No wonder a lot of these guys prefer Free over Folk.

Jun 26, 2025
937
966
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The absurdity of Folk Officiating on full display at these Championships. Folk Official after Folk Official rewarding obvious passive tactics and the defensive wrestler thereby effectively penalizing the more active wrestler (the diametric opposite of what the fundamental rules of wrestling prescribe). We saw it over and over and over again.

How about the utterly absurd stalemate the mat Official called in Van Ness' match as Shane was sliding his ankle free??? (How is that not one wrestler still improving his scoring position??? Not to mention that it was like the 4th Van Ness shot and deep penetration that Swiderski had defensively stalemated without a stall call.) The Refs antics clearly were benefitting Swiderski who was beyond question wrestling in a purely defensive and passive manner.

Did anyone else catch Burroughs answer to the "Does Folk make you a better Freestyle wrestler or does Freestyle make you a better Folk wrestler?"? Burroughs without hesitation immediately said Freestyle without question makes you the better Folk wrestler, and better wrestler overall, because it teaches you that you have to learn to score from the center of the mat.... Free teaches you that you can not use passivity and the edge of the mat as a defensive crutch and security blanket because you will lose every time doing this in Free.... he said it taught him that you need to go out and "win matches" from the center of the mat with your offense.
 

Kingslayer

Junior
Nov 3, 2016
178
365
63
The absurdity of Folk Officiating on full display at these Championships. Folk Official after Folk Official rewarding obvious passive tactics and the defensive wrestler thereby effectively penalizing the more active wrestler (the diametric opposite of what the fundamental rules of wrestling prescribe). We saw it over and over and over again.

How about the utterly absurd stalemate the mat Official called in Van Ness' match as Shane was sliding his ankle free??? (How is that not one wrestler still improving his scoring position??? Not to mention that it was like the 4th Van Ness shot and deep penetration that Swiderski had defensively stalemated without a stall call.) The Refs antics clearly were benefitting Swiderski who was beyond question wrestling in a purely defensive and passive manner.

Did anyone else catch Burroughs answer to the "Does Folk make you a better Freestyle wrestler or does Freestyle make you a better Folk wrestler?"? Burroughs without hesitation immediately said Freestyle without question makes you the better Folk wrestler, and better wrestler overall, because it teaches you that you have to learn to score from the center of the mat.... Free teaches you that you can not use passivity and the edge of the mat as a defensive crutch and security blanket because you will lose every time doing this in Free.... he said it taught him that you need to go out and "win matches" from the center of the mat with your offense.
I grew up wrestling folk in the 80’s and never wrestled freestyle or was that familiar it but started watching it 10 years ago and quickly became a fan of it more so than folk. Folk should adapt the push out and get rid of the ride outs
 

shotofespresso

Sophomore
Nov 7, 2021
55
145
33
Just eliminate reaction time and give 3 points of contact and move on.
We’ll get dumb takedowns just the same but at least they’ll be objectively dumb rather than just rolling the dice on a review.
Even if there is some additional TDs with this, that will ultimately open up the guy that fell behind and cause more action the rest of the match..
 

donboy6499

All-Conference
Jun 9, 2025
741
1,402
93
Even if there is some additional TDs with this, that will ultimately open up the guy that fell behind and cause more action the rest of the match..
Exactly.
We just saw a guy have a takedown overturned that, like Willie said, is what they teach is a takedown in 4th grade.
Just make objective criteria, deal with that dumbness and move on.
 
Jun 26, 2025
937
966
93
Just eliminate reaction time and give 3 points of contact and move on.
We’ll get dumb takedowns just the same but at least they’ll be objectively dumb rather than just rolling the dice on a review.

Wouldn't be dumb anyway - at least it is rewarding the correct wrestler. This is why Freestyle has objective rules on scoring such as exposing your back w/o control. If the defensive wrestler knows the rule (such as using your hand as a 3rd point of support - an incidental hand brush can be written out of rules by stating it has to be used as a clear 3rd point of support). A rule granting a TD the instant the Offensive wrestler touches the 2nd leg when Defensive wrestler is all or partially OB and attempting to flee the mat area further... At least they're rewarding the correct wrestler, not the Defensive wrestler attempting to flea the mat! The defensive wrestler shouldn't be attempting to flee the mat if they know that's the rule.
 
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MacwoodFleetPSU

All-Conference
Sep 9, 2022
966
3,633
93
Wouldn't be dumb anyway - at least it is rewarding the correct wrestler. This is why Freestyle has objective rules on scoring such as exposing your back w/o control. If the defensive wrestler knows the rule (such as using your hand as a 3rd point of support - an incidental hand brush can be written out of rules by stating it has to be used as a clear 3rd point of support). A rule granting a TD the instant the Offensive wrestler touches the 2nd leg when Defensive wrestler is all or partially OB and attempting to flee the mat area further... At least they're rewarding the correct wrestler, not the Defensive wrestler attempting to flea the mat! The defensive wrestler shouldn't be attempting to flee the mat if they know that's the rule.
The refereeing in free is consistently much worse than in folk. Like, not even close
 

WEAREPSU_LI

All-Conference
Feb 15, 2019
450
1,595
93
I was never a huge freestyle fan, but after the lack of stalling calls all season, I am fast becoming a fan.
Free is really fun to watch and get into because scoring is emphasized and stalling comes with very quick punishment. Folk is great too when you have guys that go out and compete, but far too many stall and finger fight. It's not fun to watch all the time whereas free is consistently more entertaining.
 
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PAgeologist

All-Conference
Oct 19, 2021
1,397
2,869
113
Free is really fun to watch and get into because scoring is emphasized and stalling comes with very quick punishment. Folk is great too when you have guys that go out and compete, but far too many stall and finger fight. It's not fun to watch all the time whereas free is consistently more entertaining.
Again, the rules are in place to fix folk. The refs refuse to use them. Just call stalling. Finger grabbing, stalling. Not trying to score, stalling. Backing up, stalling.
 

zzs006

All-Conference
Mar 27, 2017
791
4,502
93
Freestyle is the much better product. All the things this board complains about nonstop (wrestling from a knee, edge wrestling, stalling, what is a td) do not exist in free. Also no dumbass ride outs. I love both styles and as a competitor my best position was top but I much preferred freestyle then and still do
 
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AgSurfer

All-Conference
Aug 9, 2013
616
1,899
92
I would like freestyle more if they returned to the older rules that allowed more mat wrestling. The current version is basically just a takedown contest.
 
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Conewago

Freshman
Jul 10, 2017
24
92
13
Exactly.
We just saw a guy have a takedown overturned that, like Willie said, is what they teach is a takedown in 4th grade.
Just make objective criteria, deal with that dumbness and move on.
My problem is, if these slovenly and incompetent people can't correctly officiate folkstyle as is, how many other rules are we going to have to change for them?

For F's sake, why is it so hard to teach this stuff? I used to officiate local JV and elementary wrestling. I wasn't a great ref but I did my best. Even at the lowest levels, the senior refs who helped me were far more serious about education than the NCAA strikes me. I would love to know how the evaluation process works.
 

donboy6499

All-Conference
Jun 9, 2025
741
1,402
93
My problem is, if these slovenly and incompetent people can't correctly officiate folkstyle as is, how many other rules are we going to have to change for them?

For F's sake, why is it so hard to teach this stuff? I used to officiate local JV and elementary wrestling. I wasn't a great ref but I did my best. Even at the lowest levels, the senior refs who helped me were far more serious about education than the NCAA strikes me. I would love to know how the evaluation process works.
Yeah all of this.

They way way way overthink this stuff. They let the action after impact the action they’re judging. It’s bad.
 

a_mshaffer

Senior
Dec 8, 2014
335
489
63
I thought freestyle was a good post season - done losing weight - activity. Seems like a takedown tourney. The biggest issue with freestyle is the silly ankle lace or other moves where you can continuously roll and finish the match.
 
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