Is Big East Best for SHU into the future?

PhishingPirate088 · Friday at 2:36 PM

PirateBlue08 said:
I agree we have to stay in the BE but this is strange logic. We are not able to compete in the A10 so we have to stay in the Big East since we are barely a D1 program. LOL.

It’s like saying someone who play in the NBA at a lower level needs to stay in the NBA because he can’t compete in the G League. Huh?!

You can’t read either

I said out athletics department

ie: every other sport we compete in on the average is extremely low level D1 AND we don’t offer like any sports

We are a DREADFUL athletics department

So the idea we “drop down” and compete in the A10 without BE resources we would fall off a cliff

PirateBlue08 · Friday at 4:15 PM

PhishingPirate088 said:
You can’t read either

I said out athletics department

ie: every other sport we compete in on the average is extremely low level D1 AND we don’t offer like any sports

We are a DREADFUL athletics department

So the idea we “drop down” and compete in the A10 without BE resources we would fall off a cliff

It’s not about reading it’s about your point making no sense. If we can currently compete in the BigEast we can currently compete in any league below the BigEast. Obviously.

But the real point is if we drop down we will no longer be getting BigEast funding and then we will no longer be able to perform on our current level in anything.

PhishingPirate088 · Friday at 4:19 PM

PirateBlue08 said:
It’s not about reading it’s about your point making no sense. If we can currently compete in the BigEast we can currently compete in any league below the BigEast. Obviously.

But the real point is if we drop down we will no longer be getting BigEast funding and then we will no longer be able to perform on our current level in anything.

I am NOT talking about basketball..try again

PirateBlue08 · Friday at 4:26 PM

PhishingPirate088 said:
I am NOT talking about basketball..try again

Neither am I. What is hard about this

PhishingPirate088 · Friday at 4:30 PM

PirateBlue08 said:
Neither am I. What is hard about this

lol ok

The point is we have an average basketball team in a mid major conference that has above average revenue generation

Because of that we do anything we can do to stay afloat in other sports with that $$ amount..and we do a pretty TERRIBLE job at that within a pretty subpar conference overall (without basketball included)

If we wanted to “drop levels” that revenue is bye-bye and our already barely competitive athletics department would get worse

Therefore we would never fit in the A-10 with A-10 revenues because we can’t even really compete now with big east revenue

So if we drop a level it would be MAAC or nec or American east or imo maybe not even D1

Left Coast Pirates · Friday at 4:46 PM

What I can’t figure out is why people who think we should step down to the A10 or MAAC think you would transition apples to apples.

Our BE revenue share would be gone.
We would make even less on ticket sales / season tickets because the demand would go down when the teams in the building aren’t at the level of Nova, SJU, UCONN.
Or the revenue will go down because you’re playing at Walsh, which means you couldn’t appease all the fans we do have left.
You can’t pay the coach what we currently pay him annually to be in a lesser league.
With all the revenue being reduced, the quality of players you could attract drops down to that level.
You absolutely become a feeder school on an annual basis.
Now you’re in a conference fighting for 1-2 spots in the tournament if you’re lucky.

lloyde dobler · Friday at 5:20 PM

And once again, people need to stop thinking that SHU is the only school affected by what’s going on. It is hardly alone. Massive changes are coming everywhere. Just a matter of how and when.

PirateBlue08 · Friday at 5:23 PM

PhishingPirate088 said:
lol ok

The point is we have an average basketball team in a mid major conference that has above average revenue generation

Because of that we do anything we can do to stay afloat in other sports with that $$ amount..and we do a pretty TERRIBLE job at that within a pretty subpar conference overall (without basketball included)

If we wanted to “drop levels” that revenue is bye-bye and our already barely competitive athletics department would get worse

Therefore we would never fit in the A-10 with A-10 revenues because we can’t even really compete now with big east revenue

So if we drop a level it would be MAAC or nec or American east or imo maybe not even D1

So we agree then. Sounded like you were saying our current teams are barely D1 which is bullish*t

PhishingPirate088 · Friday at 5:27 PM

PirateBlue08 said:
So we agree then. Sounded like you were saying our current teams are barely D1 which is bullish*t

I guess maybe extreme, you’re right, our athletics department is VERY VERY low D1

Without the BE we would be barely D1

HALL85 · Friday at 5:51 PM

We have to stay in the Big East until whatever happens to the league happens. The question is do you make the investment to compete at the top of the league or if you don’t, be prepared for more challenging time to breakthrough and make the dance. As Lloyd says, we are not alone but you don’t drop down.

TommyD82 · Friday at 6:15 PM

PirateBlue08 said:
Has any other program willingly stepped down to a much lower league in recent times?

What a loser business plan.

Only for football. But i may be wrong.

SHUSource · Saturday at 9:47 AM

Left Coast Pirates said:
What I can’t figure out is why people who think we should step down to the A10 or MAAC think you would transition apples to apples.

Our BE revenue share would be gone.
We would make even less on ticket sales / season tickets because the demand would go down when the teams in the building aren’t at the level of Nova, SJU, UCONN.

Or the revenue will go down because you’re playing at Walsh, which means you couldn’t appease all the fans we do have left.

You can’t pay the coach what we currently pay him annually to be in a lesser league.

With all the revenue being reduced, the quality of players you could attract drops down to that level.

You absolutely become a feeder school on an annual basis.

Now you’re in a conference fighting for 1-2 spots in the tournament if you’re lucky.

One bid, really, because with Walsh as our only venue, we would not be welcome in the Atlantic-10. So you’re taking the MAAC, and even then, Walsh barely cuts it. But that would be our place. It’s preposterous to think this would make things better.

sobo1 · Saturday at 10:07 AM

That's enough internet for the day.

ivyhillpark63 · Saturday at 10:12 AM

100% blame schools especially the so called power conference teams who ***** about nil yet are the first to bid up players with insane amounts of money..
With no demand there is no supply

MooneyHall07 · Saturday at 10:32 AM

Left Coast Pirates said:
What I can’t figure out is why people who think we should step down to the A10 or MAAC think you would transition apples to apples.

Our BE revenue share would be gone.
We would make even less on ticket sales / season tickets because the demand would go down when the teams in the building aren’t at the level of Nova, SJU, UCONN.

Or the revenue will go down because you’re playing at Walsh, which means you couldn’t appease all the fans we do have left.

You can’t pay the coach what we currently pay him annually to be in a lesser league.

With all the revenue being reduced, the quality of players you could attract drops down to that level.

You absolutely become a feeder school on an annual basis.

Now you’re in a conference fighting for 1-2 spots in the tournament if you’re lucky.

I would add that the value of season tickets goes down since your NCAA hopes basically comes down to one weekend in Atlantic City or somewhere else.

BrklynGrad · Saturday at 10:42 AM

To what extent has the growth and developement of the university been a result of our BE affiliation and the natural publicity it affords? I think of the Hall five to ten years before the conference: 800 students per class; two dorms--- the old one and the new one; two or three games per year at MSG as parts of double-headers that drew about 4,000; nine of ten kids from Jersey. Could the university sustain itself as it is presently constructed without it Big East membership?

Blue Bloods · Saturday at 10:49 AM

SHUSource said:
One bid, really, because with Walsh as our only venue, we would not be welcome in the Atlantic-10. So you’re taking the MAAC, and even then, Walsh barely cuts it. But that would be our place. It’s preposterous to think this would make things better.

Walsh Gymnasium is an embarrassment. Even the original Yankee Stadium was torn down.

NIL BAD · Saturday at 10:53 AM

Left Coast Pirates said:
What I can’t figure out is why people who think we should step down to the A10 or MAAC think you would transition apples to apples.

Our BE revenue share would be gone.
We would make even less on ticket sales / season tickets because the demand would go down when the teams in the building aren’t at the level of Nova, SJU, UCONN.

Or the revenue will go down because you’re playing at Walsh, which means you couldn’t appease all the fans we do have left.

You can’t pay the coach what we currently pay him annually to be in a lesser league.

With all the revenue being reduced, the quality of players you could attract drops down to that level.

You absolutely become a feeder school on an annual basis.

Now you’re in a conference fighting for 1-2 spots in the tournament if you’re lucky.

All great points but Im still struggling on how you justify investing over $10M per year to a below average program with little student support that receives $4.7M from the conference for all sports.

radecicco · Saturday at 12:27 PM

This conversation is so lame. We’re not going anywhere. Things will change in 2030/31 when all the media deals except the ACC come up for renewal including the BE.

NIL BAD · Saturday at 1:41 PM

What’s lame is thinking we can piss away millions for 5 more years. SH isn’t a state or federal institution where there is virtually no accountability how money is spent.

cernjSHU · Saturday at 2:23 PM

This board is not seeing the bigger picture and focusing on Seton Hall. The Big East is in trouble. Every school but for UConn and Villanova is in trouble. Once UConn leaves. and they will leave, this league is done. Villanova will leave with them. The Big East is a thorn in the side of the power 4 conferences. This will destroy the league and it will relegate it to A-10 status.

IronKaz1 · Saturday at 2:53 PM

why Villanova has no football to bring to the the table.. So your saying Saint Johns and Georgetown will also turn to sh-t as well?

PirateBlue08 · Saturday at 3:07 PM

cernjSHU said:
This board is not seeing the bigger picture and focusing on Seton Hall. The Big East is in trouble. Every school but for UConn and Villanova is in trouble. Once UConn leaves. and they will leave, this league is done. Villanova will leave with them. The Big East is a thorn in the side of the power 4 conferences. This will destroy the league and it will relegate it to A-10 status.

I agree with everything until Villanova leaving with UConn

To go where??

PirateBlue08 · Saturday at 3:09 PM

cernjSHU said:
The Big East is a thorn in the side of the power 4 conferences. This will destroy the league and it will relegate it to A-10 status.

Can anyone articulate why we are such a thorn? They really lay up awake at night thinking about us? Somehow little ol Catholic schools with tiny endowments are somehow holding them back? I want to understand this

Left Coast Pirates · Saturday at 4:59 PM

NIL BAD said:
All great points but Im still struggling on how you justify investing over $10M per year to a below average program with little student support that receives $4.7M from the conference for all sports.

I wouldn’t invest the $10m either. The program is at a serious crossroads.

PirateBlue08 · Saturday at 5:05 PM

We’re at the precipice of an enormous crossroads

dehere23 · Saturday at 8:52 PM

cernjSHU said:
This board is not seeing the bigger picture and focusing on Seton Hall. The Big East is in trouble. Every school but for UConn and Villanova is in trouble. Once UConn leaves. and they will leave, this league is done. Villanova will leave with them. The Big East is a thorn in the side of the power 4 conferences. This will destroy the league and it will relegate it to A-10 status.

St John’s has been one of the biggest stories nationally over the past 2 years. They draw more for Butler on a Tuesday night in the dead of winter than our biggest games during the Willard era, and they are covered like a quasi professional team by the NY media. Now that may all go away when Pitino is done, but UConn, Nova and them is a pretty good foundation right now.

HALL85 · Sunday at 6:03 AM

cernjSHU said:
This board is not seeing the bigger picture and focusing on Seton Hall. The Big East is in trouble. Every school but for UConn and Villanova is in trouble. Once UConn leaves. and they will leave, this league is done. Villanova will leave with them. The Big East is a thorn in the side of the power 4 conferences. This will destroy the league and it will relegate it to A-10 status.

There is another conference reshuffle on the horizon with the B10 and SEC driving the bus….football driven. UConn could be attractive to the ACC to fill defections.

The BE will be a mid-major that will get 1-3 bids and will be challenged to make the Sweet 16. SJU was essentially irrelevant for decades before Pitino got there. Need to position the league as a premier mid-major MBB conference and try to maximize whatever media money is out there because of the populations in the markets.

A realistic if not pretty future.

BrklynGrad · Sunday at 6:48 AM

HALL85 said:
There is another conference reshuffle on the horizon with the B10 and SEC driving the bus….football driven. UConn could be attractive to the ACC to fill defections.

The BE will be a mid-major that will get 1-3 bids and will be challenged to make the Sweet 16. SJU was essentially irrelevant for decades before Pitino got there. Need to position the league as a premier mid-major MBB conference and try to maximize whatever media money is out there because of the populations in the markets.

A realistic if not pretty future.

But if we accept---- and become----- mid major status, do we still play at the Rock? And if not there, where?

Fishjam · Sunday at 7:46 AM

NIL BAD said:
All great points but Im still struggling on how you justify investing over $10M per year to a below average program with little student support that receives $4.7M from the conference for all sports.

There are only about 20 or so basketball programs that make money. The vast majority spend tens of millions more than they make because they deem the investment in sports as worth it for the good of the University. Successful sports teams are a huge driver of alumni engagement and donations. How much they spend is a question for each individual school to make.

I could argue that its better to go all-in for a few more million per year than to do what we are doing now. Spending a good chunk of money just to remain relevant as a low-end HM instead of investing an extra $4-5M to operate in the top half of the Conference and on par with average P4s.

This University just spent $55 Million for a Practice facility and tens of millions more on Walsh, baseball & softball renovations. None of that was driven by revenues created by those sports. It comes from University money and alumni donations.

Piratz · Sunday at 7:52 AM

Why is this even a question?

HallGuy2323 · Sunday at 8:01 AM

Piratz said:
Why is this even a question?

Want to take a look at the conference records of each program the last 10-15 years? That’s why it’s a question. It won’t happen though

Piratz · Sunday at 8:10 AM

HallGuy2323 said:
Want to take a look at the conference records of each program the last 10-15 years? That’s why it’s a question. It won’t happen though

The business of being in the Big East > competitiveness.

lloyde dobler · Sunday at 8:37 AM

PirateBlue08 said:
Can anyone articulate why we are such a thorn? They really lay up awake at night thinking about us? Somehow little ol Catholic schools with tiny endowments are somehow holding them back? I want to understand this

They want every bit of money they can get.
Didn‘t the Big East have a team in the championship last week? Thats why. They want it all to themselves.

Seton75 · Sunday at 9:08 AM

ivyhillpark63 said:
Man would hate to see this boards comments if it was around in the early big east days.

This is worse. We were the only problem in the early BE days.

Seton75 · Sunday at 9:10 AM

Left Coast Pirates said:
What I can’t figure out is why people who think we should step down to the A10 or MAAC think you would transition apples to apples.

Our BE revenue share would be gone.
We would make even less on ticket sales / season tickets because the demand would go down when the teams in the building aren’t at the level of Nova, SJU, UCONN.

Or the revenue will go down because you’re playing at Walsh, which means you couldn’t appease all the fans we do have left.

You can’t pay the coach what we currently pay him annually to be in a lesser league.

With all the revenue being reduced, the quality of players you could attract drops down to that level.

You absolutely become a feeder school on an annual basis.

Now you’re in a conference fighting for 1-2 spots in the tournament if you’re lucky.

Right.

hallwins · Sunday at 10:02 AM

Seton75 said:
This is worse. We were the only problem in the early BE days.

UConn was also a problem until Calhoun got there. And the talk was Seton Hall and providence could not survive. Meanwhile, the league offices were in Providence and the architect of the entire thing was a Providence legend. Did not stop the questions which were equally laughable back then.

Seton75 · Sunday at 10:35 AM

Seton75 said:
This is worse. We were the only problem in the early BE days.

I meant, fwiw, that SHU was SHU's problem in the early 80s, and we could fix it. These days, any fix comes from others.

Blue Bloods · Sunday at 10:45 AM

Seton75 said:
Right.

lloyde dobler said:
Didn‘t the Big East have a team in the championship last week?

Which is why one of the power conferences will want Connecticut.

HALL85 · Sunday at 11:23 AM

BrklynGrad said:
But if we accept---- and become----- mid major status, do we still play at the Rock? And if not there, where?

Will a BE without UConn be a problem for staying at the Rock?

Is Big East Best for SHU into the future?

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