Not worried about recruiting. Recruiting is good enough, especially knowing we have great coaching to fall back on... wait.
WTH has happened to our recruiting?
- Thread starter sambowieshin_rivals
- Start date
Skal hasn't really done squat in the NBA either. Richards will be lucky to play in Europe. It's just so puzzling with how well Cal developed KAT and Anthony Davis that we can't seem to get any top tier bigs any more.
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anon_q409idbs5m40a
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My guess is that neither Skal or Richards were that good to begin with. Richards looks like someone that never started playing until HS and has arguably the worst hands ever on any UK athlete, including receivers in football. He's going to have a tough time again this season with physical play, especially when we start conference games. We need a Tyler Davis or just anyone that will mix it up underneath.
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anon_q409idbs5m40a
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Are you suggesting that Cal won't play the $$$$$ game?? If so, does that mean he did when we were landing the top dogs? How exactly do you piss off Nike??
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anon_q409idbs5m40a
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This is what really stinks about the college game in this era. Not only does a coach have to keep players and boosters happy but now they've got to worry about the influence of shoe companies.
Well, I would agree with this except that Duke landed the top three guys. That kind of blows this theory out of the water.
No I definitely don't think we don't have the talent to win titles.
I also don't believe it's how Cal is using them or not using them either.
I don't think people realize just how much a role lucky plays into all of this.
I also don't believe it's how Cal is using them or not using them either.
I don't think people realize just how much a role lucky plays into all of this.
Agree with the posters who say it's a combination of things including OAD HS kids realizing they don't necessarily need a coach like Cal to reach the next level. What I don't understand is how Sean Miller is still landing some top recruits after Arizona was mentioned during the corruption trial.
Phil Knight was ticked off when Cal blew off invite to play in his tournament last year
I’m glad you brought this up op, as it hasn’t been discussed yet in the other 5000 threads. Keep beating the dead horse. Cal will get it right don’t worry
I am of the opinion that most recruits know very little about and probably don't care about traditional UK basketball. Most in the Cal era are here because of him.
Had Mitch made a bad hire we might be talking 3&4 star with a rare 5 star.
We won't know for sure till Cal's gone. JMO
I think it has to do with the elite players today vs elite players in the past. Not totally, mind you, but a big part. I think the elite players today don't really care who they play for because they only plan on being at the school one year. No loyalty. It's more me, me, me for them. The publicity, the brand, etc. Just look at some of the things like stringing people along with announcements to keep name in headlines, going to a lesser school so they are the man, etc. It's not all of it for every player but I can see a difference lately. Look at Anthony Davis John Wall, Cousins, etc. They were great and only here one year, but their attitude was different. Their loyalty to UK still shows. Sorry if I rambled. Sometimes the thoughts in my head go faster than my fingers typing. lol
I am worried. I worry all the time about UK basketball. That is why I started thread #5001 on this topic. I am a neurotic UK fan and nothing can stop me. Whiskey helps.
In today's game if you play a guy to be a "rim protector" he needs to be extremely elite at that if he is not a post up threat and can't catch the ball on the move.
Few things IMO.
1). Cal may have been right. This generation may have grown tired of being told they have to work for everything or anything. They don't in HS and know they are only going to be around for a year, so why would they want to in college? He may need to change is narrative for some kids if he wants them....I kinda don't want him too, cus I like his message.
2). This is one I've started thinking of lately.... Cats have had so many stars in both college and NBA. What if this is spinning negative now? What if players are afraid they won't live up to expectations of a Davis, Wall, Cousins, Towns, etc? Maybe they don't want the pressure or don't want to be just another UK guy in the league.
3) Whether we want to admit it or not, Capel could recruit. K embracing 1 and Done was a major deal. Duke is a major player and sort of took the LeBron push- like him saying he would have gone to Duke and stuff. This created a snowball. Let's see how K does with Scheyer as lead recruiter instead of Capel.
4). We need another assistant like O. I think Justus is good (see Wiseman mom comments) but Barbee needs to go. This Iis concerning too because Cal is massively loyal and Barbee was one of his first players at UMass if I recall.
5) With the exception of Knox class I don't see the argument of a major slip. I also don't think up until this year there have been many guys even close to Wall, Cousins, Davis, Towns, etc over the past several years. Obviously Zion/Barrett seem to be...but besides that, maybe Simmons, Bagley was ok but not on that level- anyone else? I think Fox/Monk/Adebayo class was 100% Elite and could have won title if not for UNC. Remains to be seen with our current group- I haven't given up on them just yet.
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Yea you were a little slow with the arrangement for Zion and pork bell Capel made him a good bye present for that Rat Face Bastard at Dook!
Dook bought and paid for Williamson, hell do you think with the Jailhawk hawk assistant talking about it on tape the message wasn’t out there?
But take Skal for example. He wasn't a miss. He was #1 player in the country per Rivals.
Overall the whole narrative of recruiting slipping is a bit overblown. This all goes back to 2015. If we beat Wisonsin and then win title, we have 1 more, Cal has 2 and Duke has one less. It was a deflating loss.
All of this talk about recruiting wouldn't be happening now. Instead it is as if 38-1 didn't happen because we lost. Even if we won against Kemba, we wouldn't be having this conversation. This is all about titles and we all think Cal should have at minimum 2 right now.
I love Cal don't want him to ever leave, just being honest.
All of this talk about recruiting wouldn't be happening now. Instead it is as if 38-1 didn't happen because we lost. Even if we won against Kemba, we wouldn't be having this conversation. This is all about titles and we all think Cal should have at minimum 2 right now.
I love Cal don't want him to ever leave, just being honest.
If any one of us knew the answers to recruiting/coaching, we would probably find our way onto the staff at UK.
College basketball seems to be just as political as our "real" political parties.
Before anyone starts blowing off about bringing politics into this, I am not, but Cal reminds me of someone in the mode of Donald Trump in the sense he is his own man; Cal could care less what others think, he is doing what he thinks is right. Trump is like that, only his decisions and texts effect much more than Big Blue Country.
Did skipping Nike showcase harm? You can bet it didn't help us.
Kids today are much different. Every generation of kids change and for me, the coaches must change to some degree or they will be lose out.
Looking back at past coaches like Crum and Knight, two coaches we know all about, neither changed with the game and the game past them up.
We do not need to have all 5 stars to win. Watching Gonzaga last night and I did not know a single player but they were sure a good team. Then you take Duke. All 5 stars. All very good. Not knocking Duke players, but some of them don't seem to like to pass the ball when they should.
At UK, these same players would either pass the ball or sit down.
These kids know Cal is all business and it's his way or not.
For me, the thing that I would like to see move in a different direction, is our offensive sets. We stand around and watch the ball more than most teams. Kids don't seem to like to play defense anymore. With Cal, you better play or sit. One has to think these kids know this and when they hear all the negative crap from others, this plays big time in their decisions.
Does anyone think Duke players would stand still for only getting 7-8 shots a game like AD got? What about playing second fiddle to John Wall like Eric did? Things turned out good for Eric but Wall got all the press.
Just don't think many of these 5 stars today like that.
I watch this team and see a player wearing shoes like Keldon did and think, OMG. Players seem to be in for this sort of crap, crazy looking shoes. There is another league where players seem to care too much about their shoes also.
With Cal, we are winning and do so cleanly. I will take that.
College basketball seems to be just as political as our "real" political parties.
Before anyone starts blowing off about bringing politics into this, I am not, but Cal reminds me of someone in the mode of Donald Trump in the sense he is his own man; Cal could care less what others think, he is doing what he thinks is right. Trump is like that, only his decisions and texts effect much more than Big Blue Country.
Did skipping Nike showcase harm? You can bet it didn't help us.
Kids today are much different. Every generation of kids change and for me, the coaches must change to some degree or they will be lose out.
Looking back at past coaches like Crum and Knight, two coaches we know all about, neither changed with the game and the game past them up.
We do not need to have all 5 stars to win. Watching Gonzaga last night and I did not know a single player but they were sure a good team. Then you take Duke. All 5 stars. All very good. Not knocking Duke players, but some of them don't seem to like to pass the ball when they should.
At UK, these same players would either pass the ball or sit down.
These kids know Cal is all business and it's his way or not.
For me, the thing that I would like to see move in a different direction, is our offensive sets. We stand around and watch the ball more than most teams. Kids don't seem to like to play defense anymore. With Cal, you better play or sit. One has to think these kids know this and when they hear all the negative crap from others, this plays big time in their decisions.
Does anyone think Duke players would stand still for only getting 7-8 shots a game like AD got? What about playing second fiddle to John Wall like Eric did? Things turned out good for Eric but Wall got all the press.
Just don't think many of these 5 stars today like that.
I watch this team and see a player wearing shoes like Keldon did and think, OMG. Players seem to be in for this sort of crap, crazy looking shoes. There is another league where players seem to care too much about their shoes also.
With Cal, we are winning and do so cleanly. I will take that.
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anon_q409idbs5m40a
Guest
You are correct; he was highly rated but never panned out. After watching him play in the McDonald's All-Star game I thought he would be a star at UK.
Style of play might play a role. Loaded with talent and plodding.
Do you understand what you just posted? We have 2 top 10 players and a top 50 player. We’re only rated in the 10 at this point, but the spring signing period is not here yet, and I can assure you, Cal will sign other top players. If Cal has never had worse than a number 2 ranked class, why in the hell would you ever doubt him? It’s not over yet. Some of you people are absolute idiots, and I’m including you in that group.
No ****, we have 2 top 10 guys right now and we are still going after 2 or 3 more of the top 10. We can't have them all. What if we land Hurt and McDaniels? Let me guess. Cal will be the man again. Or if we get one and a big time reclass. It's early in recruiting for the big names and we have 2 studs and a great player from Ky that everyone wanted on this board. So that's 3 good players in Nov.. Cal isn't done. When have you seen him be done this early. I would be surprised if we don't end up with the #1 or 2 class again. People need to chill. 2 top 10 guys as of now and recruiting is bad. 4-1 and the season is over. What the hell?
It’s not the amount of 5-stars, it’s the level. Legit top 3 players are usually on another level. Nick Richards and Ashton Hagans are nice players to get but they just won’t have the impact of a John Wall, Anthony Davis, MKG etc.
From 2009-15 guys on the level of Williamson & Barrett would have gone to Kentucky. Cal basically used to walk into the EYBL gym, say “I’m takin those four guys! Deal with it bitches!!” and saunter out.
Don’t misunderstand me, I want Cal as the coach for as long as possible, but I feel pretty strongly that if some adjustments are made, UK basketball can move up a notch and they’d have more years like 10, 12, & 15 and fewer like last year.
And no I certainly haven’t given up on this team at all. I still think they can be a force in March. But I also think that if they’d landed Williamson or Barrett, they’d already be that force.
Like others have said:
1) other schools are playing the “one and done” now
2) we know some blue bloods are definitely paying for talent, with the help of (all) shoe companies
3) players realize the nba drafts strictly one potential now (you guys don’t realize, just the word potential has hurt college basketball more than anything)
4) guys we get go pro anyways due to a) potential and b) you’re supposed to go pro early at Kentucky
Everything adds up
1) other schools are playing the “one and done” now
2) we know some blue bloods are definitely paying for talent, with the help of (all) shoe companies
3) players realize the nba drafts strictly one potential now (you guys don’t realize, just the word potential has hurt college basketball more than anything)
4) guys we get go pro anyways due to a) potential and b) you’re supposed to go pro early at Kentucky
Everything adds up
Well, maybe, but K let's all three play major minutes and hasn't screwed with their heads.
Excellent post, and almost exactly where I'm at.
A timeline of Cal as recruiting God:
07- Gets Derrick Rose, and from a basketball perspective, it could hardly work any better. Memphis nearly win a title, Rose goes #1 overall.
08- Gets Tyreke Evans, and again it works out really well.
09- Has Cousins and Xavier Henry committed to Memphis, has a great shot at Wall. He's not explicitly selling one and done yet, but players see what happened with Rose and Evans, so it's there. Cal comes to UK, brings Cousins with him, adds Wall and Bledsoe. After this season, it is now explicitly about one and done, and Cal is way ahead of everyone else.
10- Gets Knight, gets Jones to flip (or do what he meant all along), gets Kanter before he explodes at the Hoop Summit, but also does miss on quite a few- Harrison Barnes, Perry Jones, Tobias Harris, CJ Leslie.
11-14= peak power Cal. He gets an MKG commit right after MKG's junior year, gets Teague to back out of a verbal (clearly because of the one and done idea), and AD doesn't seem to hesitate at all once UK offers. Wiltjer commits with UK putting in shockingly little effort. Trend pretty much continues for the next 3 years, with a miss here and there (Muhammad, Wiggins, Mudiay stand out), but every year it seems very possible for UK to reel in 4 top 10 players, and most recruitments seem easy.
15- this is when it seems to change. Ben Simmons has too many LSU connections for anyone else to have a chance. His season shows you don't have to play for an elite team to go #1 overall. Skal is the highest profile failure Cal has had- a kid projected no lower than top 10 doesn't really pan out at all. Duke is coming off a title, and is now fully committed to recruiting kids who clearly aren't spending more than a year on campus. And really, it was a weak class overall.
And I think everything after goes along with those 15 trends. 16 was a great UK class, but it was also a great overall class, and UK missed on the highest profile kids. And mostly has since. It seems like a much more competitive field now, and I wonder if Cal's style of kind of standing in the background, looming like Mt Olympus, not getting involved with even elite players really early, and often being the last major program to offer, is having an effect.
It shouldn't be taken lightly that we are getting visits. UK is still attracting the top talent. Wiseman, Carey, Stewart, many 2020 guys, etc. have spent time on officials and unofficials. However, something about those visits just isn't lighting them up. I'm thinking this is where UK really needs to step it up in a big way. Perhaps this is where the coaches are being complacent, using old methods that aren't getting through with the kids.
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