18 games into the Mike Leach tenure...

[dawgstudent]

this is his biggest game to date as coach of Mississippi State. A win and I think a lot of fans who are on the fence start believing. A loss in my opinion doesn't really hurt him but a win - it's huge. I've said this since the bye week - Kentucky is a game I think we should win.

It's rare to me where - versus Kentucky - a loss is less detrimental than a win being monumental but this is the case.

 

[PBRME]

This is one of 2 games I see left as a toss up game. To make a bowl we have to win either this one or AR.

 

[Jeffreauxdawg]

I agree but will add... A win is not necessary, but a competitive offense is. My big fear with Leach's offense is several SEC teams have his number the way Chris Petersen and Washington did in the PAC 12. The 3 games we have to be competitive in every year are Arkansas, Kentucky, and Ole Miss. Every other west team has significant advantages and you just have to pick them off when you can. But we have to win 2 out of 3 minimum against UK, Arky, and OM to have a decent season year in and year out.

Kentucky and Arkansas were the 2 worst games of the year last year. Competitive games against them this year will get me woolly. The offense getting shut down will not. I'm hopeful last year was just the new scheme and Costello/Will not knowing what to do yet.

If UK shuts us down Saturday (under 17 points) it gives me a lot of doubt about the long term prospects. If they win by 10+ but we score 28 or more, I have no concerns and will trust the process.

 

[She Mate Me]

I agree completely.

And we'll probably lose this one by 2 TDs and beat Arkansas and Ole Miss to get to 7 wins. That would be Leachish.

 

[missouridawg]

Robbie keeps alluding to it every Monday on T&L... but he keeps suggesting that if we just did something a little different, it would work better. This week, it was a reminder about how there's absolutely nothing in our playbook for first and 3 from the 3 yard line.

And that's the Mike Leach experience. It doesn't matter. Mike has his napkin. That's the playbook. And it ain't going to change. And he doesn't care how much it fails because, to him, if they execute his plays, his offense is unstoppable.

I'm going to continue to watch every football game MSU ever plays. But I have a really hard time liking Leach and will have a really hard time justifying spending a lot of money to go and watch a Leach coached team play unless it's convenient for me (the Texas Bowl would be convenience for me).

With all that being said, I hope we skulldrag UK.

 

[dorndawg]

If we can win 2 out of 3 against UK/Ark/Aub and be at 7 wins headed into the Egg Bowl, a lot of Leach doubters (like me) will get on board. A loss to UK obviously puts us behind the 8 ball on accomplishing that so I'm not sure a loss is less bad than a win is good.

 

[Msubulldogfan1]

I agree. A win is massive, it would really take a lot of pressure off the team imo. The EB would be gravy so we could play loose and fast, ideally.

 

[Go Budaw]

It will be interesting to see how long Kentucky stays in that club with the upcoming schedule changes that will occur when OU and Texas come on board. Could be that OM and Arkansas will be the only teams in said grouping over the long haul. And Arkansas has the money to utilize NIL to climb up a rung moreso than us and OM do.

 

[MStateU]

It’s this years egg bowl, right? Home game against a team that’s a little big for their britches.

 

[Beerbully]

I thought the football Gods had really smiled on us after the 2020 opener at LSU, but that was just fool's gold. Arkansas broke up the party the very next week with the cover-8 and most other teams have followed that lead. We've won some we didn't expect to win, and lost some we didn't expect to lose. It took Leach three years to get Washington State up and winning more than losing.

In terms of the importance of beating Kentucky, it would be the first time that Leach has won consecutive SEC games since arriving at State. That's sort of a milestone.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

I agree. A lot of fans may come around, but some people decided to pre-hate Leach and they won't come around.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

I don't think there is much that could convince me this year that Leach's long term prospects aren't good. I think next year will be way more telling. Team gets older. System is installed for 2 years + a COVID year. etc.

 

[HumpDawgy]

I believe this will always be a "Love/Hate" tenure with Leach.


I do wish he would, at the very least, hire a red zone coordinator.

 

[FlotownDawg]

I really don’t understand the Leach hate. Some of y’all really detest the guy and nothing that we do will make you happy. Is it because he’s kind of weird? You don’t think he takes football seriously enough? He has apparently taken it seriously enough to be a two-time national coach of the year and have a .600 winning percentage in two places where it’s hard to win. I really would like to know why some people hate Leach so much.

 

[dorndawg]

I agree. A lot of fans may come around, but some people decided to pre-hate Leach and they won't come around.

Shirley you aren't suggesting we have in our midst those who would form an opinion and never change it despite what reality shows?!?

 

[messageboardsuperhero]

I agree but will add... A win is not necessary, but a competitive offense is. My big fear with Leach's offense is several SEC teams have his number the way Chris Petersen and Washington did in the PAC 12. The 3 games we have to be competitive in every year are Arkansas, Kentucky, and Ole Miss. Every other west team has significant advantages and you just have to pick them off when you can. But we have to win 2 out of 3 minimum against UK, Arky, and OM to have a decent season year in and year out.

Kentucky and Arkansas were the 2 worst games of the year last year. Competitive games against them this year will get me woolly. The offense getting shut down will not. I'm hopeful last year was just the new scheme and Costello/Will not knowing what to do yet.

If UK shuts us down Saturday (under 17 points) it gives me a lot of doubt about the long term prospects. If they win by 10+ but we score 28 or more, I have no concerns and will trust the process.

We don’t have enough data yet to know what defenses in the SEC “have our number.” Bama certainly seems to, but that’s the only one I’m willing to concede at this point. And they’ve had our number for the last decade and a half regardless of coach.

Kentucky, Arkansas, and A&M all caught us at absolute rock bottom last year. So I don’t take much of anything from those performances as far as translating them going forward. If we had played Arkansas/UK in weeks 8-9 instead of 2-3, those are very different ball games. We combined for 10 INTs in those two games, and that isn’t happening again.

We didn’t put up a ton of points against A&M but moved the ball almost at will, and they have significantly more defensive talent than Kentucky and Arkansas.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

It's at least possible***

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

This is one of 2 games I see left as a toss up game. To make a bowl we have to win either this one or AR.

I'm worried honestly

View attachment 22557

 

[MSUDC11]

It's a big game but we all know good and well which game will be the one that shapes perception in our fanbase. Nobody will care that we beat Kentucky if we get smoked on Thanksgiving night.

We should expect to beat Kentucky at home 100% of the time. I am aware that this is one of their better teams. but we match up well with them and they've struggled here historically. You need this to be a win. At the same time, if you split the Kentucky and Arkansas games I'm not sure it matters a ton which one you win. But if you do beat Kentucky then it changes your potential ceiling for this season.

 

[FQDawg]

I really don’t understand the Leach hate. Some of y’all really detest the guy and nothing that we do will make you happy. Is it because he’s kind of weird? You don’t think he takes football seriously enough? He has apparently taken it seriously enough to be a two-time national coach of the year and have a .600 winning percentage in two places where it’s hard to win. I really would like to know why some people hate Leach so much.

I don't detest the guy at all. I didn't mind his antics when he was someone else's problem. But now he's our problem and, yeah, I don't love the fact that he seems to be easily distracted. He's also stubborn and smarmy and those are not qualities I really want in a head coach at MSU. It's one of the reasons why I soured on Croom and Moorhead. The common thread with those guys is that there is rarely, if ever, a Plan B. They're just going to keep doing their own thing even when it's clear it doesn't work. And they're going to tell you that you're blind if you don't see the progress.

The part about his record that you left out is that in 18 years as a head coach, he's got a grand total of two division co-championships. He's never even so much as played for a conference title.

If he would just stop running his mouth about inane nonsense, win a few more football games (i.e., don't lose to Memphis and a very beatable LSU), I think my feelings would be different. But he is who he is. And until he actually puts a few more wins on the board and cuts out the inexplicable "That's just part of the Mike Leach Experience" losses, I'm probably going to think he wasn't a great hire for us.

 

[dorndawg]

I don't detest the guy at all. I didn't mind his antics when he was someone else's problem. But now he's our problem and, yeah, I don't love the fact that he seems to be easily distracted. He's also stubborn and smarmy and those are not qualities I really want in a head coach at MSU. It's one of the reasons why I soured so quickly on Croom and Moorhead. The common thread with those guys is that there is rarely, if ever, a Plan B. They're just going to keep doing their own thing even when it's clear it doesn't work. And they're going to tell you that you're blind if you don't see the progress.

The part about his record that you left out is that in 18 years as a head coach, he's got a grand total of two division co-championships. He's never even so much as played for a conference title.

If he would just stop running his mouth about inane nonsense, win a few more football games (i.e., don't lose to Memphis and a very beatable LSU), I think my feelings would be different. But he is who he is. And until he actually puts a few more wins on the board and cuts out the inexplicable "That's just part of the Mike Leach Experience" losses, I'm probably going to think he wasn't a great hire for us.

Well said.

 

[missouridawg]

I don't detest the guy at all. I didn't mind his antics when he was someone else's problem. But now he's our problem and, yeah, I don't love the fact that he seems to be easily distracted. He's also stubborn and smarmy and those are not qualities I really want in a head coach at MSU. It's one of the reasons why I soured on Croom and Moorhead. The common thread with those guys is that there is rarely, if ever, a Plan B. They're just going to keep doing their own thing even when it's clear it doesn't work. And they're going to tell you that you're blind if you don't see the progress.

The part about his record that you left out is that in 18 years as a head coach, he's got a grand total of two division co-championships. He's never even so much as played for a conference title.

If he would just stop running his mouth about inane nonsense, win a few more football games (i.e., don't lose to Memphis and a very beatable LSU), I think my feelings would be different. But he is who he is. And until he actually puts a few more wins on the board and cuts out the inexplicable "That's just part of the Mike Leach Experience" losses, I'm probably going to think he wasn't a great hire for us.

'

Living in Texas and having a lot of acquaintances who know how big of a football fan I am, I get asked a lot about how I like Coach Leach. You summed up very well what I've tried to explain. I despise the guy's nonchalant attitude and reluctance to change when last year it was really 17ing clear that what he was doing wasn't working. That kind of stubbornness is something I just don't understand.

 

[messageboardsuperhero]

I'm worried honestly

View attachment 22557

IDGAF what the public thinks. There is a reason why most people who gamble lose money and the casinos keep getting bigger. Joe from Massachusetts sees even money in a game where a 6-1 top 15 team is going against a 4-3 team that just got blown out by Alabama, and he thinks it’s a steal. These are the games where books make a killing.

Computers say this game is a toss up. Vegas says it is a toss up. It is a toss up.

 

[FlotownDawg]

Dan Mullen was about the smarmiest guy to ever walk the sidelines at State, so I hope you had the same feelings for him. I’m sure Washington State was glad Leach was their problem when he led them to a 55-47 record in his eight years there (43-22 record his final five years) when in the eight years prior to Leach arriving they were 29-66.

 

[Smoked Toag]

I don't detest the guy at all. I didn't mind his antics when he was someone else's problem. But now he's our problem and, yeah, I don't love the fact that he seems to be easily distracted. He's also stubborn and smarmy and those are not qualities I really want in a head coach at MSU. It's one of the reasons why I soured on Croom and Moorhead. The common thread with those guys is that there is rarely, if ever, a Plan B. They're just going to keep doing their own thing even when it's clear it doesn't work. And they're going to tell you that you're blind if you don't see the progress.

The part about his record that you left out is that in 18 years as a head coach, he's got a grand total of two division co-championships. He's never even so much as played for a conference title.

If he would just stop running his mouth about inane nonsense, win a few more football games (i.e., don't lose to Memphis and a very beatable LSU), I think my feelings would be different. But he is who he is. And until he actually puts a few more wins on the board and cuts out the inexplicable "That's just part of the Mike Leach Experience" losses, I'm probably going to think he wasn't a great hire for us.

Three things here:

1) Leach doesn't have anything in common with Crxxms and Slophead. I said this earlier in a different thread. The whole 'do it over and over again' crap doesn't hold water because it was just an excuse for those two. Crxxms simply kept meddling where he shouldn't have (offense), and didn't embrace being a CEO/recruiter head coach. Slopface simply did not have a plan for discipline or just didn't know how, i.e. a *****. However I will say that he is a system coach, like Leach, and he helped ease the transition.

2) I agree with you on the Memphis and LSU games. Just win those and nobody is bitching. Memphis especially. I think most could live with the LSU loss, even moreso after the Texas A&M win. But Memphis was tough.

3) Dan Mullen may have been more smarmy than any of them. He wasn't stubborn though, so you need to define if it's smarmy that you dislike, or the combination of the two.

 

[CookieMonster.sixpack]

IDGAF what the public thinks. There is a reason why most people who gamble lose money and the casinos keep getting bigger. Joe from Massachusetts sees even money in a game where a 6-1 top 15 team is going against a 4-3 team that just got blown out by Alabama, and he thinks it’s a steal. These are the games where books make a killing.

Computers say this game is a toss up. Vegas says it is a toss up. It is a toss up.

If anything, this should make us feel great about our chances. If the public was so great at picking winners, they wouldn't call it gambling.

 

[CookieMonster.sixpack]

Shirley you aren't suggesting we have in our midst those who would form an opinion and never change it despite what reality shows?!?

 

[FQDawg]

I stopped reading at "Crxxms and Slophead." The really sad part is you think you're being clever.

 

[Ralph Cramden]

I agree with JLS on this one. If we beat Ky I'm gonna be wooly for the rest of the year but if we lose I'm not gonna cry about it. And this is definitely not your granddaddy's Ky team. They are good. Ask everybody's favorite coach about it. I do believe we are getting incrementally better but it is a little slow for me. The offense looking efficient and then hitting dry spells is frustrating. I survived Felker and Croom and it will come around

 

[dorndawg]

Sure, other than literally in this thread I posted I'd be happy to change my mind about Leach.

https://forums.sixpackspeak.com/sho...o-the-Mike-Leach-tenure&p=1977042#post1977042

 

[57stratdawg]

A UK win has us ahead of schedule, IMO. Depending on which MSU team shows up, we could beat Ark and/or Auburn. Suddenly, we're looking at a 7 win season if we can knock off UK.

That said, the biggest complaint so far with Leach is the inconsistency. It seems like we're probably due to for a let down after a solid performance in Nashville.

 

[Smoked Toag]

I stopped reading at "Crxxms and Slophead." The really sad part is you think you're being clever.

Not surprising that you continuously have a lack of information, which supports your freezing cold takes.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Also, the just heard that the XFL will return the field in 2022. Maybe Bob will be too busy with that to help his brother game plan.***

 

[patdog]

I really hope we don't shape our perception of this season based on Thanksgiving night, because I really don't think Thanksgiving night will be pretty. If we beat Kentucky and/or Arkansas, this will be a successful season. Period.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

I stopped reading at "Crxxms and Slophead." The really sad part is you think you're being clever.

I did because I'm becoming sick of these eighth grade pot shots at old coaches. We are not the same team we were then... we will never be the same team we were then so let it go.

 

[She Mate Me]

Not surprising that you continuously have a lack of information, which supports your freezing cold takes.

I've actually agreed with some things you've said here today, but it feels like you might need to reduce your caffeine intake on Mondays.

 

[Smoked Toag]

I did because I'm becoming sick of these eighth grade pot shots at old coaches. We are not the same team we were then... we will never be the same team we were then so let it go.

What about Danny Shorts?

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

What about Danny Shorts?

He's still game since he's still in the game and left the way he did... at least to me.

 

[oxfordrebel22]

I'm worried honestly

View attachment 22557

Honestly, that should make you feel better. Those sports books don’t pay their bills off losing.

 

[Irondawg]

I just don’t think we run it well enough when we do run it to win consistently. We have a numbers advantage every time we run amd we are lucky to get 3 yards most of the time. Our backs simply aren’t anything special in my opinion. They almost never run through a tackle of make a guy miss in space.

I’m not saying they are bad l, but they don’t appear to be in the same class of rb talent we’ve kinda gotten used to. I know both are a bit dinged up and playing through injuries so that could be some of it but there just hasn’t been any “wow” from that group in 2 years.