Dan Hurley and his terrible first 2 UCONN years

[20MRoster]

Since there is a lot of talk on how Poop was better than Hurley to start his career at a high major, I looked at their records. Started with mid major and compared only the first 2 years at UK/ UCONN. If you can't see a difference between the two archetypes presented here, I can't help you. Winning % in a vacuum does not tell a story.

Mid. Major:
Poop – Utah Valley + BYU (8 yrs). 187-108 (63.39%). 0 NCAAT wins (0-2)
Hurley – Wagner + Rhode Island (8 yrs). 151-105 (58.98%). 2 NCAAT wins (2-2, wins as 11 and 7)
Advantage: Hurley

UK/ UConn (first 2 yrs only):
Poop: 46-26 (63.89%). Y2 vs Y1: 5.6% decrease in win rate.
Best finish S16. Significant T25 wins vs Duke, Gonzaga, Florida, Tennessee, Arkansas. Matching blowout losses that I don’t need to get into.
UK record prior 2 seasons: 45-22 (67.16%). UK win rate diminished 3.27% by Poop

Hurley: 35-29 (54.69%). Y2 vs Y1: 12.8% increase in win rate.
UCONN record prior 2 seasons: 30-35 (46.15%). UCONN win rate improved 8.54% by Hurley.

Advantage: Hurley for flipping the outlook on the program and making significant strides year over year.

Hurley first tournament win at age 44
Poop first tournament win at age 52

If you can’t see why Hurley (even cherrypicking him at his “worst”) is not a higher potential candiate than Poop, I can’t help you. Things that I didn’t include in this summary include recruiting, wins over expectation, roster spending, among others). I don’t it’s necessary to go any deeper, it’s clear from even a surface look that 1 candidate had potential and the other is trending the wrong way.

The relative trends are pretty damning for Poop – he brought down the UK win rate, and he himself declined by over 5% year 1 to year 2. Hurley, on the other hand, improved the UConn program overall, and improved significantly year 1 to year 2.

If course, if you add the rest of Hurley’s body of work at UConn, you see that Y1->Y2 growth is sustained and plateaus at a title and >86%+ win seasons.

Reasons for not sticking with Poop Y3 and essentially wasting a year of UK basketball are there, IMO. Extrapolation from current trend and general low potential archetype would support a further decline of UK ball in Y3.

 

[philstat]

Give it a rest, Pope has been coaching nearly 20 years and he still sucks ***, they’ll be some no matter what you prove they’ll still see him as an up and comer.

 

[I’m The Village Idiot]

Winning % in a vacuum does not tell a story.

Yeah….I know. Honestly tired of saying it. Win/loss record means much less than the full body of work. So far, Pope had a good first year at Kentucky and a bad second year. The level of bad in year two was more intense than the level of good in year one. Hence, he is on the hot seat. This is grade school level stuff and frankly obvious. Yet here we are still debating the same talking points, beating the same dead horses.

 

[20MRoster]

Give it a rest, Pope has been coaching nearly 20 years and he still sucks ***, they’ll be some no matter what you prove they’ll still see him as an up and comer.

If you read even the last paragraph and skipped everything else, you'd see that everything I wrote agrees with what you are saying.

 

[20MRoster]

Yeah….I know. Honestly tired of saying it. Win/loss record means much less than the full body of work. So far, Pope had a good first year at Kentucky and a bad second year. The level of bad in year two was more intense than the level of good in year one. Hence, he is on the hot seat. This is grade school level stuff and frankly obvious. Yet here we are still debating the same talking points, beating the same dead horses.

No, there are still way too many people that think Hurley and Poop are the same level of candidate if their first 2 years are considered. The former uplifted their program to the tune of 12% and the other reduced his program (and keeps going). The former has the age - success rate of an elite coach, the other is Poop.

We don't have an elite coach at Kentucky. If that's so brain dead obvious to you, why the **** would you advocate a Year 3? Yeah, he's getting it. So what? That's just because the administration is incompetent.

 

[Dward13]

Hurley also won a bunch of state titles in the high school ranks in New Jersey before going to D1. He also learned under his dad, Bob Hurley senior, who might be the greatest high school basketball coach in history.

But I will admit, I never would have projected Hurley to be as good as he has been. I didn’t see it coming.

I didn’t see Todd Golden winning a title at Florida either.

 

[20MRoster]

Hurley also won a bunch of state titles in the high school ranks in New Jersey before going to D1. He also learned under his dad, Bob Hurley senior, who might be the greatest high school basketball coach in history.

But I will admit, I never would have projected Hurley to be as good as he has been. I didn’t see it coming.

I didn’t see Todd Golden winning a title at Florida either.

Great points on the lineage. I agree with you on Golden, and even with his title I look at him as being a rung under Hurley.

 

[paulcalhoun_rivals397471]

Give it a rest, Pope has been coaching nearly 20 years and he still sucks ***, they’ll be some no matter what you prove they’ll still see him as an up and comer.

11 years is not close to 20.

 

[philstat]

11 years is not close to 20.

Really doesn’t matter much, IMO, BYU actually improved after he departed, that alone says a lot.

 

[I’m The Village Idiot]

No, there are still way too many people that think Hurley and Poop are the same level of candidate if their first 2 years are considered.

Ok. I don’t know how anyone would know that one way or another yet. Sample size is far too small.

The former uplifted their program to the tune of 12% and the other reduced his program (and keeps going). The former has the age - success rate of an elite coach, the other is Poop.

When you’re calling the coach Poop, I know this is rigorous and impartial work you are doing. Simply digging to find answers without bias lol

We don't have an elite coach at Kentucky.

We haven’t had one over the two year span he has been here. Will he be in the future? I have no idea… I don’t have a crystal ball, but I have a magic eight ball. I shook it and it said “Not likely, but possible.”

If that's so brain dead obvious to you, why the **** would you advocate a Year 3?

Year 1 - Good
Year 2 - Bad

Year 3 will tell the tale.

Yeah, he's getting it. So what? That's just because the administration is incompetent.

This is called assuming your premise. ^ You simply declared with a wave of the hand that the only reason he’s getting a third year is administrative incompetence. Certainly, this confirms there can be literally zero reasons otherwise. This means you are one hundred percent correct and there is no need for debate. Anyone who wants a third year is doing so in solidarity with the administration, probably some type of hidden agenda. You have shed a light on their folly and this was a noble deed, sir.

 

[paulcalhoun_rivals397471]

Since there is a lot of talk on how Poop was better than Hurley to start his career at a high major, I looked at their records. Started with mid major and compared only the first 2 years at UK/ UCONN. If you can't see a difference between the two archetypes presented here, I can't help you. Winning % in a vacuum does not tell a story.

Mid. Major:
Poop – Utah Valley + BYU (8 yrs). 187-108 (63.39%). 0 NCAAT wins (0-2)
Hurley – Wagner + Rhode Island (8 yrs). 151-105 (58.98%). 2 NCAAT wins (2-2, wins as 11 and 7)
Advantage: Hurley

UK/ UConn (first 2 yrs only):
Poop: 46-26 (63.89%). Y2 vs Y1: 5.6% decrease in win rate.
Best finish S16. Significant T25 wins vs Duke, Gonzaga, Florida, Tennessee, Arkansas. Matching blowout losses that I don’t need to get into.
UK record prior 2 seasons: 45-22 (67.16%). UK win rate diminished 3.27% by Poop

Hurley: 35-29 (54.69%). Y2 vs Y1: 12.8% increase in win rate.
UCONN record prior 2 seasons: 30-35 (46.15%). UCONN win rate improved 8.54% by Hurley.

Advantage: Hurley for flipping the outlook on the program and making significant strides year over year.

Hurley first tournament win at age 44
Poop first tournament win at age 52

If you can’t see why Hurley (even cherrypicking him at his “worst”) is not a higher potential candiate than Poop, I can’t help you. Things that I didn’t include in this summary include recruiting, wins over expectation, roster spending, among others). I don’t it’s necessary to go any deeper, it’s clear from even a surface look that 1 candidate had potential and the other is trending the wrong way.

The relative trends are pretty damning for Poop – he brought down the UK win rate, and he himself declined by over 5% year 1 to year 2. Hurley, on the other hand, improved the UConn program overall, and improved significantly year 1 to year 2.

If course, if you add the rest of Hurley’s body of work at UConn, you see that Y1->Y2 growth is sustained and plateaus at a title and >86%+ win seasons.

Reasons for not sticking with Poop Y3 and essentially wasting a year of UK basketball are there, IMO. Extrapolation from current trend and general low potential archetype would support a further decline of UK ball in Y3.

Are you actually going to claim you wouldn't have demanded he be fired after going 35-29 through two years? or 50-37 after his third season? There is no way I'm buying that.

 

[20MRoster]

I

Are you actually going to claim you wouldn't have demanded he be fired after going 35-29 through two years? or 50-37 after his third season? There is no way I'm buying that.

If I was looking at straight win % I would. You are right on that. But if I look at it from the lens of "what was the program's win % before he got here" and " has he improved from Year 1 to Year 2", I would think differently. I don't see any talking points on Hurley going beyond that first layer.

 

[paulcalhoun_rivals397471]

Really doesn’t matter much, IMO, BYU actually improved after he departed, that alone says a lot.

Minimal improvement for BYU and it has no bearing on the fact that you told a massive lie. Opinions are one thing but disingenuous exaggeration is an entirely different thing.

 

[kyjeff1]

No, there are still way too many people that think Hurley and Poop are the same level of candidate if their first 2 years are considered. The former uplifted their program to the tune of 12% and the other reduced his program (and keeps going). The former has the age - success rate of an elite coach, the other is Poop.

We don't have an elite coach at Kentucky. If that's so brain dead obvious to you, why the **** would you advocate a Year 3? Yeah, he's getting it. So what? That's just because the administration is incompetent.

That's not what's being said at all.

You keep running around talking about career win percentage and saying that's who he is and will never get better.

However, it was quickly pointed out that Hurley's winning percentage for his career, prior to 2023, was worse than what Pope's was before UK.

Nobody, not one single person, said Pope = Hurley, all we ARE saying is, improvement can and has been done.

In fact, Pope accomplished many things last year that he never came close to doing at any of his previous jobs.

 

[philstat]

Minimal improvement for BYU and it has no bearing on the fact that you told a massive lie. Opinions are one thing but disingenuous exaggeration is entirely different thing.

Lee Anne, relax, BYU lost their second best player, up until that point they were a top 15 team most of the season, we weren’t.

 

[kyjeff1]

11 years is not close to 20.

It’s what they have to do to prove whatever flawed "facts" they think they have.

 

[20MRoster]

Improvement can be done, but Pope doesn't have the archetype of a guy who has much improvement left in his bag of tricks.

That is the argument here.

 

[kyjeff1]

Really doesn’t matter much, IMO, BYU actually improved after he departed, that alone says a lot.

And UK improved after Pope took the job. Literally won more quad 1 games than anyone ever has and won 2 games in the tournament, just like BYU did.

 

[philstat]

It’s what they have to do to prove whatever flawed "facts" they think they have.

Yeah Jeff, ole Pope is going to do what BH has done win multiple titles and get in another FF getting ready to win his third in the past decade, yeah, that’s going to be Pope…

 

[paulcalhoun_rivals397471]

Lee Anne, relax, BYU lost their second best player, up until that point they were a top 15 team most of the season, we weren’t.

Yet you dismiss the impact of UK's injuries. We started the season with them injured. Many of you actually claim that helped us. You are obviously just a proud liar.

 

[20MRoster]

And UK improved after Pope took the job. Literally won more quad 1 games than anyone ever has and won 2 games in the tournament, just like BYU did.

This is a stretch. UKs win % is down 3+% from the final 2 Calipari years. All those amazing wins got a S16 and R32 blowout. Means **** all in the long run. The program is in a clear decline.

 

[I’m The Village Idiot]

I

If I was looking at straight win % I would. You are right on that. But if I look at it from the lens of "what was the program's win % before he got here" and " has he improved from Year 1 to Year 2", I would think differently. I don't see any talking points on Hurley going beyond that first layer.

Interesting. So it almost sounds like the argument is to compare the before/after.

I’ll bet that doesn’t apply to ONE tournament win in the FOUR full seasons prior to Pope and THREE tournament wins in TWO seasons so far. I also bet it doesn’t apply to earning a THREE seed in the NCAA tournament, a mark that has been surpassed at Kentucky one time since 2019.

Do you care about consistency? Which is more important: being right or getting it right?

 

[Monday Nitro]

Minimal improvement for BYU and it has no bearing on the fact that you told a massive lie. Opinions are one thing but disingenuous exaggeration is an entirely different thing.

Philstat is in no way a good person. Look at all the previous threads he has started. He tries to sound like he's positive but it's all sarcasm to confuse people. Guys like him get beat up where I'm from, lol.

 

[20MRoster]

Interesting. So it almost sounds like the argument is to compare the before/after.

I’ll bet that doesn’t apply to ONE tournament win in the FOUR full seasons prior to Pope and THREE tournament wins in TWO seasons so far. I also bet it doesn’t apply to earning a THREE seed in the NCAA tournament, a mark that has been surpassed at Kentucky one time since 2019.

Do you care about consistency? Which is more important: being right or getting it right?

ok. we got to a S16. if that's your reason for celebrating, extend the man 10 years.

I care about the UK program being on top. You care about something different, clearly.

 

[philstat]

Yet you dismiss the impact of UK's injuries. Many of you actually claim they helped us. You are obviously just a proud liar.

JQ quit, he was exposed, zero offensive abilities and low BB IQ, JL wasn’t ready for the SEC.

 

[paulcalhoun_rivals397471]

Yeah Jeff, ole Pope is going to do what BH has done win multiple titles and get in another FF getting ready to win his third in the past decade, yeah, that’s going to be Pope…

Not even close to what he said. We have already established that honesty and fairness in discussion hold no value to you though.

"JQ quit, he was exposed, zero offensive abilities and low BB IQ, JL wasn’t ready for the SEC."

Quaintance was injured. Any other claim is mere conspiracy theory at this point. The claim against Lowe is 100% unfair as he was significantly injured in what little bit of action we were able to see.

 

[kyjeff1]

I

If I was looking at straight win % I would. You are right on that. But if I look at it from the lens of "what was the program's win % before he got here" and " has he improved from Year 1 to Year 2", I would think differently. I don't see any talking points on Hurley going beyond that first layer.

LMAO, you are so ridiculous. You will find excuses to prop up other coaches when faced with facts that show otherwise, but when it comes to Pope, you fight tooth and nail to deny anything good he has ever done.

I mean, you are such a hardcore Pope hater, that you created a profile to mock him. That is so pathetic.

Can you just be a regular guy and just say you don't think Pope is the right guy? You act like he never won a single game here. I get it, he hasn't knocked it out of the park AFTER YEAR 2, but stop acting like he went to the NIT both years here. Hmm, maybe we should check to see if Hurley ever missed the tournament.

 

[TheApostleSaulSmith]

The difference between year 1 and year 2 is a bigger indicator than W-L IMO. We shouldn’t be moving backwards.

 

[kyjeff1]

Lee Anne, relax, BYU lost their second best player, up until that point they were a top 15 team most of the season, we weren’t.

Oh, so you're going to use an injury as an excuse for BYU, who was already sliding, but you refuse to acknowledge UK had 2 starters out?

You guys are so bad at this.

 

[TheApostleSaulSmith]

LMAO, you are so ridiculous. You will find excuses to prop up other coaches when faced with facts that show otherwise, but when it comes to Pope, you fight tooth and nail to deny anything good he has ever done.

I mean, you are such a hardcore Pope hater, that you created a profile to mock him. That is so pathetic.

Can you just be a regular guy and just say you don't think Pope is the right guy? You act like he never won a single game here. I get it, he hasn't knocked it out of the park AFTER YEAR 2, but stop acting like he went to the NIT both years here. Hmm, maybe we should check to see if Hurley ever missed the tournament.

He’s said that a million times. We all have.

 

[UKWildcats1987]

JQ quit, he was exposed, zero offensive abilities and low BB IQ, JL wasn’t ready for the SEC.

He definitely shut it down. He could have helped UK in March and chose not to. Just like KK season before when we needed PG depth.

 

[kyjeff1]

Improvement can be done, but Pope doesn't have the archetype of a guy who has much improvement left in his bag of tricks.

That is the argument here.

You don't know that and if you were a Rhode Island, or UConn fan, you would have demanded DH be fired halfway through his 2nd year. Ask me how I know this.

Jeez, if Pope went to the NIT, like Hurley did, you would be out in the streets setting couches on fire, but here you are, saying Hurley did it, but Pope can't.

You've been wrong about everytning you have posted since you signed on here, so I'm liking Pope's chances

 

[philstat]

Oh, so you're going to use an injury as an excuse for BYU, who was already sliding, but you refuse to acknowledge UK had 2 starters out?

You guys are so bad at this.

Richie Saunders was averaging 18PPG over 25 games before his injury, do you honestly believe JQ or JL were going to produce like that?!?

 

[ftp000]

I refuse to read anything written by someone so childish that they think Poop is a clever take.
Grow up.

 

[Catphright23]

Lol dumb take. We lost lowe out only pg and they lost sanders. Byu with their money hasn't done much better. Hurley didn't wanna be here enough gives a **** about hurley.The poop boy and philstat only can criticize with name calling being over negative.
Byu made it to sweet 16 and made it to 64 last year with tons more money to recruit. We both had injuries both years. Don't think that's better. Uconn got a good class won two championship, and still are clinging on to that class. With their senior white guy, after this year I'll like to see how they do. Sometimes that's all it takes see Florida Noah, hortford etc.

 

[kyjeff1]

Yeah Jeff, ole Pope is going to do what BH has done win multiple titles and get in another FF getting ready to win his third in the past decade, yeah, that’s going to be Pope…

You can't even call out the right Hurley brother. Bobby hasn’t done sh*t.

Go look through Pope's 11 year career, what was his best year? I know the answer, you do too, but you won't say it, because it means you're wrong.

 

[philstat]

You can't even call out the right Hurley brother. Bobby hasn’t done sh*t.

Go look through Pope's 11 year career, what was his best year? I know the answer, you do too, but you won't say it, because it means you're wrong.

That was my fault meant to say DH.

 

[kyjeff1]

This is a stretch. UKs win % is down 3+% from the final 2 Calipari years. All those amazing wins got a S16 and R32 blowout. Means **** all in the long run. The program is in a clear decline.

Who cares about winning percentage. Did you factor SOS into that? You obviously didn’t. UK had the #3 SOS last year, win percentages go out the window when one coach plays a gauntlet and the other plays cupcakes.

Just like I told you yesterday, stop trying to post facts you know nothing about, they keep blowing up in your face, yet you never learn.

 

[TheApostleSaulSmith]

Hurley comparison makes no sense. Never has. His teams improved every season (barring the Covid year), and then he won it all his 5th and 6th years there. If we were better this year than last year, people wouldn’t be cliff jumping.

y’all probably assume I’ve always been a Pope hater but I was on board the first year. It ended poorly but there were definitely bright spots. I was bored of Cal so Pope and that opening press conference actually reinvigorated my fandom a lot.

But early on in this season, somewhere in the atrocious Gonzaga-Louisville-MSU stretch of stinkers, it became abundantly clear to me that he’s not the guy. He’s just not. And it’s a pointless waste of a season to try and run it back with him. We need a rebuild to return to elite status. Every year with Pope, we’re postponing that.

 

[20MRoster]

Who cares about winning percentage. Did you factor SOS into that? You obviously didn’t. UK had the #3 SOS last year, win percentages go out the window when one coach plays a gauntlet and the other plays cupcakes.

Just like I told you yesterday, stop trying to post facts you know nothing about, they keep blowing up in your face, yet you never learn.

And UK got blown out in the R32. All those tough games really prepped them, huh?