The right call vs. the correct call

[Pickle_Rick]

In the last game UVA had the ball, and it goes into TT court. Moretti, Hunter, and Guy (iirc) all go for it. Moretti is in the lead, and the UVA guard is pulling on his arms, shirt, whatever he can grab. No call...fine, I can live with that. Moretti reaches the ball, and starts dribbling when Hunter comes in from the side and swats it out of bounds. The officials go to the monitor to see who touches it last. They declare UVA ball. It appeared to go off Moretti's pinkie, but I didn't think it was conclusive, but again, fine, an argument could be made.

Here is my problem, obviously in the replays you can see Moretti being hampered illegally, clear as day. I know you can't call fouls retroactively, but in fairness, how do you not declare that Tech's ball? Discuss, if you wish. My feelings are refs are just asswipes of the lowest order.

 

[K_TIME]

In the last game UVA had the ball, and it goes into TT court. Moretti, Hunter, and Guy (iirc) all go for it. Moretti is in the lead, and the UVA guard is pulling on his arms, shirt, whatever he can grab. No call...fine, I can live with that. Moretti reaches the ball, and starts dribbling when Hunter comes in from the side and swats it out of bounds. The officials go to the monitor to see who touches it last. They declare UVA ball. It appeared to go off Moretti's pinkie, but I didn't think it was conclusive, but again, fine, an argument could be made.

Here is my problem, obviously in the replays you can see Moretti being hampered illegally, clear as day. I know you can't call fouls retroactively, but in fairness, how do you not declare that Tech's ball? Discuss, if you wish. My feelings are refs are just asswipes of the lowest order.

Thus one of a list of problems with replay.

If the arugment for replay is you hate to see teams penalized late in games with a call that was wrong....why can't that same logic apply to fouls that are obvious?

 

[Stenchymouse]

Thus one of a list of problems with replay.

If the arugment for replay is you hate to see teams penalized late in games with a call that was wrong....why can't that same logic apply to fouls that are obvious?

They won't address subjective calls via replay.

IMO poor officiating is having a negative affect on sports in general...

 

[jrm693]

What burns me is they can review some things but not everything, if you can look back to correct one call you should be able to correct any call, if that had been the case Auburn of the SEC would have been playing instead of Virginia of the ACC for the NC. I will get back on my bandwagon as so many times before but College Bball coaches should have two challenges per hand as in Football, if they are wrong the other team should be awarded free throws, if they are right then it may save them to play another game.

 

[ALL4UK]

I have changed my way of thinking on late game calls as I have gotten older. I am now of the opinion that you have to be 6-8 points ahead in the last minute or it is coin flip as to who will win. One bad call can change the results, so it is up to each team to create that separation...otherwise you better hope luck is on your side.

 

[catswin]

• I wonder what the officials think when they go to the monitor and see an obvious missed call that they can’t review. They gather around the monitor to see if LSU’s winning basket was before time expired but then see the play should have been nulified because of an obvious goal tend.

 

[Cats_2010]

In the last game UVA had the ball, and it goes into TT court. Moretti, Hunter, and Guy (iirc) all go for it. Moretti is in the lead, and the UVA guard is pulling on his arms, shirt, whatever he can grab. No call...fine, I can live with that. Moretti reaches the ball, and starts dribbling when Hunter comes in from the side and swats it out of bounds. The officials go to the monitor to see who touches it last. They declare UVA ball. It appeared to go off Moretti's pinkie, but I didn't think it was conclusive, but again, fine, an argument could be made.

Here is my problem, obviously in the replays you can see Moretti being hampered illegally, clear as day. I know you can't call fouls retroactively, but in fairness, how do you not declare that Tech's ball? Discuss, if you wish. My feelings are refs are just asswipes of the lowest order.

The problem I had with the ball being knocked from his hand by Virginia then ultimately awarded the ball is that play is always called out on the defense, 10 times out of 10. Only now this one is reviewed and overturned. If a defender knocks the ball out of your hand then technically the offensive players hand is always going to have been the last one to be in contact with the ball. There is no way that call should have been overturned. Doesn’t bother me that VA won but you hate to see a crucial call go against any team in that situation that never gets called the way that play did, never.

 

[Mojocat_rivals48469]

Correct call vs right call is a good way to frame it.

Makes me think immediately of the foul called on Auburn on Guy's shot in the semifinal. I think just about everyone got the question wrong. Everyone asked "was it a foul?" Well, if that's the question, then the answer is obvious. You show the replay, and surely the defender bumps into Guy. So yes, viewed in isolation, that was a textbook foul, which demands the official blow his whistle.

The right way to look at it is to say, "how have they been calling this game?" If they have generally let them play, if they haven't called many fouls, if they've been letting bumps on shots go uncalled....then you need to let that call go, even if it is a "textbook foul." And that's the case in that game - they hadn't been calling much, so they should have let that one go as well, IMO. Consistency in officiating is the most important thing, more so than accuracy even. Again, IMO. It's what Pearl was obviously talking about when he said "call it at the beginning, call it in the middle, call it at the end."....

 

[rmattox]

Correct call vs right call is a good way to frame it.

Makes me think immediately of the foul called on Auburn on Guy's shot in the semifinal. I think just about everyone got the question wrong. Everyone asked "was it a foul?" Well, if that's the question, then the answer is obvious. You show the replay, and surely the defender bumps into Guy. So yes, viewed in isolation, that was a textbook foul, which demands the official blow his whistle.

The right way to look at it is to say, "how have they been calling this game?" If they have generally let them play, if they haven't called many fouls, if they've been letting bumps on shots go uncalled....then you need to let that call go, even if it is a "textbook foul." And that's the case in that game - they hadn't been calling much, so they should have let that one go as well, IMO. Consistency in officiating is the most important thing, more so than accuracy even. Again, IMO. It's what Pearl was obviously talking about when he said "call it at the beginning, call it in the middle, call it at the end."....

Agree that lack of consistency is the mail culprit. That can and should be solved by simply calling the game, from beginning to end, according to the book. Players will adapt. The game will be much better.
As for replay if, when reviewing a play, officials see contact that would have constituted a foul and could possibly have contributed to the ball going out of bounds, they should be able to call the foul based on the replay. Officials don't need to be in the business of determining whether or not a violation was or was not of consequence. They should simply call EVERYTHING.

 

[carolinacat]

• I wonder what the officials think when they go to the monitor and see an obvious missed call that they can’t review. They gather around the monitor to see if LSU’s winning basket was before time expired but then see the play should have been nulified because of an obvious goal tend.

Well, look at Joe Lindsay's face when they were checking the "time left on clock" and he saw clearly they missed a defensive basket interference on LSU. He knew.

 

[morgousky]

I feel like most people will never get it.

There’s a large segment of people who believe that you leave it alone in real time. We believe this because once you start down the rabbit holes, it doesn’t end. There’s always going to be problems. There are fouls through every game no one talks about. It’s only the foul at the end of the missed double dribble with 25 seconds to go.

Now what we’ve done in the name of “sports justice”, is stalled the games and manufactured momentum changes. There are probably 100 games this year that were decided by officials giving tired teams an extra 10 minutes of rest, or by the officials stopping momentum.

And over what?

A stupid call they got wrong when they’ve been missing calls all game. It makes no sense. They can’t even review the things that honestly should. And we will just continue to screw the entire process up because that’s what humans do. The utopia in our minds never comes to fruition.

These players don’t deserve replays and neither do the coaches. They teach fouling and flopping, there’s many calls they shouldn’t get to begin with. I don’t care about a stupid call at the end of a game when they’ve allowed one team to foul relentlessly the entire game. Tough.

Social media has given a voice to casual people who know nothing about sports and we all jump to the rhythm. It’s ridiculous.

Human error is part of it, let it go. Let the games go and let the players decide these outcomes to the best of your ability. The reviews dictate winners and losers and there’s no place for this nonsense in the games.

 

[rmattox]

I feel like most people will never get it.

There’s a large segment of people who believe that you leave it alone in real time. We believe this because once you start down the rabbit holes, it doesn’t end. There’s always going to be problems. There are fouls through every game no one talks about. It’s only the foul at the end of the missed double dribble with 25 seconds to go.

Now what we’ve done in the name of “sports justice”, is stalled the games and manufactured momentum changes. There are probably 100 games this year that were decided by officials giving tired teams an extra 10 minutes of rest, or by the officials stopping momentum.

And over what?

A stupid call they got wrong when they’ve been missing calls all game. It makes no sense. They can’t even review the things that honestly should. And we will just continue to screw the entire process up because that’s what humans do. The utopia in our minds never comes to fruition.

These players don’t deserve replays and neither do the coaches. They teach fouling and flopping, there’s many calls they shouldn’t get to begin with. I don’t care about a stupid call at the end of a game when they’ve allowed one team to foul relentlessly the entire game. Tough.

Social media has given a voice to casual people who know nothing about sports and we all jump to the rhythm. It’s ridiculous.

Human error is part of it, let it go. Let the games go and let the players decide these outcomes to the best of your ability. The reviews dictate winners and losers and there’s no place for this nonsense in the games.

Interesting position. Maybe the problem is that games matter to us more than they should. I have no problem eliminating replays, but re-emphasize calling games according to and in compliance with the rules.

 

[UK2kats]

I say, no refs, no fouls and put a cage around the court. First team to 20 wins.

Solved

 

[UK Dude]

I think it is against the spirit of the rule. VA knocked the ball out of bounds. It's ridiculous to put it in slow motion and say that VA got their hand off the ball as the ball was still touching Tech's pinky. Come on...

 

[UK Dude]

If Tech would have lunged to recover it then it's different. VA knocked the ball out of his hand.

 

[Wildcat Sheli]

Didn't the referee analysts say that sometimes in slow motion, there's distortion and it will look like it goes off the ball handler's hand every time, even if it may not have?

While I don't necessarily believe in "make up calls" or "mirroring calls" to the letter that they are enforced (of course I believe in a fairly called game, though), in that particular situation I thought the same thing. You look at the replay. You see Moretti clearly get fouled. There's not indisputable evidence that it went off of him when it went out of bounds. To me, the right thing would have been to keep it Texas Tech.

 

[Wildcat Sheli]

This article also has some words about the situation: https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/04/09/key-out-of-bounds-reversal-virginia-win-over-texas-tech-raises-questions-replay-use/

One quote: “That last point was a theme among critics of the overturned call. Even if the ball did touch Moretti last, it did so by the barest of margins. To decide that was a more significant factor for possession than Hunter’s action in poking the ball away violated the spirit, if not the letter, of basketball law.”

 

[Trinity45]

In the last game UVA had the ball, and it goes into TT court. Moretti, Hunter, and Guy (iirc) all go for it. Moretti is in the lead, and the UVA guard is pulling on his arms, shirt, whatever he can grab. No call...fine, I can live with that. Moretti reaches the ball, and starts dribbling when Hunter comes in from the side and swats it out of bounds. The officials go to the monitor to see who touches it last. They declare UVA ball. It appeared to go off Moretti's pinkie, but I didn't think it was conclusive, but again, fine, an argument could be made.

Here is my problem, obviously in the replays you can see Moretti being hampered illegally, clear as day. I know you can't call fouls retroactively, but in fairness, how do you not declare that Tech's ball? Discuss, if you wish. My feelings are refs are just asswipes of the lowest order.

College officials are horrible, they are inconsistent in calling the game, miss the simplest calls and rely on replay too much.

 

[Looksbetterinblue]

I’m with you. If the goal is getting it right and being fair, just call it inconclusive and leave the call with tech.

Same with our end of game with LSU. You are checking for the clock, but you see an obvious goal tend. Just declare no basket and go to OT and let the players decide it.
Before some of you start in, I get they can’t alter the rules, but the primary goal of officials is to insuring no one gets an unfair advantage so there should be an overriding “fairness” clause allowing the officials to use judgment.

 

[JonathanW_rivals]

Thus one of a list of problems with replay.

If the arugment for replay is you hate to see teams penalized late in games with a call that was wrong....why can't that same logic apply to fouls that are obvious?

Very good point.
That could be rectified. You could make the replay rule such that, allowing officials to consider other parts directly impacting that play they are reviewing to impact their ruling/decision.
That adjustment to the replay rule would have allowed the officials reviewing the game clock on the tip in the LSU-UK game to consider the tip was goal-tending.

 

[Lovebaskelball]

This article also has some words about the situation: https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/04/09/key-out-of-bounds-reversal-virginia-win-over-texas-tech-raises-questions-replay-use/

One quote: “That last point was a theme among critics of the overturned call. Even if the ball did touch Moretti last, it did so by the barest of margins. To decide that was a more significant factor for possession than Hunter’s action in poking the ball away violated the spirit, if not the letter, of basketball law.”

That makes zero sense. If the ball touches Moretti last, then it is Virginia ball. There is no spirit or letter in who touched the ball last.

 

[bigblueinsanity_rivals250340]

At best refs are just terrible in general. At worst they're corrupt.

Given the incredibly favorable officiating uva got in the tournament which is more likely? At least three games worth of refs randomly continually called the game in uva favor? Or that it was intentional?

 

[Pickle_Rick]

This was always my biggest gripe about the last touch rule. A lot of times a guy will have possession and the defender will knock it out of his hands. The defender only hits the ball for a second, but because the offense loses control, they penalize them. The defender knocked it out, the possessor was intent on keeping the ball in play.

As a caveat, this applies to hands only. If the defender knocks the ball free, and it hits the possessors leg, it's defenders ball. Just the hand rule seems off.