Penn State Wrestling Is LOADED for Nationals | Breaking Down All 7 Big Ten Champions
- Thread starter TFrankCarr
- Start date
Guys,
Minto was called for an illegal lock (figure 4) against Levi at 174lbs. In my opinion, that was a tough call. If they didn't call it, I would not be upset, but they did and it is what it is now.
Minto was called for an illegal lock (figure 4) against Levi at 174lbs. In my opinion, that was a tough call. If they didn't call it, I would not be upset, but they did and it is what it is now.
I don't disagree. Where I was seated at the BJC, watching it live, I couldn't have an opinion. Did watch the replay this morning and I agree with you.
he locked without question.. was it dangerous? probably not.. but it is the rule.. if you aren't going to call it.. then don't have the rule in place..
No different than locked hands or full nelson. If mat judge doesn't see it, it doesn't get called. Ref not in pos9or PSU corner to see it.
It is a common criticism that the second official never does anything, yet when they do, some fans and coaches view it as almost an overreach by the second official. You can't have it both ways. And that official definitely didn't deserve the scorn and anger heaped on him, especially by Manning.
What ticked off the Nebraska coaches,especially Snyder was the Asst. Official initiated the call. Snyder got in his face big time at the end of the match .
Last edited:
That is what the assistant official is there for. Many times the assistant is the one who calls locked hands. Brian Snyder knows this, but the way he acted, he had a previous grudge against that specific official.
If you have wrestled you have had a few calls like this go against you and received a few too. As someone already posted, if you are not going to call it, get rid of the rule. No doubt tough way to lose, but ***** happen
If it isn't called, the result is still the same ... Levi finds a way to win.
Nothing overly tough about the call. It is obvious as hell on the replay to the point that if seen it is a no brainer call.
Even after the call, Minto never made an effort to score so there is that.
Even after the call, Minto never made an effort to score so there is that.
Last edited:
This makes me wonder if coaching staffs discuss among themselves who should be āthe good cop/ bad copā in regards to officials. Obviously T & T havenāt had that discussion.
It's because he Figure-4'ed his head via his neck - it absolutely was an Illegal move. You are allowed to Figure 4 a leg for example. He wasn't called for an Illegal lock - he was called for an Illegal Hold (specifically Figure 4'ing the head and it is every bit the Illegal Hold that a Full Nelson or Illegal Choke Hold such as some headlocks are). So again, he was not called for an illegal lock - figure 4's are legal. He was called for an Illegal Hold (Figure 4'ing the head specifically) - no different than any other Illegal Hold such as a Full Nelson or Illegal Headlock (headlock that is done across the neck/throat and can cause chocking).
It absolutely was an Illegal Hold as the Video Review confirmed.
Last edited:
āWeāre going to hang, and we shouldnāt.ā
āYeah, but think of all the times we should have hung, and we didnāt!ā
Mutiny on the Bounty
I really don't think it was an obscure call at all - Minto was called for an "Illegal Hold" (Figure-4'ing the head - figure-4'ing as a type of bar is not illegal, it is only illegal when applied to head or neck area) - very straight forward Illegal Hold call, no different than a Full Nelson. I would disagree that Illegal Hold calls are not usually called - as a matter of course, Illegal Holds are almost always called as soon as they occur (i.e., protocol is that the match is immediately stopped, a point is awarded to offended wrestler and then a restart).
well if the 2nd ref was correct he was just doing his job!take a seat manning!-
You are correct about it being called an illegal hold and not an illegal lock, so thanks for the long response as too I was not arguing that it is not illegal, if fact, I am not arguing at all. What I am saying is if they didn't call it, I would not be all that upset because it was so quick that I didn't even see it until they showed it on replay. What I ment by "it is what it is now" was directed towards any Nebby fans that might venture onto this website because that is the rule. Good thing we have those eyes on our bench looking for those things. I am glad the call went our way lol. It was icing on top because of how Manning was acting. He is my #1 coach I dislike.
Good thing we have eyes on our bench looking for those things??? The Official was not alerted by our bench - the call was made by the Alternate (2nd) Official on the mat. That Official is specifically supposed to be watching for, among other things, Illegal Moves/Holds. As to it being momentary, that does not matter - illegal holds are called immediately upon happening. Locked Hands by Top-Wrestler on the mat is a good example - call is made as soon as it happens and the review is only looking to see if the hands merely touch each other to confirm the penalty. Illegal holds/moves are routinely called immediately upon happening and it doesn't matter how long they were in place.
Are you saying that if the hands merely touch each other that IS or ISNāT considered locked hands?
Also, could you please elaborate on what is or isnāt legal in this regardā¦ I understand itās illegal to lock a gutwrench in folkstyle, but why is it legal to lock a cradle or assassin? And on standing with rear control, trying to prevent escape, what is and isnāt legal?
Yes, if wrestlers are on the mat, it is locking hands if the hands even touch/overlap without locking. It is legal to lock hands on mat if it is in association with a pinning combination. Legal to lock hands when in rear-standing position attempting to return the other wrestler to the mat - however you must release hands upon hitting mat.
What the hell is your problem? You could just say no, the Alt Referee made the call. I was unaware that our bench were not the ones that called it out. I have zero issues admitting I was incorrect on things like that. I stated a couple times I am not arguing that it is not illegal because I clearly stated that it is ILLEGAL. You are choosing to be a douche bag about it. I know the Alt Ref specifically looks for those things. Yet, here you are, going over the rules book as if I do not know them. I will say it again, and perhaps this will finally get through to you and hopefully you take a step back. IT. WAS. ILLEGAL. THE. CALL. WAS. CORRECT. I. AM. NOT. AGAINST. IT.
LMAO, this is a direct quote from your OP:
Hhhhmmm...... BTW, I am not the party being the douchebag - I'm merely correcting your multiple inaccurate statements regarding the call (it is not a rare or obscure call when an Illegal Move/Hold is applied - the instant it is applied, calling an Illegal Move/Hold has zero to do with how long it has been applied - it only has to do with whether it was applied, our bench had ZERO to do with the Official's call or alerting him to the call and the call was not remotely controversial regardless of what opinion visiting Nebby fans wish to express.).
You clearly implied it was a marginal call and a ticky-tack call at best in your OP and that simply is not the case. Again, just clearing up some significant inaccuracies in your original post and responses...
Hhhhmmm, lets actually type what I said then.
Here is the original post:
"Guys,
Minto was called for an illegal lock (figure 4) against Levi at 174lbs. In my opinion, that was a tough call. If they didn't call it, I would not be upset, but they did and it is what it is now."
Here is a response from me you are referring to:
"What I am saying is if they didn't call it, I would not be all that upset because it was so quick that I didn't even see it until they showed it on replay. What I ment by "it is what it is now" was directed towards any Nebby fans that might venture onto this website because that is the rule."
Now, lets dive into what I AM "implying" vs what you are trying to say that I am implying.
Original Post- It was a tough call, meaning I do not like seeing a match determined by something like this (it sucks) but it happens and that is wrestling.
If they did not call it, I would not be upset because I did not see it UNTIL replay. They did call it and it is what it is now. Meaning the call is correct and it is what it is now.
So, instead of taking the path you took, you could have instead asked a simple question. Like, What do you mean? or What you are implying?
You are clearly hosting the party committing douchebagery LOL.
Again, I have no issue admitting I was incorrect to your version of the (2) or "multiple" "significant inaccuracies". It was an Illegal Hold not an Illegal Lock. I hope I never make that horrible mistake again, whew. I mistakenly said good thing we have those eyes on our bench, or something along those lines. Call the FBI to investigate these multiple and "significant inaccuracies".
I hope this clears it up enough for you.
So now I have to keep two window open on my phone because the app is wonky but add free and i can post GIF. The website is easier for forum use and that all i use it for but no GIF what the actual he'll
In my memory Casey Cunningham signaled it first, and the alternate, who was standing in front of him, signaled a close second. Was he somewhat notified by hearing Casey say something? I do not know.
If you review the tape and see the second official signal first it might just be because I noticed Casey first.
If you review the tape and see the second official signal first it might just be because I noticed Casey first.
Last edited:
I only watched on BTN. The only thing it shows is the Asst Official begins waiving his arms to stop the action and moves directly toward the wrestlers making Illegal Move/Hold Signal when he makes the call (I assume he is also blowing his whistle although I couldn't hear it on broadcast until he got main Mat Official's attention and he blew his whistle stopping the action.).
Manning immediately came running in throwing a tantrum and yelling "that's ********" over and over. The BTN announcers, primarily Gibbons and Johnson I believe, were confidently saying that Manning's primary beef was that the Asst Official made the call and was questioning how the main Official could make a call he clearly didn't even see. The main Mat Official gave Manning his Red Brick back and said it was going to be treated as an "Official's Review" since he didn't see it and call was made by Asst Official. The call was "Confirmed on Review" as Minto clearly sets the Figure-4 around Haines' neck by lacing the off leg over the ankle of the figure-4'ing leg. The Asst Official appears to make the call as soon as he sees the Illegal Move/Hold occur (which is the protocol for an Illegal Move/Hold - stoppage is immediate and it is called regardless if the offending wrestler immediately abandons it - btw, it appears that one of the reasons Minto abandons it is because the Asst Official goes into action the moment he sees it). But it really doesn't matter why Minto abandoned it because just like any Illegal Move/Hold (such as Locked Hands), how long it was applied has zero relevance to the call - the call is made the instant the Illegal Move/Hold is applied without regard for how long it is applied.
Cannot hear or see CC doing anything on main BTN broadcast or on the replays - not saying he didn't but nothing you can hear or see on BTN broadcast and BTN broadcasters made no mention of PSU's Staff doing anything in regards to call.
I think you need to do some more clarifications for yourself sport. You forgot the inaccurate statement that implies the length of time Minto applied the Illegal Move/Hold has anything to do with the call or whether it should have been made.
How long an Illegal Move/Hold is applied is irrelevant to the call - Illegal Move/Hold is an immediate call.... and action is stopped. It is utterly irrelevant how long the Illegal Move/Hold was applied. Locked Hands is a good example - a call is made even if it is momentary touching (i.e., hands touch/overlap momentarily and never even lock together - the call will be made and it will be upheld on Video Review if the replay shows the hands touch each other even if the hands never lock together.).
I cleared everything up for you. I cannot help it that you are to dense to comprehend everything that has been addressed and cleared up. Perhaps in the future you can grow the testicular fortitude to admit where you could have done better. Just like I did multiple times. I hope you can prove me wrong, but I have my doubts that you are capable of achieving such, sport.
Enjoy the greatest sports dynasty, ever! I know I will.
I don't think anyone mentioned that the figure-4 (it is illegal) helped Minto to hang on and adjust his position every so slightly during that scramble, to prevent the takedown at that moment - watch it. At first I thought - good move locking that leg (by Minto) and then the ref called it. My 2 cents.I cleared everything up for you. I cannot help it that you are to dense to comprehend everything that has been addressed and cleared up. Perhaps in the future you can grow the testicular fortitude to admit where you could have done better. Just like I did multiple times. I hope you can prove me wrong, but I have my doubts that you are capable of achieving such, sport.
Enjoy the greatest sports dynasty, ever! I know I will.
