FC/OT: "40% of Stanford Undergrads Receive Disability Accommodations" - any HS or college teachers/profs/administrators on this board?

Midnighter

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Jan 22, 2021
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Found this fascinating as my daughter (currently in sixth grade) is starting to get swept up in this a bit as she transitions from her 'middle school' to 'intermediate' (her independent school has four units - Lower School (K-3), Middle (4-6), Intermediate (7-8), and Upper (9-12)). The stakes get higher and there are big academic changes she will have to deal with. She is a very good student and diligent worker and meets with a math specialist once a week (through the school that we pay for) to maintain her understanding and fluency of the math they are learning. It has worked very well; outside of the first 'test' of the year (which she got a C on), she has received all A's. It is a very rigorous academic program that moves very fast. We like the additional touchpoint during the week since it forces her to do extra practice. But, with the transition to Intermediate School, extra support/tutoring during the week (in the formal sense (through the school instead of on our own)) requires more formal documentation by way of a psychological/learning analysis. Getting this documented would allow for the formal support to continue in addition to access to additional accommodations (calculator, extra time on tests, etc.). My daughter has noticed many of her friends already have these accommodations despite being smart kids (most very, very wealthy too) and prefers not to have accommodations believing she can succeed without them. So, we are punting on any formal evaluation for now and seeing how she does in IS. All this to say I am absolutely not shocked students at one of the best universities in the world are 'gaming' the system (not all to be sure, but most of that 40% I would wager) to get an advantage. Will add how completely eye opening it is to see very wealthy/powerful families get their kids into top colleges despite them being non-spectacular at our school (helps when your parents are alums and sit on the elite boards of top universities). The rich will stay rich folks.

Would appreciate thoughts/comments from educators/administrators here - what do you see? Note the 'disability accommodation' rate for community colleges is 4%.
 

razpsu

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Jan 13, 2004
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Absolutely ridiculous. Two of my daughters in college at psu and Duke. They finished 1 and 5 in their class. 3rd daughter graduating this year. She is 11th in her class and going to psu. Funny thing is the students have to ask where they stand now as schools even in the south are going away from rankings. Imagine that in football. lol.
It comes down to the parent and what you instill in your kids and your example and what you challenge your kids on, my kids would never subscribe to not being challenged! They did always say that, when assigned in groups they would be really ticked off that they had to do extra work to make up for students that wouldn’t do a thing.
So funny thing. At shreyers, the dean as well at Duke said you have to challenge yourself now as all of you were at the top of your class. At Duke, the dean said look around you. Every one of you were val or Sal of your class. Now you have to step up and apply yourself In a new way. Both deans said you have to change the way you study. You can’t wait until the first test where you get your first bad grade in your life. Both daughters got their first bad grade of their life as they took their first tests and messed them up. They played catch up to get back to A’s the rest of the semester. So even after the dean and we reinforced what he said to them before their first test they still messed it up.

so either you challenge yourself to do better or you don’t and take a free ride as far as you can. Which most likely in the work force that these Stanford kids etc will go will not get a pass.
 

Catch1lion

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When my daughter was an engineering TA, there were some odd requests . A lot requiring extra exam time . Some required a room by themselves . One couldn’t sit in a chair that swiveled .
Some were using it to delay taking the test and getting info from their classmates to score higher .
iDK how you translate that into the real world scenario .
Bigger problem was the “Covid kids” not being proficient in physics and math .
 

doctornick

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My impression is that it is undeniable that well informed families are using disabilities/accommodations to "game the system" and making things easier to succeed in classes. In addition to studies like this about Stanford and Ivy League type schools having having higher than average numbers of kids with accommodations, there was a study that showed a high percentage of students at Law Schools (maybe even a majority) used accommodations on their LSATs. Would it be any surprise if the kids with more time and other benefits would perform better on standardized tests?

It's unfortunate because there are truly students who need and warrant accommodations. But the more you help those who need it, the more you see people lie and exaggerate to get those benefits. And with the upside of getting into highly selective colleges on the table (and performing well once there), is it any surprise that we seen parents pushing this for their kids?

(this reminds me of the disability access lines at Disney parks which were being massively abused by people claiming their family members were autistic and "can't handle waiting in lines" so they would get essentially unlimited front of the line passes until Disney cracked down on the practice and decreased the benefit.)
 
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Bison13

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All of the above is true. Kids who have no business having a 504 or IEP have them, grade inflation is unbelievable (if they turn in the work with writing on the paper they get a 59%) and discipline is non-existent. So we have kids getting in to schools because of a 'disability' essentially making them a "DEI" student and others who are getting in with completely fabricated grades. The amount of kids who graduate with MS or lower reading/math levels is off the charts.

School systems are fully obliging in giving out the IEP/504 because that means more money for the system. It doesnt mean they'll hire more special ed teachers but rather they will make a couple more positions at the board level, a director of something or the other and pay a couple of unqualified friends of the superintendent 200K/yr.
 

doctornick

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All of the above is true. Kids who have no business having a 504 or IEP have them, grade inflation is unbelievable (if they turn in the work with writing on the paper they get a 59%) and discipline is non-existent. So we have kids getting in to schools because of a 'disability' essentially making them a "DEI" student and others who are getting in with completely fabricated grades. The amount of kids who graduate with MS or lower reading/math levels is off the charts.

School systems are fully obliging in giving out the IEP/504 because that means more money for the system. It doesnt mean they'll hire more special ed teachers but rather they will make a couple more positions at the board level, a director of something or the other and pay a couple of unqualified friends of the superintendent 200K/yr.

Oh absolutely. I constantly see it in our larger social circle where kids are diagnosed with ADHD or anxiety or "on the spectrum" who are pretty much normal kids with some foibles. I really don't want to disparage those who truly have special needs - because they do exist and have been historically under diagnosed and ignored - but you have this pendulum that has swung to where kids who just need to get their act together are deemed as being disabled and overaccommodated.

I do worry on the impact on society going forward because these kids rather than learning good executive functioning skills and compensating for their weaker characteristics are instead being told the world should bend down to help them and constantly give them assistance whenever there is the slightest bump in the road. And these are your future doctors and engineers and lawyers. Rather than weeding out the people who can't cut it in higher intensity fields, we have students without the aptitude get through by making it easier for them. I find it very disconcerting.
 

Lion84

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Oct 7, 2021
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My Daughter had an IEP - was behind and we had to move her from Catholic to Public School because they had the resources to help - she was back on grade level withing 1 1/2 and graduated college Summa *** Laude but kids at Ivies getting all these accommodations seems extreme and will further hurt them in the "real world" where companies only care about results and if you can't deliver you are out and they won't make any special accommodations outside of mandatory ADA ones.
 

bdgan

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Found this fascinating as my daughter (currently in sixth grade) is starting to get swept up in this a bit as she transitions from her 'middle school' to 'intermediate' (her independent school has four units - Lower School (K-3), Middle (4-6), Intermediate (7-8), and Upper (9-12)). The stakes get higher and there are big academic changes she will have to deal with. She is a very good student and diligent worker and meets with a math specialist once a week (through the school that we pay for) to maintain her understanding and fluency of the math they are learning. It has worked very well; outside of the first 'test' of the year (which she got a C on), she has received all A's. It is a very rigorous academic program that moves very fast. We like the additional touchpoint during the week since it forces her to do extra practice. But, with the transition to Intermediate School, extra support/tutoring during the week (in the formal sense (through the school instead of on our own)) requires more formal documentation by way of a psychological/learning analysis. Getting this documented would allow for the formal support to continue in addition to access to additional accommodations (calculator, extra time on tests, etc.). My daughter has noticed many of her friends already have these accommodations despite being smart kids (most very, very wealthy too) and prefers not to have accommodations believing she can succeed without them. So, we are punting on any formal evaluation for now and seeing how she does in IS. All this to say I am absolutely not shocked students at one of the best universities in the world are 'gaming' the system (not all to be sure, but most of that 40% I would wager) to get an advantage. Will add how completely eye opening it is to see very wealthy/powerful families get their kids into top colleges despite them being non-spectacular at our school (helps when your parents are alums and sit on the elite boards of top universities). The rich will stay rich folks.

Would appreciate thoughts/comments from educators/administrators here - what do you see? Note the 'disability accommodation' rate for community colleges is 4%.
I'm not good with the whole mental health thing. I understand that some people have legitimate mental health issues or learning disabilities. I don't mean to minimize those things but I think there is a lot of abuse. Sometimes I think it's an excuse for people who are weak and have difficulty coping with life. Kids get picked on in school, experience academic pressure, or experience stress in their job. Sometimes you just have to suck it up. This is especially true with students who will eventually have to enter the real world.

Some say that these things have existed for decades but went undiagnosed. But now we have more mental healthcare than ever and overall achievement hasn't improved.
 

bdgan

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My impression is that it is undeniable that well informed families are using disabilities/accommodations to "game the system" and making things easier to succeed in classes. In addition to studies like this about Stanford and Ivy League type schools having having higher than average numbers of kids with accommodations, there was a study that showed a high percentage of students at Law Schools (maybe even a majority) used accommodations on their LSATs. Would it be any surprise if the kids with more time and other benefits would perform better on standardized tests?

It's unfortunate because there are truly students who need and warrant accommodations. But the more you help those who need it, the more you see people lie and exaggerate to get those benefits. And with the upside of getting into highly selective colleges on the table (and performing well once there), is it any surprise that we seen parents pushing this for their kids?

(this reminds me of the disability access lines at Disney parks which were being massively abused by people claiming their family members were autistic and "can't handle waiting in lines" so they would get essentially unlimited front of the line passes until Disney cracked down on the practice and decreased the benefit.)
Don't even mention service animals on airplanes.
 
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Bison13

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Oh absolutely. I constantly see it in our larger social circle where kids are diagnosed with ADHD or anxiety or "on the spectrum" who are pretty much normal kids with some foibles. I really don't want to disparage those who truly have special needs - because they do exist and have been historically under diagnosed and ignored - but you have this pendulum that has swung to where kids who just need to get their act together are deemed as being disabled and overaccommodated.

I do worry on the impact on society going forward because these kids rather than learning good executive functioning skills and compensating for their weaker characteristics are instead being told the world should bend down to help them and constantly give them assistance whenever there is the slightest bump in the road. And these are your future doctors and engineers and lawyers. Rather than weeding out the people who can't cut it in higher intensity fields, we have students without the aptitude get through by making it easier for them. I find it very disconcerting.
I have had coworkers (special ed teachers) ask me if I am high functioning autistic because I can do mental math with larger numbers. I asked them, "before knowing I could multiply 23 x 45 in my head, would you have thought I was autistic?" Its like any kid who is good with mental math or maybe is just introverted is being tested for it these days and some Dr tells them they are autistic, which leads to all the vax stuff.
 

Thorndike2021

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Retired professor here. Had to retire before...well, I had to retire. 'College' is now ONLY about the tuition money.

At my orientation at PSU (1977) the first speaker said, "college is a competitive environment; a student who doesn't work hard doesn't make it to graduation." I took that as a personal challenge. Today it's hate-speech.

The current social expectation of 'everyone gets a trophy even though they're an idiot' is not helpful or sustainable, imho.
 

WaffleShopper

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Sep 20, 2023
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It’s a tough situation and very hard to separate the ones who need it from the ones who are gaming the system. I have a child in Schreyer doing well in a difficult major but who has accommodations due to a serious concussion. The accommodations are nice, but there is a grey area when it eventually becomes time to transition out of them and get ready for the real world.

Then again, much of the real world now is about gaming the system so maybe it’s good preparation.
 
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OUIrPSU

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My impression is that it is undeniable that well informed families are using disabilities/accommodations to "game the system" and making things easier to succeed in classes. In addition to studies like this about Stanford and Ivy League type schools having having higher than average numbers of kids with accommodations, there was a study that showed a high percentage of students at Law Schools (maybe even a majority) used accommodations on their LSATs. Would it be any surprise if the kids with more time and other benefits would perform better on standardized tests?

It's unfortunate because there are truly students who need and warrant accommodations. But the more you help those who need it, the more you see people lie and exaggerate to get those benefits. And with the upside of getting into highly selective colleges on the table (and performing well once there), is it any surprise that we seen parents pushing this for their kids?

(this reminds me of the disability access lines at Disney parks which were being massively abused by people claiming their family members were autistic and "can't handle waiting in lines" so they would get essentially unlimited front of the line passes until Disney cracked down on the practice and decreased the benefit.)
Going to Disney with my 2 autistic kids when they were little was what my wife and I called the ONLY “benefit” of having Autism.
 

OUIrPSU

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All of the above is true. Kids who have no business having a 504 or IEP have them, grade inflation is unbelievable (if they turn in the work with writing on the paper they get a 59%) and discipline is non-existent. So we have kids getting in to schools because of a 'disability' essentially making them a "DEI" student and others who are getting in with completely fabricated grades. The amount of kids who graduate with MS or lower reading/math levels is off the charts.

School systems are fully obliging in giving out the IEP/504 because that means more money for the system. It doesnt mean they'll hire more special ed teachers but rather they will make a couple more positions at the board level, a director of something or the other and pay a couple of unqualified friends of the superintendent 200K/yr.
And you know this how? I have two kids on the Spectrum who went through public schools, my wife is a special education/autism consultant who works with our local school system, and I’ve taught college students for almost 30 years. No kid with a documented disability is getting in anywhere under the guise of DEI. And as for public schools “giving out” IEPs in order to make money, all I can say is, “they’re not.”
 

OUIrPSU

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While there will always be people who try to game the system, public school accommodations contained in IEPs and 504s are essential to the academic success of every disabled student who has one. And just to clear up any misconceptions - accommodations don’t give students an advantage. To the contrary, they remove hurdles that might otherwise prevent students from being successful.
 

OUIrPSU

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Found this fascinating as my daughter (currently in sixth grade) is starting to get swept up in this a bit as she transitions from her 'middle school' to 'intermediate' (her independent school has four units - Lower School (K-3), Middle (4-6), Intermediate (7-8), and Upper (9-12)). The stakes get higher and there are big academic changes she will have to deal with. She is a very good student and diligent worker and meets with a math specialist once a week (through the school that we pay for) to maintain her understanding and fluency of the math they are learning. It has worked very well; outside of the first 'test' of the year (which she got a C on), she has received all A's. It is a very rigorous academic program that moves very fast. We like the additional touchpoint during the week since it forces her to do extra practice. But, with the transition to Intermediate School, extra support/tutoring during the week (in the formal sense (through the school instead of on our own)) requires more formal documentation by way of a psychological/learning analysis. Getting this documented would allow for the formal support to continue in addition to access to additional accommodations (calculator, extra time on tests, etc.). My daughter has noticed many of her friends already have these accommodations despite being smart kids (most very, very wealthy too) and prefers not to have accommodations believing she can succeed without them. So, we are punting on any formal evaluation for now and seeing how she does in IS. All this to say I am absolutely not shocked students at one of the best universities in the world are 'gaming' the system (not all to be sure, but most of that 40% I would wager) to get an advantage. Will add how completely eye opening it is to see very wealthy/powerful families get their kids into top colleges despite them being non-spectacular at our school (helps when your parents are alums and sit on the elite boards of top universities). The rich will stay rich folks.

Would appreciate thoughts/comments from educators/administrators here - what do you see? Note the 'disability accommodation' rate for community colleges is 4%.
I have 62 undergraduate students in 2 classes this semester. Four (6.5%) have accommodations.
 
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Bison13

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And you know this how? I have two kids on the Spectrum who went through public schools, my wife is a special education/autism consultant who works with our local school system, and I’ve taught college students for almost 30 years. No kid with a documented disability is getting in anywhere under the guise of DEI. And as for public schools “giving out” IEPs in order to make money, all I can say is, “they’re not.”
I work in MD public schools.. If a school system tests you and you do not fit the criteria for the IEP/504 the parents can get a private testing service. I have never seen a private testing service give back information that the parent didnt want either way.

You might want to check Baltimore city data on students with disabilities, tons who are put on the rolls unnecessarily just to get more federal funding.
 

Bison13

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I have 62 undergraduate students in 2 classes this semester. Four (6.5%) have accommodations.
what school? The last year I taught Calc AB and BC I had to have 3 end of year meetings for kids to keep their IEP's beyond HS. Three out of 25, so 12% I believe the three ended up going to UMD, Bucknell and not sure of the third, but I think it was a smaller school to play lax.
 

bdgan

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First we couldn’t say bomb on airplanes, and now this?
Years ago we were on a winter flight from the Caribbean to Baltimore. The turbulence was really bad as we were making our final approach. The pilot came on the intercom and said "Ladies and gentlemen, we're really concerned up her in the cockpit". Then after a few seconds he continued "because the safest part of your journey is about to come to an end. Please be careful on your drive home."

This was obviously before 9/11. I suspect a pilot would get fired for doing something like that today. Heck, he might even be reprimanded for calling us "Ladies and gentlemen".
 

bdgan

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Going to Disney with my 2 autistic kids when they were little was what my wife and I called the ONLY “benefit” of having Autism.
Another funny story (not to make fun of autism).

I coached flag football back in the day. IIRC the kids were about 10 years old. There was a play clock so it was a challenge to get kids lined up for the next play. One kid was playing OL and was slow and confused about getting back to the LOS in time. I screamed out to the kid and his dad came over to me and said "Joey has ADHD but we like to limit his medicine to when he's in school". I said I understand but in my mind I was saying holy **** and why me.
 

Chumboshifko1

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I have had coworkers (special ed teachers) ask me if I am high functioning autistic because I can do mental math with larger numbers. I asked them, "before knowing I could multiply 23 x 45 in my head, would you have thought I was autistic?" Its like any kid who is good with mental math or maybe is just introverted is being tested for it these days and some Dr tells them they are autistic, which leads to all the vax stuff.

If you work with explosives, you sure as hell better be able to do math in your head, or you and others may end up dead.
 
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Midnighter

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While there will always be people who try to game the system, public school accommodations contained in IEPs and 504s are essential to the academic success of every disabled student who has one. And just to clear up any misconceptions - accommodations don’t give students an advantage. To the contrary, they remove hurdles that might otherwise prevent students from being successful.

This was tricky for me to appreciate; when I looked at my daughter's mistakes on her first exam, her issues weren't process oriented, but rather computational. For example, finding the area of a square and the missing triangle shape inside, she knew the steps, but made mistakes on the computation - I felt if she had a calculator, that wouldn't happen. So to me, it seemed like a big advantage in terms of speed and accuracy (noting you have to have the right inputs either way). But after more discussion, we became more educated and were open to exploring, but daughter was a hard no, so again, punting for now...we'll see how it goes!
 

PSUFTG

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And you know this how? I have two kids on the Spectrum who went through public schools, my wife is a special education/autism consultant who works with our local school system, and I’ve taught college students for almost 30 years. No kid with a documented disability is getting in anywhere under the guise of DEI. And as for public schools “giving out” IEPs in order to make money, all I can say is, “they’re not.”
I trust and believe that those are your (and your spouse's?) actual experiences.
That said, myself - and many others - have experiences where those things absolutely do take place. And also experiences where such measures are very much justifiable (even critical).
So, unless all those other folks (including myself) are lying, the only issue is how often and how prevalent.

Further:
The large-scale data shows that there has been - in recent years - an absolute explosion of special accommodations - to the point that they are now not even considered "special". (see the data from Stanford as exhibit 1 of many). I don't think any informed person would argue otherwise.
The odds that a significant portion (how much? who knows?) of those cases are not either "gaming the system", or done for self-interested motives (including $), is near zero.

It is what it is.
 

udsig91

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A generation of snowflakes, cupcakes and rejects…I blame parents and the education system. I do understand that there would be a few kids, but 40% is ridiculous!
 

Warlerski

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A different but related story. My wife has, for years, required wheelchair assistance in airports. You simply have to request it. It gets you an assistant who knows where to go and you can often go to the head of lines. Every time we travel, we see more and more people in wheelchairs in airports.
 

nittanyfan333

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Our oldest is on the spectrum. High functioning. He tests above grade right now but he’s also still in second grade. If they still diagnosed Asperger’s that would be his diagnosis. We have him on a 504. Don’t feel he needs an IEP right now. His 504 is centered around helping his overstimulation due to sensory overload. Headphones, separate seating for testing, process checklists for his work…. etc. But I like that his mom an I have complete control of his plan based on his BCBA and teachers input. We have 504 meetings twice a year to make sure we get it right.

I can tell you we got his 504 not necessarily for now, but so we could take 1st and 2nd grade to refine it for when he gets to 3rd when things really pick up. But for sure if we get to a point where his ABA and OT get him to where he doesn’t need his 504, we’re absolutely fine refining it to minimal support.
 

Catch1lion

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For Some at Elite Colleges, ‘Extra Time’ Means Gaming the System​

More college kids than ever claim to have disabilities. But what is lost when we allow them ‘reasonable accommodations, WSJ BY RICH COHEN​

Thirty-eight percent of Stanford University undergrads identify as disabled—that’s according to records from Stanford’s own Office of Accessible Education. Based on student surveys and internal records, Harvard and Brown put the number at upward of 20 percent. It’s 34 percent at Amherst.
But the broadness of how the law was drafted, and the ambiguity in how it’s been interpreted, truly came into play only in the last few years, as the path to an elite college and the life it allegedly affords has narrowed like a failing aortic valve. The game itself started to seem rigged. As any gambler knows, there’s no shame in cheating when the fix is already in.

The National Disability Center for Student Success estimates that 4 million college students currently have a disability, a figure that nearly doubled over the past two decades. Here are a few of the conditions that might entitle those students to more time on an exam: ADHD or general reading disorders; writing disorders; math disorders; trouble focusing; pressure-induced stress; time-induced pressure; mood disorder; test anxiety; panic disorder. There are, of course, legitimate disabilities that call for accommodation, but the Gen Xer in me revolts at the way everything has been pathologized and turned into a condition.
The above are selected excerpts from his column 2/7/26
The love the ending-
I’m just glad that when my surgeon took the boards, she did not require extra time.

 

PSUAXE70

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And you know this how? I have two kids on the Spectrum who went through public schools, my wife is a special education/autism consultant who works with our local school system, and I’ve taught college students for almost 30 years. No kid with a documented disability is getting in anywhere under the guise of DEI. And as for public schools “giving out” IEPs in order to make money, all I can say is, “they’re not.”
Thank you for posting. My 38 years of teaching support what you say but some people just have to complain.