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FC/OT: New York Times' 30 Greatest Living American Songwriters.

Midnighter

Midnighter

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I love these lists because of the debate and edification from this board. Listened to a podcast with interviews of Taylor Swift and a few others on this list and a notable name missing is Billy Joel. What does everyone think? Personally, Jay-Z doesn't cut it for me - Eminem way more clever and less reliant on production. No real immediate thoughts on anyone else, save Fiona Apple, Lana Del Rey, and especially Stephen Merritt are deserving. Dolly Parton and Stevie Wonder are absolute no brainers.

www.nytimes.com

The 30 Greatest Living American Songwriters

More than 250 music insiders and six New York Times critics weighed in on who defines the new American songbook. Here are the artists they chose.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

In no particular order...

  1. Stevie Wonder
  2. Dolly Parton
  3. Bob Dylan
  4. Taylor Swift
  5. Fiona Apple
  6. Lana Del Rey
  7. Jay-Z
  8. Bad Bunny
  9. Kendrick Lamar
  10. Willie Nelson
  11. Babyface
  12. Mariah Carey
  13. Carole King
  14. Nile Rodgers
  15. Lucinda Williams
  16. Outkast
  17. Paul Simon
  18. Brian & Eddie Holland
  19. Missy Elliott
  20. Lionel Richie
  21. Young Thug
  22. Diane Warren
  23. Josh Osborne, Shane McNally, and Brandie Clark
  24. Stephen Merritt
  25. Romeo Santos
  26. Valerie Simpson
  27. The - Dream
  28. Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis
  29. Bruce Springsteen
  30. Smokey Robinson
LIst of 'honorable mentions'....

 
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Chumboshifko1

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Midnighter said:
I love these lists because of the debate and edification from this board. Listened to a podcast with interviews of Taylor Swift and a few others on this list and a notable name missing is Billy Joel. What does everyone think? Personally, Jay-Z doesn't cut it for me - Eminem way more clever and less reliant on production. No real immediate thoughts on anyone else, save Fiona Apple, Lana Del Rey, and especially Stephen Merritt are deserving. Dolly Parton and Stevie Wonder are absolute no brainers.

www.nytimes.com

The 30 Greatest Living American Songwriters

More than 250 music insiders and six New York Times critics weighed in on who defines the new American songbook. Here are the artists they chose.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

In no particular order...

  1. Stevie Wonder
  2. Dolly Parton
  3. Bob Dylan
  4. Taylor Swift
  5. Fiona Apple
  6. Lana Del Rey
  7. Jay-Z
  8. Bad Bunny
  9. Kendrick Lamar
  10. Willie Nelson
  11. Babyface
  12. Mariah Carey
  13. Carole King
  14. Nile Rodgers
  15. Lucinda Williams
  16. Outkast
  17. Paul Simon
  18. Brian & Eddie Holland
  19. Missy Elliott
  20. Lionel Richie
  21. Young Thug
  22. Diane Warren
  23. Josh Osborne, Shane McNally, and Brandie Clark
  24. Stephen Merritt
  25. Romeo Santos
  26. Valerie Simpson
  27. The - Dream
  28. Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis
  29. Bruce Springsteen
  30. Smokey Robinson
LIst of 'honorable mentions'....

Click to expand...
Bad Bunny? I don't think so .
 
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PSU Mike

PSU Mike

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I honestly don’t know what distinguishes a songwriter from a composer (musically illiterate here) - is it about lyrics? Where would Giorgio Moroder fall? I thought Nile Rodgers was more of a producer, but when I saw him a few years back it was amazing to experience all the songs he touched.
 
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Midnighter

Midnighter

Heisman
Jan 22, 2021
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PSU Mike said:
I honestly don’t know what distinguishes a songwriter from a composer (musically illiterate here) - is it about lyrics? Where would Giorgio Moroder fall? I thought Nile Rodgers was more of a producer, but when I saw him a few years back it was amazing to experience all the songs he touched.
Click to expand...

Good question but I think this is very much lyrics focused. I mean, 'H to the Izzo, V to the Izzay' sort of speaks for itself right? ;)
 
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Bvillebaron

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Midnighter said:
I love these lists because of the debate and edification from this board. Listened to a podcast with interviews of Taylor Swift and a few others on this list and a notable name missing is Billy Joel. What does everyone think? Personally, Jay-Z doesn't cut it for me - Eminem way more clever and less reliant on production. No real immediate thoughts on anyone else, save Fiona Apple, Lana Del Rey, and especially Stephen Merritt are deserving. Dolly Parton and Stevie Wonder are absolute no brainers.

www.nytimes.com

The 30 Greatest Living American Songwriters

More than 250 music insiders and six New York Times critics weighed in on who defines the new American songbook. Here are the artists they chose.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

In no particular order...

  1. Stevie Wonder
  2. Dolly Parton
  3. Bob Dylan
  4. Taylor Swift
  5. Fiona Apple
  6. Lana Del Rey
  7. Jay-Z
  8. Bad Bunny
  9. Kendrick Lamar
  10. Willie Nelson
  11. Babyface
  12. Mariah Carey
  13. Carole King
  14. Nile Rodgers
  15. Lucinda Williams
  16. Outkast
  17. Paul Simon
  18. Brian & Eddie Holland
  19. Missy Elliott
  20. Lionel Richie
  21. Young Thug
  22. Diane Warren
  23. Josh Osborne, Shane McNally, and Brandie Clark
  24. Stephen Merritt
  25. Romeo Santos
  26. Valerie Simpson
  27. The - Dream
  28. Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis
  29. Bruce Springsteen
  30. Smokey Robinson
LIst of 'honorable mentions'....

Click to expand...
Did I miss something and did Paul McCartney and Barry Gibb die recently?
 
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manatree

manatree

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My understanding was that a songwriter composes both the words and music. However, looking at that list, the NYT must be using a different definition. Always remember, the main goal of any published top list is to create discussion/arguments.
 
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bbrown

bbrown

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Jul 26, 2001
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Midnighter said:
I love these lists because of the debate and edification from this board. Listened to a podcast with interviews of Taylor Swift and a few others on this list and a notable name missing is Billy Joel. What does everyone think? Personally, Jay-Z doesn't cut it for me - Eminem way more clever and less reliant on production. No real immediate thoughts on anyone else, save Fiona Apple, Lana Del Rey, and especially Stephen Merritt are deserving. Dolly Parton and Stevie Wonder are absolute no brainers.

www.nytimes.com

The 30 Greatest Living American Songwriters

More than 250 music insiders and six New York Times critics weighed in on who defines the new American songbook. Here are the artists they chose.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

In no particular order...

  1. Stevie Wonder
  2. Dolly Parton
  3. Bob Dylan
  4. Taylor Swift
  5. Fiona Apple
  6. Lana Del Rey
  7. Jay-Z
  8. Bad Bunny
  9. Kendrick Lamar
  10. Willie Nelson
  11. Babyface
  12. Mariah Carey
  13. Carole King
  14. Nile Rodgers
  15. Lucinda Williams
  16. Outkast
  17. Paul Simon
  18. Brian & Eddie Holland
  19. Missy Elliott
  20. Lionel Richie
  21. Young Thug
  22. Diane Warren
  23. Josh Osborne, Shane McNally, and Brandie Clark
  24. Stephen Merritt
  25. Romeo Santos
  26. Valerie Simpson
  27. The - Dream
  28. Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis
  29. Bruce Springsteen
  30. Smokey Robinson
LIst of 'honorable mentions'....

Click to expand...
looked at the list quick and yea I would question that. I mean I like Nile Rodgers but never really thought as him as a "songwriter" let alone the "greatest living" I wouldn't have Jay Z or Missy Elliot. Some of the others I never heard of.
Agree about Billy Joel.
Its tough to do in order but I would probably have my top 5 as...Carole King, Paul McCartney, Bob Dylan, Dolly Parton and Bruce (although I've never been a fan of his music.)
 
Connorpozlee

Connorpozlee

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I’d go Springsteen to win, Paul Westerberg to place. Maybe Don Henley to show? Donald Fagan? Paul Simon? Jeff Tweedy? Third is a tough call for me.
 
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Grant Green

Grant Green

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PSU Mike said:
I honestly don’t know what distinguishes a songwriter from a composer (musically illiterate here) - is it about lyrics? Where would Giorgio Moroder fall? I thought Nile Rodgers was more of a producer, but when I saw him a few years back it was amazing to experience all the songs he touched.
Click to expand...
There is overlap, but a songwriter is probably more lyrics, melody and a composer is probably more harmony (chord structure), and arrangement.
 
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KingLando

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razpsu said:
Heard about this. Not including Billy Joel is a non starter for this list to even be considered as legit.
Click to expand...
I'm not a huge music person but I agree--maybe they forgot he was living? Weird exclusion
 
Midnighter

Midnighter

Heisman
Jan 22, 2021
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razpsu said:
Heard about this. Not including Billy Joel is a non starter for this list to even be considered as legit.
Click to expand...

One person interviewed said he was too 'schmaltzy' but not in a bad way; just that some thought others were better at it (noting I do not see a 'schmaltzy' writer on this list better than Billy Joel...).
 
84lion

84lion

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razpsu said:
Heard about this. Not including Billy Joel is a non starter for this list to even be considered as legit.
Click to expand...
Midnighter said:
One person interviewed said he was too 'schmaltzy' but not in a bad way; just that some thought others were better at it (noting I do not see a 'schmaltzy' writer on this list better than Billy Joel...).
Click to expand...
"Schmaltzy?" Captain Jack and Miami 2017 are "schmaltzy?" Goodnight Saigon is schmaltzy?

His omission is especially surprising given the NYT critics weighing in on this - either they didn't have much pull, or commute from Jersey, hence the inclusion of Springsteen.

I'm sure Joel is laughing all the way to the bank.
 
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manatree

manatree

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Midnighter said:
One person interviewed said he was too 'schmaltzy' but not in a bad way; just that some thought others were better at it (noting I do not see a 'schmaltzy' writer on this list better than Billy Joel...).
Click to expand...

84lion said:
"Schmaltzy?" Captain Jack and Miami 2017 are "schmaltzy?" Goodnight Saigon is schmaltzy?

His omission is especially surprising given the NYT critics weighing in on this - either they didn't have much pull, or commute from Jersey, hence the inclusion of Springsteen.

I'm sure Joel is laughing all the way to the bank.
Click to expand...

Didn’t realize that being too Jewish impacted your ability to write songs.
 
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laKavosiey-st lion

laKavosiey-st lion

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Well, I ain't passed the bar, but I know a little bit
Enough that you won't illegally search my ****
"Well we'll see how smart you are when the K-9 come"
I got ninety nine problems but a ***** ain't one, hit me
 
Midnighter

Midnighter

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Someone on this list wrote:

My p*ssy tastes like Pepsi cola
My eyes are wide like cherry pies
I got sweet taste for men who are older
It's always been so, it's no surprise
 
razpsu

razpsu

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Neil diamond off the list as well. Wow. How many songs has he written, how many songs for others as well. Also could have several country stars like George strait? Etc.
 
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razpsu

razpsu

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By the way I know it says living but kinda a cop out to get so many current artist on this list. To many great artists not on this American list like Prince for example.
Midnighter we should do our own list.
 
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BobPSU92

BobPSU92

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How is Van Hagar not on the list?

I tell myself
Hey only fools rush in and only time will tell
If we stand the test of time

😞
 
Midnighter

Midnighter

Heisman
Jan 22, 2021
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razpsu said:
By the way I know it says living but kinda a cop out to get so many current artist on this list. To many great artists not on this American list like Prince for example.
Midnighter we should do our own list.
Click to expand...

Totally. If you’re going ‘all time’ living or dead there are a bunch that come to mind…
 
Midnighter

Midnighter

Heisman
Jan 22, 2021
12,084
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razpsu said:
Neil diamond off the list as well. Wow. How many songs has he written, how many songs for others as well. Also could have several country stars like George strait? Etc.
Click to expand...

Neil Diamond a big omission; lots of country stars don’t write their own songs. George Strait has written a few but Dean Dillon wrote the bulk of his hits.
 
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