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Dan Hurley and his terrible first 2 UCONN years

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20MRoster

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Since there is a lot of talk on how Poop was better than Hurley to start his career at a high major, I looked at their records. Started with mid major and compared only the first 2 years at UK/ UCONN. If you can't see a difference between the two archetypes presented here, I can't help you. Winning % in a vacuum does not tell a story.

Mid. Major:
Poop – Utah Valley + BYU (8 yrs). 187-108 (63.39%). 0 NCAAT wins (0-2)
Hurley – Wagner + Rhode Island (8 yrs). 151-105 (58.98%). 2 NCAAT wins (2-2, wins as 11 and 7)
Advantage: Hurley

UK/ UConn (first 2 yrs only):
Poop: 46-26 (63.89%). Y2 vs Y1: 5.6% decrease in win rate.
Best finish S16. Significant T25 wins vs Duke, Gonzaga, Florida, Tennessee, Arkansas. Matching blowout losses that I don’t need to get into.
UK record prior 2 seasons: 45-22 (67.16%). UK win rate diminished 3.27% by Poop

Hurley: 35-29 (54.69%). Y2 vs Y1: 12.8% increase in win rate.
UCONN record prior 2 seasons: 30-35 (46.15%). UCONN win rate improved 8.54% by Hurley.

Advantage: Hurley for flipping the outlook on the program and making significant strides year over year.

Hurley first tournament win at age 44
Poop first tournament win at age 52

If you can’t see why Hurley (even cherrypicking him at his “worst”) is not a higher potential candiate than Poop, I can’t help you. Things that I didn’t include in this summary include recruiting, wins over expectation, roster spending, among others). I don’t it’s necessary to go any deeper, it’s clear from even a surface look that 1 candidate had potential and the other is trending the wrong way.

The relative trends are pretty damning for Poop – he brought down the UK win rate, and he himself declined by over 5% year 1 to year 2. Hurley, on the other hand, improved the UConn program overall, and improved significantly year 1 to year 2.

If course, if you add the rest of Hurley’s body of work at UConn, you see that Y1->Y2 growth is sustained and plateaus at a title and >86%+ win seasons.

Reasons for not sticking with Poop Y3 and essentially wasting a year of UK basketball are there, IMO. Extrapolation from current trend and general low potential archetype would support a further decline of UK ball in Y3.
 
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I’m The Village Idiot

I’m The Village Idiot

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20MRoster said:
Winning % in a vacuum does not tell a story.
Click to expand...
Yeah….I know. Honestly tired of saying it. Win/loss record means much less than the full body of work. So far, Pope had a good first year at Kentucky and a bad second year. The level of bad in year two was more intense than the level of good in year one. Hence, he is on the hot seat. This is grade school level stuff and frankly obvious. Yet here we are still debating the same talking points, beating the same dead horses.
 
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20MRoster

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I’m The Village Idiot said:
Yeah….I know. Honestly tired of saying it. Win/loss record means much less than the full body of work. So far, Pope had a good first year at Kentucky and a bad second year. The level of bad in year two was more intense than the level of good in year one. Hence, he is on the hot seat. This is grade school level stuff and frankly obvious. Yet here we are still debating the same talking points, beating the same dead horses.
Click to expand...
No, there are still way too many people that think Hurley and Poop are the same level of candidate if their first 2 years are considered. The former uplifted their program to the tune of 12% and the other reduced his program (and keeps going). The former has the age - success rate of an elite coach, the other is Poop.

We don't have an elite coach at Kentucky. If that's so brain dead obvious to you, why the **** would you advocate a Year 3? Yeah, he's getting it. So what? That's just because the administration is incompetent.
 
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Dward13

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Hurley also won a bunch of state titles in the high school ranks in New Jersey before going to D1. He also learned under his dad, Bob Hurley senior, who might be the greatest high school basketball coach in history.

But I will admit, I never would have projected Hurley to be as good as he has been. I didn’t see it coming.

I didn’t see Todd Golden winning a title at Florida either.
 
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20MRoster

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Dward13 said:
Hurley also won a bunch of state titles in the high school ranks in New Jersey before going to D1. He also learned under his dad, Bob Hurley senior, who might be the greatest high school basketball coach in history.

But I will admit, I never would have projected Hurley to be as good as he has been. I didn’t see it coming.

I didn’t see Todd Golden winning a title at Florida either.
Click to expand...
Great points on the lineage. I agree with you on Golden, and even with his title I look at him as being a rung under Hurley.
 
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I’m The Village Idiot

I’m The Village Idiot

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20MRoster said:
No, there are still way too many people that think Hurley and Poop are the same level of candidate if their first 2 years are considered.
Click to expand...
Ok. I don’t know how anyone would know that one way or another yet. Sample size is far too small.

20MRoster said:
The former uplifted their program to the tune of 12% and the other reduced his program (and keeps going). The former has the age - success rate of an elite coach, the other is Poop.
Click to expand...
When you’re calling the coach Poop, I know this is rigorous and impartial work you are doing. Simply digging to find answers without bias lol

20MRoster said:
We don't have an elite coach at Kentucky.
Click to expand...
We haven’t had one over the two year span he has been here. Will he be in the future? I have no idea… I don’t have a crystal ball, but I have a magic eight ball. I shook it and it said “Not likely, but possible.”

20MRoster said:
If that's so brain dead obvious to you, why the **** would you advocate a Year 3?
Click to expand...
Year 1 - Good
Year 2 - Bad

Year 3 will tell the tale.

20MRoster said:
Yeah, he's getting it. So what? That's just because the administration is incompetent.
Click to expand...
This is called assuming your premise. ^ You simply declared with a wave of the hand that the only reason he’s getting a third year is administrative incompetence. Certainly, this confirms there can be literally zero reasons otherwise. This means you are one hundred percent correct and there is no need for debate. Anyone who wants a third year is doing so in solidarity with the administration, probably some type of hidden agenda. You have shed a light on their folly and this was a noble deed, sir.
 
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paulcalhoun_rivals397471

paulcalhoun_rivals397471

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20MRoster said:
Since there is a lot of talk on how Poop was better than Hurley to start his career at a high major, I looked at their records. Started with mid major and compared only the first 2 years at UK/ UCONN. If you can't see a difference between the two archetypes presented here, I can't help you. Winning % in a vacuum does not tell a story.

Mid. Major:
Poop – Utah Valley + BYU (8 yrs). 187-108 (63.39%). 0 NCAAT wins (0-2)
Hurley – Wagner + Rhode Island (8 yrs). 151-105 (58.98%). 2 NCAAT wins (2-2, wins as 11 and 7)
Advantage: Hurley

UK/ UConn (first 2 yrs only):
Poop: 46-26 (63.89%). Y2 vs Y1: 5.6% decrease in win rate.
Best finish S16. Significant T25 wins vs Duke, Gonzaga, Florida, Tennessee, Arkansas. Matching blowout losses that I don’t need to get into.
UK record prior 2 seasons: 45-22 (67.16%). UK win rate diminished 3.27% by Poop

Hurley: 35-29 (54.69%). Y2 vs Y1: 12.8% increase in win rate.
UCONN record prior 2 seasons: 30-35 (46.15%). UCONN win rate improved 8.54% by Hurley.

Advantage: Hurley for flipping the outlook on the program and making significant strides year over year.

Hurley first tournament win at age 44
Poop first tournament win at age 52

If you can’t see why Hurley (even cherrypicking him at his “worst”) is not a higher potential candiate than Poop, I can’t help you. Things that I didn’t include in this summary include recruiting, wins over expectation, roster spending, among others). I don’t it’s necessary to go any deeper, it’s clear from even a surface look that 1 candidate had potential and the other is trending the wrong way.

The relative trends are pretty damning for Poop – he brought down the UK win rate, and he himself declined by over 5% year 1 to year 2. Hurley, on the other hand, improved the UConn program overall, and improved significantly year 1 to year 2.

If course, if you add the rest of Hurley’s body of work at UConn, you see that Y1->Y2 growth is sustained and plateaus at a title and >86%+ win seasons.

Reasons for not sticking with Poop Y3 and essentially wasting a year of UK basketball are there, IMO. Extrapolation from current trend and general low potential archetype would support a further decline of UK ball in Y3.
Click to expand...
Are you actually going to claim you wouldn't have demanded he be fired after going 35-29 through two years? or 50-37 after his third season? There is no way I'm buying that.
 
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paulcalhoun_rivals397471 said:
Are you actually going to claim you wouldn't have demanded he be fired after going 35-29 through two years? or 50-37 after his third season? There is no way I'm buying that.
Click to expand...
If I was looking at straight win % I would. You are right on that. But if I look at it from the lens of "what was the program's win % before he got here" and " has he improved from Year 1 to Year 2", I would think differently. I don't see any talking points on Hurley going beyond that first layer.
 
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kyjeff1

kyjeff1

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20MRoster said:
No, there are still way too many people that think Hurley and Poop are the same level of candidate if their first 2 years are considered. The former uplifted their program to the tune of 12% and the other reduced his program (and keeps going). The former has the age - success rate of an elite coach, the other is Poop.

We don't have an elite coach at Kentucky. If that's so brain dead obvious to you, why the **** would you advocate a Year 3? Yeah, he's getting it. So what? That's just because the administration is incompetent.
Click to expand...
That's not what's being said at all.

You keep running around talking about career win percentage and saying that's who he is and will never get better.

However, it was quickly pointed out that Hurley's winning percentage for his career, prior to 2023, was worse than what Pope's was before UK.

Nobody, not one single person, said Pope = Hurley, all we ARE saying is, improvement can and has been done.

In fact, Pope accomplished many things last year that he never came close to doing at any of his previous jobs.
 
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philstat

philstat

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paulcalhoun_rivals397471 said:
Minimal improvement for BYU and it has no bearing on the fact that you told a massive lie. Opinions are one thing but disingenuous exaggeration is entirely different thing.
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Lee Anne, relax, BYU lost their second best player, up until that point they were a top 15 team most of the season, we weren’t.
 
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paulcalhoun_rivals397471

paulcalhoun_rivals397471

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philstat said:
Lee Anne, relax, BYU lost their second best player, up until that point they were a top 15 team most of the season, we weren’t.
Click to expand...
Yet you dismiss the impact of UK's injuries. We started the season with them injured. Many of you actually claim that helped us. You are obviously just a proud liar.
 
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kyjeff1 said:
And UK improved after Pope took the job. Literally won more quad 1 games than anyone ever has and won 2 games in the tournament, just like BYU did.
Click to expand...
This is a stretch. UKs win % is down 3+% from the final 2 Calipari years. All those amazing wins got a S16 and R32 blowout. Means **** all in the long run. The program is in a clear decline.
 
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I’m The Village Idiot

I’m The Village Idiot

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20MRoster said:
I

If I was looking at straight win % I would. You are right on that. But if I look at it from the lens of "what was the program's win % before he got here" and " has he improved from Year 1 to Year 2", I would think differently. I don't see any talking points on Hurley going beyond that first layer.
Click to expand...
Interesting. So it almost sounds like the argument is to compare the before/after.

I’ll bet that doesn’t apply to ONE tournament win in the FOUR full seasons prior to Pope and THREE tournament wins in TWO seasons so far. I also bet it doesn’t apply to earning a THREE seed in the NCAA tournament, a mark that has been surpassed at Kentucky one time since 2019.

Do you care about consistency? Which is more important: being right or getting it right?
 
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Monday Nitro

Monday Nitro

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paulcalhoun_rivals397471 said:
Minimal improvement for BYU and it has no bearing on the fact that you told a massive lie. Opinions are one thing but disingenuous exaggeration is an entirely different thing.
Click to expand...

Philstat is in no way a good person. Look at all the previous threads he has started. He tries to sound like he's positive but it's all sarcasm to confuse people. Guys like him get beat up where I'm from, lol.
 
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20MRoster

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I’m The Village Idiot said:
Interesting. So it almost sounds like the argument is to compare the before/after.

I’ll bet that doesn’t apply to ONE tournament win in the FOUR full seasons prior to Pope and THREE tournament wins in TWO seasons so far. I also bet it doesn’t apply to earning a THREE seed in the NCAA tournament, a mark that has been surpassed at Kentucky one time since 2019.

Do you care about consistency? Which is more important: being right or getting it right?
Click to expand...
ok. we got to a S16. if that's your reason for celebrating, extend the man 10 years.

I care about the UK program being on top. You care about something different, clearly.
 
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paulcalhoun_rivals397471

paulcalhoun_rivals397471

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philstat said:
Yeah Jeff, ole Pope is going to do what BH has done win multiple titles and get in another FF getting ready to win his third in the past decade, yeah, that’s going to be Pope…
Click to expand...
Not even close to what he said. We have already established that honesty and fairness in discussion hold no value to you though.

"JQ quit, he was exposed, zero offensive abilities and low BB IQ, JL wasn’t ready for the SEC."

Quaintance was injured. Any other claim is mere conspiracy theory at this point. The claim against Lowe is 100% unfair as he was significantly injured in what little bit of action we were able to see.
 
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kyjeff1

kyjeff1

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20MRoster said:
I

If I was looking at straight win % I would. You are right on that. But if I look at it from the lens of "what was the program's win % before he got here" and " has he improved from Year 1 to Year 2", I would think differently. I don't see any talking points on Hurley going beyond that first layer.
Click to expand...
LMAO, you are so ridiculous. You will find excuses to prop up other coaches when faced with facts that show otherwise, but when it comes to Pope, you fight tooth and nail to deny anything good he has ever done.

I mean, you are such a hardcore Pope hater, that you created a profile to mock him. That is so pathetic.

Can you just be a regular guy and just say you don't think Pope is the right guy? You act like he never won a single game here. I get it, he hasn't knocked it out of the park AFTER YEAR 2, but stop acting like he went to the NIT both years here. Hmm, maybe we should check to see if Hurley ever missed the tournament.
 
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TheApostleSaulSmith

TheApostleSaulSmith

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kyjeff1 said:
LMAO, you are so ridiculous. You will find excuses to prop up other coaches when faced with facts that show otherwise, but when it comes to Pope, you fight tooth and nail to deny anything good he has ever done.

I mean, you are such a hardcore Pope hater, that you created a profile to mock him. That is so pathetic.

Can you just be a regular guy and just say you don't think Pope is the right guy? You act like he never won a single game here. I get it, he hasn't knocked it out of the park AFTER YEAR 2, but stop acting like he went to the NIT both years here. Hmm, maybe we should check to see if Hurley ever missed the tournament.
Click to expand...
He’s said that a million times. We all have.
 
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kyjeff1

kyjeff1

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20MRoster said:
Improvement can be done, but Pope doesn't have the archetype of a guy who has much improvement left in his bag of tricks.

That is the argument here.
Click to expand...
You don't know that and if you were a Rhode Island, or UConn fan, you would have demanded DH be fired halfway through his 2nd year. Ask me how I know this.

Jeez, if Pope went to the NIT, like Hurley did, you would be out in the streets setting couches on fire, but here you are, saying Hurley did it, but Pope can't.

You've been wrong about everytning you have posted since you signed on here, so I'm liking Pope's chances
 
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Catphright23

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Lol dumb take. We lost lowe out only pg and they lost sanders. Byu with their money hasn't done much better. Hurley didn't wanna be here enough gives a **** about hurley.The poop boy and philstat only can criticize with name calling being over negative.
Byu made it to sweet 16 and made it to 64 last year with tons more money to recruit. We both had injuries both years. Don't think that's better. Uconn got a good class won two championship, and still are clinging on to that class. With their senior white guy, after this year I'll like to see how they do. Sometimes that's all it takes see Florida Noah, hortford etc.
 
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kyjeff1

kyjeff1

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philstat said:
Yeah Jeff, ole Pope is going to do what BH has done win multiple titles and get in another FF getting ready to win his third in the past decade, yeah, that’s going to be Pope…
Click to expand...
You can't even call out the right Hurley brother. Bobby hasn’t done sh*t.

Go look through Pope's 11 year career, what was his best year? I know the answer, you do too, but you won't say it, because it means you're wrong.
 
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philstat

philstat

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kyjeff1 said:
You can't even call out the right Hurley brother. Bobby hasn’t done sh*t.

Go look through Pope's 11 year career, what was his best year? I know the answer, you do too, but you won't say it, because it means you're wrong.
Click to expand...
That was my fault meant to say DH.
 
kyjeff1

kyjeff1

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20MRoster said:
This is a stretch. UKs win % is down 3+% from the final 2 Calipari years. All those amazing wins got a S16 and R32 blowout. Means **** all in the long run. The program is in a clear decline.
Click to expand...
Who cares about winning percentage. Did you factor SOS into that? You obviously didn’t. UK had the #3 SOS last year, win percentages go out the window when one coach plays a gauntlet and the other plays cupcakes.

Just like I told you yesterday, stop trying to post facts you know nothing about, they keep blowing up in your face, yet you never learn.
 
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TheApostleSaulSmith

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Hurley comparison makes no sense. Never has. His teams improved every season (barring the Covid year), and then he won it all his 5th and 6th years there. If we were better this year than last year, people wouldn’t be cliff jumping.

y’all probably assume I’ve always been a Pope hater but I was on board the first year. It ended poorly but there were definitely bright spots. I was bored of Cal so Pope and that opening press conference actually reinvigorated my fandom a lot.

But early on in this season, somewhere in the atrocious Gonzaga-Louisville-MSU stretch of stinkers, it became abundantly clear to me that he’s not the guy. He’s just not. And it’s a pointless waste of a season to try and run it back with him. We need a rebuild to return to elite status. Every year with Pope, we’re postponing that.
 
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20MRoster

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kyjeff1 said:
Who cares about winning percentage. Did you factor SOS into that? You obviously didn’t. UK had the #3 SOS last year, win percentages go out the window when one coach plays a gauntlet and the other plays cupcakes.

Just like I told you yesterday, stop trying to post facts you know nothing about, they keep blowing up in your face, yet you never learn.
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And UK got blown out in the R32. All those tough games really prepped them, huh?
 
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