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End of the Prime mystique

CatManTrue

CatManTrue

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Purple Pile Driver said:
Their college funds or your college funds? I got some news for you, telling your kids what they can or can’t study likely won’t end up well for either of you.
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They’re both young but ALL OVER math & learning science. They love learning how things are built and engineered. We also talk about the value of a dollar, how to save, and the importance of compounded interest and investing their time and resources wisely.

I’m not too worried about them, or my niece, studying for a REAL degree or wasting their college funds.

The 529s can be used on educational expenses aside from college. But, as some if my friends have with their college kids, they are fortunate than most and to spend their tuition dollars wisely.
 
TheC

TheC

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CatManTrue said:
Not yet but I won’t let mine waste their college funds on a degree that has literally no ROI. No sane parent would!

If my kid tells me they want to spend $300-400K on a sociology, art history, exercise science or other nonsense degree (OSU reference for @EvanstonCat )… then I will let them know they’re on their own for the law / real master’s degree they’ll need to turn it into something useful.

Have you read the headlines? BS degrees are not landing jobs.

I’m also the kind of dad who would encourage my kids to trade school - and then to use their college funds to start a business - using said trade rather than waste four years of their lives and a small fortune.
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Me trying to tell you you´re wrong and making terrible decisions would be as stupid as you telling that to everybody else, so I won´t. I´ll just say I wish we had more sociology and art majors and less business majors. Our society might be a lot stronger and more understanding.
 
CatManTrue

CatManTrue

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TheC said:
Me trying to tell you you´re wrong and making terrible decisions would be as stupid as you telling that to everybody else, so I won´t. I´ll just say I wish we had more sociology and art majors and less business majors. Our society might be a lot stronger and more understanding.
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People who want to be artists should do so. Not spend a small fortune on a 4 year degree that will not benefit their art career.

The only people who are successful with sociology degrees are those that go to law school and enter politics.

We need more engineers, mathematics majors, and people who understand real science.

We REALLY NEED more HVAC maintainers, plumbers, electrician, teachers, nurses, construction workers, mechanics, et al.

Not fluffy feel good majors which leave reliant on their parents or the government teat.
 
AdamOnFirst

AdamOnFirst

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TheC said:
Me trying to tell you you´re wrong and making terrible decisions would be as stupid as you telling that to everybody else, so I won´t. I´ll just say I wish we had more sociology and art majors and less business majors. Our society might be a lot stronger and more understanding.
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More baristas with septum piercings? Pass…
 
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Purple Pile Driver

Purple Pile Driver

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AdamOnFirst said:
529 accounts are still the legal property of the original account owner, aka the parent/grandparent
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Believe me, I understand that. I also don’t know a single account owner who said these funds are not yours if you want to pursue a “terrible” major in their estimation.
 
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prez77

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CatManTrue said:
What most call a Sociologist, I call a wannabe Economist who couldn’t do math or study a real science.

If any of my kids tell me they want to study Sociology in college then I will recommend they go to trade school. Full stop.
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I think you're enjoying some outrage but the truth is more like this - and I know: There are Mickey Mouse sociology degrees that are what you are kind of describing designed to let people with no analytical skills skate through. There are also serious sociologists in management science, around government, the academy, that are using extremely high-powered statistical models and doing all kinds of complex, interesting things. Economists and sociologists often borrow from the same statistical/mathematical foundations in probability mathematics, data reduction and regression. In my professional work, I have found myself borrowing from both literatures depending on the problems I have been tasked with.
 
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CatManTrue

CatManTrue

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prez77 said:
I think you're enjoying some outrage but the truth is more like this - and I know: There are Mickey Mouse sociology degrees that are what you are kind of describing designed to let people with no analytical skills skate through. There are also serious sociologists in management science, around government, the academy, that are using extremely high-powered statistical models and doing all kinds of complex, interesting things. Economists and sociologists often borrow from the same statistical/mathematical foundations in probability mathematics, data reduction and regression. In my professional work, I have found myself borrowing from both literatures depending on the problems I have been tasked with.
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Very fair counterpoint, and I agree: the sociology students, professionals, and papers/studies that use real statistics are worth the effort, but I imagine you need a Master’s or PhD to get to that level. Similar to political science majors: those like Nate Silver who do MAJOR number crunching and analysis are real, or True.

Ethnography, “sociology of education”, “cultural sociology”, and other highly qualitative practices… waste of money. 😂

I don’t enjoy the outrage, but I am used to it when speaking the Truth to people who do not understand math. A surprising number of people are afraid of math, which saddens me.

But if you’re a sociologist who has these tools in your toolbox then we would jive quite well:
  • multivariate regression (OLS, logistic, hierarchical models)
  • causal inference (difference-in-differences, IV, matching)
  • longitudinal/panel data analysis
  • survey weighting and sampling theory
  • social network analysis
  • experiments (lab and field) that are held to the same standard as clinical trials, or as close as they can get
 
CatManTrue

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Purple Pile Driver said:
Is this a rhetorical question?
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Well he has a point. 529 college funds can technically be switched at any point as well as other college directed savings, and there’s a decent probability my sons reject college. If it is for the right reasons, then we can convert all the money into a startup fund.

If they reject continued education for the wrong reasons, then they can find out how much rent, food, and transportation costs the Hard Way - like we did. 😉

This may shock you but I was nearly employable from my computer programming as a freshman at Stevenson alone before I moved to Ohio.

This was at the turn of the millennium, but there are a lot of people who will find incredible careers this century without wasting hundreds of thousands of dollars on a degree they may or may not need.
 
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Purple Pile Driver

Purple Pile Driver

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We actually aren’t far off on this. I think that not all kids should pursue college. At some point, there became this stigma that you had to go to college or you were a dumb ****. Tradesman aren’t going away anytime soon.

However, parents or grandparents withholding 529 funds to me is not recommended. It’s not good parenting IMO, despite being well intended. Kids have to find their own way. I don’t think pushing them into something they won’t care for makes any sense. I learned way more about life at college outside of the classroom than I did in almost all classes.
 
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WestCoastWildcat

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DaCat said:
I took Intro to Sociology by Professor Moskos, a welcome break from my ChemE curriculum. It turned out to be an interesting class beyond my expectations, mainly due to Moskos. And as easy as I had hoped, snagging that A.
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Anyone remember Sociology Prof. Bernie Beck? I think he is still alive. NU’s Sociology Dept. was influential back in the day. Another entertaining class was with popular English prof Bergen ‘Bergie’ Evans which was always full. He had a connection writing for famous tv shows early on. It would be fun to watch his old lectures if they were recorded. Here is his obit from the NY Times.

 
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prez77

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WestCoastWildcat said:
Anyone remember Sociology Prof. Bernie Beck? I think he is still alive. NU’s Sociology Dept. was influential back in the day. Another entertaining class was with popular English prof Bergen ‘Bergie’ Evans which was always full. He had a connection writing for famous tv shows early on. It would be fun to watch his old lectures if they were recorded. Here is his obit from the NY Times.

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Absolutely Bernie Beck. And apropos of this board, NU roundballer star Jim Pitts was on the sociology faculty. Terrific guy and friend.
 
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prez77

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CatManTrue said:
Very fair counterpoint, and I agree: the sociology students, professionals, and papers/studies that use real statistics are worth the effort, but I imagine you need a Master’s or PhD to get to that level. Similar to political science majors: those like Nate Silver who do MAJOR number crunching and analysis are real, or True.

Ethnography, “sociology of education”, “cultural sociology”, and other highly qualitative practices… waste of money. 😂

I don’t enjoy the outrage, but I am used to it when speaking the Truth to people who do not understand math. A surprising number of people are afraid of math, which saddens me.

But if you’re a sociologist who has these tools in your toolbox then we would jive quite well:
  • multivariate regression (OLS, logistic, hierarchical models)
  • causal inference (difference-in-differences, IV, matching)
  • longitudinal/panel data analysis
  • survey weighting and sampling theory
  • social network analysis
  • experiments (lab and field) that are held to the same standard as clinical trials, or as close as they can get
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Yup - much of my career has been in what I call "applied sociology", although that was not my major. Mastery of those techniques would be graduate material but NU does have a data analytics major or concentration in the education and social policy school where undergrads would learn that stuff.
 
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Eurocat

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TheC said:
I wish we had more sociology and art majors and less business majors. Our society might be a lot stronger and more understanding.
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I wish we had the exact opposite. More pracitants in areas that make money. Northwestern used to have an undergraduate schoool for business students (it was called the College of Commerce). We should renew that and get some billionaires back in school.
 
TheC

TheC

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Eurocat said:
I wish we had the exact opposite. More pracitants in areas that make money. Northwestern used to have an undergraduate schoool for business students (it was called the College of Commerce). We should renew that and get some billionaires back in school.
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You are entitled to that opinion and I won't try to change your mind. I just feel we would be a better nation with fewer billionaires and more people who understood human kind and what makes life worth living.
 
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Purple Pile Driver

Purple Pile Driver

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TheC said:
You are entitled to that opinion and I won't try to change your mind. I just feel we would be a better nation with fewer billionaires and more people who understood human kind and what makes life worth living.
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Pretty sure Billionaires understand human kind and what makes life worth living as well as any other income demographic outside of clergy that take a vow of poverty!
 
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TheC

TheC

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Purple Pile Driver said:
Pretty sure Billionaires understand human kind and what makes life worth living as well as any other income demographic outside of clergy that take a vow of poverty!
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I really don't agree with that, but..... it's not an argument anybody is ever going to win.
 
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Eurocat

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TheC said:
You are entitled to that opinion and I won't try to change your mind. I just feel we would be a better nation with fewer billionaires and more people who understood human kind and what makes life worth living.
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I never said, that we should eliminate the English or Philosophy department or heaven forbid Theater or something like that. Heck I took so many theater classes at NU people thought I was a theater major. I am talking about what we could ADD (not reducing anything). I am sure we could find space for it in the Kellogg building and we can always squeeze in a new dorm somewhere. Thanks for your reply, though, I can definitely see your point, just thought I should clarify.

Go Cats.
 
GatoLouco

GatoLouco

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When you’re a parent, you often have an internal debate about whether to push your child toward a certain outcome or not.

The challenge is that pushing too hard can come with a risk: potentially affecting the kind of relationship you’ll have with your child for the rest of your life.

Good chance, if you don't have such feelings, you are a :poop: parent.
 
AdamOnFirst

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I love how of all the majors being defending as enriching to humanity and in opposition to commerce we’re going with SOCIOLOGY. Not like fine arts and creative writing to make an army of artists alongside a bunch of engineers who build and maintain public infrastructure. No, effing low-watt social scientists. THATS what we’re missing. It’s a milquetoast joke argument even among the standards of the “education for its own sake regardless of cost plus anti billionaires” crowd. Have some courage of your convictions!

(fun fact, I looked it up at sociology isn’t AS BAD a major as I thought. It’s bad and solidly below average - and also definitely populated by a lot of the absolute worst people - but it doesn’t show up on any bottom 20 type lists. So there.)
 
Purple Pile Driver

Purple Pile Driver

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AdamOnFirst said:
I love how of all the majors being defending as enriching to humanity and in opposition to commerce we’re going with SOCIOLOGY. Not like fine arts and creative writing to make an army of artists alongside a bunch of engineers who build and maintain public infrastructure. No, effing low-watt social scientists. THATS what we’re missing. It’s a milquetoast joke argument even among the standards of the “education for its own sake regardless of cost plus anti billionaires” crowd. Have some courage of your convictions!

(fun fact, I looked it up at sociology isn’t AS BAD a major as I thought. It’s bad and solidly below average - and also definitely populated by a lot of the absolute worst people - but it doesn’t show up on any bottom 20 type lists. So there.)
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Atlas Shrugged.
 
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Eurocat

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AdamOnFirst said:
I love how of all the majors being defending as enriching to humanity and in opposition to commerce we’re going with SOCIOLOGY. Not like fine arts and creative writing to make an army of artists alongside a bunch of engineers who build and maintain public infrastructure. No, effing low-watt social scientists. THATS what we’re missing. It’s a milquetoast joke argument even among the standards of the “education for its own sake regardless of cost plus anti billionaires” crowd. Have some courage of your convictions!

(fun fact, I looked it up at sociology isn’t AS BAD a major as I thought. It’s bad and solidly below average - and also definitely populated by a lot of the absolute worst people - but it doesn’t show up on any bottom 20 type lists. So there.)
Click to expand...
My second favorite class at Northwestern was Charlie Mosko's famous Sociology class. For years it was ranked up top as the best class along with Irwin Weils introduction to Slavic Studies (took that one too!). Charlie had two sons who are killing it, one is a tenured prof like his dad, the other runs improve Boom Chicago in Amsterdam and was just featured on 60 Minutes like two or three weeks ago. Son Andrew was my college roommate - wonderful dude just like his dad and for that matter his mom just wonderful - she was someone always with a ready smile. Great people all.
 
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CatManTrue

CatManTrue

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Purple Pile Driver said:
Pretty sure Billionaires understand human kind and what makes life worth living as well as any other income demographic outside of clergy that take a vow of poverty!
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You would be surprised how out of touch with reality billionaires usually are.

They understand human kind and how to profit off of us, but not necessarily what makes life worth living.

Frankly most are weirdos.
 
CatManTrue

CatManTrue

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Eurocat said:
My second favorite class at Northwestern was Charlie Mosko's famous Sociology class. For years it was ranked up top as the best class along with Irwin Weils introduction to Slavic Studies (took that one too!). Charlie had two sons who are killing it, one is a tenured prof like his dad, the other runs improve Boom Chicago in Amsterdam and was just featured on 60 Minutes like two or three weeks ago. Son Andrew was my college roommate - wonderful dude just like his dad and for that matter his mom just wonderful - she was someone always with a ready smile. Great people all.
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I think you are a bit older than me.

By the time I took Intro to Sociology with Moskos, it was mostly easy trivia and references to his Clinton-era peers and decisions.

It was an easy A and sometimes entertaining. But I learned the least from it compared to any other course I took at Northwestern
 
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