What's this team's ceiling?

[CatsnRoses]

I think we can all agree this team isn't very good right now, but let's say Cal rights the ship and we gradually improve throughout the season, what's the "ceiling" for this team come March?

Now obviously due to the nature of the NCAAT pretty much any top-40 team could argue their ceiling is catching fire in a bottle and winning a title, so maybe I should clarify to this to "realistic ceiling" in order to get some decent replies.

Personally, I think this team has two fatal flaws:

1. Guard play. If it's going to change, it's gotta be Hagans as he has a much higher upside than Quickley/Green. But right now the guard play is atrocious on both sides of the ball... sure Hagans can be a pest defensively at times, but his positional sense and decision making on the defensive end are bad right now. And offensively I don't even know where to start.... I will say I've noticed Hagans turning the corner and getting to the rim just a little bit more these last couple of games so hopefully that's a glimpse of things to come. We'll need him to start getting to the rim consistently if we're going to compete against top teams.

2. Lack of length and overall athleticism. Cal's best defensive teams have all had one thing in common: length at all positions. And while Keldon is 6'6 and Hagans has length for a guard, I'm not sure we have enough length across the roster to play defense the way Calipari really wants to. Travis is short and limited athletically and PJ is 6'7". So we're decidedly undersized in the low post in particular. Think this caps the upside of this team from a defensive standpoint and that right there is a major issue considering we're far away from being an elite offensive team that can offset that.

Bottom line: Realistically, I think we could grab a 5-seed and make a run to the Sweet Sixteen, but after that it'll take a lot of luck to advance. Hope I'm wrong.

 

[3kidsandme]

I think we can all agree this team isn't very good right now, but let's say Cal rights the ship and we gradually improve throughout the season, what's the "ceiling" for this team come March?

Now obviously due to the nature of the NCAAT pretty much any top-40 team could argue their ceiling is catching fire in a bottle and winning a title, so maybe I should clarify to this to "realistic ceiling" in order to get some decent replies.

Personally, I think this team has two fatal flaws:

1. Guard play. If it's going to change, it's gotta be Hagans as he has a much higher upside than Quickley/Green. But right now the guard play is atrocious on both sides of the ball... sure Hagans can be a pest defensively at times, but his positional sense and decision making on the defensive end are bad right now. And offensively I don't even know where to start.... I will say I've noticed Hagans turning the corner and getting to the rim just a little bit more these last couple of games so hopefully that's a glimpse of things to come. We'll need him to start getting to the rim consistently if we're going to compete against top teams.

2. Lack of length and overall athleticism. Cal's best defensive teams have all had one thing in common: length at all positions. And while Keldon is 6'6 and Hagans has length for a guard, I'm not sure we have enough length across the roster to play defense the way Calipari really wants to. Travis is short and limited athletically and PJ is 6'7". So we're decidedly undersized in the low post in particular. Think this caps the upside of this team from a defensive standpoint and that right there is a major issue considering we're far away from being an elite offensive team that can offset that.

Bottom line: Realistically, I think we could grab a 5-seed and make a run to the Sweet Sixteen, but after that it'll take a lot of luck to advance. Hope I'm wrong.

I do not think anybody realistically knows what a team full of freshman and sophomores ceiling is. If this team starts making 9 10 3s a game then they look totally different. We won't know how good they are until they gel. Nobody can put a date on when they come together. I think alot of people overreacting to the Seton hall loss they went nuts and hit a ton of contested 3s and Herro a high percentage volume shooter went 0 7. If Herro Quickley and Green struggle all year we will be a bubble team I'm going with the idea they won't. Cal seems to get the ship right more times than not.

 

[Rideordiewildcat]

I still feel like it's the FF and beyond. We are yet to see 3-4 of these guys play their best at the same time. Reid is older, but he is in a new place, new system, new coach and in a new role. The sophs only PJ is playing decent and sometimes he disappears. The freshman, one does great then the next game it's a different one. If this team can get on the same page they can still be dangerous. With Nick and Quade pretty much MIA it's a completely new team and like it or not there is going to be growing pains. The shots start to fall and one emerges at PG and we can be that team from the Bahamas. My main concern right now are some of the players a cancer like Quade.

 

[LadyCaytIL]

The roof



LoL @ Michael Jordan in case someone doesn’t get my reference

 

[LadyCaytIL]

we are a title contender if cal finds the right offense and we start shooting up to their capabilities.

Get our guards shooting up to close to their high school averages.... get EJ experience and confidence. ... title contender...

The fears is that we lose so many games working things out we end up with a really tough path in the tournament .... you don’t want to start out the tournament rounds 2 and 3 with your tough losible games... you want those games being elite 8 and on

 

[JC43]

National Championship if players even reach 75% potentional.
Avg 6 3ptr
Continue rebounding as we have.
Keep fta and ft% as it is.
BUT something has to happen to pull this team together. Only seen individual performances.
seems like KJ pj Reid has reached the level, if we can the guards and bench of green nick baker n ej producing positively then we will have something indeed

 

[3kidsandme]

National Championship if players even reach 75% potentional.
Avg 6 3ptr
Continue rebounding as we have.
Keep fta and ft% as it is.
BUT something has to happen to pull this team together. Only seen individual performances.
seems like KJ pj Reid has reached the level, if we can the guards and bench of green nick baker n ej producing positively then we will have something indeed

It really does come down to guard play. We have 3 5 stars at guard barely averaging 15 ppg combined. We have a knock down shooter missing wide open 3s that he probably routinely goes 7 for 7 in practice

 

[JC43]

It really does come down to guard play. We have 3 5 stars at guard barely averaging 15 ppg combined. We have a knock down shooter missing wide open 3s that he probably routinely goes 7 for 7 in practice

Frustrating, yes. The potential is there. This is Cal's most complete team since 2015. Guards, forwards, post play, draw fouls, hit ft. Cal's former weakness was ft on couple teams not this one.
3pt shooting was Achilles on the 2010 team and last year, following us to this year.
Matter of time, hope the Seton Hall game woke them up and instills in them the absolute hatred of losing.
every team loves to win, championship teams Absolutely hate to lose. Who is great on this current team? Hopefully someone or someones will make them selves known.

 

[CatsnRoses]

It really does come down to guard play. We have 3 5 stars at guard barely averaging 15 ppg combined. We have a knock down shooter missing wide open 3s that he probably routinely goes 7 for 7 in practice

Haven't seen anything from Herro to suggest he's a knock down shooter. He's got a hitch in his shot and it shows out with the poor percentages he's put up. Can he correct it? Sure, but I have to see it for an extended period of time before I'm convinced he's a good shooter.

 

[3kidsandme]

Haven't seen anything from Herro to suggest he's a knock down shooter. He's got a hitch in his shot and it shows out with the poor percentages he's put up. Can he correct it? Sure, but I have to see it for an extended period of time before I'm convinced he's a good shooter.

I've watched his jumpers over and over there is no hitch. His form is great. I would be shocked if he ends up less than 35 percent.

 

[CatsnRoses]

I've watched his jumpers over and over there is no hitch. His form is great. I would be shocked if he ends up less than 35 percent.

Watch closer. There's a hitch.

 

[Stenchymouse]

A few days ago, I was really down on this team, but honestly, I think we're close to breaking through...

Our defense has improved a lot, and we're looking a little better offensively.

All we need is for some shots to start falling and then I think it all starts to fall into place.

I am 100% sure that Herro is going to heat up soon, and that will open up the middle more for PJ and RT.

I'd like to see Hagans put more pressure on opposing defenses by looking to score when he gets into the lane.

I still think we can get to the final 4.

 

[kevcat]

After the smoke and alcohol finally cleared from Saturday, I’m feeling pretty good about this team.

This team is about to get their TWEAK ON! TWEAK OUT,

I’m really pumped about the “tweak”, and Camp Cal coming up. Ceilings? Whoa Ceilings...

 

[BBUK_anon]

After the smoke and alcohol finally cleared from Saturday, I’m feeling pretty good about this team.

This team is about to get their TWEAK ON! TWEAK OUT,

I’m really pumped about the “tweak”, and Camp Cal coming up. Ceilings? Whoa Ceilings...

LIONEL!!!!!

 

[St.PatterSoN-54-]

....is not as wet as UL's?

 

[CatPhight_rivals65113]

Hopefully a little higher than a ballroom ceiling.

 

[AGEE11]

This team, as with every young, talented UK team has a high ceiling (or roof) and low potential floor.

Our offensive efiiciency isn't that bad, our defense is a hot mess though. Doesn't help we have had people shooting out of their minds against us (Bubba, #13 for SH, all of Duke from 3).

If they get the defense turned around (and Cal has in the past almost every time) this team has Final Four talent. Add in Herro getting his shot to fall and Hagans getting confidence to score and not just look to pass and we can beat anyone.

Devil's Advocate: keep playing like we are and NIT here we come.

My thought: we win 3 staight against Utah, UNCHeat, and Vacated Title U, and the fan base calms back down.

Just hope no one on those teams starts hitting video game 3s.

 

[GonzoCat90]

What would you have said it was if Powell hadn't made a double-pump three while sitting down out of bounds? The answer is the same. It's December.

 

[ManitouDan_anon]

Haven't seen anything from Herro to suggest he's a knock down shooter. He's got a hitch in his shot and it shows out with the poor percentages he's put up. Can he correct it? Sure, but I have to see it for an extended period of time before I'm convinced he's a good shooter.

I dont think he has a hitch either . IF he did when did it develop ? on the flight home from the Bahamas ? He didnt have any trouble killing it over there . Now he cant shoot , What happened ?

 

[ManitouDan_anon]

I think I know the answer , its 100% in his head he lost his confidence and now appears unsure whether he has the green light or not . And thats tough to overcome .

 

[C5matt_rivals373900]

I still feel like it's the FF and beyond. We are yet to see 3-4 of these guys play their best at the same time. Reid is older, but he is in a new place, new system, new coach and in a new role. The sophs only PJ is playing decent and sometimes he disappears. The freshman, one does great then the next game it's a different one. If this team can get on the same page they can still be dangerous. With Nick and Quade pretty much MIA it's a completely new team and like it or not there is going to be growing pains. The shots start to fall and one emerges at PG and we can be that team from the Bahamas. My main concern right now are some of the players a cancer like Quade.

Agree we could be a FF team but only if Tyler and E.J. take their games to a higher level! They can certainly do it but it’ll take it for us to be championship caliber! I’m afraid Nick and Quade are too limited and will likely see their minutes diminish even further as we get into mid to late Jan. Don’t agree that Quade is a cancer at all—and think he’s just finding it tough to see his minutes diminish.

 

[BigBlue1992]

Our guys have gotta learn their roles on the team for it to be a good season. Think about every good team out there (college and NBA) and how they function and know what they should be doing. The players on those teams play to their strengths. With the exception of Reid Travis, our guys aren't doing that. Until it happens, we won't be any good.

 

[EliteBlue]

After re-watching the Seton Hall game, we really didn't play that terribly. If Powell doesn't hit 4-5 HIGHLY contested 3's in the final minutes, we win by 10+, even if he still went 2-5. Still yet, we got a rebound up by 1 with 30 seconds left that should have sealed it and a 85% FT shooter in Hagans went 1-2 leaving to door open. It was just a fluke-ish ending that they couldn't duplicate if we played the final minutes over again 10 times. The defense realistically wasn't that bad overall minus a handful of obvious lapses that proved costly in the end.

Our 3 defense improves. Our shooters find their rhythm. We become a F4 team.

 

[IrishMike409]

Ceiling is title.

Floor is a first weekend exit.

 

[ManitouDan_anon]

After re-watching the Seton Hall game, we really didn't play that terribly. If Powell doesn't hit 4-5 HIGHLY contested 3's in the final minutes, we win by 10+, even if he still went 2-5. Still yet, we got a rebound up by 1 with 30 seconds left that should have sealed it and a 85% FT shooter in Hagans went 1-2 leaving to door open. It was just a fluke-ish ending that they couldn't duplicate if we played the final minutes over again 10 times. The defense realistically wasn't that bad overall minus a handful of obvious lapses that proved costly in the end.

Our 3 defense improves. Our shooters find their rhythm. We become a F4 team.

Nick could have sealed it as well , he receives a great pass 3 feet from the bucket , bumbles it , allows a defender to close in on him , draws a very weak foul and misses the nearly uncontested 2 footer , then goes 1-2 at the line . Most definetly should have been an "and one"

 

[Pewee Cat]

Well I see everyone has their blue glasses on again. Sorry but don't see it, best scenario sweet 16. 10-12 loss team

 

[minjo]

This team, as with every young, talented UK team has a high ceiling (or roof) and low potential floor.

Our offensive efiiciency isn't that bad, our defense is a hot mess though. Doesn't help we have had people shooting out of their minds against us (Bubba, #13 for SH, all of Duke from 3).

If they get the defense turned around (and Cal has in the past almost every time) this team has Final Four talent. Add in Herro getting his shot to fall and Hagans getting confidence to score and not just look to pass and we can beat anyone.

Devil's Advocate: keep playing like we are and NIT here we come.

My thought: we win 3 staight against Utah, UNCHeat, and Vacated Title U, and the fan base calms back down.

Just hope no one on those teams starts hitting video game 3s.

I have to say if they jump over three feet the head hits the ceiling.

 

[akaukswoosh]

I think we can all agree this team isn't very good right now, but let's say Cal rights the ship and we gradually improve throughout the season, what's the "ceiling" for this team come March?

Now obviously due to the nature of the NCAAT pretty much any top-40 team could argue their ceiling is catching fire in a bottle and winning a title, so maybe I should clarify to this to "realistic ceiling" in order to get some decent replies.

Personally, I think this team has two fatal flaws:

1. Guard play. If it's going to change, it's gotta be Hagans as he has a much higher upside than Quickley/Green. But right now the guard play is atrocious on both sides of the ball... sure Hagans can be a pest defensively at times, but his positional sense and decision making on the defensive end are bad right now. And offensively I don't even know where to start.... I will say I've noticed Hagans turning the corner and getting to the rim just a little bit more these last couple of games so hopefully that's a glimpse of things to come. We'll need him to start getting to the rim consistently if we're going to compete against top teams.

2. Lack of length and overall athleticism. Cal's best defensive teams have all had one thing in common: length at all positions. And while Keldon is 6'6 and Hagans has length for a guard, I'm not sure we have enough length across the roster to play defense the way Calipari really wants to. Travis is short and limited athletically and PJ is 6'7". So we're decidedly undersized in the low post in particular. Think this caps the upside of this team from a defensive standpoint and that right there is a major issue considering we're far away from being an elite offensive team that can offset that.

Bottom line: Realistically, I think we could grab a 5-seed and make a run to the Sweet Sixteen, but after that it'll take a lot of luck to advance. Hope I'm wrong.

Fix two things: Three-point defense and negative assist/TO ratio and we can be pretty good.

 

[Gocats1954]

One of our point guards needs to step up. Could be Hagans or Quickley. Green possibly but he seems to be in a funk right now. Herro has to start hitting around 40 per cent of his threes which I feel like he is capable. If just these two things happen we will be a much better team and can make a deep run in March.

 

[jackcarlson]

we have all the pieces to be a title contender. we could not say that about the last couple of years. our guys look a little discombobulated, but we have all the talent and athletes at the positions we need, it is just going to take some work.

 

[svoils]

LIONEL!!!!!

Thanks a lot, now I'll be singing that song in my head at work the rest of today!

 

[BBUK_anon]

Thanks a lot, now I'll be singing that song in my head at work the rest of today!

It is along the same line as what another poster who shall remain nameless did to me a few days ago when he posted;

Saginaw Michigan by Lefty Frizzell, I am still rerunning that darn song in my mind... The chump...

 

[minjo]

It is not the coaching that is the reason for our downfall, it has to do with recruiting, which is not as inviting to recruits as it was a few years ago.
Just look at the number of recruits that said thank you for recruiting us, but we prefer to play elsewhere.
We are in a down cycle, and it will continue for a while before it gets better.
It is all about what have you done lately.
Whit this year's results so far, we should expect more of this pattern to continue.

 

[bookerfan66]

Sweet 16.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

I have to imagine our collective ceiling goes up with Green gone. Not sure we WILL hit that ceiling because we did lose a bit of experience. But Green's deficiencies started to show, maybe not quite as coach-able (considering today's events, not growing his PG skills, lack of defense). I don't think he was going to get much better this year.. Don't think he really wanted to..

To be honest, I kinda have this same worry with PJ, but thankfully, PJ has the athleticism and has his minutes cut out for him.

But as a whole, last year's class (adding in Hami) might be Cal's weakest from a coachability/mentality standpoint.

 

[minjo]

Sweet 16.

I would not bet on it.
I am not usually so pessimistic, but false optimism is not going to change things.
Having said that, I hope things change for the better soon.

 

[Aike]

Still Final Four level talent. Will need to take advantage of the schedule and position ourselves with a good seed. Don’t want to go in as a 4-5 again (or worse).

 

[JC43]

Think our chances for a title improved today

 

[Longtrip]

I've watched his jumpers over and over there is no hitch. His form is great. I would be shocked if he ends up less than 35 percent.

I was wondering if all this talk from the coaches that he has to catch and shoot quickly and without a second of hesitation has caused his shot to be lost, at least for some time, until he adjusts.

 

[minjo]

Think our chances for a title improved today

I think so too.
Change of chemistry was needed.
Guard play is very important.
It is the quarterback position of basketball.