PA House bill allowing PIAA to split public and private school playoffs.

El_Jefe

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There are close to 500 schools that sponsor wrestling in the PIAA. Only 30 to 35 of them are non-boundary schools- religious or charter. Only a couple of them are the schools you that have your panties in a wad. Not happening.
It's scapegoating, pure and simple. As if wrestling recruiting is limited to the Catholic schools. Never happened for example throughout D11 for decades, nope, not at all. Or across WPIAL, not a chance, definitely not at Canon Mac or Franklin Regional. Or at Southern Columbia.

I'm old enough to remember the era before McCort and FCA became prominent -- i.e., about 5 years ago. People whined about low-enrollment Boundary But Not Really schools like Reynolds poaching everybody from within a 45-min radius. Push aside the Catholic schools, and the complaining doesn't end, it just shifts to a new target.
 

dicemen99

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Push aside the Catholic schools, and the complaining doesn't end, it just shifts to a new target.
Agreed, 100%. Stuff has gone on for a century at public schools and continues to.

Good wrestlers/athletes want to go wrestle/compete with other good wrestlers/athletes no matter where they are. That’s why PSU is what it is. Why BECA had their run. Why Nazareth is always great. Why Southern Columbia football dominated. Why CB West football dominated the late 90s. Why Berwick, why Mt. Carmel, why Franklin Regional, etc, etc.

It’s not little league. This is what happens and it’s healthy for the sport. Dynasties never last (PSU wrestling aside, of course) and though people are loath to admit it, they are usually the result of a very good coach. That’s how they start in the first place attracting great athletes.

When we lost the kid I referenced before to the privates, our HC wished him well and said to me “this is a great opportunity for him, he has a chance to compete for a team that could be #1 in the country.” Then welcomed him back later with zero hard feelings. This is the attitude of a great coach and the reason our public school team was and remains ( he has retired) among the best in PA.

That’s a winning mindset. Complaining about this stuff isn’t.
 

El_Jefe

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I also think it makes the greatest wrestling state in the country much weaker if we start segregating wrestlers like Carter Starocci, Tyler Kasak, Nathan Desmond, Mike Labriola, Tom Bold, Darian Cruz, Bernie Brown, Bo Bassett, Melvin Miller, Kevin Darkus, etc. from the crown jewel of HS championships.
The best PA state finals match in 2025 doesn't happen if Forrest got excluded for attending a Catholic school. The only benefit would've been Seidel becoming a 4x champ -- which he probably could've done anyway by not cutting to 133.

2026 AA states would've been a lot less interesting with 10 of the 13 champs, another 2 finalists, 5 S3s, and 2 S4s excluded. And without the Bassett-Harer matchup, Flo would've had find some angle to promote the entire PIAA individual tournament weekend.

Speaking of promoting the sport: PIAA attendance has been shrinking the past few years. Excluding the Catholic schools helps reverse that trend how exactly?
 

Corby2

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PA is the best wrestling state so hopefully they don't change the individual tournament unless it goes to one class . Separating for duals whatever but don't ruin the individual tournament
 

Nitlion1986

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Archbishop Wood is a PIAA school. Their kids compete in your postseason, but they haven’t had any good enough in a while for you to get upset about. They used to compete in the national preps back in the last century along with a number of other Catholic schools in the Philly area.

No thank you. The other option you mention, sounds good in a message board post but has zero chance of being implemented. There are close to 500 schools that sponsor wrestling in the PIAA. Only 30 to 35 of them are non-boundary schools- religious or charter. Only a couple of them are the schools you that have your panties in a wad. Not happening.

It’s easy to throw stuff out there. Much harder to propose things that actually make sense and are workable.

I also think it makes the greatest wrestling state in the country much weaker if we start segregating wrestlers like Carter Starocci, Tyler Kasak, Nathan Desmond, Mike Labriola, Tom Bold, Darian Cruz, Bernie Brown, Bo Bassett, Melvin Miller, Kevin Darkus, etc. from the crown jewel of HS championships.
Tom Bold, there is a name i haven't thought of in a while.
 
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LB99

Heisman
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The best PA state finals match in 2025 doesn't happen if Forrest got excluded for attending a Catholic school. The only benefit would've been Seidel becoming a 4x champ -- which he probably could've done anyway by not cutting to 133.

2026 AA states would've been a lot less interesting with 10 of the 13 champs, another 2 finalists, 5 S3s, and 2 S4s excluded. And without the Bassett-Harer matchup, Flo would've had find some angle to promote the entire PIAA individual tournament weekend.

Speaking of promoting the sport: PIAA attendance has been shrinking the past few years. Excluding the Catholic schools helps reverse that trend how exactly?
So,, you’re good with PA private schools recruiting athletes from out of state?
 
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El_Jefe

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So,, you’re good with PA private schools recruiting athletes from out of state?
Like Saegertown and then Franklin Regional did when Devin Brown's mom stayed behind in Ohio?
 

LB99

Heisman
Oct 27, 2021
10,200
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Archbishop Wood is a PIAA school. Their kids compete in your postseason, but they haven’t had any good enough in a while for you to get upset about. They used to compete in the national preps back in the last century along with a number of other Catholic schools in the Philly area.

No thank you. The other option you mention, sounds good in a message board post but has zero chance of being implemented. There are close to 500 schools that sponsor wrestling in the PIAA. Only 30 to 35 of them are non-boundary schools- religious or charter. Only a couple of them are the schools you that have your panties in a wad. Not happening.

It’s easy to throw stuff out there. Much harder to propose things that actually make sense and are workable.

I also think it makes the greatest wrestling state in the country much weaker if we start segregating wrestlers like Carter Starocci, Tyler Kasak, Nathan Desmond, Mike Labriola, Tom Bold, Darian Cruz, Bernie Brown, Bo Bassett, Melvin Miller, Kevin Darkus, etc. from the crown jewel of HS championships.
Why are you stooping to being condescending? I did not take that approach with you. It’s a conversation.
 
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LB99

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Like Saegertown and then Franklin Regional did when Devin Brown's mom stayed behind in Ohio?
Ok. So, that’s an example. Fair point. It still doesn’t make it ok. Some of the privies do it routinely. SJP in football is the major offender. Why is that tolerated? Those kids sure aren’t going to SJP for the ambiance of the school’s location. They are there for football only.
 

Psalm 1 guy

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I would have no problem with the individual portion staying the same. I actually would be ok if they made the individual post season one classification instead of two. I do however agree that boundary and non boundary schools should be split for the team portion. The question would then become, what is considered non boundary? If a team has more than x amount of transfers does it then become non boundary? You see that a ton in football, so would they make a blanket policy or would it be specifically sports based?
Living in one classification California, I wouldn't mind PA joining the ranks of California, New Jersey (and Indiana, Kentucky and Rhode Island) as one classification wrestling states. I had mentioned before that in my home state of Oregon (population 4.27 million) they have five classifications. Talk about diluting the prestige of being a State champion! And before anyone asks, no, I was never a state champion in Oregon, but I can justify it because we were in the highest division : )
 

El_Jefe

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Ok. So, that’s an example. Fair point. It still doesn’t make it ok. Some of the privies do it routinely. SJP in football is the major offender. Why is that tolerated? Those kids sure aren’t going to SJP for the ambiance of the school’s location. They are there for football only.
No, they're going there to maximize their futures. So no, I don't have a problem with that.

The only real problem is if they ignore the academic side, which has become a lot less of an issue after Prop 48 passed decades ago. And frankly, in the case of those football players, a lot of them come from far worse schools, or more properly "schools," so the transfer helps them in that regard too.

There's the fan issue of putting their own feelings of self-worth, vicariously through high school athletes, ahead of the actual interests of those athletes. I'll put the athletes ahead of the fans every time.

I'm well aware of the downside for athletes. A HS friend of mine ended up in jail after he got recruited by a bigger HS (in order to get noticed by colleges), got busted by PIAA, and spiraled. (After getting out, he cleaned up his act and succeeded, so he's both a cautionary tale and a redemption story.) OTOH, for all of his bad decisions, and he made many of them, all of them came after he got busted by PIAA. The first cause leading to eventual imprisonment was PIAA busybodies putting some sense of "fairness" ahead of a HS kid trying to maximize his future.
 

El_Jefe

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Living in one classification California, I wouldn't mind PA joining the ranks of California, New Jersey (and Indiana, Kentucky and Rhode Island) as one classification wrestling states. I had mentioned before that in my home state of Oregon (population 4.27 million) they have five classifications. Talk about diluting the prestige of being a State champion! And before anyone asks, no, I was never a state champion in Oregon, but I can justify it because we were in the highest division : )
Competition-wise, agreed.

In reality, never happening. Those hotel rooms in Hershey aren't selling themselves that weekend.
 
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LB99

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No, they're going there to maximize their futures. So no, I don't have a problem with that.

The only real problem is if they ignore the academic side, which has become a lot less of an issue after Prop 48 passed decades ago. And frankly, in the case of those football players, a lot of them come from far worse schools, or more properly "schools," so the transfer helps them in that regard too.

There's the fan issue of putting their own feelings of self-worth, vicariously through high school athletes, ahead of the actual interests of those athletes. I'll put the athletes ahead of the fans every time.

I'm well aware of the downside for athletes. A HS friend of mine ended up in jail after he got recruited by a bigger HS (in order to get noticed by colleges), got busted by PIAA, and spiraled. (After getting out, he cleaned up his act and succeeded, so he's both a cautionary tale and a redemption story.) OTOH, for all of his bad decisions, and he made many of them, all of them came after he got busted by PIAA. The first cause leading to eventual imprisonment was PIAA busybodies putting some sense of "fairness" ahead of a HS kid trying to maximize his future.
Ok. That’s fair. I get that. But that doesn’t have anything to do with them competing against public schools. Wouldn’t those athletes want to “better themselves” against higher level competition? Not the neighboring high schools that your school just skimmed all the top talent from? Shouldn’t the athletes, coaches, and ADs be advocating for the best competition possible? In the case of wrestling, perhaps that means going to Prep Nationals instead? In the case of SJP football, perhaps that means advocating for a classifications that only includes the other top privates in the state like LaSalle, PCC, Cathedral Prep, McDevitt, etc.? Or , as someone else pointed out, they could join the private league in NJ that includes Don Bosco, etc. But they don’t do that. They are perfectly happy beating up on the District One teams in the playoffs, running up the score, and acting like they really accomplished something. The only real stiff test (sometimes) is when they get to the final game. I was very happy to see LaSalle knock them off their perch last year just to see someone else get a shot even though LaSalle is a private school also. If they (and other privates) want to recruit, fine, have at it, but they should be competing against other schools that recruit too. Just my opinion, you may not agree, and that is ok.
 

Fatwoodchuck

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Oct 19, 2023
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Ok. That’s fair. I get that. But that doesn’t have anything to do with them competing against public schools. Wouldn’t those athletes want to “better themselves” against higher level competition? Not the neighboring high schools that your school just skimmed all the top talent from? Shouldn’t the athletes, coaches, and ADs be advocating for the best competition possible? In the case of wrestling, perhaps that means going to Prep Nationals instead? In the case of SJP football, perhaps that means advocating for a classifications that only includes the other top privates in the state like LaSalle, PCC, Cathedral Prep, McDevitt, etc.? Or , as someone else pointed out, they could join the private league in NJ that includes Don Bosco, etc. But they don’t do that. They are perfectly happy beating up on the District One teams in the playoffs, running up the score, and acting like they really accomplished something. The only real stiff test (sometimes) is when they get to the final game. I was very happy to see LaSalle knock them off their perch last year just to see someone else get a shot even though LaSalle is a private school also. If they (and other privates) want to recruit, fine, have at it, but they should be competing against other schools that recruit too. Just my opinion, you may not agree, and that is ok.
This is why it needs to be done. It is ridiculous that they beat their chests to thumping a single A and AA schools. Get the **** outta here.
 

CTStall

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3 Classes for Team Duals. Private ,Small School, and Big School
PIAA gets another money maker.
2 Classes for individual tournament. All private school kids compete with Big Schools
PIAA readjust the brackets for parity of number of schools. A couple of smaller big schools will slide back to small school desination .
 

LB99

Heisman
Oct 27, 2021
10,200
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Well, SJP isn’t beating up on A and AA schools as they are playing 6A competition, but I get your point. Bishop Guilfoyle would probably be the equivalent in your argument.
This is why it needs to be done. It is ridiculous that they beat their chests to thumping a single A and AA schools. Get the **** outta here.
 

El_Jefe

Heisman
Oct 11, 2021
3,512
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Ok. That’s fair. I get that. But that doesn’t have anything to do with them competing against public schools. Wouldn’t those athletes want to “better themselves” against higher level competition? Not the neighboring high schools that your school just skimmed all the top talent from? Shouldn’t the athletes, coaches, and ADs be advocating for the best competition possible? In the case of wrestling, perhaps that means going to Prep Nationals instead? In the case of SJP football, perhaps that means advocating for a classifications that only includes the other top privates in the state like LaSalle, PCC, Cathedral Prep, McDevitt, etc.? Or , as someone else pointed out, they could join the private league in NJ that includes Don Bosco, etc. But they don’t do that. They are perfectly happy beating up on the District One teams in the playoffs, running up the score, and acting like they really accomplished something. The only real stiff test (sometimes) is when they get to the final game. I was very happy to see LaSalle knock them off their perch last year just to see someone else get a shot even though LaSalle is a private school also. If they (and other privates) want to recruit, fine, have at it, but they should be competing against other schools that recruit too. Just my opinion, you may not agree, and that is ok.
Why would a New Jersey league accept a PA school?

And let's not fantasize about St Joe's Prep beating a bunch of ragtag coal miner kids and farmer kids pulled away from their full-time jobs once a week on Friday nights. PA 6A football is the biggest schools in the state, with the biggest budgets, best coaches, and best facilities, and they also recruit but without the notoriety. This includes the poor woe-is-me District 1 teams St. Joe's Prep faces in the early rounds of the playoffs.

Everybody recruits. Some get noticed. The losers whine about the winners doing the same thing they do. That's never changing, may as well get upset at gravity too.
 

LB99

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Why would a New Jersey league accept a PA school?

And let's not fantasize about St Joe's Prep beating a bunch of ragtag coal miner kids and farmer kids pulled away from their full-time jobs once a week on Friday nights. PA 6A football is the biggest schools in the state, with the biggest budgets, best coaches, and best facilities, and they also recruit but without the notoriety. This includes the poor woe-is-me District 1 teams St. Joe's Prep faces in the early rounds of the playoffs.

Everybody recruits. Some get noticed. The losers whine about the winners doing the same thing they do.
Now you’re putting words in my mouth and want to be obnoxious. I was trying to be civil but you apparently can’t do that.
 

BigFella235

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Aug 13, 2021
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I know from the D10 side of things, people get fed up with schools like Kennedy Catholic that whoop up on 1A schools in basketball yearly. This because their roster has kids from all over the place. A few years ago they had a kid transfer there from VA and said kid now plays for the Jazz. For context, their football team has to play some 7-on-7 adjacent style of football against teams from OH because they could barely put 12 kids on the roster.

As for wrestling, IIRC Devin Brown moved from Painesville, OH to Saegertown specifically to train with Spencer. He was something like S3 in OH as a freshman. I was told he lived with some relative in non-ideal conditions when he was in Saegertown for that year. When Spencer’s dad was reportedly hired by Carnegie, Brown followed rather than stay around.

As mentioned, non-boundary public schools are also hiding in plain sight. Reynolds (deservedly) gets a lot of flak for pulling in kids as several are from neighboring communities. Another one I’ve noticed engaging in that recently is Saint Mary’s. They’ve got a few kids who pay tuition to attend despite being a public school. Off the top of my head, one of their best JH kids last year lives in Kane and another lives in Johnsonburg.

One thing I’m curious about is why these Philly area private/charter schools don’t have dominant sports programs outside of football? One of them just got a huge donation for athletics and Philly is usually a hotbed of talented kids, but only FCA is thriving right now. The last superstar kid I can recall coming out of St. Joe’s Prep is Kolby Franklin and he was from Dubois originally.
 
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LB99

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I know from the D10 side of things, people get fed up with schools like Kennedy Catholic that whoop up on 1A schools in basketball yearly. This because their roster has kids from all over the place. A few years ago they had a kid transfer there from VA and said kid now plays for the Jazz. For context, their football team has to play some 7-on-7 adjacent style of football against teams from OH because they could barely put 12 kids on the roster.

As for wrestling, IIRC Devin Brown moved from Painesville, OH to Saegertown specifically to train with Spencer. He was something like S3 in OH as a freshman. I was told he lived with some relative in non-ideal conditions when he was in Saegertown for that year. When Spencer’s dad was reportedly hired by Carnegie, Brown followed rather than stay around.

As mentioned, non-boundary public schools are also hiding in plain sight. Reynolds (deservedly) gets a lot of flak for pulling in kids as several are from neighboring communities. Another one I’ve noticed engaging in that recently is Saint Mary’s. They’ve got a few kids who pay tuition to attend despite being a public school. Off the top of my head, one of their best JH kids last year lives in Kane and another lives in Johnsonburg.

One thing I’m curious about is why these Philly area private/charter schools don’t have dominant sports programs outside of football? One of them just got a huge donation for athletics and Philly is usually a hotbed of talented kids, but only FCA is thriving right now. The last superstar kid I can recall coming out of St. Joe’s Prep is Kolby Franklin and he was from Dubois originally.
SJP puts all their emphasis on football. To a lesser degree, lacrosse. Their wrestling team is not good.
 
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LB99

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I know from the D10 side of things, people get fed up with schools like Kennedy Catholic that whoop up on 1A schools in basketball yearly. This because their roster has kids from all over the place. A few years ago they had a kid transfer there from VA and said kid now plays for the Jazz. For context, their football team has to play some 7-on-7 adjacent style of football against teams from OH because they could barely put 12 kids on the roster.

As for wrestling, IIRC Devin Brown moved from Painesville, OH to Saegertown specifically to train with Spencer. He was something like S3 in OH as a freshman. I was told he lived with some relative in non-ideal conditions when he was in Saegertown for that year. When Spencer’s dad was reportedly hired by Carnegie, Brown followed rather than stay around.

As mentioned, non-boundary public schools are also hiding in plain sight. Reynolds (deservedly) gets a lot of flak for pulling in kids as several are from neighboring communities. Another one I’ve noticed engaging in that recently is Saint Mary’s. They’ve got a few kids who pay tuition to attend despite being a public school. Off the top of my head, one of their best JH kids last year lives in Kane and another lives in Johnsonburg.

One thing I’m curious about is why these Philly area private/charter schools don’t have dominant sports programs outside of football? One of them just got a huge donation for athletics and Philly is usually a hotbed of talented kids, but only FCA is thriving right now. The last superstar kid I can recall coming out of St. Joe’s Prep is Kolby Franklin and he was from Dubois originally.
Yes, Kennedy and Serra Catholic were the two big offenders back in the 90’s for the lower classifications in basketball.
 

dicemen99

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So,, you’re good with PA private schools recruiting athletes from out of state?
Jax Forrest moved here from NC in 7th grade. Not that you’ll know the name - but he ended up being a D1 wrestler - Dillon Sheehy moved into our public school district in 8th grade from Minnesota and competed in four PIAA postseasons. Great family and kid and was a great addition to our sister school’s program (CR North).

What exactly is the difference here? Are we supposed to legislate one of those out of the postseason pool because he chose a catholic school over a public? BTW, McCort WAS punished by the PIAA when they found evidence of recruiting - not for Jax - and the punishment was significant. The system actually worked in that case. There are plenty of things to complain about in the PIAA, but this isn’t one of them

Yes, you’re entitled to your take, just like I’m entitled to regard it as narrow in scope, lacking context, and recency-biased. I guess that is why it comes off as condescending.

The proposal separates non-boundary and boundary schools for the team dual championships. Good move - the teams are not on equal footing in assembling teams that compete against each other head-to-head. Recognition of different enrollment levels is also a good thing here. Obviously teams with 5x the pool to pick from as others are not on equal footing. The teams are then crowned the team champions for the level they reside in. That’s a good thing.

Wrestling is fairly unique in that it also has an individual tournament component. A kid who attends a small school has the ability to compete against a kid who attends a big school or a private school- even far more currently than 50 years ago because of the club system and the offseason opportunities available to all. Individually separation doesn’t “level” the field, it just creates more champs and medals.
 
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El_Jefe

Heisman
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I know from the D10 side of things, people get fed up with schools like Kennedy Catholic that whoop up on 1A schools in basketball yearly. This because their roster has kids from all over the place. A few years ago they had a kid transfer there from VA and said kid now plays for the Jazz. For context, their football team has to play some 7-on-7 adjacent style of football against teams from OH because they could barely put 12 kids on the roster.

As for wrestling, IIRC Devin Brown moved from Painesville, OH to Saegertown specifically to train with Spencer. He was something like S3 in OH as a freshman. I was told he lived with some relative in non-ideal conditions when he was in Saegertown for that year. When Spencer’s dad was reportedly hired by Carnegie, Brown followed rather than stay around.

As mentioned, non-boundary public schools are also hiding in plain sight. Reynolds (deservedly) gets a lot of flak for pulling in kids as several are from neighboring communities. Another one I’ve noticed engaging in that recently is Saint Mary’s. They’ve got a few kids who pay tuition to attend despite being a public school. Off the top of my head, one of their best JH kids last year lives in Kane and another lives in Johnsonburg.

One thing I’m curious about is why these Philly area private/charter schools don’t have dominant sports programs outside of football? One of them just got a huge donation for athletics and Philly is usually a hotbed of talented kids, but only FCA is thriving right now. The last superstar kid I can recall coming out of St. Joe’s Prep is Kolby Franklin and he was from Dubois originally.
Brown and his uncle lived together in Saegertown. When Larry Lee got the job at Carnegie-Mellon that enabled Spencer to train at Franklin Regional, Brown's uncle started seeing a heart specialist in Pittsburgh and had to move for health reasons. Believe that at your own peril.

Kolby Franklin did not attend St. Joe's Prep in Philly. He attended St. Joe's Academy in Boalsburg, which had a competitive AA team for about 1-2 years. They recruited from a pretty wide net -- got Franklin from Dubois to the west and state champ Tyler Stoltzfus from Mifflinburg to the east.
 
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El_Jefe

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Now you’re putting words in my mouth and want to be obnoxious. I was trying to be civil but you apparently can’t do that.
Don't take it personally. I have a relative who until about 2 yrs ago worked as a publicist for the Radnor School District. If he had said anything about St. Joe's Prep being unfair to Radnor, I would've roasted him mercilessly.

I live in another wealthy D1 school district -- Strath Haven -- and we've had our share of Chester kids attend if they're tall and fast enough. But we're only 5A, must not recruit Chester aggressively enough.
 
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BigFella235

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Brown and his uncle lived together in Saegertown. When Larry Lee got the job at Carnegie-Mellon that enabled Spencer to train at Franklin Regional, Brown's uncle started seeing a heart specialist in Pittsburgh and had to move for health reasons. Believe that at your own peril.

Kolby Franklin did not attend St. Joe's Prep in Philly. He attended St. Joe's Academy in Boalsburg, which had a competitive AA team for about 1-2 years. They recruited from a pretty wide net -- got Franklin from Dubois to the west and state champ Tyler Stoltzfus from Mifflinburg to the east.
As I recall the writing was pretty much on the wall once the news dropped that Spencer was leaving, Devin would too. Jim Mulligan is a helluva coach and that Saegertown team was loaded back then, but even he wasn’t enough to stay around.

What ever happened to Franklin anyhow? He went to Iowa and just didn’t pan out for some reason.
 
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Colt2169

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Nobody did it like the late George Curry @ Berwick. Was told that there were some local employers that would hire a prospect's parent so they could move there and I remember reading how he once managed to assemble an OL where, tackle to tackle, all five lineman were in the 400 bench club-and how there were D1 colleges that couldn't make that claim.
Just look at the hat he always wore
 
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Here’s my thoughts as I have good friends who coach wrestling, football and basketball in rural western PA. I actually think wrestling could be cut & dry. Just break up the dual tournament to public and private and keep the individual tournament the same. The best kids still want to face the best regardless of public/private. Basketball is probably where this is the most needed. Many of these public/charters don’t even field a football team and go all in on hoops and there is a clear separation there. Single A wpial this year was all privates in hoops as small public schools ran away from them. There are also enough competitive private schools to make a league. Football on the other hand, especially in western PA would get weird. We have one big power out here in PCC the rest are small and only get the occasional disparaging comment from small public school coaches. The wpial private school league would look something like PCC, Seton Lasalle, Bishop Canivan, north catholic. The disparity would be so great you may see all these teams fold before playing PCC
 

Junglekat

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Living in one classification California, I wouldn't mind PA joining the ranks of California, New Jersey (and Indiana, Kentucky and Rhode Island) as one classification wrestling states. I had mentioned before that in my home state of Oregon (population 4.27 million) they have five classifications. Talk about diluting the prestige of being a State champion! And before anyone asks, no, I was never a state champion in Oregon, but I can justify it because we were in the highest division : )
I don't have a problem with having AA and AAA individual tournaments. I also wouldn't be opposed to moving to one classification for individuals. I see both sides of those who want both. The problem is, I don't think there is a strong enough argument to move to one classification. To be fair though, there isn't a strong enough argument to keep two classes except "thats the way its always been." Unfortunately, regardless of what is best for the athletes, or the sport overall, the final decision will probably come down to how much money the PIAA will make/lose.
I'm curious about Canon Mac's two time state wrestling champions, Angelo Marino and George O'Korn along with three time state wrestling champion Manny Pihakis. From where did they transfer in?
That was a bit before my time so I'm honestly not familiar with them. I won't say they did or didn't live in the district. Canon Mac has for sure produced a number of really good wrestlers from their jr program through graduation.
 
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Dogwelder

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Living in one classification California, I wouldn't mind PA joining the ranks of California, New Jersey (and Indiana, Kentucky and Rhode Island) as one classification wrestling states. ..
My favorite arrangement would be to have one big tournament for everyone as in California, but let multiple teams declare themselves to be state champions based on finish order among their cohort in the big tournament.

So there can be an overall state champion, a private school state champion, a public school state champion, a large school state champion, a medium school state champion, and a small school state champion, etc.

For me, personally, that is a good solution, and it has only one problem, which is that the number of wrestlers in a bracket might have to get pretty large. But the actual number of rounds would not get crazy large, due to the power of exponents.
 
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El_Jefe

Heisman
Oct 11, 2021
3,512
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I think Spencer started out at Saegertown!
Spencer was a youth wrestler at Saegertown and moved to Franklin Regional before 9th grade.

Not sure if he started at Saegertown. Family moved there from Denver when Allegheny College hired his father.
 
May 5, 2023
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I don't have a problem with having AA and AAA individual tournaments. I also wouldn't be opposed to moving to one classification for individuals. I see both sides of those who want both. The problem is, I don't think there is a strong enough argument to move to one classification. To be fair though, there isn't a strong enough argument to keep two classes except "thats the way its always been." Unfortunately, regardless of what is best for the athletes, or the sport overall, the final decision will probably come down to how much money the PIAA will make/lose.

That was a bit before my time so I'm honestly not familiar with them. I won't say they did or didn't live in the district. Canon Mac has for sure produced a number of really good wrestlers from their jr program through graduation.
Ran around with Mike Marino, Angelo was a couple years younger than Mike. If I remember correctly they're Canonsburg born and raised. Talking about 60 yrs.ago.
 
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BigFella235

Senior
Aug 13, 2021
184
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Not quite sure how I feel about the decision. It’s not going to change too many of the team champs. Traditional powers like Reynolds (A), McCort (AA), and BECAHI (AAA) will still be at or near the top of the heap each year. District team championships may have slightly more parody, but even then it’ll still be the same few teams going each year. It also wouldn’t be shocking if only team champs move on from the district championships to account for the extra time it’ll take to crown a winner in three classifications.
 

Sullivan

All-Conference
Oct 12, 2021
1,860
2,447
113
Not quite sure how I feel about the decision. It’s not going to change too many of the team champs. Traditional powers like Reynolds (A), McCort (AA), and BECAHI (AAA) will still be at or near the top of the heap each year. District team championships may have slightly more parody, but even then it’ll still be the same few teams going each year. It also wouldn’t be shocking if only team champs move on from the district championships to account for the extra time it’ll take to crown a winner in three classifications.

I guess it depends upon whether they go with A, AA, & AAA. Or if they go AA, AAA, and non-boundary.
 
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BigFella235

Senior
Aug 13, 2021
184
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I guess it depends upon whether they go with A, AA, & AAA. Or if they go AA, AAA, and non-boundary.
If they went AA, AAA, non-boundary things would get really interesting. You’d have parochial schools lumped in with some public non-boundary schools like Reynolds