Cal knows more than I do

[GonzoCat90]

negative predictions is all they have. arguing with a poster about facts and probable trends is useless. they’ll just say “see how that works out for you”. amazing to think some of these people may be fans.

And honestly, my question for them is why? Why bother? If I hated anything as much as they hate Kentucky basketball, I sure wouldn't devote my time and money and focus to it.

They seem to actively seek out the misery and negative in what is supposed to be a fun hobby. Just go do something else.

 

[hotelblue]

And honestly, my question for them is why? Why bother? If I hated anything as much as they hate Kentucky basketball, I sure wouldn't devote my time and money and focus to it.

They seem to actively seek out the misery and negative in what is supposed to be a fun hobby. Just go do something else.

it’s called obsession.

 

[gracetoyou]

Yep, Cal knows more

 

[Whatsup]

Six words that are pretty much a mantra to me. Cal knows more than I do.

Right now, Wildcat spirits are low. And they should be. Unless you’re primarily a soccer or volleyball fan, it’s been a rough couple weeks, and I don’t need to catalogue the reasons.

But if you indulge a brief moment of rationality, you’ll realize we have a lot to look forward to this season. And Coach Cal is the reason why. I don’t need to write the man’s resumé, but it’s worth remembering that he’s been a head coach for 30 years, and he is really good at it.

He inherited a UMASS team that hadn’t even made the NIT in twelve years, let alone the NCAA tournament. In his fourth year they made the NCAA Sweet Sixteen. In his seventh year, the Minutemen reached the Elite Eight; in his eighth year, the Final Four. Try to fathom the level of transformation this was. This was his first head coaching job, before the invention of the dribble drive offense. His Sweet Sixteen team had one barely Top 100 guy in Tony Barbee and they took a good Kentucky team to the wire in the tournament.

Ditto Memphis. Calipari inherited a Johnny Jones team with a losing record that couldn’t even qualify for the NIT. In Cal’s second year, the Tigers won the NIT. In his sixth and seventh years, they made the NCAA tournament Elite Eight. In his eighth year, they reached the title game and nearly won the damn thing.

This stuff doesn’t happen by accident. You don’t win by accident or by luck. Not in college basketball. It’s too competitive; there’s too much parity.

Some folks don’t want to talk about all that. It’s ancient history and they want to know: what is John Calipari doing for Kentucky right now? Because other than a national championship, three Final Fours, a win-loss record identical to Adolph Rupp, and resurrecting a program in the death throes of a drunken philanderer’s mismanagement, what has Coach Cal really accomplished? Now that he’s disastrously missing on top recruits (except for the two Top 10 players just this year who have already committed), it’s time for Cal to answer to the exacting justice of BBN.

Well here’s their answer, and it has two parts. First, stuff hasn’t changed as much as people think. Our seasons have ebbed and flowed even under Cal. We have up years when the roster accumulates more talent than it loses (2010, 2012, 2014, 2015, 2017) and down years when it loses more than it gains (2011, 2013, 2016, 2018). Cal has turned even a down year into a Final Four, and no up year has been worse than an Elite Eight. As down as 2013 felt, it was succeeded by back to back Final Fours. And we’re nowhere near that down. Indeed, 2019 is an up year.

Second, John Calipari is the best NCAA tournament coach I have ever seen. By that I mean I have seen his teams transform on their journey from November to March more than the teams of any other coach. It blows my mind just how predictably excellent he is at this. Remember how terrible the 2013-14 regular season felt? That team looked utterly transformed when it mattered, and reached the championship game through a veritable gauntlet of competition. 2011 was a similar story of transformation. The 2017 team got obliterated by Florida in February - not in November - in a 22-point rout, and yet, I had no doubt that if we could survive UNC in the Elite Eight, we were going to the national championship. The team was Top 5 in both adjusted offense and defense. Even last year’s squad, down, injured, and dysfunctional as it was, had transformed into a winning team playing beautiful basketball in just the nick of time. But Cal can’t guarantee even his best shooters will hit open threes, or that forwards with broken digits will hit every free throw.

What I have learned to guarantee is that Cal will wring every drop of potential out of the roster we have to make a run in March. And this team has tools and competencies last year’s team didn’t. Just be patient. Relax, and keep enjoying every second of the Cal era. Love the process, and don’t be surprised when it pays off with a team that looks unrecognizably good in March. It’s what Coach Cal does. He knows more than we do.

What you said 100 times.

 

[Elliott Tim]

DMcP,
That was nearly inspirational. Other than that, it was a great post.

A post worthy of tieing every thouroughbred
winner to.

 

[DerekMcPwn]

12/29/2018 - Bump because Cal practically called out the subject of the OP during the press conference today.

Understand the process and what it means to play with freshmen. John Calipari’s induction to the Naismith Hall of Fame wasn’t some grand deception. He’s good at this. And from the perspective of a fan, believe me, the victories are much sweeter when you’ve weathered the early turbulence and witnessed the development.

 

[DerekMcPwn]

He’s been here all along. People complain about angry, screaming Cal, but UMASS Cal screamed even louder.

It’s hard coaching freshmen. Different sport, but it blows my mind looking at the side-by-side of Josh Allen as a freshman and Josh Allen as a senior. Look at NBA Anthony Davis vs. UK freshman Anthony Davis. And that’s just the physical component; the basketball IQ piece is even more consequential.

This year is taking longer than usual because the most important piece of the team hasn’t materialized yet - the floor general. Last season was no different. People have already forgotten how long it took SGA to become the guy. He was a turnover factory at the start of the season, and our offense would grind to a halt every time Quade Green left the floor. I used to be in agony when it was just Shai and Hami out there trying to run an offense. Woof.

But if there’s one thing Cal knows how to coach, it’s point guards. Patience. There’s a star rising in Lexington. We just can’t see it yet.

Bumping this post from early December because our point guard just won SEC Freshman of the Week two weeks in a row. The good times aren’t here yet, but they’re coming.

 

[Cats192]

Let me say first and foremost, I'm relaxed. At 21 it killed me when we lost in the tourney. At 31, well it sucks. But It's no longer the end of the world.

Secondarily: Cal can know more than I do and still not have a magic pill. We've become so accustomed to saying wait 'til March. We have had a couple of magical runs. And I think people like to cling to those and ignore the bad seasons.

2013: Struggled most of the season--lost in the 1st round of the NIT. Obviously Nerlens Noel's injury changed our trajectory. But nothing about that team said deep tourney run.

2015-2016: We struggled during the regular season. We lost in the 2nd round of the NCAAT

Last year: Struggled during the regular season; lost in the sweet 16 with a cakewalk to the Final 4 in front of us.

Can this team make a run? Sure. I think this team is better equipped than a lot of the teams we've had. I think if we get consistency from Keldon and PJ, we're pretty dangerous today. But nothing is given.

But my point is--anytime anyone says anything that isn't "We're perfect! Go Cats! BBN! Trust in Cal baby!" Well, then I need to shut up and trust the process because Cal always gets the team ready by March and we're somehow always in the Final 4--and that's just not reality.

 

[TankedCat]

DerekMcPwn:
lets just hope its you that is bumping this thread in April and not the people you're subtly calling out

always funny when the people who put all their eggs in March suddenly decide to "take a break from the board" immediately after things go south.

actually its not funny....

 

[DerekMcPwn]

DerekMcPwn:
lets just hope its you that is bumping this thread in April and not the people you're subtly calling out

always funny when the people who put all their eggs in March suddenly decide to "take a break from the board" immediately after things go south.

actually its not funny....

This thread isn’t, and never was, a promise of a national championship or even an Elite Eight appearance. It merely advocates taking a wider, historical perspective on Coach Calipari and the one-and-done era. When you do, as illustrated by the bumps, you tend to be able to make sound predictions at times that the people who ride the roller coaster every season couldn’t even imagine them.

I’m pretty confident it will be me bumping this thread in March or April. And if it isn’t, we’ll see what that means at the time that it happens. Regardless, you can take it to the bank that I won’t be one of the people throwing a tantrum.

 

[TankedCat]

This thread isn’t, and never was, a promise of a national championship or even an Elite Eight appearance. It merely advocates taking a wider, historical perspective on Coach Calipari and the one-and-done era. When you do, as illustrated by the bumps, you tend to be able to make sound predictions at times that the people who ride the roller coaster every season couldn’t even imagine them.

I’m pretty confident it will be me bumping this thread in March or April. And if it isn’t, we’ll see what that means at the time that it happens. Regardless, you can take it to the bank that I won’t be one of the people throwing a tantrum.

But whats implied with a Coach Cal knows more than me thread?

I would hope Coach Cal knows more (about coaching college basketball) than anyone on here by a wide margin.

I can see where the trust in Cal comes from - Cal is a great coach, but when you talk about the wider historical perspective, I would also suggest you look at what specifically is the historical perspective. Yes, you can just leave it at the surface level - Under Cal UK has gone to X amount of final fours in X amount of years and that's fine. There is a faith for some that Cal, under any adversity can and will deliver again

Or you can look at what got us to the final fours. And in doing so you see a definite trend - the same kind of historical perspective you demand of your readers.You would see that other than 1 magnificent run in 2014, Cal's team which have gone on to final fours had a very specific makeup

One that hasn't existed in the last 3 years and doesn't exist with this team.

I hope Cal succeeds with them but in deference to Cal's history here, I would also hope that he'd alter his strategy to go back to what he's been most successful with, and if that isn't possible, alter his strategy to what *other* good coaches have been successful with instead of just trying to beat the odds with the same repeating pattern, trying to recreate the 2014 magic each year. It would appear to me.in altering his approach he'd more than likely have to abandon his vision of players first to some degree - and that is something he does not want to do.

 

[Flipflopsandsocks]

Billy Gillispie knew more too.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Talent matters.

This team has it. So do most of Cal's teams.

That means expectations. Would be interesting to check historical precedent in regard to teams that were ranked pre-season top 2, as this team was, and where they ended up.

 

[Jkwo_rivals113955]

Let me say first and foremost, I'm relaxed. At 21 it killed me when we lost in the tourney. At 31, well it sucks. But It's no longer the end of the world.

Secondarily: Cal can know more than I do and still not have a magic pill. We've become so accustomed to saying wait 'til March. We have had a couple of magical runs. And I think people like to cling to those and ignore the bad seasons.

2013: Struggled most of the season--lost in the 1st round of the NIT. Obviously Nerlens Noel's injury changed our trajectory. But nothing about that team said deep tourney run.

2015-2016: We struggled during the regular season. We lost in the 2nd round of the NCAAT

Last year: Struggled during the regular season; lost in the sweet 16 with a cakewalk to the Final 4 in front of us.

Can this team make a run? Sure. I think this team is better equipped than a lot of the teams we've had. I think if we get consistency from Keldon and PJ, we're pretty dangerous today. But nothing is given.

But my point is--anytime anyone says anything that isn't "We're perfect! Go Cats! BBN! Trust in Cal baby!" Well, then I need to shut up and trust the process because Cal always gets the team ready by March and we're somehow always in the Final 4--and that's just not reality.

1. Nobody "always makes the final four".
2. Almost nobody in history makes the final four as high a percentage of the time as Cal does, even if you include his years at lowly UMass and Memphis.
3. If you just average out tourney wins per year instead of just final fours, the numbers get even more ridiculous. He's easily in the top 10 coaches of all time.
4. And while all of our teams don't make the final four, they're almost always capable of one. Out of 9 seasons, he's made 4 final fours. Of the ones that didn't, 10, 16, and 17 were all good enough (ranging from genuine contender to title darkhorse). Then this year they're clearly going to be good enough.

In a previous era, the 4 final fours in 9 years alone, even with first weekend exits the other seasons would've been considered success.

Cal has just spoiled some people where friggin 8 out of 10 seasons being in the F4 conversation in March is not good enough.

It's like people who discredit great NBA players who've been to a bunch of finals. Finals are hard. You're playing the best the league can put against you by the time you get there, and basketball is a team sport. But even still, some people would genuinely think more of Lebron if he had 3 finals appearances instead of 8.

It's idiotic, because that would mean that he was knocked out early by a lesser team, but some people just don't respond to logic.

 

[Jkwo_rivals113955]

Talent matters.

This team has it. So do most of Cal's teams.

That means expectations. Would be interesting to check historical precedent in regard to teams that were ranked pre-season top 2, as this team was, and where they ended up.

It's a reasonable idea, but most historical top 5 teams have a crapload of college-level competition as precedent at the time of ranking. The vast, vast majority of them have been loaded up with guys who've started for 2-3 years already. They're rated that way using much more concrete information than for Cal's teams.

And at a school like Duke (although they're full OAD now, and you end up with crazy stuff like their 2/15 loss 3/14 loss and the meltdown of their superteam two years ago), UNC, Kansas, Michigan State, Arizona, they've historically taken a couple high level kids a year, kept them, and then ended up with a top to bottom roster of extreme talent but older than ours.

Look at Roy's rosters when he first got to UNC, when OAD was still super fringe. Look at K's roster in way back in 99 which didn't win a title but featured 5 future lottery picks including the #1 (which didn't win the title). Look at the UCLA Wooden teams or the Smith UNC teams.

This idea that Cal is the only person to ever have a roster loaded with top 30 kids is just silly. It's been done before, and it's been done with way more experience.

Assuming Cal wins another championship before he retires, he'll have a top 10 resume all time and absolutely nothing to apologize for.

 

[G-PIP]

Billy Gillispie knew more too.

Of course. But, I give the edge to Cal.

 

[Chairman Meow]

Six words that are pretty much a mantra to me. Cal knows more than I do.

Right now, Wildcat spirits are low. And they should be. Unless you’re primarily a soccer or volleyball fan, it’s been a rough couple weeks, and I don’t need to catalogue the reasons.

But if you indulge a brief moment of rationality, you’ll realize we have a lot to look forward to this season. And Coach Cal is the reason why. I don’t need to write the man’s resumé, but it’s worth remembering that he’s been a head coach for 30 years, and he is really good at it.

He inherited a UMASS team that hadn’t even made the NIT in twelve years, let alone the NCAA tournament. In his fourth year they made the NCAA Sweet Sixteen. In his seventh year, the Minutemen reached the Elite Eight; in his eighth year, the Final Four. Try to fathom the level of transformation this was. This was his first head coaching job, before the invention of the dribble drive offense. His Sweet Sixteen team had one barely Top 100 guy in Tony Barbee and they took a good Kentucky team to the wire in the tournament.

Ditto Memphis. Calipari inherited a Johnny Jones team with a losing record that couldn’t even qualify for the NIT. In Cal’s second year, the Tigers won the NIT. In his sixth and seventh years, they made the NCAA tournament Elite Eight. In his eighth year, they reached the title game and nearly won the damn thing.

This stuff doesn’t happen by accident. You don’t win by accident or by luck. Not in college basketball. It’s too competitive; there’s too much parity.

Some folks don’t want to talk about all that. It’s ancient history and they want to know: what is John Calipari doing for Kentucky right now? Because other than a national championship, three Final Fours, a win-loss record identical to Adolph Rupp, and resurrecting a program in the death throes of a drunken philanderer’s mismanagement, what has Coach Cal really accomplished? Now that he’s disastrously missing on top recruits (except for the two Top 10 players just this year who have already committed), it’s time for Cal to answer to the exacting justice of BBN.

Well here’s their answer, and it has two parts. First, stuff hasn’t changed as much as people think. Our seasons have ebbed and flowed even under Cal. We have up years when the roster accumulates more talent than it loses (2010, 2012, 2014, 2015, 2017) and down years when it loses more than it gains (2011, 2013, 2016, 2018). Cal has turned even a down year into a Final Four, and no up year has been worse than an Elite Eight. As down as 2013 felt, it was succeeded by back to back Final Fours. And we’re nowhere near that down. Indeed, 2019 is an up year.

Second, John Calipari is the best NCAA tournament coach I have ever seen. By that I mean I have seen his teams transform on their journey from November to March more than the teams of any other coach. It blows my mind just how predictably excellent he is at this. Remember how terrible the 2013-14 regular season felt? That team looked utterly transformed when it mattered, and reached the championship game through a veritable gauntlet of competition. 2011 was a similar story of transformation. The 2017 team got obliterated by Florida in February - not in November - in a 22-point rout, and yet, I had no doubt that if we could survive UNC in the Elite Eight, we were going to the national championship. The team was Top 5 in both adjusted offense and defense. Even last year’s squad, down, injured, and dysfunctional as it was, had transformed into a winning team playing beautiful basketball in just the nick of time. But Cal can’t guarantee even his best shooters will hit open threes, or that forwards with broken digits will hit every free throw.

What I have learned to guarantee is that Cal will wring every drop of potential out of the roster we have to make a run in March. And this team has tools and competencies last year’s team didn’t. Just be patient. Relax, and keep enjoying every second of the Cal era. Love the process, and don’t be surprised when it pays off with a team that looks unrecognizably good in March. It’s what Coach Cal does. He knows more than we do.

Great mission statement OP. I’m in....

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

It's a reasonable idea, but most historical top 5 teams have a crapload of college-level competition as precedent at the time of ranking. The vast, vast majority of them have been loaded up with guys who've started for 2-3 years already. They're rated that way using much more concrete information than for Cal's teams.

And at a school like Duke (although they're full OAD now, and you end up with crazy stuff like their 2/15 loss 3/14 loss and the meltdown of their superteam two years ago), UNC, Kansas, Michigan State, Arizona, they've historically taken a couple high level kids a year, kept them, and then ended up with a top to bottom roster of extreme talent but older than ours.

Look at Roy's rosters when he first got to UNC, when OAD was still super fringe. Look at K's roster in way back in 99 which didn't win a title but featured 5 future lottery picks including the #1 (which didn't win the title). Look at the UCLA Wooden teams or the Smith UNC teams.

This idea that Cal is the only person to ever have a roster loaded with top 30 kids is just silly. It's been done before, and it's been done with way more experience.

Assuming Cal wins another championship before he retires, he'll have a top 10 resume all time and absolutely nothing to apologize for.

I agree with most of your post but I have a question. Who's floating the idea that Cal is the only coach to have a roster loaded with top 30 kids? I agree that it's a silly notion, but it's not a notion I promoted in my post.

 

[Jkwo_rivals113955]

I agree with most of your post but I have a question. Who's floating the idea that Cal is the only coach to have a roster loaded with top 30 kids? I agree that it's a silly notion, but it's not a notion I promoted in my post.

Totally fair - you didn't. But I've heard the line many times that the justification for holding Cal to a higher standard than every other coach is that nobody's ever had as much to work with. And even if that were true, I'd quibble with it because if you had a coach that out-talented everyone else by a factor of 5 and ended his career with, say, 2 titles in 15 years, that's still wild success for any program.

Anyways, I just don't want to miss an opportunity to point out that Cal is knocking on the door of a top 10 all time career.

 

[G-PIP]

….It would appear to me.in altering his approach he'd more than likely have to abandon his vision of players first to some degree - and that is something he does not want to do.

I don’t agree with the idea that there is anything wrong with being a “players first” program. In fact, anything else would be ethically unacceptable. This is a college team, not professional. So, if UK isn’t a “players first” program, everybody responsible for that failure should be fired by the University.

Besides, nothing about Calipari “players first” program has any negative impact on UK winning. Calipari has stated repeatedly that the focus during the season is first on the team (meaning the players as a group, not the fans by the way) and then on the best interests of the individuals after the season is over. And Calipari has done nothing to disavow this stated policy.

When a fan/critic tries to imply some negative connotation to the term “players first” in regard to Calipari it smacks of butt-hurt brought on by the slowly creeping realization that Calipari prioritizes college athletics in the proper manner – players first, fans second (or third or fourth…).

 

[TankedCat]

I don’t agree with the idea that there is anything wrong with being a “players first” program. In fact, anything else would be ethically unacceptable. This is a college team, not professional. So, if UK isn’t a “players first” program, everybody responsible for that failure should be fired by the University.

Besides, nothing about Calipari “players first” program has any negative impact on UK winning. Calipari has stated repeatedly that the focus during the season is first on the team (meaning the players as a group, not the fans by the way) and then on the best interests of the individuals after the season is over. And Calipari has done nothing to disavow this stated policy.

When a fan/critic tries to imply some negative connotation to the term “players first” in regard to Calipari it smacks of butt-hurt brought on by the slowly creeping realization that Calipari prioritizes college athletics in the proper manner – players first, fans second (or third or fourth…).

Parroting what Calipari is preaching does not constitute a valid argument. By your own argument, if winning takes any priority over being a players first then it would be ethically unacceptable - so at some level there has to be a balance between the promotion of players and the goals of the University (which is not to run an NBA farm team, but to promote a program of student athletes who strive to win a national championship)

Also, if we truly are players first, then how do we reconcile recruiting over a player we offered a scholarship telling them to come here to achieve their dreams, only to show them that if their dreams aren't met in the first year, its highly likely they'll be replaced with someone else who has dreams but also may be better than them. You really want to have a discussion about rock solid ethics of our players first approach?

I'm not sure where the argument for what the fans want came into this quote you are referencing. My post was about the makeup of what Cal has been successful with versus what he hasn't.

If you're argument is players first over what has been successful in achieving tournament wins on the court in basketball, then I'd be happy to have a discussion about the difference in goals of the University of Kentucky versus the g-league.

 

[TankedCat]

And honestly, my question for them is why? Why bother? If I hated anything as much as they hate Kentucky basketball, I sure wouldn't devote my time and money and focus to it.

They seem to actively seek out the misery and negative in what is supposed to be a fun hobby. Just go do something else.

just so you and everyone else will never ask this question again (not that you won't stop because getting the answer really isn't your goal) , the answer is they aren't going to do something else and they will continue to post here.

not to be too over the top but Kentucky basketball is not a hobby, its life.

Maybe you aren't a Kentucky native? If so I can see why you are incapable of understanding that and prone to make comments on it being a hobby.

I hope one day you and others who can't understand are passionate enough about something to the point that you think of it more than just a hobby. Then you won't make comments like the one above.

Until that time comes, I hope you enjoy your "hobby" of Kentucky basketball.

 

[kevcat]

All of that sounds good OP, but the reality is Cal continues to make a lot of decisions that make you scratch your head. A 69-49 win over a very poor Georgia team isn’t going to magically make everything better.

Let’s see how we do against a good Auburn team before we start getting carried away.

 

[ManitouDan_anon]

I loved the game last night , was fun to see the guys play well , was great to be able to relax and coast to a W for a change . But I saw stuff that bothered me , Our offensive movement and what appeared to be a new attempt at a " set". looked awful. Second half Tyler , Ashton and KJ were running some rotation around the FT line . All it seemed to accomplish was eating shot clock. We got bailed several times by a great individual play , not good team offense . And Ga was near pathetic , as the announcer said " they take a lot of 3s , they dont make a lot of 3s "

 

[kevcat]

I loved the game last night , was fun to see the guys play well , was great to be able to relax and coast to a W for a change . But I saw stuff that bothered me , Our offensive movement and what appeared to be a new attempt at a " set". looked awful. Second half Tyler , Ashton and KJ were running some rotation around the FT line . All it seemed to accomplish was eating shot clock. We got bailed several times by a great individual play , not good team offense . And Ga was near pathetic , as the announcer said " they take a lot of 3s , they dont make a lot of 3s "

My thoughts as well. I don’t think Cal is playing to this teams strength. This team is best when playing up tempo.
They showed it last night when they did push the ball. Cal seems to not be comfortable letting them do that for long stretches.

Someone posted that our 3 point defense was great against Georgia. I didn’t see that at all. We still kept switching, and for some reason I guess only Cal can explain, we kept trying to double down. Luckily Georgia couldn’t throw it in the ocean.

Let’s go beat Auburn on the road and then we’ll have something to be excited about.

 

[BoulderCat_rivals187983]

Six words that are pretty much a mantra to me. Cal knows more than I do.

Right now, Wildcat spirits are low. And they should be. Unless you’re primarily a soccer or volleyball fan, it’s been a rough couple weeks, and I don’t need to catalogue the reasons.

But if you indulge a brief moment of rationality, you’ll realize we have a lot to look forward to this season. And Coach Cal is the reason why. I don’t need to write the man’s resumé, but it’s worth remembering that he’s been a head coach for 30 years, and he is really good at it.

He inherited a UMASS team that hadn’t even made the NIT in twelve years, let alone the NCAA tournament. In his fourth year they made the NCAA Sweet Sixteen. In his seventh year, the Minutemen reached the Elite Eight; in his eighth year, the Final Four. Try to fathom the level of transformation this was. This was his first head coaching job, before the invention of the dribble drive offense. His Sweet Sixteen team had one barely Top 100 guy in Tony Barbee and they took a good Kentucky team to the wire in the tournament.

Ditto Memphis. Calipari inherited a Johnny Jones team with a losing record that couldn’t even qualify for the NIT. In Cal’s second year, the Tigers won the NIT. In his sixth and seventh years, they made the NCAA tournament Elite Eight. In his eighth year, they reached the title game and nearly won the damn thing.

This stuff doesn’t happen by accident. You don’t win by accident or by luck. Not in college basketball. It’s too competitive; there’s too much parity.

Some folks don’t want to talk about all that. It’s ancient history and they want to know: what is John Calipari doing for Kentucky right now? Because other than a national championship, three Final Fours, a win-loss record identical to Adolph Rupp, and resurrecting a program in the death throes of a drunken philanderer’s mismanagement, what has Coach Cal really accomplished? Now that he’s disastrously missing on top recruits (except for the two Top 10 players just this year who have already committed), it’s time for Cal to answer to the exacting justice of BBN.

Well here’s their answer, and it has two parts. First, stuff hasn’t changed as much as people think. Our seasons have ebbed and flowed even under Cal. We have up years when the roster accumulates more talent than it loses (2010, 2012, 2014, 2015, 2017) and down years when it loses more than it gains (2011, 2013, 2016, 2018). Cal has turned even a down year into a Final Four, and no up year has been worse than an Elite Eight. As down as 2013 felt, it was succeeded by back to back Final Fours. And we’re nowhere near that down. Indeed, 2019 is an up year.

Second, John Calipari is the best NCAA tournament coach I have ever seen. By that I mean I have seen his teams transform on their journey from November to March more than the teams of any other coach. It blows my mind just how predictably excellent he is at this. Remember how terrible the 2013-14 regular season felt? That team looked utterly transformed when it mattered, and reached the championship game through a veritable gauntlet of competition. 2011 was a similar story of transformation. The 2017 team got obliterated by Florida in February - not in November - in a 22-point rout, and yet, I had no doubt that if we could survive UNC in the Elite Eight, we were going to the national championship. The team was Top 5 in both adjusted offense and defense. Even last year’s squad, down, injured, and dysfunctional as it was, had transformed into a winning team playing beautiful basketball in just the nick of time. But Cal can’t guarantee even his best shooters will hit open threes, or that forwards with broken digits will hit every free throw.

What I have learned to guarantee is that Cal will wring every drop of potential out of the roster we have to make a run in March. And this team has tools and competencies last year’s team didn’t. Just be patient. Relax, and keep enjoying every second of the Cal era. Love the process, and don’t be surprised when it pays off with a team that looks unrecognizably good in March. It’s what Coach Cal does. He knows more than we do.

Damn man, I thought I was verbose. I say that as a compliment.

 

[DerekMcPwn]

All of that sounds good OP, but the reality is Cal continues to make a lot of decisions that make you scratch your head. A 69-49 win over a very poor Georgia team isn’t going to magically make everything better.

Let’s see how we do against a good Auburn team before we start getting carried away.

If you’re talking to me, just keep in mind that the thread was originally posted in November, and I bumped my December prediction about Cal developing a star point guard before Hagans eviscerated Georgia.

I have never once said anything to the effect of, “everything is great now, Cal fixed it!” I’m just asking people to see the forest. When you do, it stabilizes the emotional experience (on net making it more enjoyable) and helps you make good predictions and get excited about the right things. There are a lot of folks here who won’t have properly enjoyed this era in Kentucky basketball when it comes to an end.

 

[turkeywildturkey]

Six words that are pretty much a mantra to me. Cal knows more than I do.

Right now, Wildcat spirits are low. And they should be. Unless you’re primarily a soccer or volleyball fan, it’s been a rough couple weeks, and I don’t need to catalogue the reasons.

But if you indulge a brief moment of rationality, you’ll realize we have a lot to look forward to this season. And Coach Cal is the reason why. I don’t need to write the man’s resumé, but it’s worth remembering that he’s been a head coach for 30 years, and he is really good at it.

He inherited a UMASS team that hadn’t even made the NIT in twelve years, let alone the NCAA tournament. In his fourth year they made the NCAA Sweet Sixteen. In his seventh year, the Minutemen reached the Elite Eight; in his eighth year, the Final Four. Try to fathom the level of transformation this was. This was his first head coaching job, before the invention of the dribble drive offense. His Sweet Sixteen team had one barely Top 100 guy in Tony Barbee and they took a good Kentucky team to the wire in the tournament.

Ditto Memphis. Calipari inherited a Johnny Jones team with a losing record that couldn’t even qualify for the NIT. In Cal’s second year, the Tigers won the NIT. In his sixth and seventh years, they made the NCAA tournament Elite Eight. In his eighth year, they reached the title game and nearly won the damn thing.

This stuff doesn’t happen by accident. You don’t win by accident or by luck. Not in college basketball. It’s too competitive; there’s too much parity.

Some folks don’t want to talk about all that. It’s ancient history and they want to know: what is John Calipari doing for Kentucky right now? Because other than a national championship, three Final Fours, a win-loss record identical to Adolph Rupp, and resurrecting a program in the death throes of a drunken philanderer’s mismanagement, what has Coach Cal really accomplished? Now that he’s disastrously missing on top recruits (except for the two Top 10 players just this year who have already committed), it’s time for Cal to answer to the exacting justice of BBN.

Well here’s their answer, and it has two parts. First, stuff hasn’t changed as much as people think. Our seasons have ebbed and flowed even under Cal. We have up years when the roster accumulates more talent than it loses (2010, 2012, 2014, 2015, 2017) and down years when it loses more than it gains (2011, 2013, 2016, 2018). Cal has turned even a down year into a Final Four, and no up year has been worse than an Elite Eight. As down as 2013 felt, it was succeeded by back to back Final Fours. And we’re nowhere near that down. Indeed, 2019 is an up year.

Second, John Calipari is the best NCAA tournament coach I have ever seen. By that I mean I have seen his teams transform on their journey from November to March more than the teams of any other coach. It blows my mind just how predictably excellent he is at this. Remember how terrible the 2013-14 regular season felt? That team looked utterly transformed when it mattered, and reached the championship game through a veritable gauntlet of competition. 2011 was a similar story of transformation. The 2017 team got obliterated by Florida in February - not in November - in a 22-point rout, and yet, I had no doubt that if we could survive UNC in the Elite Eight, we were going to the national championship. The team was Top 5 in both adjusted offense and defense. Even last year’s squad, down, injured, and dysfunctional as it was, had transformed into a winning team playing beautiful basketball in just the nick of time. But Cal can’t guarantee even his best shooters will hit open threes, or that forwards with broken digits will hit every free throw.

What I have learned to guarantee is that Cal will wring every drop of potential out of the roster we have to make a run in March. And this team has tools and competencies last year’s team didn’t. Just be patient. Relax, and keep enjoying every second of the Cal era. Love the process, and don’t be surprised when it pays off with a team that looks unrecognizably good in March. It’s what Coach Cal does. He knows more than we do.

I can’t believe I just read this. That makes 2 of us who realize Cal knows more than we do. Hell, I thought I was the only one.

 

[GonzoCat90]

just so you and everyone else will never ask this question again (not that you won't stop because getting the answer really isn't your goal) , the answer is they aren't going to do something else and they will continue to post here.

not to be too over the top but Kentucky basketball is not a hobby, its life.

Maybe you aren't a Kentucky native? If so I can see why you are incapable of understanding that and prone to make comments on it being a hobby.

I hope one day you and others who can't understand are passionate enough about something to the point that you think of it more than just a hobby. Then you won't make comments like the one above.

Until that time comes, I hope you enjoy your "hobby" of Kentucky basketball.

This was as pointless as it was condescending and passive aggressive.

 

[TankedCat]

This was as pointless as it was condescending and passive aggressive.

exactly, its very annoying when someone tries to marginalize your opinion isn't it?

now lets try the pseudo psychology route you're masking

what I don't understand is why you post here. Clearly you don't like reading many of the posts on here. If this place makes you so miserable, then why do you continue to keep coming back? I'd think that if something you spend so much time on bothers you, you'd just stop and go away - and your life would be happier

 

[monty41]

just so you and everyone else will never ask this question again (not that you won't stop because getting the answer really isn't your goal) , the answer is they aren't going to do something else and they will continue to post here.

not to be too over the top but Kentucky basketball is not a hobby, its life.

Maybe you aren't a Kentucky native? If so I can see why you are incapable of understanding that and prone to make comments on it being a hobby.

I hope one day you and others who can't understand are passionate enough about something to the point that you think of it more than just a hobby. Then you won't make comments like the one above.

Until that time comes, I hope you enjoy your "hobby" of Kentucky basketball.

Dude, maybe get yourself a hobby? You sound unhealthy

 

[TankedCat]

Dude, maybe get yourself a hobby? You sound unhealthy

you had me at Dude

 

[GonzoCat90]

exactly, its very annoying when someone tries to marginalize your opinion isn't it?

now lets try the pseudo psychology route you're masking

what I don't understand is why you post here. Clearly you don't like reading many of the posts on here. If this place makes you so miserable, then why do you continue to keep coming back? I'd think that if something you spend so much time on bothers you, you'd just stop and go away - and your life would be happier

I don't invest travel time, money, etc into this place. I don't schedule around it. Your point only works if you can equate the two.

If anything, it proves my original point that you apparently had such a problem with. This place is based on a shared interest and fandom. If watching Kentucky basketball makes someone angry and miserable and they seek out the negative in every aspect of it, it makes almost no sense that they would go to a place built around people's enjoyment of it.

If you join a Beatles fan club and only want to talk about how sad you are about John Lennon or how much you disliked Yellow Submarine, they'll probably ask you not to come back.

And save me any reply that attempts to argue that this whining and negativity is "realism," or "discussion," or whatever term you prefer. It's not. No one here has an issue with those things and it isn't what is being discussed in the thread.

 

[G-PIP]

Parroting what Calipari is preaching does not constitute a valid argument. By your own argument, if winning takes any priority over being a players first then it would be ethically unacceptable - so at some level there has to be a balance between the promotion of players and the goals of the University (which is not to run an NBA farm team, but to promote a program of student athletes who strive to win a national championship)

Also, if we truly are players first, then how do we reconcile recruiting over a player we offered a scholarship telling them to come here to achieve their dreams, only to show them that if their dreams aren't met in the first year, its highly likely they'll be replaced with someone else who has dreams but also may be better than them. You really want to have a discussion about rock solid ethics of our players first approach?

I'm not sure where the argument for what the fans want came into this quote you are referencing. My post was about the makeup of what Cal has been successful with versus what he hasn't.

If you're argument is players first over what has been successful in achieving tournament wins on the court in basketball, then I'd be happy to have a discussion about the difference in goals of the University of Kentucky versus the g-league.

But, isn’t the real issue here for you, as a fan, that you want UK to win every game – and you want that to be more important than anything else to everybody associated with UK? As a fan, that’s what I want. No shame in that! If the Reds don’t win every game & the World Series every year, I’m not happy (obviously, as a Reds fan I’m unhappy a lot during baseball season) and I “demand” changes/improvements. But the question is whether or not that should be the most important goal of a college sports team - basically is Calipari’s players first approach the wrong priority to have? I say no. Calipari has it right.

Isn’t the purpose of college basically to provide a basis or spring board for each student to be successful in a chosen career? Isn’t every quality college a “students first” institution? Would you want to send your child to one that wasn’t?

Obviously, that doesn’t mean you sacrifice the interest of one student for another, or that you harm the University to further the interests of an individual student. It’s not wrong to allow another biology student to enroll in a school because he might make better grades than someone in last year’s class. The professors do the best they can for each student and their individual results are what they are.

Likewise, Calipari should and does try to do the best he can for each player while still trying to win. He doesn’t have to sacrifice the best interests of his players (plural) to do that. In fact, I would think that trying to win is the best way to prepare his players – because winning will be what their future employers seek.

The colleges know the chosen career of the top athletes is professional sports. So, Calipari prepares the players for their career, and UK reaps the financial rewards of their time in school. Classic win-win situation (leaving aside the issue of financial fairness for another time).

By the way, I like the way you post. I think we probably disagree about the proper order of priorities regarding college athletics (as opposed to professional sports). But you’re respectful, and discuss your opinions without getting angry and personal. You would think that should go without saying, but that’s so often not the case.

 

[TankedCat]

I don't invest travel time, money, etc into this place. I don't schedule around it. Your point only works if you can equate the two.

says the guy who averages 7.65 posts here *every day* for the last decade

 

[TankedCat]

Obviously, that doesn’t mean you sacrifice the interest of one student for another, or that you harm the University to further the interests of an individual student. It’s not wrong to allow another biology student to enroll in a school because he might make better grades than someone in last year’s class. The professors do the best they can for each student and their individual results are what they are.

I don't agree with the biology example because there aren't a limited number of biology positions - or at least not to any degree that would limit one student by adding another.

There is a finite number of scholarships and playing time. To bring a kid here, give him 4 months to produce and then bring in a better player does not promote a players first attitude - at least to the extent of the altruistic values we try to assign it.

If a kid goes to the G-league and washes out because he feels by the end of his sophomore year there is nothing left for him at UK, and doesn't receive a degree ( yes, lifetime scholarship, but its hard enough to get a degree in the 4 years you are here with everything free) then the university has failed him and it contradicts the stated goals.

But I confess to my hypocrisy, Whatever legal approach gives Kentucky the best chance to win, it is my belief that Cal is paid to do that. I happen to believe his current Players First approach doesn't do that - and its entirely because of his priorities of putting kids best interest ahead of the goals of the program. More to the point - putting specific kids interest ahead of the goals of the program.

I do not support running off kids that don't produce however - and the driver for that isn't some support system, its that Cal wins championships when we have a veteran experience player (or players) on the team to complement his freshmen superstars. I think Players First does run off players whether intentional or incidental to Calipari's goals.

 

[TankedCat]

By the way, I like the way you post. I think we probably disagree about the proper order of priorities regarding college athletics (as opposed to professional sports). But you’re respectful, and discuss your opinions without getting angry and personal. You would think that should go without saying, but that’s so often not the case.

thanks for noticing. Its intentional on my part. Discourse doesn't need to be personal.

 

[G-PIP]

I don't agree with the biology example because there aren't a limited number of biology positions - or at least not to any degree that would limit one student by adding another.

There is a finite number of scholarships and playing time. To bring a kid here, give him 4 months to produce and then bring in a better player does not promote a players first attitude - at least to the extent of the altruistic values we try to assign it.

If a kid goes to the G-league and washes out because he feels by the end of his sophomore year there is nothing left for him at UK, and doesn't receive a degree ( yes, lifetime scholarship, but its hard enough to get a degree in the 4 years you are here with everything free) then the university has failed him and it contradicts the stated goals.

But I confess to my hypocrisy, Whatever legal approach gives Kentucky the best chance to win, it is my belief that Cal is paid to do that. I happen to believe his current Players First approach doesn't do that - and its entirely because of his priorities of putting kids best interest ahead of the goals of the program. More to the point - putting specific kids interest ahead of the goals of the program.

I do not support running off kids that don't produce however - and the driver for that isn't some support system, its that Cal wins championships when we have a veteran experience player (or players) on the team to complement his freshmen superstars. I think Players First does run off players whether intentional or incidental to Calipari's goals.

Thanks, I understand your belief. Namely that Calipari is “putting specific kids interests ahead of the goals of the program” and that he either intentionally or incidentally runs off players who are not OAD. I don’t share that belief and haven’t seen evidence that would support it in my mind. But, then again, that’s my belief; and beliefs are usually conclusions (based on interpretations of events) that can’t or haven’t been conclusively proven.

I think we also might disagree on the propriety of Calipari encouraging certain players to put their names in the draft. This isn’t a belief, Calipari has admitted doing this.

I do, however, agree with you on the importance of experience. And I look forward to reading more of your posts and discussing other topics with you.