Saturday showed why RuNdAbAwL doesn't work against good teams........

OG Goat Holder · 2026-10-05T07:45:09-0500

Despite two turnovers, what was it that allowed us to stay in the game? At least until the defense wore out. Answer - pass game.

What could we not do, no matter what the name of the tailback was? Answer - RuNdAbAwL.

The pass sets up the run against the good teams, not the other way around. Coaches at all levels of football keep ignoring this at their own peril. I give Lebby credit for establishing the pass game, both with QB and WRs. And hint - we were good at this last year as well. But he also continues to just push the run over and over and over, and now it's gotten Fluff hurt. He just kept pounding and pounding against Mizzou and it wasn't necessary.

When are folks gonna learn? I mean as fans I guess it don't matter, we can continue to be stupid, but I really don't see why so many coaches don't see this simple fact. Run/pass balance is fake news.

So unless we think we're gonna go out and buy Georgia/Alabama level players, we better figure this out.

57stratdawg · 2026-10-05T08:01:29-0500

2019 John Cohen agrees

Bulldawg77 · 2026-10-05T08:07:07-0500

You are an idiot and show both.. your lack of football knowledge and your lack of understanding we were playing with injuries. Did it ever occur to you that maybe we just ran into a better team??? Just STFU.
One bad loss. We are 4-1 … 4 and 17 &1. Ranked 17th. Beat Minn Mizz and South Carolina. Your a$$ would have crawled through glass if I told you that this the record in preseason. We have very winnable games left as well.
How can you be a fan when you don’t attend games. Lie about attending games Constantly b!tch about the program and look for excuses to not give.

Maroon13 · 2026-10-05T08:09:42-0500

The Jackie Sherrill era says otherwise.

we played them close those years. We haven't been within a TD of them at the end of the game since 2017. Since 2020 they have out scored us something like 200+ points to 55 points.

OG Goat Holder · 2026-10-05T08:17:53-0500

Maroon13 said:
The Jackie Sherrill era says otherwise.

we played them close those years. We haven't been within a TD of them at the end of the game since 2017. Since 2020 they have out scored us something like 200+ points to 55 points.

I guess if you're content to live at 6-6 with a few bad years and an occasional up year (where you still can't beat the good teams). I want to contend for the playoff once in a while.

mcdawg22 · 2026-10-05T08:22:40-0500

Yes. We all remember the massive success we had against Alabama when we scored, (checks notes) an average of 3 points a game running the air raid.

Choctaw Dawg · 2026-10-05T08:30:49-0500

Fluff gets the amount of carries he gets because Kolin Wilson and Xavier Gayten are not all that great. Lebby has usually been a RB by committee guy and those rotations are not happening this year when Fluff is able to play a full game.

Kolin Wilson is 5'9" 190 lbs, He is Brandon Holloway 2.0. He is an open space back not a between the tackles running back. I don't really know what Gayten is at this point because it just hasn't come together for him yet and at this point it might not.

DesotoCountyDawg · 2026-10-05T08:35:26-0500

mcdawg22 said:
Yes. We all remember the massive success we had against Alabama when we scored, (checks notes) an average of 3 points a game running the air raid.

Brace Yourself Here We Go GIF by MOODMAN

The Cooterpoot · 2026-10-05T08:37:47-0500

Alabama-179 yards rushing
MSU- 18
Even for goat, this game was a terrible example for his point

OG Goat Holder · 2026-10-05T08:39:45-0500

Choctaw Dawg said:
Fluff gets the amount of carries he gets because Kolin Wilson and Xavier Gayten are not all that great. Lebby has usually been a RB by committee guy and those rotations are not happening this year when Fluff is able to play a full game.

Kolin Wilson is 5'9" 190 lbs, He is Brandon Holloway 2.0. He is an open space back not a between the tackles running back. I don't really know what Gayten is at this point because it just hasn't come together for him yet and at this point it might not.

The point is that no running back should be getting that many carries

Should be calling more pass plays

Dawgzilla2 · 2026-10-05T08:41:34-0500

If we were capable of running the ball against Bama Saturday, you might have a point. We couldn't get past the line of scrimmage. The people who want us to run the ball also want us to have the OL and RBs who are capable of running the ball.

Im not sure if anyone wants us to keep trying to run the ball when it is clearly futile.

OG Goat Holder · 2026-10-05T08:43:45-0500

Dawgzilla2 said:
If we were capable of running the ball against Bama Saturday, you might have a point. We couldn't get past the line of scrimmage. The people who want us to run the ball also want us to have the OL and RBs who are capable of running the ball.

Huh? If we were capable of running the ball, we should do it.

Dawgzilla2 said:
Im not sure if anyone wants us to keep trying to run the ball when it is clearly futile.

Well that's currently where we find ourselves against the top teams.

The only question is how to bridge that gap.......develop the pass game or develop the run game. Which is easiest to do?

22yardpunt · 2026-10-05T08:44:57-0500

The run can setup the pass if you can effectively run it on anyone. If you are running it down their throat then the D will obviously have to commit resources to slowing it down. Likewise, the pass can setup the run if you show that you can sling it effectively.

For us, to be really effective on offense, we need KT to be a run threat as well. In that scenario, I don’t think our offense can be stopped. KT was very limited past Saturday and we were missing Fluff, and it showed in how Bama schemed against us.

22yardpunt · 2026-10-05T08:46:54-0500

That would have been a different game this past weekend if we were healthy on the offense side of the ball. If KY can’t run it then the D doesn’t have to spy him or even worry about it, allowing the defense to get more exotic with its blitz packages if they know he won’t tuck and run. Otherwise they are playing with fire if they blitz and KT can’t run take advantage of running lanes.

OG Goat Holder · 2026-10-05T08:50:46-0500

22yardpunt said:
The run can setup the pass if you can effectively run it on anyone. If you are running it down their throat then the D will obviously have to commit resources to slowing it down. Likewise, the pass can setup the run if you show that you can sling it effectively

If you can effectively run the ball on anyone, your problem is solved. You will likely win every game you play. But easier said than done.

22yardpunt said:
For us, to be really effective on offense, we need KT to be a run threat as well. In that scenario, I don’t think our offense can be stopped. KT was very limited past Saturday and we were missing Fluff, and it showed in how Bama schemed against us.

That would help, it always does to have another runner. But if you can't also throw effectively, that eventually gets shut down too (Nick Fitz is a good example). Lucky for us, we do have a guy that can throw it effectively, which again, was the only reason we were in that game Saturday until the D just broke.

MSUDC11-2.0 · 2026-10-05T08:57:39-0500

We scored more points in the first half against Bama on Saturday than we scored against Bama in the entire Leach era combined.

OG Goat Holder · 2026-10-05T09:01:06-0500

MSUDC11-2.0 said:
We scored more points in the first half against Bama on Saturday than we scored against Bama in the entire Leach era combined.

And we did it throwing the ball, not running it. Why is this so difficult to grasp?

I'm sure, had we not had the 2 TOs, we'd have stayed with them.....and eventually, the pass game would open up the run a little. Not sure we win but we'd have had a fighting chance

CochiseCowbell · 2026-10-05T09:05:26-0500

OG Goat Holder said:
And we did it throwing the ball, not running it. Why is this so difficult to grasp?

I'm sure, had we not had the 2 TOs, we'd have stayed with them.....and eventually, the pass game would open up the run a little. Not sure we win but we'd have had a fighting chance

Those 2 TO's killed us more than anything and the out of bounds throw to Evans. Not necessarily because they happened, but more importantly WHEN they happened.

OG Goat Holder · 2026-10-05T09:12:05-0500

Maroon13 said:
The Jackie Sherrill era says otherwise.

we played them close those years. We haven't been within a TD of them at the end of the game since 2017. Since 2020 they have out scored us something like 200+ points to 55 points.

In answering another thread, I asked AI to show our wins vs. final ranked top 12 teams, essentially trying to judge our victories over potential playoff caliber teams. I got this:

Season Date Mississippi State result Opponent’s final AP rank Opponent record
1992 Oct. 1, 1992 Mississippi State 30, Florida 6 No. 10 9–4
1996 Nov. 16, 1996 Mississippi State 17, Alabama 16 No. 11 10–3
1997 Nov. 1, 1997 Mississippi State 20, Auburn 0 No. 11 10–3
2000 Sept. 30, 2000 Mississippi State 47, Florida 35 No. 10 10–3

And then of course if you keep going back you get Bama 1980, but a lot of this is a little too long ago to be considered relevant. But you do have a point about what King Jackie did.

So the key to me, is how do you sort of combine what we did back then and what works now? But I have to remember that none of what we've done has ever lead to sustained success.

ETA: I then asked the ones where we played within a TD:

Year Opponent Final AP rank Result Margin
1991 Alabama No. 5 Alabama 13, MSU 7 6
1994 Alabama No. 5 Alabama 29, MSU 25 4
2010 Arkansas No. 12 Arkansas 38, MSU 31 (2OT) 7
2014 Alabama No. 4 Alabama 25, MSU 20 5
2017 Alabama No. 4 Alabama 31, MSU 24 7
2020 Georgia No. 7 Georgia 31, MSU 24 7

I guess you can take just about anything from that.

POTUS · 2026-10-05T09:49:27-0500

Maroon13 said:
The Jackie Sherrill era says otherwise.

we played them close those years. We haven't been within a TD of them at the end of the game since 2017. Since 2020 they have out scored us something like 200+ points to 55 points.

Not the same environment. Not the same Alabama by a country mile. Sherrill, and I love him, was gifted one of the softest SECs in history in the late 90's. Comparing his era to this era is like comparing stock cars to F1 cars. Completely different animal.

POTUS · 2026-10-05T09:51:11-0500

OG Goat Holder said:
The point is that no running back should be getting that many carries

Should be calling more pass plays

Hey genius, most of the plays are both runs and passes. Up to the QB to decide. Maybe sit a few plays out.

Perd Hapley · 2026-10-05T09:51:28-0500

OG Goat Holder said:
Despite two turnovers, what was it that allowed us to stay in the game? At least until the defense wore out. Answer - pass game.

What could we not do, no matter what the name of the tailback was? Answer - RuNdAbAwL.

The pass sets up the run against the good teams, not the other way around. Coaches at all levels of football keep ignoring this at their own peril. I give Lebby credit for establishing the pass game, both with QB and WRs. And hint - we were good at this last year as well. But he also continues to just push the run over and over and over, and now it's gotten Fluff hurt. He just kept pounding and pounding against Mizzou and it wasn't necessary.

When are folks gonna learn? I mean as fans I guess it don't matter, we can continue to be stupid, but I really don't see why so many coaches don't see this simple fact. Run/pass balance is fake news.

So unless we think we're gonna go out and buy Georgia/Alabama level players, we better figure this out.

Is anyone arguing we should go back to a run-first offense? Where is all this coming from?

Howiefeltersnstch · 2026-10-05T10:19:29-0500

If you cant run block, backs aren't that good it sure doesn't work. If your qb is zero threat to run it makes it hard. We have to be able to run the ball. Balance is the answer. Keeping the defense guessing is the point. Our running game is not as effective when our qb is not a threat.

Maroon13 · 2026-10-05T10:58:18-0500

It is obviously a new day. But Alabama only lost 5 games from 91 to 94. Won a nc in 92. We gave them all they wanted those years.

Offenses today are obviously much more sophisticated and effective than in previous decades. But that 1994 offense was ideal.

State was stacked on RBs and had enough talent at wr to keep defenses semi honest. We fielded a physical defense too.

I guess my thoughts are you can not be a soft finesse team with little defense and expect to win big games In this league. Spurrier did it a few years but he also got his *** handed to him a few times.

With that said, Fluff is a tough dude. He doesn't have any blocking and his yards after contact is incredible. He gives this offense a run aspect that State didnt have Saturday without him.

L4Dawg · 2026-10-05T11:15:32-0500

OG Goat Holder said:
Despite two turnovers, what was it that allowed us to stay in the game? At least until the defense wore out. Answer - pass game.

What could we not do, no matter what the name of the tailback was? Answer - RuNdAbAwL.

The pass sets up the run against the good teams, not the other way around. Coaches at all levels of football keep ignoring this at their own peril. I give Lebby credit for establishing the pass game, both with QB and WRs. And hint - we were good at this last year as well. But he also continues to just push the run over and over and over, and now it's gotten Fluff hurt. He just kept pounding and pounding against Mizzou and it wasn't necessary.

When are folks gonna learn? I mean as fans I guess it don't matter, we can continue to be stupid, but I really don't see why so many coaches don't see this simple fact. Run/pass balance is fake news.

So unless we think we're gonna go out and buy Georgia/Alabama level players, we better figure this out.

What an idiot.

OG Goat Holder · 2026-10-05T11:18:52-0500

Maroon13 said:
It is obviously a new day. But Alabama only lost 5 games from 91 to 94. Won a nc in 92. We gave them all they wanted those years.

Offenses today are obviously much more sophisticated and effective than in previous decades. But that 1994 offense was ideal.

State was stacked on RBs and had enough talent at wr to keep defenses semi honest. We fielded a physical defense too.

I guess my thoughts are you can not be a soft finesse team with little defense and expect to win big games In this league. Spurrier did it a few years but he also got his *** handed to him a few times.

With that said, Fluff is a tough dude. He doesn't have any blocking and his yards after contact is incredible. He gives this offense a run aspect that State didnt have Saturday without him.

Passing does not mean soft and finesse. Spurrier's teams have never been finesse.

I really don't even think you can't define an offense as physical or finesse. Physical = good, finesse = bad.

And you made my point by the statement in the bold. Keeping the defense honest is the whole point. The only way to do that is the pass game.

Saturday showed why RuNdAbAwL doesn't work against good teams........

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