POLL: Should this season be Tom Brands last as HC at Iowa?
- Thread starter LIV4GOD
- Start date
That would be ideal, if it were 2016. Rome is burning.
He nailed your tone operfectl
Then you are tone deaf! But, considering how you spelled perfect...
come on man... you know thats how you sound... I have never seen anyone accept being average more than you have... nothing to feel bad about. you seem really nice.
Ridiculous narrative that simply is NOT true. Iowa has NEVER been REMOTELY close to average under Tom. That is simply narrative shifting to fit your agenda.
I know this for a fact because MSU is exactly AVERAGE for all of DI and I did all I could for years until I was told point blank what the mission is for MSU wrestling for the foreseeable future.
I get that some on here will only be satisfied with 1st place. I simply do NOT think it is near as easy to make happen as many of you think it is, nor do I believe there is someone out there right now that can do it better than Brands.
So, you can continue to try to twist what I mean by what I say, or you can read the above until you can comprehend it fully and then realize it only sounds that way because you WANT it to and I am NOWHERE near accepting "average" from Iowa, because they are NOWHERE NEAR IT....
If MSU is average, then Iowa isn't "average" (yet), but they are falling further behind the elite, which is going to include Ok St along with PSU by next season, which you embrace wholeheartedly.
there is only 5-6 teams every year that have any chance of doing anything... Iowa is average. Below average if you factor in Iowa's past, facilities, and fan base. By all means keep pretending like you know what you're talking about. The simple fact is that We have two coaches who refuse to change and made our once great program average.... and you're ok with that.. Average MSU should be you're new name. Not that there is anything wrong with that.
So are you saying there's no better option than the Brands, and nobody could've done better with Iowa's resources over any similar period of the Brands tenure, including recruiting, training, style and funding priorities?
In other words, are you saying regardless of any change that might have occurred under any similar period of the Brands tenure, including those that might have affected changes to recruiting, training, style and funding priorities, there's no way Iowa could've had more national team championships, more B1G team championships, more individual NCAA Champions or more individual B1G champions?
Or are you saying the above only applies going forward now that PSU has its system in place (and OkSt is putting theirs in place)?
"Past is prologue." William Shakespeare, 'The Tempest.'
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OkState was willing to spend whatever it took and the timing worked out perfectly for them. It is what it is. There was NO WAY DT to Iowa was going to happen instead. Smith was retiring and DT lost at trials right at the right time. Then a billionaire stepped in to make it all happen.
I have said it over and over, there is NO WAY DT to Iowa could have happened. Now, there simply isn't a money backer at that level willing to step in and fund the search, nor is there a UNICORN sitting out there to grab.
You can continue to twist my narrative all you want. I have made it quite clear I do NOT think Brands is the perfect coach. No one is. I simply think he is much better than many of you give him credit for and I DO NOT SEE anyone out there right now that I believe would do as well, let alone that much better to make the whiners stop whining.....I honestly think much of this is driven by either personal hatred of Brands or even hatred of Iowa wrestling itself...
A lot of that comes down to what truly, if any, are the limitations Brands has been/still is dealing with that PSU/OkState appear to not have to deal with. Every single Brands detractor glosses completely over this part and its incredibly important if even part of it is true.
Still, yes, I firmly believe that Brands was the best coach for Iowa short of Sanderson. I have a hard time believing there was any way they get Sanderson from PSU and they sure weren't going to drop Brands and take Sanderson while he was at ISU and Brands was winning 3 titles in a row.
Are there coaches that may have done certain things better than Brands? Sure. No one is the best at every aspect. However, I do firmly believe they have been the best to do it for Iowa under their run.
PSU benefitted from the perfect storm and it looks like OkState has had a very similar situation. Now, I will say that Nolf may eventually be the next best thing, but his lack of International success leads to trepidation when considering truly having to compete with PSU and OkState. Both DT and Cael have a strong argument that Nolf can't stop when dealing with the most elite recruits wanting gold medals.
Finally, yes, I am a fan of the Brands bros. But, that doesn't mean I wouldn't acknowledge a better option if it was truly out there. Sadly, right now, the only one I believe in is Cael and or Cunningham and I don't see ANY way in hell that happens...
We'll see. Ryan has certainly been great on the recruiting end, but with Penn State, it's about more than just recruiting. Cael has gotten his wrestlers to overachieve at nationals almost every year (even 2021 when PSU didn't have the depth to beat Iowa for the team title, they were 4-for-4 on Saturday, which is what kids notice) and has an elite RTC that is producing Olympic and world champions. Ok St already showed flashes of overachieving on Saturday at nationals in one season under DT. I expect it again from them this year. He's building the world class RTC to compete with PSU as well.
PSU this year has a team no one is touching, but by next year, Ok St with Jax, Vega, Robideau, and Dee as sophs and Ross and the Raneys possibly coming on board right away, they are going to be right there and nothing is going to stop that train. I don't see the same full package from tOSU or VT yet, but they have gotten some elite recruits, so we'll see, but I expect PSU/OSU to be the elite tier by next year with Iowa firmly in the next tier with tOSU and others (including VT when Bassett/Miller are in their lineup). Nolf is going to be the next one who rebuilds into the elite tier. It's just a matter of who has the courage to take the plunge.
He's saying as long as they stay better than MSU, it's fine.
I love how you guys keep dragging me back into this. I have said just about all I can say. Although the "average' line is a new schtick.
Iowa has been the 2nd best program during Brands tenure and it isn't even close. There is NO argument where you can find one team, other than PSU, that has truly been close to Iowa's level, let alone at it. They all sneak in for a year or 2, but have multiple years that would get Brands fired immediately. Hell, Ryan had a season where they were in the 20's. V tech hasn't done SQUAT to even be a consideration and just got LUCKY that Iowa wouldn't pay the Bassett ransom. It's not like they outrecruited the top programs to get them. All the top programs said HELL NO after what happened.
Look, I get the argument that you want Iowa to take 1st. It sucks that PSU is so far ahead. However, where we differ, and I keep repeating it, there is NO ONE you could have replaced Brands with that was going to stop what PSU has become under Sanderson and as long as DT has the money behind him, I do NOT believe there will be a coach at Iowa that will stop him either.
That is where we differ. But, keep calling me average while sarcastically saying I "seem very nice" or "there is nothing wrong with that". It really helps you win the argument!
damn thats alot... I am sure it is very average though... congrats
So all things considered and largely based on results, following Gable (Zadick included), you believe there has never been a better head coach option for Iowa wrestling than the Brands, which could be practically had, and that continues to be the case today. In part, it's more circumstances beyond their control that are limiting the Brands (circumstances that PSU and Ok St are unfettered by).
Furthermore, you think this will continue to be the case until the Brands decide to retire. That's when the inevitable delayed decision for Iowa' wrestling's next head coach will be forced. Only then will the whiners need to find something new to whine about.
Meanwhile, the whiners are bored AF and looking for something new to whine about sooner rather than be held hostage to boring AF wrestling under Brands until the Brands choose to retire.
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I am not playing this game with you. I have written enough on here for my position to be very clear. Pigeon holing isn't going to happen...
It’s all about resources. You give a big name the resources Brands are given and they will do just as well. You put Brands back at a school like VTech guess what; he wouldn’t be running the 2nd best program over the past 15 years. Brands is no better of a coach than a lot of these other D1 coaches he’s just given the resources to make him look better. Take away Bobs money and make Brands work with the same funding as a team like South Dakota State or UNI and Brands doesn’t look good at all.
“Penn State is doing things no one else ever has, but Brands keeps us second, we didn’t need David Taylor” <== YOU ARE HERE
“Penn State and Ok St have an advantage no knee else has, but Brands keeps us third, we don’t need Nolf”.
“Those programs have advantages no need else has, but Brands keeps us 4th”.
“We may be 10th in the Big 10, but the Brands still keep us above Rutgers”.
I’m not sold on replacing Tom unless he’s unwilling to make internal changes. We simply aren’t keeping up with PSU and DT’s OSU and if you’re Iowa wrestling that’s a problem…and that is not OK. We should be competitive with the best in the sport and haven’t been for a while.
You’re ridiculous. I love Brands, both of them, but the product they put on the mat is / has been stale. If they could get our boys to wrestle their style I would be all in. But they don’t and they can’t. It’s time for a change.
MSU just likes to ramble! I think he’s a Brands’ AI bot that’s been programmed to dispute no matter what. He’s becoming a lot like Iron Hawk where I would block but sometimes just need the entertainment value.
Oh, and you just showed true weakness even considering using the block option.
Pure cowardice=block!
Point of clarification.FFS. Do you think those PSU Idiot's liked the "guarantee" they got from James Franklin?They just paid that loser $50 million to walk away. Not too bright I would say. But sure, the more you spend the better the "guarantee" right? Clearly not how it works.
Indiana just went 16-0 in College Football. One of the worst College Football teams in the history of the sport. Their Coach came from F'ing James Madison. Yes, THAT James Madison, that put fear into their opponents since James Madison died in 1836. Let that sink in for just a second.
You do realize Coaches retire, get old, get fired or die right? They HAVE to be replaced, and there are no guarantees. You roll the dice and see what happens, but you don't assume the fetal position and cry about "what if's".
Franklin did not and will not get $50m from psu. Us idiots had some slick lawyer from one of dem dare Ivy League schools do that contract.
Where it says he gets the difference between the buy out ($50m) and whatever his new contract is with his new employer. In this case psu is paying a few million.
Not only nice, but quite strong as well. Imagine the strength needed to pull up the goal posts and move them.
Nah... weak eyes. A prudent block can help prevent both eye strain and dry eyes.
What cowardice? I always dispute you and it's like beating my head against the wall. I didn't say I was blocking you, but I surely would if you weren't so entertaining. And sometimes you do have some good factoids. And sometimes you have your imaginery factoids...from imaginary comments you had hoped others posted, but still pretended they did.
You know I respect your opinion. I think where the primary difference occurs is what is considered the clear number 2 program? 10 years-yes. Currently and moving forward-no. I have never argued that Brands has not been a great coach with a Hall of Fame career and I think most others believe this too. It is obvious to me that Iowa is not holding that clear 2nd best team status starting now. I think OSU with DT is passing them. I think tOSU is ahead too right now. ISU has drawn even. VTech is suddenly in the blind spot. Iowa if they keep Brands another 5 years isn't going to fall off of a cliff but I expect them to be in that 3-6 range every year and fighting for a team trophy. Iowa wrestling is Alabama football. Getting high finishes but not titles isn't easily swallowed by a fan base that has seen a ton of winning. I doubt most people who think the time for change has come are failing to recognize the success Brands has achieved in this job. It is the present and future at debate.
MSU… how do you think Rob Koll could have done at Iowa over the past ten years? He can recruit, he coaches to his kids strengths, and has been successful at 3 institutions now. I could see him at least equaling what Brands has done with Iowa resources
Koll would have been interesting. Still, I wonder how much the Ivy League lure helped him with recruiting. Also, I am not sure I would call Stanford a success. I know he walked into a mess, but he definitely got out of there quickly. As far as NC goes, he has been ok so far, but needs more time to fully judge.
With that said, I really liked the guy at Cornell, but I am not sure how he would have done at Iowa. It would have really come down to his support staff. With the right assistants he may have had a chance to challenge Brands, but I wouldn’t go as far as equaling let alone surpassing…
"Happiness consists of getting your hair cut every two weeks and watching your neighbor fall off his roof" - Lin Yutang, The Importance of Living
So Tom’s contract expires in 3 yrs? I admit the loaded 2026 class was a disaster, even though they put a lot of effort and were willing to put a ton of money into it. Had one top 20 and one who isn’t ranked in top 100. But that didn’t discourage several very good 2027 and a few top 2028 guys from committing this fall. If these guys don’t bail on us and they can add at least 2 more top 2028 guys, do you really think Rome will be burning if Tom retires on 3-4 years like Smith did? I’m trying to think of a program that would have an opening for Nolf in the next few years that could keep him away from us, like okyst will keep Taylor away from everyone except PSU if Carl retires.
I'm not who you asked but to your point there are not many jobs like the Iowa job in wrestling. There is no question that the amount of interest in the head coaching positions at the University of Iowa will have everybody's attention. I would say Cael and DT would be the list of people without interest. It is THE job in many minds I'm guessing. Cael may have an empire that can't be toppled, but Iowa,Oklahoma State,Ohio State, and Michigan would be my best guess on who has a chance to overtake them at some future point. Michigan has the structure but it needs new leadership and I really like Sean Bormet. I think a guy like Nolf could make meatchicken dangerous.