Lebby: counterpoint

JackShephard

Senior
Sep 27, 2011
1,560
700
113
It's a good thing we have great coaches (supposedly), because we certainly don't have great talent.
 

DawgatAuburn

All-Conference
Apr 25, 2006
11,060
1,957
113
It took him three years, but he finally brought in some plus coaches to help him. This guy who analyze coach staff effectiveness ranked Mississippi 4th overall in terms of overall coaching staff. He has Arnett as one of the top DCs and new assistant Phillip Montgomery as one of the overall best coaches in the country.



View attachment 1282955
View attachment 1282962
Having an effective staff sounds great. But as long as Lebby has a headset he is responsible for things like:

1. Calling a play that led to the pick at Florida when we were in game winning field goal range.
2. Punting the ball to the most dangerous returner in the country when you have a 7 point lead and less than 3 minutes against Texas.
3. Allowing his QB to get obliterated by one of the best pass rushers in the country leading to a game changing sack, scoop and score against Tennessee.
4. Randomly going for it on 4th down at illogical times.
 

3407Dewey

Senior
Jun 4, 2014
334
449
63
I mean, I hope you're right. I agree that there are some coaches on staff who have a good track record. And significantly, Lebby convinced them to come here (I'm assuming they had other options). That's great. But I also understand why people are skeptical. Coaches don't just have to know stuff, they have to run a team. And last year, there were some clear deficits in that department coming from the head coach. Maybe he's learned some things since then. I hope so.
 

HotMop

All-American
May 8, 2006
7,947
6,325
113
Having an effective staff sounds great. But as long as Lebby has a headset he is responsible for things like:

1. Calling a play that led to the pick at Florida when we were in game winning field goal range.
2. Punting the ball to the most dangerous returner in the country when you have a 7 point lead and less than 3 minutes against Texas.
3. Allowing his QB to get obliterated by one of the best pass rushers in the country leading to a game changing sack, scoop and score against Tennessee.
4. Randomly going for it on 4th down at illogical times.
Yeah, but other than that it's going great.
 

JackShephard

Senior
Sep 27, 2011
1,560
700
113
Our talent level is much much better than most on this board think. For some reason those that are the most outspoken in negativity are the least informed
Not in the trenches, where it matters most. DL added some talent through the portal, but OL - I'll believe it when I see it.

I assume your comment was directed at me, but I'm not very vocal at all. Nor am I uninformed. Maybe we just have different opinions (and that's ok), and/or maybe I'm wrong (also ok). We'll find out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: patdog

patdog

Heisman
May 28, 2007
57,697
27,507
113
Our talent level is much much better than most on this board think. For some reason those that are the most outspoken in negativity are the least informed
How many 5* on our roster? How many 4*? How do those numbers compare with the rest of the SEC?
 
  • Sad
Reactions: RebChuck

johnson86-1

All-American
Aug 22, 2012
14,573
5,055
113
Not in the trenches, where it matters most. DL added some talent through the portal, but OL - I'll believe it when I see it.

I assume your comment was directed at me, but I'm not very vocal at all. Nor am I uninformed. Maybe we just have different opinions (and that's ok), and/or maybe I'm wrong (also ok). We'll find out.
That was my immediate thought. Hard to win without an average OL. Not as sure where we stand on the DL but I do think Arnett is a good coach to have if you don't have any DL that can command a double team. A lot easier to scheme up pressure on defense than it is to scheme up decent pass protection on offense.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JackShephard

johnson86-1

All-American
Aug 22, 2012
14,573
5,055
113
How many 5* on our roster? How many 4*? How do those numbers compare with the rest of the SEC?
Well, unfortunately I think the question is how does that compare with ULM, Minnesota, USCe, Missouri, Vanderbilt, Auburn, Tennessee Tech, and Ole Miss.

Like this year, we'll probably find out that we're not very good at predicting which teams will be good because of all the churn, but we are still at the point where we just need 8 winnable games and to pull of 6 or more of them.
 

TheBannerM

All-Conference
Nov 30, 2024
1,221
1,751
113
Having an effective staff sounds great. But as long as Lebby has a headset he is responsible for things like:

1. Calling a play that led to the pick at Florida when we were in game winning field goal range.
2. Punting the ball to the most dangerous returner in the country when you have a 7 point lead and less than 3 minutes against Texas.
3. Allowing his QB to get obliterated by one of the best pass rushers in the country leading to a game changing sack, scoop and score against Tennessee.
4. Randomly going for it on 4th down at illogical times.
I think Montgomery was brought in to help Lebby manage the flow of the game on offense.
 

TheBannerM

All-Conference
Nov 30, 2024
1,221
1,751
113
I know I'm uninformed, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say we don't have the 4th best coaching staff in Div. I football. Or even the SEC.
Probably not, but I think it clearly shows that Montgomery and Arnett are significant additions and can lead to more wins than the previous staff.
 
Last edited:

thekimmer

All-Conference
Aug 30, 2012
8,453
2,484
113
Only ONE out of 73 coaches in the SEC in the past 25 years has a HC been given a third season after starting 1-15 in conference play and that was at vandy. VANDY! How low our expectations have fallen. I fully expect Lebby to be unemployed before the egg bowl. Or at least should be based on how the season has gone.
 
Aug 22, 2012
348
321
63
Clock management. That alone cost us the TN and TX games. This obsession to play fast cost us, and you can throw the FL game in there too. We win two of those three, and certainly all three this program is on a totally different trajectory. But we’re gonna “do what we do” per Lebby. If there is no improvement here it’s time. I realize there were other factors mentioned earlier, but when you have a lead like we had in the two I mentioned you bleed the clock in the fourth and don’t snap the ball with 20 left on play clock. Just plain stupid.
 

ckDOG

All-American
Dec 11, 2007
10,084
5,996
113
Clock management. That alone cost us the TN and TX games. This obsession to play fast cost us, and you can throw the FL game in there too. We win two of those three, and certainly all three this program is on a totally different trajectory. But we’re gonna “do what we do” per Lebby. If there is no improvement here it’s time. I realize there were other factors mentioned earlier, but when you have a lead like we had in the two I mentioned you bleed the clock in the fourth and don’t snap the ball with 20 left on play clock. Just plain stupid.
I was boarding the Lebby train for a minute last season and then he beat himself with a stubborn commitment to go fast. At least twice. I hope he learns from it but a half decent coach doesn't need 2-3 boneheaded Ls to learn. We will be coach shopping by November. Of course, I hope I look like a dubmass this time next year he's changed our trajectory.
 
  • Like
Reactions: msstatelp1

ronpolk

All-Conference
May 6, 2009
9,215
4,871
113
Having an effective staff sounds great. But as long as Lebby has a headset he is responsible for things like:

1. Calling a play that led to the pick at Florida when we were in game winning field goal range.
2. Punting the ball to the most dangerous returner in the country when you have a 7 point lead and less than 3 minutes against Texas.
3. Allowing his QB to get obliterated by one of the best pass rushers in the country leading to a game changing sack, scoop and score against Tennessee.
4. Randomly going for it on 4th down at illogical times.
How could you leave out calling 15 QB runs up the middle in a row against Missouri.
 

Dawgzilla2

All-Conference
Oct 9, 2022
2,101
2,459
113
I may be alone in this opinion, but I am concerned about Arnett as DC. Yeah, he did a good job for us for three years. But Leach was helping him out a lot by running a ball control offense, the exact opposite of Lebby.

The only other data points we have pn Arnett was our defense taking a major step backwards when he became HC. And that he like the boconater.
 

Seinfeld

All-American
Nov 30, 2006
11,305
7,248
113
I may be alone in this opinion, but I am concerned about Arnett as DC. Yeah, he did a good job for us for three years. But Leach was helping him out a lot by running a ball control offense, the exact opposite of Lebby.

The only other data points we have pn Arnett was our defense taking a major step backwards when he became HC. And that he like the boconater.
There honestly isn’t a position on the field aside from CB that I’m not concerned about.

Do we have some players? Sure.

Are we more talented than last year? Probably so

Are we more talented or even as talented as the SEC teams that we’ll be facing?

Larry Shrug GIF by Curb Your Enthusiasm
 

Lucifer Morningstar

All-Conference
Aug 30, 2022
2,207
3,303
113
There honestly isn’t a position on the field aside from CB that I’m not concerned about.

Do we have some players? Sure.

Are we more talented than last year? Probably so

Are we more talented or even as talented as the SEC teams that we’ll be facing?

Larry Shrug GIF by Curb Your Enthusiasm
This is kind of where I am at, and I just sent off ticket money to watch it in live color. I keep hearing that we are going to be better up front, and we almost have to be, right? I just do not see the kids we brought in on the OL, plus what we brought back is very good. Better yes, but not very good. I hope I am wrong, and we make a major jump up front. It is really the only way we stand a chance to get to where we want to go this season. I will also say I think Lebby is going to be a good coach one day, but we just do not have the time or the resources to let him continue to learn on the job.
 

OG Goat Holder

Heisman
Sep 30, 2022
12,705
11,671
113
Oh we'll find some way for the defense to fumble us to 6-6 and he'll be here letting us know about it this fall. Then when we go 3-9 the next year he'll be a no-show and all this 'hope' from 6-6 will have wasted yet another year.

Even Croom had a peak year. Our only hope is that he bottoms out this season so we can all just move on from this disaster. But if we wait another year, Salmonz might be gone.
 

Bulldawg77

All-American
Dec 1, 2019
3,294
6,262
108
Did it just get that way since November, or was it there in '23 and '24 and there were other issues then?
The talent level in 24 was about the equivalent of a lower end g5 team. We had a few good to decent players but we also sustained some injuries that year. But no our talent level now is light years ahead of 24 and at some positions better than 23
 

thekimmer

All-Conference
Aug 30, 2012
8,453
2,484
113
I may be alone in this opinion, but I am concerned about Arnett as DC. Yeah, he did a good job for us for three years. But Leach was helping him out a lot by running a ball control offense, the exact opposite of Lebby.

The only other data points we have pn Arnett was our defense taking a major step backwards when he became HC. And that he like the boconater.
Arnett has got to be a huge upgrade from Hutzler. Hell, the women's volleyball coach would be an upgrade from Hutz.
 

patdog

Heisman
May 28, 2007
57,697
27,507
113
I may be alone in this opinion, but I am concerned about Arnett as DC. Yeah, he did a good job for us for three years. But Leach was helping him out a lot by running a ball control offense, the exact opposite of Lebby.

The only other data points we have pn Arnett was our defense taking a major step backwards when he became HC. And that he like the boconater.
You’re not alone.
 

Bulldawg77

All-American
Dec 1, 2019
3,294
6,262
108
How many 5* on our roster? How many 4*? How do those numbers compare with the rest of the SEC?
35 four stars on the team currently. Depending on the service Womack was a 5 star and Taylor was the highest rated 4 star.
 

TheBannerM

All-Conference
Nov 30, 2024
1,221
1,751
113
I may be alone in this opinion, but I am concerned about Arnett as DC. Yeah, he did a good job for us for three years. But Leach was helping him out a lot by running a ball control offense, the exact opposite of Lebby.

The only other data points we have pn Arnett was our defense taking a major step backwards when he became HC. And that he like the boconater.
Major step backwards? In 2023, Mississippi state finished 68th in scoring D and 41st in total D (compared that to last season - 106th in scoring D and 107th in total D). And that was with the most inept offense I've seen since Croom.
 

thekimmer

All-Conference
Aug 30, 2012
8,453
2,484
113
Our talent level is much much better than most on this board think. For some reason those that are the most outspoken in negativity are the least informed
With many examples documented in this thread, unless your talent is elite it doesn't help you much when you are losing games that are in largely in-hand because of boneheaded coaching decisions.
 

dickiedawg

All-Conference
Feb 22, 2008
4,344
1,153
113
Here’s to hoping Lebby learned from his many mistakes last year.
It seems like he learned from the hiring mistakes he made initially.

If it doesn’t work out and we wind up replacing him this year, I hope we never again hire an unproven first year guy to learn on the job. In football, the stakes are just too high.
 

TheBannerM

All-Conference
Nov 30, 2024
1,221
1,751
113
If it doesn’t work out and we wind up replacing him this year, I hope we never again hire an unproven first year guy to learn on the job. In football, the stakes are just too high.
I think we'll end up with a Charles Huff type - G6 head coach looking to move into the P4. I don't think we have the juice to hire a sitting P4 coach, and I hope we don't hire a washed up coach like Brian Kelly or Jimbo. Although I think Mike Gundy would be a good fit, his relationship with NIL is terrible. Maybe Selmon will shock us and actually open up the checkbook and persuade Dave Doeren to move to the SEC.

Here's who ChatGPT recommended (after I repeatedly told it not to give me coaches like Alex Golesh, Sumrall, etc. or assistants):

  • Jeff Traylor
  • G. J. Kinne
  • Charles Huff
  • Spencer Danielson
 
  • Like
Reactions: patdog