 3-3
SEC Champions: 1-0
NCAA Regional Appearances: 15-14 UM
NCAA Regional Hosts: 8-3 UM!
NCAA Super Regional Appearances: 8-5 MSU
NCAA Super Regional Hosts: 4-2 UM
CWS Appearances: 3-1 MSU
CWS Finals: 1-0

 

[8dog]

We have 8 super regional appearances

 

[RutherfordBHayes]

We have 8 super regional appearances

Correction made. I counted fast; I’m sure there are more errors.

 

[Dr. Funke.sixpack]

Yep. They’ve hosted a lot more, but 1 CWS to show for it.

 

[bruiser.sixpack]

That 40-39 head to head is unacceptable. Ridiculously unacceptable. Means they were ahead over the previous 18 seasons! Boo That!

 

[dickiedawg]

For the most part they’ve been the better regular season team, but we own June.

 

[patdog]

MUCH closer than it should be. A few stats stand out.

NCAA Regional Hosts: 8-3 UM!
NCAA Super Regional Appearances: 8-5 MSU
NCAA Super Regional Hosts: 4-2 UM
CWS Appearances: 3-1 MSU

They have absolutely sucked in the postseason, while we have thrived there.

 

[tatedog]

For the most part they’ve been the better regular season team, but we own June.

They've made the most out of some good schedules, but they've wasted even more good teams. So much talent wasted there in the mid to late 00's while Polk was planning his retirement. It's a shame. During one of the broadcasts of their regional this year one of the TV guys stated that the Ole Miss team was dedicating this postseason to the Ole Miss baseball fans who have endured so much disappointment over the years while supporting the team. I got a good laugh out of that while the OVC champs were dogpiling OU Stadium.

 

[Lurker.sixpack]

They only get up to play us.

 

[Forrest4Moore]

SEC Tournament Champions: 3-3

They only have 2 tournament titles since 2000. So we own that as well.

 

[dickiedawg]

Ole Miss also has 4 West titles in that time to our 2.

 

[thekimmer]

Interesting comparison. My takeaways...

Since it's July, baseball just ended, and my friends up North are morons; I decided to compare baseball programs. I'll be nice since they didn't discover baseball until the new millennium, so I'll just look at baseball since 2000. I believe that is when they hired Bianco.

Head to head: 40-39 MSU
Governor's Cups: 11-8 UM
40 win seasons: 7 each
50 win seasons: MSU with 1
SEC Tournament Champions: 3-3
SEC Champions: 1-0
NCAA Regional Appearances: 15-14 UM
NCAA Regional Hosts: 8-3 UM!
NCAA Super Regional Appearances: 8-5 MSU
NCAA Super Regional Hosts: 4-2 UM
CWS Appearances: 3-1 MSU
CWS Finals: 1-0

Certainly can't be denied that they upped their game with bianco. I remember well the days when our dominance in BB was met with snorts of derision about how they didn't care about 'stickball'. My how the tune changed.

Based on the comparison it is clear they have built a comparable program and based on their significant lead in hosting during that time have performed much better in the regular season. But also glaring is the lack of post season success. Comparing the two one can conclude that they have gotten more talent in oxfart but did less with it.

Another observation is that during this time period UM had just one HC whereas we have had five and not only managed to keep up with them, every one of them but Cann took us to omaha (pat's trip was prior to bianco). I think the burning question is what will happen to the mississippi program after bianco leaves?

 

[dawgstudent]

That's good info. Thanks for posting.

 

[8dog]

And we have actually hosted 4 times. 2000, 2003, 2013,2016

i wonder if anyone has won more road regionals than us in the super era

 

[Clarence Boddicker]

Based on the comparison it is clear they have built a comparable program and based on their significant lead in hosting during that time have performed much better in the regular season. But also glaring is the lack of post season success. Comparing the two one can conclude that they have gotten more talent in oxfart but did less with it.

Couldn't you also conclude that they were overrated, or somehow padded their schedule/RPI? How else can you explain the lack of Omaha trips, while we have 3 in that time period? All other metrics point to nearly equal talent. I've always said that the randomness of the CWS was more due to the committee not being able to properly pick the best teams, rather than the total randomness of 'thats baseball'. We need more advanced metrics than simply RPI and overall record. Advanced stats work much better in the pros than college, but at the same time, they can at least tell you SOMETHING.

I know people say you can have a "choking" program, but over 18 years you can change a program. I think it is more than that in Oxford. I still say their 2014 team could wipe the floor with their other more elite teams of 2018, 2009 and 2005. They had a ton of seniors on that team that stuck around and could mash, i.e. big talent.

 

[kendesu]

The most telling number to me is 1 CWS in 46 years vs. 9. They ended a 41 year CWS drought in 2014. Our longest drought ever is 8 years (1999-2006).

 

[Shmuley]

At bottom, one may conclude that Bianco has yet to figure out how to get an admittedly talented team to play up to their collective capabilities. That's a failure of coaching, pure and simple.

 

[patdog]

While they have generally done a good job of scheduling for RPI (we generally need to do better at this in both basketball and baseball), you can't pad your SEC schedule. Like it or not, UM has had a lot of legitimately good teams since Bianco got there. And they have choked a lot in the postseason.

I've always said that the randomness of the CWS was more due to the committee not being able to properly pick the best teams, rather than the total randomness of 'thats baseball'.

You are just wrong about this. Even the best teams are going to lose 25%-35% of the time. And with a double elimination format, it's almost guaranteed there will be several upsets in a regional, no matter how good a job the NCAA does with seeding. But it's happened often enough with Bianco's teams that it's probably not "just baseball" so much as it is he's just not a big-game coach.​

 

[Clarence Boddicker]

You are just wrong about this. Even the best teams are going to lose 25%-35% of the time. And with a double elimination format, it's almost guaranteed there will be several upsets in a regional, no matter how good a job the NCAA does with seeding. But it's happened often enough with Bianco's teams that it's probably not "just baseball" so much as it is he's just not a big-game coach.

Those same statistics work against you when you label Bianco as "not a big game coach". Most statistics point to talent, rather than clutch-ness. The reason good players tend to look clutch is because they succeed more often and therefore succeed more when it matters. In other words, either a coach is good or he isn't. We all know Bianco is in fact a good coach.

At minimum, my viewpoint stays consistent with statistics. And yes, you can pad an SEC schedule because you only play 10 teams out of a 14 team league. And I am not saying Ole Miss did this THIS year, they might have simply caught some bad luck in the regional.

 

[patdog]

You can't consistently pad an SEC schedule. And they've consistently had good SEC records since Bianco got there. The talent has definitely been there. There's no question their postseason failures aren't a talent issue.

 

[Clarence Boddicker]

You can't consistently pad an SEC schedule. And they've consistently had good SEC records since Bianco got there. The talent has definitely been there. There's no question their postseason failures aren't a talent issue.

They have had talent, but obviously not enough. They have played in 5 supers and been to 1 CWS. We have played in 8 supers and been to 3 CWS. We've been to a nearly even amount of regionals overall. That means we win more regionals and super regionals, which tells me we have had better elite talent, talent that gelled, whatever you want to call it. But honestly you probably could chalk up 2005 to bad luck and matchups (Texas won the title), which in this case would have them even with us on the percentages, around 40% super to CWS rate. It is a thin line.

When I hear people say oh don't worry about Ole Miss next year they always choke, that's a positive identification of an idiot, in my opinion.

 

[patdog]

They have had talent, but obviously not enough.

They clearly do have enough talent. 7 players drafted this year. 15 straight years with 4+ players drafted.

 

[dickiedawg]

Wait a second... Is Mike Bianco the same as Rick Stansbury?

 

[Clarence Boddicker]

They clearly do have enough talent. 7 players drafted this year. 15 straight years with 4+ players drafted.

I will give you credit. You simply gloss over all the good points and concentrate on the weakest. I still do not think you are correct on this issue, though. Give me a comparison between Ole Miss and MULTIPLE perennial CWS teams, as far as draftees, and I might engage further.

 

[patdog]

You really haven't made any good points. Here's a quick comparison for you. Last year, Florida had 8 players drafted and won the CWS. Mississippi had 7 drafted this year and lost in their regional.

 

[thekimmer]

Ignoring a SR loss for 'bad luck' out of 5 total is pretty significant....

They have had talent, but obviously not enough. They have played in 5 supers and been to 1 CWS. We have played in 8 supers and been to 3 CWS. We've been to a nearly even amount of regionals overall. That means we win more regionals and super regionals, which tells me we have had better elite talent, talent that gelled, whatever you want to call it. But honestly you probably could chalk up 2005 to bad luck and matchups (Texas won the title), which in this case would have them even with us on the percentages, around 40% super to CWS rate. It is a thin line.

When I hear people say oh don't worry about Ole Miss next year they always choke, that's a positive identification of an idiot, in my opinion.

But, even if you do and the winning percentages are roughly the same as you say, there is still another component to this analysis.

Of the 5 SR the sharts have been to they hosted 4 of em which means they performed well enough in the regular season to put themselves in a position to host but despite that they managed to win just 1. Conversely, we have been to 8 but hosted only 2 which means we have not as consistently performed well enough in the regular season to put us in position to host but despite that we went to 8 and won 3.

That demonstrates the point pretty well that mississippi has done better than us in the reg season but worse in the post season. What that means talent wise is debatable but I think the grind of the reg season tends to show who has the best collection of pure skill but the post season indicates who can do the most with what they have.

 

[Clarence Boddicker]

That demonstrates the point pretty well that mississippi has done better than us in the reg season but worse in the post season. What that means talent wise is debatable but I think the grind of the reg season tends to show who has the best collection of pure skill but the post season indicates who can do the most with what they have.

Very interesting way of viewing it. To me, who gets hot, which is a phrase often thrown around, seems to be random. Look at us, we have done it with 2 different coaches, Polk and Henderson. I think if you are going to choose a guy, you want the guy who amasses talent rather than trying to piece together a hot run.

Perhaps there is a middle ground in there, which to me, is where Cohen was. He obviously put together a very talented team in 2013 but also had the grinder mentality, i.e. the players that do more. He trended more towards just pure talent in 2016 and we underachieved in the postseason.

I think maybe that's the difference between us and Ole Miss, we are generally a tough team and they are soft. You could certainly call Bianco a soft coach. That does not mean he is not a big game coach, it simply means he has to out-talent you to beat you. Kevin O'Sullivan is another good example of this (and down there in Florida, he can do this consistently).

 

[ArrowDawg]

I miss the days when we could compare ourselves to programs like LSU. I'd like to get back to that. It's shameful that OM is even close to us(or ahead) in some of those numbers. Like Steve Robertson said on The Boneyard the other day, we've been "waiting to get lucky"(to win a title) for a while now. We weren't being bullish about raising the level of the baseball program, just maintaining. Now it seems we're finally dead serious about going and getting it, and it certainly helps having Cohen as AD.

 

[patdog]

Historically, we've been a feast or famine program. Even during what most people consider our heyday in the 80s, we had a lot of ups and downs. Then we neglected our program for much of the 90s until we broght McMahon back as an assistent and then head coach, then neglected it again for most of the 2000s. We're just now in recent years beginning to build a consistent winning program.

 

[tatedog]

The most telling number to me is 1 CWS in 46 years vs. 9. They ended a 41 year CWS drought in 2014. Our longest drought ever is 8 years (1999-2006).

Nice little factoid there for the Ole Miss football vs State baseball debaters. I'm fairly certain the Ole Miss gap in Sugar Bowls is longer than 8 years... and discounting Sugar Bowls where no conference champions are participating, it damn sure is.

 

[RutherfordBHayes]

2 things can’t be emphasized enough:

1 that these past 19 years have been their absolute best. They were horrendous prior to that. Easily the worst program in the West if not the entire SEC.

2 that this same period has easily been our absolute worst period. We didn’t have a losing season between 1976 and 2007. Since, we’ve had a few. Hopefully, we’re past that now.

 

[thekimmer]

I'm not a baseball coach but....

Very interesting way of viewing it. To me, who gets hot, which is a phrase often thrown around, seems to be random. Look at us, we have done it with 2 different coaches, Polk and Henderson. I think if you are going to choose a guy, you want the guy who amasses talent rather than trying to piece together a hot run.

Perhaps there is a middle ground in there, which to me, is where Cohen was. He obviously put together a very talented team in 2013 but also had the grinder mentality, i.e. the players that do more. He trended more towards just pure talent in 2016 and we underachieved in the postseason.

I think maybe that's the difference between us and Ole Miss, we are generally a tough team and they are soft. You could certainly call Bianco a soft coach. That does not mean he is not a big game coach, it simply means he has to out-talent you to beat you. Kevin O'Sullivan is another good example of this (and down there in Florida, he can do this consistently).

It appears to me that the most successful teams in the post season are able to develop a different mindset and a different approach than the regular season and perhaps that is where mississippi falls short. I think you have hit upon it in that it may be best described as mental toughness. The pressure ramps up x5 in post season. Teams that can handle that pressure often have an advantage even over a team that has better players. In that sense this is an asset that is every bit or more important than athletic talent and I think it is largely leadership driven.

 

[MSUDC11]

Polk II coincided with Bianco’s prime, and they owned us for a while because of it. We were 9-21 against them from 2004-2010.

On the flip side, we are 19-13 against them since 2011 and 10-2 against them since 2016. They’ve only won the season series (SEC + Gov. Cup) once in the last eight years (2015).