The stick is to cut off federal funding from schools that do not comply. Will likely be challenged and overturned, but supposedly goes into effect August 1. Let’s try to stick to this singular topic if anyone cares to discuss.
FC/OT/Highly Flammable: Trump signs executive order to limit transfers in college football.
- Thread starter Midnighter
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I think it's theoretically a step in the right direction...but likely need congress to get involved to give it more teeth (a lot of questioning if/how it would hold up in court).
But, I also think there still needs to be some exceptions in there for coaching changes and "processing". Player signs with school A out of high school, the coach gets fired, so he heads elsewhere for his second season. If that coach subsequently gets let go, not sure if it makes sense to force him/her to sit out a season. And even more so, think they need to protect players that get processed...if a coach brings in a transfer then decides he's ready to move on from him, should that kid really need to sit out as they head elsewhere? I don't think so.
So I applaud Trump for trying to do something...but certainly will need more to get to a sustainable end state.
But, I also think there still needs to be some exceptions in there for coaching changes and "processing". Player signs with school A out of high school, the coach gets fired, so he heads elsewhere for his second season. If that coach subsequently gets let go, not sure if it makes sense to force him/her to sit out a season. And even more so, think they need to protect players that get processed...if a coach brings in a transfer then decides he's ready to move on from him, should that kid really need to sit out as they head elsewhere? I don't think so.
So I applaud Trump for trying to do something...but certainly will need more to get to a sustainable end state.
I'm the furthest thing from a constitutional scholar but it seems to me the government has no authority to force rules onto a private entity. I know they're trying to use the awarding and receipt of federal grants as their authority, but the NCAA doesn't receive that money. The administration expects it to be overturned but they did it anyway. More waste of the court's time.
Enforcement through withholding Federal Funding seems like a precarious slope. The parameters are what everyone says they want But that’s the easy part.
Only one transfer is good. Jumping to a new school every year will ruin college sports.
So, he's attacking the rights of the student-athletes (to transfer freely, and reducing eligibility), and coercing the schools to comply with these restrictions on the labor market via threats of withholding funds for education.
Financially coercing one party to force them to restrict the rights of other parties, when this isn't even something within his power ... par for the course. And, by par, I mean, he shot 10 over, but told them he shot a 4.
And this will almost assuredly blow up in everyone's faces worse than the previous attempts to illegally restrain markets did.
This can be handled only through a tightrope of Congressionally-approved legislation, or the "unionization" of the student-athletes, followed by a collective bargaining agreement. That's where it's at, whether it's what people want, or not.
Financially coercing one party to force them to restrict the rights of other parties, when this isn't even something within his power ... par for the course. And, by par, I mean, he shot 10 over, but told them he shot a 4.
And this will almost assuredly blow up in everyone's faces worse than the previous attempts to illegally restrain markets did.
This can be handled only through a tightrope of Congressionally-approved legislation, or the "unionization" of the student-athletes, followed by a collective bargaining agreement. That's where it's at, whether it's what people want, or not.
The tie between professional sports and NFP universities needs to be severed. No sense trying to preserve a failed and corrupt system. Terminate the tax exemption and treat college football and basketball as the minor
League sports system that it is.
League sports system that it is.
It is a step in the right direction and I agree about a few more transfer exceptions. I do like limiting time to play. The few instances of 6-9 yrs in college should not be happening. Also agree the only way there is any chance of real changes is through federal legislation. Certainly there will be court challenges.
I think we all know the coercion of funds withholding will not fly in court. I think his EO is more of an attempt to sound the alarm more loudly and bring sanity back, pethaps through federal legislation.
It's sounding alarms. And sanity is involved.
Again, the most troubling part of this disaster is that he's not even directly harming the people he wants to harm (the student-athletes) ... he's forcing others to harm them on his behalf. The second most troubling part of this disaster is that his solution is to harm the student-athletes, and provide them with no offsetting benefit. It's just a straight "eff dem kids."
The likely outcome of this EO is to make things worse, as it will get challenged in court, and the likely ramifications of a court decision will muddy the waters even more.
If the NCAA hadn’t screwed this up from the beginning we wouldn’t be in this spot now. Maybe this will start a serious discussion in putting limits to this mess.
Can’t imagine it will do much considering the lengths many states are passing legislation to allow for as much freedom and flexibility with NIL as possible. He’s gonna be dead in three years anyway.
It essentially gives the president the power to be a dictator, so there's that.
how? if you accept that players deserve compensation, how can that be limited or regulated in our economic system?
"He’s gonna be dead in three years anyway."
The bullets mostly keep missing him though. It must leave you w/ an empty feeling inside.
The bullets mostly keep missing him though. It must leave you w/ an empty feeling inside.
It does hit all the points that are needed to keep college football more like college football. Someone asked well what if you transfer in and your coach leaves. Well, I had that happen when I went to Starbucks. My east coast rvp moved to another division literally the day that I started. I Went there to be developed by him to get to the regional level. Guess what, I stayed and still moved up. So for college kids I would say you make a decision with all the what ifs in mind. Can’t start down the path of exceptions.
I'm going to mark down what Trump did as a good thing not because of the thing itself, but rather because he did something. Whether it will stand up in court is a separate issue. (I'm not sure how public universities running professional sports stands up in court, but that's a separate issue.) At least it's something and it will get a reaction, and the reaction will get a reaction, etc.
IMO, at this point anything is better than nothing, regardless of what the "anything" is.
IMO, at this point anything is better than nothing, regardless of what the "anything" is.
Problem is this punishes schools and not players. They are the one in need of serious guardrails and right now they have none. And this will almost certainly be laughed out of the courts on the first challenge. I get that maybe it’s a big ‘HEY GUYS! THIS SYSTEM IS BUSTED!’ cry for legislation, but there are too many incentives for things to continue as is. They need to fully professionalize college athletics - period.
I agree that fully professionalizing college sports would ultimately be a good thing.
That is the sad part. Lawyers always screwing it up. If under another Morgan and Morgan commercial I’ll scream. My mom whom doesn’t communicate that much anymore will yell out Morgan and Mack? name during that commercial in state college. She yells it like rain man.
The NCAA can make rules but when people take the NCAA over their rules and the courts rule against the NCAA, the NCAA rules become irrelevant. We have NIL now not because the NCAA made a rule permitting it.
It DOESN'T punish schools ... it threatens schools with a punishment IF AND ONLY IF they don't punish the players (whilst also benefitting the schools, so there's multiple reasons for the schools to comply with the coercion).
I just saw a guy in Starbucks wearing a University of Chicago shirt. They had the right idea, and they were so far ahead of their time.
A person can transfer as many times they want to go to school. This order attempts to protect college sports.
My advisor at Maryland had tenure at Michigan before moving to Maryland. I asked him why he moved. One: his wife got offered a position at NIH. Two: he couldn’t stand the way Michigan glorified athletics.I just saw a guy in Starbucks wearing a University of Chicago shirt. They had the right idea, and they were so far ahead of their time.
Since Greg Manning and Randy White graduated, and Len Bias died, they certainly aren't glorifying athletics at umD. If they are, no one is noticing.
Nothing happening in college sports justifies pulling federal funding from universities. Frankly, college football, basketball and any other sport isn't that important. Send a grant to a university because they are researching something which could provide a public benefit, that's it. Whether Joe Twinketoes transfers from one university to another is irrelevant. Most of them don't even go to classes anymore.
So, allowing students, who may or may not also be athletes, to transfer as many times as they want has destroyed college edumacation?
No, this “protects” professional sports disguised as college sports via illegal means. If they want to restrict labor movement, it needs to be contractual (either individual or via a collective agreement).
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Not that this EO will work but should college players be allowed to get NIL, absolutely ( not just being paid like what’s happening now though). Should there be a limit on eligibility, again yes, absolutely (6 years to play 4 IMO and Juco counts). Should transfers be limited, absolutely NOT. Regular students can transfer multiple times and if you allow coaches to jump ship every couple years then the kids should be able to as well.
Isn't this almost exactly the situation D1 athletes were in for 100 years, without an apocalypse happening? Could this action be a statement of "If it ain't broke..."?
I think there's a way that NIL and college athletics as we knew it CAN coexist, and perhaps enforcing the notion of being a student at a university is not a bad thing.
How many NON athletes do you know have transfered colleges 3 or 4 times??? I don't know any. I know ppl who transfered because their family moved, for a cheaper school because finances changed, or for a poor fit. None of them transfered multiple times.
So this may not be a bad thing even if it's not the best way to implement it as opposed to legislative action.
So coaches can’t jump ship, but that also means universities can’t fire them at the drop of a hat either.
It was broke. It had been broke. You could look back at any injustice that existed (we can get extreme here and mention slavery, women not voting, etc.) for a period of time and say "well, there hasn't been an apocalypse, so why change?" Right is right, no matter for how long it's been wrong.
I'm a leading proponent of "student first." In fact, my views are so extreme, that I believe every prospective student-athlete should first have to apply and be admitted, with the admissions office being blind to the fact that they're an athlete ... before a coach can reach out to a kid to try to convince him to attend his school. And students should only have 4 years to compete, with those years ending no later than at age 22. But, given that that's not going to happen, we have to deal with the hand we're dealt.
But this ("this" being this EO and the general sentiment of many interested parties) isn't about "student first." This is about schools and fans getting what they want, at the expense of the student-athlete. Schools want to convince kids to go there, and know that they basically have them locked in for as long as they want them (and can kick them to the curb whenever they want), so they have roster certainty. Fans want to be able to root for the same kids for a number of years, so it feels more "personal" and they can grow a rooting attachment, pretending that the kids share something with them, even though it's an illusion. But above all else, they want the highest quality product that brings in the most money.
It's not about the kids' education ... it hasn't been for many, many decades. I'm not going to relitigate this, but that was true even when your avatar was in charge ... kids on the team stated that they were told, regardless of their grades, they'd pass if they just showed up to class. And, as a rule (and, yes, rules have exceptions ... no need to point out that so and so was a math genius, and so and so accomplished this or that in life), these kids aren't graduating with meaningful degrees in challenging majors, anyway. Sociology, advertising/marketing, etc. In large part because the workload required to be successful in a major college sport is too hard to manage, while also navigating through a challenging major. In fact, various college sports typically "outlaw" kids from taking certain majors, because they're too time-consuming and/or they may have extra work that could conflict with training/practice. It was always humorous to hear commentary about so and so is majoring in Finance (a basic, acceptable major with a pretty pedestrian workload), so you know he's intelligent ... highlighting just how much of an exception he was.
I know a few, but not many. How many students do you know that went to a school because they thought they were going to get to study something, but then, when they enrolled, the school said they couldn't ... or they went there for the professors, and then all the professors left while they were enrolled there ... or they went there to study something, and then the admissions office recruited someone the next year to study over them? And so on. The point being, it's not an apples to apples comparison. The reality is, though, that students DO have that choice. Without any penalty or artificial restraint.
It's doing absolutely nothing to rein in the professionalization of college sports, allowing the powers that be to continue using these kids to make a whole lot of money, and it's taking away one of the few abilities that the exploited kid just obtained, to make the system a bit less exploitive.
The system IS screwed up. The solution isn't to attack the kids (and threatening the schools to make them comply in this), but to go after those in power, reaping the most rewards, to force them to fix it.
They deserve compensation but the NCAA fought it instead of trying to manage it fairly for all parties bit instead dug in their heels and lost and now we are where we are.