There's a lot of pressure, but I'd say if you have to make the life of your 8 or 9 year old kid revolve around travel sports just to keep the dream of high school sports alive, maybe it's just not meant to be? For our group of friends doing travel ball, I would say 8 out of 10 kids that did travel baseball and soccer at 8 years old are not going to get meaningful playing time on their high school team. One of them would get playing time regardless because they are a legit athlete, and one of the other handful that is a borderline athlete will get playing time in Jr. High because of all that practice at 8 and 9, and that will help determine who sticks around for high school and gets playing time. Just doesn't seem like a great investment when it means that they don't get much unstructured playtime and don't have time for other hobbies like learning to play an instrument or anything else that they might continue to do into high school and beyond.
Starkville Travel ball coach/umpire embarrassment
- Thread starter MStateU
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I help run a league in town and it’s our biggest speech each year is if you catch yourself in a heated argument with an umpire over a youth baseball game you are automatically in the wrong
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I did USSSA baseball for a few years, mostly tournaments in Brookhaven and McComb. At the time I had officiated MSPA football, basketball and softball, so I decided to give it a try. Plus, I needed the money bc the newspaper business was beginning to slide downhill fast.
My last game, the one in which I finally had enough, was in Brookhaven, 12u, one team from MS and one from BFE, La. A thunderstorm was threatening, like very close. La runner attempts to steal second, he's out by a step and I ring him up. The old 3B coach from La. comes sprinting at me, screaming at me, about the same time the storm arrived and play was going to be suspended. I threw up the stop sign, he kept coming at me, so I ejected him. After getting soaked on the way back to the umpire dressing area, I calmly removed my gear, walked over to the tournament director and quit right there. This was 8 years ago. I was fed up with the parents and coaches acting like every game was Game 7 of the world series and do or die.
My last game, the one in which I finally had enough, was in Brookhaven, 12u, one team from MS and one from BFE, La. A thunderstorm was threatening, like very close. La runner attempts to steal second, he's out by a step and I ring him up. The old 3B coach from La. comes sprinting at me, screaming at me, about the same time the storm arrived and play was going to be suspended. I threw up the stop sign, he kept coming at me, so I ejected him. After getting soaked on the way back to the umpire dressing area, I calmly removed my gear, walked over to the tournament director and quit right there. This was 8 years ago. I was fed up with the parents and coaches acting like every game was Game 7 of the world series and do or die.
I agree 100%. Fortunately all my kids are in the band, and my middle son only plays football where the club/7-on-7 stuff isn't as important.
I quit officiating HS football after 20 years because of this mess. It's probably not as bad as travel ball but I got completely sick of the constant crap from coaches and fans. It's been close to dangerous a few times. And it is rarely the consistently high performing teams, the West Points, the Starkvilles, the Picayunes that do it. They rarely have anything negative to say. It's the 1-10 coaches who think they are Vince Lombardi who make it miserable for everyone including their own players.
I umpired church league softball in Starkville when I was in college. Random week night game between two churches that will not be named caused me to never umpire again.
I was the plate umpire in a blowout game. There was a home run limit - I believe a team was permitted three home runs and one of the teams had hit that pretty quickly. They hit another one and the guy caught it at the wall and threw it over so it would be over the limit. I called four base error. The head official for the league was the field official and he agreed with me.
A church deacon pushed me. The field official called the game and banned the player. I got a call the next day that the deacon and pastor wanted to have lunch with me. I went. They weren't sorry - they just wanted me to put in a good word so he could play. 19-year old me was so uncomfortable I just excused myself and left.
I was the plate umpire in a blowout game. There was a home run limit - I believe a team was permitted three home runs and one of the teams had hit that pretty quickly. They hit another one and the guy caught it at the wall and threw it over so it would be over the limit. I called four base error. The head official for the league was the field official and he agreed with me.
A church deacon pushed me. The field official called the game and banned the player. I got a call the next day that the deacon and pastor wanted to have lunch with me. I went. They weren't sorry - they just wanted me to put in a good word so he could play. 19-year old me was so uncomfortable I just excused myself and left.
I’ve seen worse, a mom go berserk on a ref in a 7 year old upward basketball game. For those who don’t know, Upward is a Christian sports organization that is supposed to teach sportsmanship and win souls for Christ. The family is well known locally and the husband has been banned from coaching pee wee football several times (every year they’d let him coach again).
That’s a possible thread hijack discussion. I am absolutely shocked at the number of women, seemingly of all walks of life, who have decided it’s perfectly safe to very aggressively get in the face of a man who is not their husband and not family. We had moms yell at games when I was a kid, but I don’t remember any women acting like they were ready to fight. I’ve seen women screaming at men on numerous occasions in person, and of course the online videos of this are rampant. Just last month, I saw a lady road raging. She got out of her car and was screaming at a guy in a jacked up truck while walking toward him. WTF was she thinking was going to happen if that dude jumped out ready to roll?
I don’t know what happened culturally, but it isn’t good. There is no way I could be a referee when even the women are acting an a$$.
Burnout is real. Even when a kid has the talent to make a quality high school team, by the time they get there they can be so worn out from years of travel ball that they don’t even want to play anymore.
In a lot of cases, travel sports can take the fun out of the game and turn it into a job.
In a lot of cases, travel sports can take the fun out of the game and turn it into a job.
You should see the parents really wail at it during these games.
Ours have done this at very little cost for the past 6-7 years, now probably the last year. We’ve enjoyed it but I would suggest setting expectations, realistic ones, which I’ve had to rein in once or twice. Coaching is not the best but the best situation based location, etc. and the core of the team has played together for the whole time, the remainder for 4+ years. Parents get along. I don’t envy the Jackson area group tripping all over themselves with these organizations. We enjoy it and it comes out of the vacation budget line item 6-7 local tournaments a year. I’ve said it before on here, the travel situation in MS is just glorified park commission, maybe allstar team level from years past. Many of these kids won’t sniff PT on the high school squad.
This situation is just plain sad. I began reffing soccer in 2023 with my son. It is his way of making money and honestly it has become my outlet from all the chaos from my work. I love being back on the pitch and I will say I give it 110% including training mentally and physically. I ref every level from Rec U8 to high school and tournament ball. My son who just turned 18 has reffed every level also besides HS. Sadly, when we go to tournaments many times they will have him centering U14 and below and me U14 - U19. The easiest games to ref in my opinion are U 17-U19. Parents are chilled and if you can command the game early the players fall in line. The U10-U14 parents don't have a clue about the Laws of the Game but they are all experts. I can't lie, I was that dad too when my kids were playing. After I became a ref, I learned I didn't know shLt even though I played through JUCO 30 years ago.
Fortunately for soccer USSF implemented the referee abuse policy last year. As a ref, if I am catching any slack from spectators, I address it now with the coach (I learned the hard way not the interact with the parents, they are all certified FIFA refs). I will tell the coach to deal with if and if they refuse I will issue a YC. Next, I warn them if the situation isn't delt with within five minutes I am abandoning the match. Thus far I haven't had to abandon one yet.
I will say what parents don't realize about youth sport referees are many of them are essentially volunteering their time and in the south, they are doing it in extreme circumstances. In a large tournament it isn't uncommon for me to ref 6 games in a day and I have refed as many as 9 in a day and 15 within a weekend. When you are on the pitch or behind a plate for that amount of time you will make some mistakes and by the end of the day your judgement will get blurred at times (especially if your dehydrating). I have done it enough now that I know my body and I know when to let my assistant referees know to start helping me more as you can't physically get down the pitch as fast as with the early games. I seriously doubt any parents take this into account.
Fortunately for soccer USSF implemented the referee abuse policy last year. As a ref, if I am catching any slack from spectators, I address it now with the coach (I learned the hard way not the interact with the parents, they are all certified FIFA refs). I will tell the coach to deal with if and if they refuse I will issue a YC. Next, I warn them if the situation isn't delt with within five minutes I am abandoning the match. Thus far I haven't had to abandon one yet.
I will say what parents don't realize about youth sport referees are many of them are essentially volunteering their time and in the south, they are doing it in extreme circumstances. In a large tournament it isn't uncommon for me to ref 6 games in a day and I have refed as many as 9 in a day and 15 within a weekend. When you are on the pitch or behind a plate for that amount of time you will make some mistakes and by the end of the day your judgement will get blurred at times (especially if your dehydrating). I have done it enough now that I know my body and I know when to let my assistant referees know to start helping me more as you can't physically get down the pitch as fast as with the early games. I seriously doubt any parents take this into account.
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Honestly just let those two go at it. Beat the bloody **** out of each other. Would be more entertaining than watching 13 year olds play their 56th game of spring ball
Generally, people defend their own choices. But there are a lot of options. Here are some takes of mine that I've come up with over the years:
- The kids that are D1 capable at 18, you normally see this early in the process and you know. Of course they get snatched up by travel teams quickly these days and subsidized if needed.
- Playing more is good, assuming you can afford it. It certainly won't make you worse at your sport. Especially against good competition.
- Overuse injuries are real and prevalent.
So, you choose your path accordingly. The D1 kids stand out anywhere. For the second level, if a kid has the measurables and is strong enough, they can be a role players at a big school, or go to a smaller school and stand out and be fine. Both of those would generally go JUCO/D2/D3/NAIA and transfer up for college. I think this area is where most people think their kid is, and they just aren't. To me, you have to have measurables, or be really friggin' good and athletic at your sport to get to this level. And you have to work your asss off.
Only advice I give people is, no matter what path they choose, get their kids strength training early. As soon as they hit puberty, get them doing lifts. 8th grade or so when they're really growing, put on some weight. There's no magic pill to curing elbows in baseball players and knees in soccer players, but strength can go a long way. And it's a confidence builder for the skinny kids who do other things. And let's say you decide to quit baseball, but you're still a strong kid, I doubt anybody will think the less of you. Go do BJJ or something. Tennis, etc.
And the tournaments can be fun, I mean it's all about what you want to do on the weekends. Parents and their dollars have spoken.
But when you put money and unrealistic expectations into it, along with status......you get fights like this.
Can't remember the basketball star, but I posted something a few weeks ago where he basically said if your paying for your kid to play AAU basketball or travel sports expecting to get a college scholarship, you're wasting your money. Those kids are going to get recruited and play for free (or even get paid).
A guy I work with has a son who's a really good baseball player. They did the travel ball thing to the hilt - got him on some really good teams, spent their summer weekends driving all over the South, pulling a camper that the whole family would stay in, etc. And now it's paid off - he's a sr. in high school and has a scholarship to play ball at a good JUCO next year. But he had a lot of stories about parents who weren't realistic about their kid's talent/ability, or whose attitude skewed towards "I'm paying a lot of money for this, why isn't my kid getting more playing time?"
My mantra when my kids play sports is: why do we play sports? Because they're fun. If it stops being fun, it might be time to look for something else to do.
My mantra when my kids play sports is: why do we play sports? Because they're fun. If it stops being fun, it might be time to look for something else to do.
I'll go even further.....if you ever even have to ask or pursue a travel team at all......you aren't good enough, for the JUCO/small school level.
That said, if the kid/parent wants it, I don't see any harm is pursuing things assuming, again, they have some hope of future growth. i.e. they are tall, strong, and have the athletic base. If you just aren't above average and want to just work hard, sorry man it's not happening. So I don't know if it's wasting money, more like trading money.
Interesting. I'd never heard of this organization that started just a few hours away from me. At 3, we're about a year out from organized sports. I was thinking of rec ball or the Y. After looking into Miracle League my boy might be a ringer there. I'm not saying he's any good at baseball, he might be terrible; he's just a little rough and tumble with very little physical limitation.
Hell, just yesterday he got to meet his hero in person at the Augusta GreenJackets game and then promoted himself as head of security almost throwing hands with a 6 yr old. He didn't want anyone else near his idol.
And this was the second time meeting Cookie Monster in 3 innings!
I will say that's the worst place to be in this whole deal. I coached for a long time and it's those tweeners are can be decent players, do everything right, but just aren't good enough to really stand out......they are the ones who get stuck and fund the whole system for the rest. It seems like it would be a miserable existence again, if you aren't truly realistic about it, and most are not. My neighbor is that way, she still believes the tournament names are important and such (Jimmy played in SuPeR sLaM tHrEe this weekend!!!11), and will get home on Sunday afternoons, yell at her sons and make them hit for hours off a tee in the yard. I want to tell her to let them go play golf.
I’d imagine most people in this thread that are adamantly opposed to travel ball likely don’t have young kids and see the state of rec leagues, at least for baseball. We don’t do travel ball yet and I’m not really looking forward to it but the talent pool in rec baseball gets worse with each year. It’s unfortunate but if your kid wants to play in competitive leagues, travel ball is the only way.
If you as parents want to spend your time and money on travel ball that’s fine. It’s no different than me spending my time and money on golf or classic cars or motorcycles. I’d rather see a kid playing ball than playing video games. Idle minds are the devils playground.
If you’re in an area that hosts tournaments weekly and you can remove the travel from it and make it tournament ball, then you can do it for around the same as rec costs when you look at it from a cost per game standpoint. Of course you’ll need parent/volunteer coaches and a place to practice.
I coached rec for several years and completely understand what you’re talking about. You get a few good players with potential, a few who are there to have a good time who may or may not be any good, and the your bottom 1/3 who may not even be able to throw and catch a ball. My favorite part of coaching rec was seeing things start to click with that bottom 1/3 and them having fun with the game, but unfortunately due to the limited games and practices with rec, that always happened at the very end of the season and it was done.
I coached rec for several years and completely understand what you’re talking about. You get a few good players with potential, a few who are there to have a good time who may or may not be any good, and the your bottom 1/3 who may not even be able to throw and catch a ball. My favorite part of coaching rec was seeing things start to click with that bottom 1/3 and them having fun with the game, but unfortunately due to the limited games and practices with rec, that always happened at the very end of the season and it was done.
To all of those parents that 2nd guess themselves if they really need to spend all of their HELOC money on their marginally talented, undersized, feisty little kid, just remember- Michael Jordan got cut from the varsity HS basketball team. Your kid is really close. He just needs one more summer and it will all click.
That's awesome. There's a couple of kids who go yard every time they bat, and then there are kids like my son who just like being there. It's super laid back. Kids just show up on gameday and have fun. They keep score but amazingly the game always ends in a tie.
I'm all for inclusion so I would give rec league a shot, but I just wanted you to know about Miracle League.
That is definitely the problem. Rec leagues are awful.
Sadly, you are right, but it doesn't have to be that way. It's been mentioned several times in this thread, but the bulk of most of these "daddy ball" travel teams and Single A/Double A travel teams are made up of borderline kids that would be good but not great if all kids played rec ball like years past. Travel ball AND rec ball was ruined when PARENTS got their feelings hurt that little Johnny wasn't good enough to get picked for the Rec All Star or Select Team and said "we will just form our own team/organization". Then the money followed and now its a big business primarily funded by Moms and Dads who are having FOMO for little Johnny. The stigma grows and (idiot) parents talk, and now every kid/family thinks they need to play travel ball, thus depleting the Rec player pool.
I coach 8U rec ball while many of my sons friends and families we know are doing travel. I see the videos every weekend that mom (who knows nothing about baseball) and dad (who never played past Little League) post on Facebook of little Johnny's "home run", which was at best a double with 3 throwing errors. I'd venture to say that most (75%) of the travel ball I witness at my sons' age is literally on-par with the quality I see at our rec games. The main difference I have noticed is that in rec you still get players who don't want to be there, generally about 1 on every team. Other than that, I've not noticed that big of a gap in the talent. Before I get ripped, yes, I know there are some bonafide all-stars at 8U level, and they pretty much always play travel ball. Those are the kids that would have been all-stars/select teams in years past anyway. I'm not talking about them.
It's more of a social stigma or stereotype that has gotten pushed in recent years. Heck, a good friend of ours son played T-ball and quit at like 6 years old because he didn't like baseball and couldn't grasp any of the basic fundamentals. He played(plays) soccer and is pretty good at it. Fast forward, the kid is 11U now and started playing again this year out of shear peer pressure mainly from the parents' friends. And he got asked to "fill in" for a daddy-ball travel team last weekend. My 8U rec ball son is probably better than him.
Long story short: Parents and Money have ruined a once pure national past-time. We've made a vow to not push our son to travel ball unless 1) he gets recruited because he is good enough or 2) he decides that he loves baseball so much that's all that he wants to do. Thankfully, he's equally as interested in basketball, football, school, fishing and hunting so right now it's not looking like he wants to make the commitment to one thing.
It's a wonder how there were even enough youth baseball players to fill college/minor league rosters back in the pre-travel ball days**
I've replacement MSU sports with travel soccer. It saves me a lot of heartache and pain.
Expand on "good JUCO?"
At least in MS, JUCO's are practically free (if the kid doesn't misspell his name on the ACT). From a financial perspective, if the kid doesn't get a full ride to a 4 year school, then the entire travel ball era was for naught.
Obviously, everyone had a good time and had good some good life experiences, but only getting a JUCO scholly still puts a family in a hole financially speaking.
Just to reiterate: my son is NOT above Miracle League. I only worry if he's too bull-in-a-China-shop for others playing.
Thank you for bringing it to my attention. I've looked into it & we have one in our area.
I will also share this with my local Upside of Downs group of which we're a part.
I back the blue, but TBH most of your County Sheriff’s Deputies and City Police are some of the scuzziest people around. They just have a badge and an attitude.
i get the plus side of getting your kid reps and experience, but could not imagine spending that kind of time, money, and energy for so little actual value for you and your child.
Can't bring myself to blame the parents - if you're stupid you're stupid.
It's folks working the money grab. And that's all "travel" ball is.
Can't bring myself to blame the parents - if you're stupid you're stupid.
It's folks working the money grab. And that's all "travel" ball is.