Coaches "haven't seen the numbers" just like the rest of us.
Live updates: Big Ten wrestling preseeds release on BTN
- Thread starter GregPickel
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Coaches "haven't seen the numbers" just like the rest of us.
My guess is guys not wrestling against Haines really hurt him. Hurts him in common opponents record, quality matches and rpi.
Anyone else think Levi/Minto is their 1 intentional “mess up” so on Friday they can demonstrate their willingness to make a single correction?
Yeah, that is truly stunning to me, but I also beleive it.
Levi is definitely within 15 points of Minto
Blaze is definitely within 15 points of Caliendo
Not sure why they didn't just change those with the head to head that happened instead of putting out nonsense
Blaze is definitely within 15 points of Caliendo
Not sure why they didn't just change those with the head to head that happened instead of putting out nonsense
Wow. I’m sure Cael will be challenging. Levi should definitely be #1 seed at 174. Seems like a no brainer.
When somebody mentioned wrestlestat, I thought it was a joke, a gag, anything but serious. Whoever thought it was a good idea to associate ANY official rankings, characterizations, or other things that actually matter with wrestlestat should step aside. If it turns out that the coaches were involved, then maybe the gym teacher stereotypes are not too far off.
Then why not give all our guys the 11 seed, so their paths include the 6, 3, 2, and 1?
Seeds matter. If nothing else, bad seeds degrade the product.
Not much difference but this one is as ridiculous as Minto. Blaze is undefeated, beat Caliendo and Caliendo has 2 in conference losses.
At 174, not only does Minto have 2 in conference losses but they were to seeds 2 and 3 while Levi is undefeated Kennedy has 2 in conference losses, but beat Minto head to head.
Yeah. I was thinking joke also. But it is rather obvious they used a joke to seed the tournament.
The only way Levi misses on the math determination is the 5-0 against the field. If a ranking system penalizes the guy who toed the line, while someone ducked him find a different gosh darned system.
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BTW, scapegoating Wrestlestat doesn't work here. Any computer spits out bad results from a bad equation. Garbage in, garbage out.
B10 is at fault here.
B10 is at fault here.
Yes. As others have alluded to above, I think Haines lost points in Quality matches and RPI through no fault of his own.
This is the downside of letting an algorithm do the seeding. Duke gets screwed because both Cannon and Voinovich are criminally underseeded at 7 and 10.
I invited him to the Saturday tailgate between sessions. He is a hoot to hang out with.
It's not H2H vs the individual, in which case that category would've been 25-0 for Levi.
It's "H2H vs the field," meaning W-L record vs the other 13 registrants. Presumably those 25 pts were split with Minto in some way that B10 never described.
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While I have no way of knowing, the only way I can get to the seeds that the computer spat out at 174 is to treat the first category, HTH vs. filed as being purely the number of wins, not winning percentage. If the former, Pinto wins at 7-3 while Levi is only 5-0 due to OSU, Indiana and Iowa not wrestling their starter against him. Thus, he is punished for being ducked, not ducking.
If that is the case, Levi would not be within 15 of Minto -- Minto HTH 25, QW 10, RPI 10, Coaches 2, AQ 5 -- Levi Big 10 Duals -- 20, Coaches 3, AQ 5. Minto lost to Levi, Facundo, Kennedy and Kharchla. Levi didn't wrestle any of them, so no differences in common opponent.
If the above is correct, the result is Minto 52, Levi 28.
If that is the case, Levi would not be within 15 of Minto -- Minto HTH 25, QW 10, RPI 10, Coaches 2, AQ 5 -- Levi Big 10 Duals -- 20, Coaches 3, AQ 5. Minto lost to Levi, Facundo, Kennedy and Kharchla. Levi didn't wrestle any of them, so no differences in common opponent.
If the above is correct, the result is Minto 52, Levi 28.
That's what I don't understand. If you know it's wrong and going to be challenged, just change it and save the embarassment.
That one is a huge deal since there are 3 world class hammers in the weight class.
Pj' Duke can beat a healthy Cannon let a lone a guy who hasn't wrestle in 5 weeks.
That's where an algorithm fails. No common sense to balance the mathematical oversight.
I'm guessing this is the first and last time this system is used. If you're going to have a matrix like this, then the coaches' ranking should be at least 50% or let Claude do it, not a "dumb" algorithm like Wrestlestat.
I just wonder why they let Wrestlestat do it in the first place.
The biggest problems are that it did not include HTH, largest component in NCAA seedings; it appears that it weighted wins over the field higher than winning percentage -- I'd rather be 5-0 with 3 other wins against backups than 6-2; basically ignored coaches ranking by splitting it 3/2 for anyone with a rank thereby making it 10% of RPI.
Also, curious if they used NCAA RPI or WrestleStat RPI, which are close but differ.
Also, curious if they used NCAA RPI or WrestleStat RPI, which are close but differ.
Penn State wrestling coach Cael Sanderson blasts new Big Ten Championships preseeding process: 'What happened isn't going to work, right?'
Penn State wrestling coach Cael Sanderson is not a fan of the new Big Ten Championships pre-seeding process. Read why here.
I don't profess to know the process the Big Ten uses to make the seeding happen and I do know that they are offering the caveat that a"challenge" element is available. What I also know, and I'm guessing they don't, is that they embarrass themselves by utilizing a process that misrepresents the best of intentions (i.e.: Haines; Rocco, P.J.) of wrestlers who met the call of duty and wrestled every opponent put in front of them. I get all the philosophical bent of you must beat all to win the ring, but the Big Ten should want to stand above a shoddy approach.
If you ask AI to seed wrestlers, it will 100% put Hulk Hogan in a bracket somewhere.
So thinking about this in the context of Levi...
1. H2H v field. Levi 4-0 with 3 TFs, inc. H2H dec; Minto 6-2 with 6 dec.
2. Common opponents. W/i Big, Levi 1TF and Minto 1 Dec, v. Enright (NU)
3. Conf. dual record. Levi 8-0; Minto 6-2
4. RPI. Levi .66148 (5); Minto .70296 (1)
5. Coaches rankings/allocation. ?
Translation:
1. dafuq?
2. Apparently, ducking not only has benefits in terms of defending one's seed, but also has offensive benefits in terms of denigrating another's.
I've never been a high-end wrestler or a coach, but I really wonder about this. Cannon tweaked a knee and as a precaution had a very minor procedure done to ensure that no damage occurred. Since then, he hasn't wrestled a dual, but most would agree that he has been wrestling in the room (albeit after a few weeks' layoff). Now, for the record, I think PJ Duke will beat him if this seeding isn't challenged and changed, but I really don't know that PJ will be facing some lesser version of Cannon. I do know this, IF the seeds don't change and if Cannon wrestles PJ in the quarterfinals as a #7 seed, he's going to get roughed up. I think he COULD win the match, but he'll pay for it. Generally, I really don't think Ryan is likely or inclined to MFF him out if he's healthy (even though I AM aware that he MFF'd his son to avoid Nolf once), but in THIS CASE, I can see him doing it. Drop into the consolation bracket and take 3rd place, versus wrestling in the quarterfinals and either potentially losing (and still having to wrestle back for 3rd) or ending up really getting beaten up. I guess we'll see. It's not fair to Brandon Cannon or to PJ Duke though.
No sympathy or empathy for the coaches. You voted for a computer system. That was just negligent. Hope the "allowed" challenges are actually a thing. JFC
There won't be anybody in the Big10 sending their starter out to wrestle Penn State next year.
Seed the team 14, some where along the way the other kids will need to wrestle the Penn State kid