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Five in Five - What Might That Look Like?

BaccaFarmer

BaccaFarmer

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FlyingLion said:
Taking this a step further, what happens if a wrestler who barely qualifies for 5 years, like Bo, wants to transfer in college, does he lose a year if he transfers to a school that started their academic year later than his birthday?

I haven't read the proposed rules but I suspect the answer is yes, I doubt the NCAA left that loophole.
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I’m a no loophole kinda guy. Make a simple rule and invite no (zero) exemptions, exceptions, special circumstances. Want to go on a mission, go ahead …. your clock is ticking. Injured; Tough ****. Want to train in Colorado Springs … go ahead …. your clock it ticking too! Can’t make the starting lineup and want to transfer …. Go ahead, but, no extra year for you. Keep it simple and then even people with simple minds (and that includes everyone who works for the NCAA) will grasp and comply with the new rules. No lawyers either because five in five is completely fair and equal for everyone!!
 
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District 4

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El_Jefe said:
I'm outing myself as not having read the actual proposal ... but here are my questions:
1. Does this supersede the Covid free year? (Some guys who wrestled in 2021 still have eligibility.)
2. Are there exceptions for military service, Mormon 2-yr missions, etc.?
3. Does this mean no more medical hardship exceptions?
4. Will NCAA Wrestling continue the Olympic shirt (which includes an academic deferral)? This program has been a huge win for USA Wrestling.
5. Will grayshirting continue, or does the clock start upon HS graduation?

Some observations:
1. If 2021 is no longer a free year, then Ford Focus is done.
2. If no more grayshirting, the Ivies will be hit hardest. Cornell especially, will be unable to stash guys at Middle Finger Lake Community College, and their Ivy eligiblity clock will start immediately.
3. With no shirt to burn, no more lineup games centered around 5 competition dates.
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I'm thinking numbers of wrestlers at tournaments throughout the year will increase if everyone is eligible
 
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El_Jefe

El_Jefe

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District 4 said:
I'm thinking numbers of wrestlers at tournaments throughout the year will increase if everyone is eligible
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On the surface, seems true. I'm not sure it's that easy.

Without shirts, wrestlers are no longer required to pay their own way to retain eligibility. So schools can pay for more guys, budgets permitting.

But if too many guys go to any given event, then it counts as a team competition date.

Also, tourneys already have issues running long, causing guys to forfeit so they can drive hours to get home safely. This doesn't improve with more entries.

The answer is probably more tournaments, if there's an appetitite for that + enough organizers and volunteers.

Also, more tourneys is far easier on the east coast than in the south and west of the Rockies. Helps PSU and anOSU much more than Oregon State.
 
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SleepyLion

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Sep 1, 2022
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El_Jefe said:
On the surface, seems true. I'm not sure it's that easy.

Without shirts, wrestlers are no longer required to pay their own way to retain eligibility. So schools can pay for more guys, budgets permitting.

But if too many guys go to any given event, then it counts as a team competition date.

Also, tourneys already have issues running long, causing guys to forfeit so they can drive hours to get home safely. This doesn't improve with more entries.

The answer is probably more tournaments, if there's an appetitite for that + enough organizers and volunteers.

Also, more tourneys is far easier on the east coast than in the south and west of the Rockies. Helps PSU and anOSU much more than Oregon State.
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Are the number of competition dates really an issue anymore? Guys used to get 40 or so matches a year, now 20 or so. Not sure how the equates to competition dates, but I would think it would be more than a few less now than back in the day.
 
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El_Jefe

El_Jefe

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SleepyLion said:
Are the number of competition dates really an issue anymore? Guys used to get 40 or so matches a year, now 20 or so. Not sure how the equates to competition dates, but I would think it would be more than a few less now than back in the day.
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This isn't the redshirt rule limiting guys to 5 dates without burning a shirt. The team itself is limited to 16 team dates. Every dual counts as 1. Black Knight counted as 1, because enough wrestlers competed. Opens can count against the team if enough guys compete -- so the team needs to be careful to not send too many guys, otherwise the team will need to cancel a dual.

We've seen nothing saying that the team limit of 16 dates has been changed.
 
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Wrestleknownothing

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El_Jefe said:
This isn't the redshirt rule limiting guys to 5 dates without burning a shirt. The team itself is limited to 16 team dates. Every dual counts as 1. Black Knight counted as 1, because enough wrestlers competed. Opens can count against the team if enough guys compete -- so the team needs to be careful to not send too many guys, otherwise the team will need to cancel a dual.

We've seen nothing saying that the team limit of 16 dates has been changed.
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There are exceptions. Two duals in three days and multi-day competitions, like Collegiate Duals, count as one date of competition.
 
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Nitlion1986

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El_Jefe said:
This isn't the redshirt rule limiting guys to 5 dates without burning a shirt. The team itself is limited to 16 team dates. Every dual counts as 1. Black Knight counted as 1, because enough wrestlers competed. Opens can count against the team if enough guys compete -- so the team needs to be careful to not send too many guys, otherwise the team will need to cancel a dual.

We've seen nothing saying that the team limit of 16 dates has been changed.
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I am pretty sure there have been one or two instances where they left a date on the table. They can bump that number up, but I doubt PSU would automatically add competitive dates, unless it was to give the non starters competition opportunities.
 
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FlyingLion

FlyingLion

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Oct 31, 2021
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BaccaFarmer said:
I’m a no loophole kinda guy. Make a simple rule and invite no (zero) exemptions, exceptions, special circumstances. Want to go on a mission, go ahead …. your clock is ticking. Injured; Tough ****. Want to train in Colorado Springs … go ahead …. your clock it ticking too! Can’t make the starting lineup and want to transfer …. Go ahead, but, no extra year for you. Keep it simple and then even people with simple minds (and that includes everyone who works for the NCAA) will grasp and comply with the new rules. No lawyers either because five in five is completely fair and equal for everyone!!
Click to expand...
 
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Goggles Paisano

Goggles Paisano

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Am I the only one who doesn't like or want five for five?



4 in 5 yes, but 5 in 5 seems to hurt both the flexibility previously given to coaches as well as the kid's careers at their school of first choice. I am not a big fan of anything that will make the portal even more active than it already is, and 5 for 5 will 'push' kids into the portal. Wrestling is likely an afterthought for the NCAA, while for football 5 for 5 is a total nothing burger, with the best kids long gone already before it has any effect.
 
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SRATH

SRATH

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I thought Wendy’s was bring back their Five for Five deal. This wrestling 💩is boring.
 
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mjmirv

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Has this five for five thing already been passed? I’m a little bit confused right now. Is this currently in the proposal stage or is it active for the 26/27 season?
 
D

District 4

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Goggles Paisano said:
Am I the only one who doesn't like or want five for five?



4 in 5 yes, but 5 in 5 seems to hurt both the flexibility previously given to coaches as well as the kid's careers at their school of first choice. I am not a big fan of anything that will make the portal even more active than it already is, and 5 for 5 will 'push' kids into the portal. Wrestling is likely an afterthought for the NCAA, while for football 5 for 5 is a total nothing burger, with the best kids long gone already before it has any effect.
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I'm sceptical for sure however..... I think there will be more parity if kids are trying to wrestle right out of high school. The elimination of medical shirts and red shirts will also limit what coaches can do to plug kids in. It's going to be a **** show in my opinion
 
Fatwoodchuck

Fatwoodchuck

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Goggles Paisano said:
Am I the only one who doesn't like or want five for five?



4 in 5 yes, but 5 in 5 seems to hurt both the flexibility previously given to coaches as well as the kid's careers at their school of first choice. I am not a big fan of anything that will make the portal even more active than it already is, and 5 for 5 will 'push' kids into the portal. Wrestling is likely an afterthought for the NCAA, while for football 5 for 5 is a total nothing burger, with the best kids long gone already before it has any effect.
Click to expand...

I think the 5 for 5 isnt so bad. It really doesnt take away from a wrestler unless injury occurs but there is way to many med shirts anyway. Most freshman aren't ready to go right out of high school anyway. It only really effects tje freshman that might be ready if an elite upper classmen is still there.

In general I think it will all work it's self out and won't really change too much that it would actually weaken a team or change the recruiting process.

Its adaptable.

Ps I like your posts forget about all the **** talked on you, you be you and I'll enjoy it.
 
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McScoreley

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Acacia said:
And more importantly (my opinion) Lilledahl has 3 more years...
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Yup - could complicate things with Sidun, who probably wants all 5 years.

But Lilledahl could go 133 though he'd probably prefer to keep his weight low in an Olympic year.

For 2029 NCAAs, we still have
Lilledahl
Duke
James
Blaze
Henckel

Potentially (I label them as portal risks obviously):
Mirasolas
Sealey
 
W

Wrestleknownothing

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District 4 said:
Won't they have 4 either way 3 plus a redshirt
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Under the old rules they would get three more years, four total. Under the new rules they would get four more years, five total.

The only drawback of the new rules is if they get injured two or more times they lose those years.

Edit: I am making some assumptions here, not having seen the actual rule yet.
 
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a_mshaffer

a_mshaffer

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Dec 8, 2014
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interesting... making this strange in my part. Simple next step is u get 5 to compete in 4
 
BaccaFarmer

BaccaFarmer

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TwoJoints said:


Here’s an explanation of 5 in 5 from a guy who helps HS athletes and their families understand the recruiting process.
Click to expand...

Well …. that was enlightning. Given the three exemptions he mentioned . . . I would
Anticipate that some budding entrepreneurs will set up Religious constructs that allow 19 & 20 year olds to attend religious missions adjacent to places like the Diana Wrestling Sports Center in Bulgaria. Is wrestling not a religion?
 
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JesseBelle

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Oct 19, 2017
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BaccaFarmer said:
Well …. that was enlightning. Given the three exemptions he mentioned . . . I would
Anticipate that some budding entrepreneurs will set up Religious constructs that allow 19 & 20 year olds to attend religious missions adjacent to places like the Diana Wrestling Sports Center in Bulgaria. Is wrestling not a religion?
Click to expand...
Typical NCAA response. Take a problem and make it worse
 
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District 4

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Wrestleknownothing said:
Under the old rules they would get three more years, four total. Under the new rules they would get four more years, five total.

The only drawback of the new rules is if they get injured two or more times they lose those years.

Edit: I am making some assumptions here, not having seen the actual rule yet.
Click to expand...
My question i guess is this. If a wrestler can choose the old way as opposed to the new 5 for 5 then the wrestlers mentioned would have 4 more years either way because they would still be able to use a redshirt under the old rules. Of course I'm not sure that is an option just spitballing based on what some have suggested with the option
 
El_Jefe

El_Jefe

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District 4 said:
My question i guess is this. If a wrestler can choose the old way as opposed to the new 5 for 5 then the wrestlers mentioned would have 4 more years either way because they would still be able to use a redshirt under the old rules. Of course I'm not sure that is an option just spitballing based on what some have suggested with the option
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Under the old rules, Blaze and Duke have 3 years left to compete, plus a shirt if they get around to using it.

Under the new rules, they have 4 years left to compete.

This is a complete no-brainer for them, unless a 2028 Olympic shirt remains an option and they intend to take it.
 
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McScoreley

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El_Jefe said:
Under the old rules, Blaze and Duke have 3 years left to compete, plus a shirt if they get around to using it.

Under the new rules, they have 4 years left to compete.

This is a complete no-brainer for them, unless a 2028 Olympic shirt remains an option and they intend to take it.
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It's interesting but historically college wrestlers who had success at OTT and then the Olympics wrestled the folk season.

Cox - yolo threw his name in the ring at 86 after wrestling 197 all season ... won as a 9 seed and won Bronze.
Snyder - Gold in 2016, wrestled the college season
Gable - Gold in 2021, wrestled the college season
Brooks - Bronze in 2024, wrestled the college season

If you want to look at a negative case, Spencer wrestling the 2021 college season definitely ruined his Olympic hopes obviously
 
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Corby2

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98lberEating2Lunches

98lberEating2Lunches

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Corby2 said:
Wasn't expecting Hockey to be the reason for the delay. NHL and all the other hockey organizations are fighting it
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So many Jr Hockey players transition to D1 college hockey long after that start time. Makes sense to me. PSU has had very few HSers straight into the program.
 
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Acacia

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There are 65 Division 1 mens hockey teams...

There is no exact total number of Division I hockey redshirts because the NCAA does not publicly track or aggregate a static count of redshirt players across individual seasons.Because player usage, medical hardships, and roster developments change continuously throughout the year, calculating a precise figure is impossible. However, the concept of redshirting functions differently in college hockey compared to other sports for a few key reasons:

The Junior Hockey Factor: In Division I hockey, traditional athletic redshirting is virtually nonexistent. The vast majority of players spend one to three years developing in junior leagues (like the USHL, BCHL, or NAHL) before stepping onto a college campus. Because this "development year" already serves the purpose of a redshirt, players rarely sit out a year on campus burning their academic eligibility.

Medical Redshirts: The most common type of redshirting in Division I hockey is a medical hardship waiver. This allows a player to regain a year of eligibility if they suffer a season-ending injury and play in less than 30% of the team's games.

Roster Limits: NCAA rules set hard 26-man roster limits for Division I hockey. With active roster spots so limited, coaches generally utilize every available player in their lineup throughout the season rather than holding a player out for an entire healthy year.
 
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Wrestleknownothing

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Acacia said:
There are 65 Division 1 mens hockey teams...

There is no exact total number of Division I hockey redshirts because the NCAA does not publicly track or aggregate a static count of redshirt players across individual seasons.Because player usage, medical hardships, and roster developments change continuously throughout the year, calculating a precise figure is impossible. However, the concept of redshirting functions differently in college hockey compared to other sports for a few key reasons:

The Junior Hockey Factor: In Division I hockey, traditional athletic redshirting is virtually nonexistent. The vast majority of players spend one to three years developing in junior leagues (like the USHL, BCHL, or NAHL) before stepping onto a college campus. Because this "development year" already serves the purpose of a redshirt, players rarely sit out a year on campus burning their academic eligibility.

Medical Redshirts: The most common type of redshirting in Division I hockey is a medical hardship waiver. This allows a player to regain a year of eligibility if they suffer a season-ending injury and play in less than 30% of the team's games.

Roster Limits: NCAA rules set hard 26-man roster limits for Division I hockey. With active roster spots so limited, coaches generally utilize every available player in their lineup throughout the season rather than holding a player out for an entire healthy year.
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Any chance this is an AI answer?
 
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