I rarely if ever comment on anything you say because frankly I find your opinions worthless.
Sha on the hot seat?
- Thread starter Halldan
- Start date
To this degree? Is to me -- I thought Cooley did a very good job at Providence pre-NIL, and with Georgetown's resources 100% expected him to turn that ship around.
I’ve heard legit basketball people say Sha runs good sets but: 1. Too slow, 2. Doesn’t recruit for offense, and I would add 3. The changeover in personnel is harder on offense than defense.
Pitino is heads and shoulders better than Cooley as a coach imo, and few coaches are better tooled to handle the bew world of college hoops. SJU craves good hoops. Does GU even care?
"He has done more with less NIL money than most coaches not only in the Big East but nationally as well."
Not sure what "he has done with less money." And it seems like a pretty low bar for success. Have never subscibed to the Trust-in-Sha mantra, yet don't think he is on the hot seat so long as he avoids a 10th or 11th place finish. But even if we moved on from him, whom do we bring in? I fear a return to the Blaney-Orr-Gonzo rotation.
Nobody will confuse Sha's offense with a Paul Westhead style showtime offense.
That said, if he had better and more talented players -- something most would agree SJU and UConn did -- those players would get more out of the offense, flaws and all.
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@Halldan just admit you were wrong. Everyone has bad takes. But “he has done more with less NIL money than most coaches not only in the big east but nationally as one” might take the cake.
What a crazy era. In 2023-24 he at least had the transfer rule to retain some talent. In 2024-25 not only was it NIL but also the transfer block left and SHU handed him less than $2M to build a team. We looked like it.
Last year he had under $6M – which is low, but not cataclysmic like the year before – and he did well with it, all things considered with both NET and KP in the 50’s and so close against SJU and UCONN that would’ve pushed it over the line to a strong season. It’s still short of the goal, but we’re not in normal times with this program.
Agreed. I understand why people make the comparison to Uconn and SJU because of their dominance the last few years, but it just doesn't work for several reasons IMO.
One, I think we all can agree that Sha's teams the last few years would have been better with more talented players. That's true of basically every team. The question of what you do with those players, whether you can attract them to begin with (even if you have $$ on par with other programs), how you develop them, and whether they want to stay with you beyond one year, can't be answered in a vacuum. Although it is a fair question as to whether Sha/Hall have a problem with the retention-piece that goes beyond dollars.
Second, it is unfair to compare Sha to either Rick Pitino or Danny Hurley. Sha isn't as good as those guys. And that's OK. Because Pitino is probably on the Mount Rushmore of college basketball coaches and Hurley has now become a HOFer/collegiate coaching legend himself.
he has had 2 winning seasons out of 4, both times being a bubble team. Not good enough for us, but far better than most shu teams, teams that played before moneyball.
Sounds like he just got a 6 year extension. The school knows we’re screwed with these current conditions. Shaheen is the only thing people know about Seton Hall anymore..
There never should have been any discussion. Just a stupid comment by Goodman that caused an issue that never was going to occur.
It’s also a complete misread of our situation by Goodman, who pays us no mind anyway. Sha has one of the coldest seats in the country IMO:
Fishham posted the composite records the other day in a separate post. Fair or not, that would get plenty of HCs in hot water at most other places especially at a program that had lived in the NCAA the half decade before. Here it is celebrated by most.
Any failure or sidestep gets excused for lack of resources.
He doesn’t have to deal with media here. At all. The only one that offers any coverage doesn’t have wide circulation/eye balls and besides that doesn’t challenge Sha on anything, ever.
He’s a former beloved star player and those tend to get treated better by fan bases etc.
There is basically no check on him, it seems, within the AD and school.
All that adds up to a great gig. You get to be at the place you love, paid millions annually, with low expectations, knowing the bar for you to get fired is very high, and can do whatever you want essentially without dealing with people who are going to challenge you.
Who here that’s been in the workforce wouldn’t sign up for that?
Points well taken. But, and it's a big but...you have to understand the mentality of Holloway. If you ever saw him in the post game after a loss as I often did, with one particular instance, a loss to Rutgers at the Rock, you would have seen a man so sick to his stomach he looked like he just lost his dog.
Multiply that by all the losses most head coaches face and you can say I would sign up for that in a minute, but would you ever have the same love for the school or work as hard as he does under very difficult circumstances and go through what he goes through.
There might be other coaches who work as hard as he does and there may be other coaches who take losses as hard as he does, but there are no coaches that I would imagine who takes those setbacks harder than he.
Sometimes it's more than just the money. Sometimes that's superseded by the desire to succeed.
Multiply that by all the losses most head coaches face and you can say I would sign up for that in a minute, but would you ever have the same love for the school or work as hard as he does under very difficult circumstances and go through what he goes through.
There might be other coaches who work as hard as he does and there may be other coaches who take losses as hard as he does, but there are no coaches that I would imagine who takes those setbacks harder than he.
Sometimes it's more than just the money. Sometimes that's superseded by the desire to succeed.
I never, ever doubt his passion, his desire to be successful here, his commitment to the Hall, or his competitive nature generally. I think most any good coach lives and dies with the losses, at all levels. That's part of what makes them good. Many other coaches would view the Hall as a "stop" before moving on to another program, and he definitely doesn't think of us that way. Do I think he's the only one that can do a good job here? Of course not. Do I think it is harder to find a good coach that "fits" the Hall than it is other places? Yes. If UCONN ever opened, you'd have coaches galore ready to jump to that gig. Providence had options this spring, it seemed, when that job opened up. The Hall is different, and harder, but it's always been that way. That's part of the challenge. The "upside" though is that the expectations here are lower than most other high majors, you aren't in the spotlight, you don't have to deal with media and "success" is basically getting to the NCAA most years, and frankly even a bit short of that as long as it isn't embarassing.
My point is that's what most believe but not Holloway. The pressure to succeed is internal. There is no solace in his being in a position where the pressure is less here than elsewhere. That does not motivate him.
Succeeding at the highest level is the only thing that matters to him. Pressure be damned as nothing outside of what he expects of himself is greater.
Seton Hall is very unlikely to find a coach such as he who sees his current position as a lifelong venture but will never settle for anything less that being the best. I doubt he will ever see SHU as a stepping stone to a better offer.
It's the reason he signed an exorbitant buyout figure to stay here.
Succeeding at the highest level is the only thing that matters to him. Pressure be damned as nothing outside of what he expects of himself is greater.
Seton Hall is very unlikely to find a coach such as he who sees his current position as a lifelong venture but will never settle for anything less that being the best. I doubt he will ever see SHU as a stepping stone to a better offer.
It's the reason he signed an exorbitant buyout figure to stay here.
No doubt you are right on that. But given how Sha is with the media, I think our media climate is a gigantic benefit to him and makes his life much easier. If he had multiple reporters not only covering the program 24/7 but asking him annoying, challenging or tough questions at times, that might be an issue. He will never get that here absent some type of major issue that draws significant eye balls. Even two years ago he would get testy at times from the lightest media touch.
There's little doubt that he does not handle the media as well as most of us would want. It is not a strength. But few coaches are perfect and the ones that are closest are at the elite schools.
I offer this....SHU will never be in the elite category as a 'destination' job. So what we have is the next best thing, a high quality coach who despite some flaws wants to be here not in a stepping stone position but as someone who will do what he has to as regards to maximizing the program's potential in a very difficult landscape.
I offer this....SHU will never be in the elite category as a 'destination' job. So what we have is the next best thing, a high quality coach who despite some flaws wants to be here not in a stepping stone position but as someone who will do what he has to as regards to maximizing the program's potential in a very difficult landscape.
I really don't care much about HC stability anymore. Used to be if your HC left, you were onboard for at least 2-3 rebuilding years with any decent players transferring out. In these times, you rebuild your roster every season from scratch anyway so as long as you provide resources a new coach can build things in a hurry.
The only benefit with Sha is he's proven to at least be competitive with limited resources and there is confidence he will do the right thing by Seton Hall because of his genuine love for the place. But those things only go so far, if he can't take the next step and get us to the NCAAT and competing for BE titles every few years then we need to look for a new coach.
IMO, this new 6-year deal gives him 3 years to take the next step. If he can't, that would be 7 straight years not making an expanded NCAAT field. If that happens, you have to look elsewhere.
The only benefit with Sha is he's proven to at least be competitive with limited resources and there is confidence he will do the right thing by Seton Hall because of his genuine love for the place. But those things only go so far, if he can't take the next step and get us to the NCAAT and competing for BE titles every few years then we need to look for a new coach.
IMO, this new 6-year deal gives him 3 years to take the next step. If he can't, that would be 7 straight years not making an expanded NCAAT field. If that happens, you have to look elsewhere.
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All true IF you give the coach at least middle level BE resources. If SHU cant do that, then how can you lay that on Holloway? IMO, that’s a failure of the University, not the coach. What is a coaching change going to accomplish if you can‘t give the new guy a competitive budget?
The University and Athletic Department have been a failure - no doubt. Changing the mindset and revamping the Athletic Department to be a revenue-producing business would be the first move I'd make. But that is unlikely giving our long-held ultra-conservative mindset. Our budget likely continues to be bottom tier. So the question is, if Sha can't make the NCAAT here, are we saying no one can?
After 7 years of not making a NCAAT, I think we'd have to try someone different. Maybe a coach with a different strategy for team-building, a different strategy towards offense, a charisma that is conducive to building relationships with players, fans, donors & media.
Sha's a good coach and I truly believe we should beg, borrow and steal to give him just 1 year with adequate resources. I think he'd get the results we want with proper investment and he deserved the contract extension. But I wouldn't be afraid to try something new if he can't get it done after Year 7. What would be the risk?
Stepping Stone Job
The 2 best coaches in our modern history PJ and Willard, had long tenures. Willard left for a top 10 job imo and PJ the NBA.
Orr was run out of the job after multiple NCAA bids and a huge win.
Blaney, Gonzalez say no more.
Amaker is truly the only coach that bolted prematurely and used the job as a stepping stone in the most mercenary sense.
The 2 best coaches in our modern history PJ and Willard, had long tenures. Willard left for a top 10 job imo and PJ the NBA.
Orr was run out of the job after multiple NCAA bids and a huge win.
Blaney, Gonzalez say no more.
Amaker is truly the only coach that bolted prematurely and used the job as a stepping stone in the most mercenary sense.
From Google
Yes, Seton Hall has historically served as a launching pad or stepping stone for college coaches, though the current administration is actively trying to break that reputation by securing current head coach Shaheen Holloway with long-term extensions. [1, 2, 3, 4]
The perception stems from several prominent factors regarding the program's place in the college basketball landscape: [1, 2]
Yes, Seton Hall has historically served as a launching pad or stepping stone for college coaches, though the current administration is actively trying to break that reputation by securing current head coach Shaheen Holloway with long-term extensions. [1, 2, 3, 4]
The perception stems from several prominent factors regarding the program's place in the college basketball landscape: [1, 2]
- Recent Precedent: Former head coach Kevin Willard used a successful tenure in South Orange to land a major power-conference job at the University of Maryland.
- The "Lifer" Shift: To avoid the constant turnover of the past, Seton Hall locked their current head coach, Shaheen Holloway, into a six-year contract extension. Holloway is an alumnus and Seton Hall native, making him much less likely to jump to a different program.
- Assistant Coaching Pipeline: While the head coach is meant to stay, Seton Hall is famous for acting as a career accelerator for its assistant coaches. Many assistants—including former associate head coach Shaheen Holloway prior to Saint Peter's—have used their time with the Pirates to secure Division I head coaching positions.
I just don't think when a coach stays for 10 years that it is a stepping stone move. I understand others will disagree.
I think Sha has to embrace the our guys get paid recruiting philosophy. Hopefully, we can up resources and be the payors for the talent we develop.
That's understandable. But please know that during Willard's tenure here he flirted announced and unannounced with other jobs before eventually leaving for Maryland.
I think my point about SHU being looked at as a stepping stone job is that with the exception of our current coach the hires which you listed had no other choices because they simply didn't have a resume conducive to leaving. Since PJ only Willard met that standard.
That said I believe if you asked those with inside knowledge of the sport few would say SHU is a destination job for any highly respected coach.
That's why I think Holloway is the exception and we should be thrilled he's our coach.
I think my point about SHU being looked at as a stepping stone job is that with the exception of our current coach the hires which you listed had no other choices because they simply didn't have a resume conducive to leaving. Since PJ only Willard met that standard.
That said I believe if you asked those with inside knowledge of the sport few would say SHU is a destination job for any highly respected coach.
That's why I think Holloway is the exception and we should be thrilled he's our coach.
So, try something for the sake of trying while everything else about the program stays below average. Sounds like a plan.
I actually think the BOR is good with the current plan. Invest enough to be in the range of the bottom third; retain a coach that will maximize the level of talent that discount money buys, and hope he punches through to the NCAA once every 3-5 years.
I have no issue with a coach flirting with a other school. There are plenty of reasons to do so. I love Sha but he has done the same -Louisville and others.
Back when Willard was head coach Shaheen used to wait in the car and as far as some are concerned he should still be there.