Platoon System 2018 Edition
- Thread starter preacher_tom
- Start date
It doesn't need to be a "platoon" to play 9 or 10 guys. We didn't platoon in 96 but 10 guys played 9+ minutes. I think we could see something like that, with KJ playing the most minutes (In 96, Walker played the most with 27 mpg) and Baker getting the fewest (Allen Edwards played 9 mpg).
This is correct IMO we will play 9 a lot and 10 really if Baker is healthy.
Not platoon but balloon...as in the lead continues to balloon for the Cats.
I think we're all going to need to see something from Jemarl Baker before we say it's 10 players. Regarding platooning, I don't see that ever happening again. We may see 5 guys at the scorer's table a few times this year, but platoons meant more than that.
Platoons meant 5 guys played with each other exclusively on the floor. They didn't mix and match.
Platoons meant equal time for all. Cal may have given some extra time to a group that was playing very well in that game.
Now, we should all remember this- as the 2014-15 season progressed, and especially after the injury to Poythress, the platoons system wasn't the same. Trey Lyles ended up getting extra minutes in the process. Eventually he went away from the platoons to some degree.
I don't think we will see a system where 5 guys always play together and never with the 5 other guys.
I don't think we will see a system where we always see 5 guys at the scorer's table checking in.
I don't think we will see a system that attempts to equalize minutes.
I think we will see a lot of substitutions- especially if our first 10 guys are all healthy.
I think we will see various combinations of players together on the floor.
I think we will see certain guys get more minutes than others.
I think these roles will become more clear against stiffer competition.
If healthy, I think all 10 of these guys will get a good share of minutes.
Bottom line: this is all a great problem to have. I'm ready to tip it off.
Platoons meant 5 guys played with each other exclusively on the floor. They didn't mix and match.
Platoons meant equal time for all. Cal may have given some extra time to a group that was playing very well in that game.
Now, we should all remember this- as the 2014-15 season progressed, and especially after the injury to Poythress, the platoons system wasn't the same. Trey Lyles ended up getting extra minutes in the process. Eventually he went away from the platoons to some degree.
I don't think we will see a system where 5 guys always play together and never with the 5 other guys.
I don't think we will see a system where we always see 5 guys at the scorer's table checking in.
I don't think we will see a system that attempts to equalize minutes.
I think we will see a lot of substitutions- especially if our first 10 guys are all healthy.
I think we will see various combinations of players together on the floor.
I think we will see certain guys get more minutes than others.
I think these roles will become more clear against stiffer competition.
If healthy, I think all 10 of these guys will get a good share of minutes.
Bottom line: this is all a great problem to have. I'm ready to tip it off.
I know Cal has sworn off the platoon
He did and looking back I think it was a mistake. Though many will disagree.
I think losing Poythress hurt us more than losing the platoon system did. That left a big hole at the 3 spot, especially defensively. And while it had its benefits, the platoon did have drawbacks. It hurt flexibility - some guys/lineups are going to match up better against some opponents - and it prevented guys from getting game experience playing with each other. So when you have foul trouble or late in the tournament do need to adjust the lineup to match up with a good opponent, you have guys who don't have as much time together on the court as they might otherwise have.
Some of you have platoons wrong.
They do not necessarily mean equal time for all (10). You can do a 60/40 or a 70/30 one.
They do not necessarily mean equal time for all (10). You can do a 60/40 or a 70/30 one.
As others have said platoons is equal playing time. When you check the box score of close games I think KJ will have 30 t mpg by his name
I wouldn't be surprised to see that happen at some point this season, like when he's ticked off at the effort of the guys on the floor. But I doubt we'll see it very often.
I personally would prefer a group of guys clearly separate themselves. Take advantage of the depth, but I’d feel a lot better if certain guys win the clear majority of time because that means they ended up being really good. As opposed to the current situation where most of these guys are at least solid, but we dont know if we have any really great players on this team. Things are a lot easier when there is a clear hierarchy.
Let's not call it a platoon. Call it shifts, like in hockey. Whatever you call it, let's just beat our opponents into submission by sheer numbers.
I loved the platoon, and it was so effective. Until it had to be scrapped because of the Poythress injury.
IF (big if) Baker could play and was effective, I could see a 60/40 platoon (maybe 65/35) where the "starters" were 7 on, 3 off, 6 on, 4 off in the 1st half, and then 4 off, 6 on, 3 off, 7 on in the 2nd half.
IF (big if) Baker could play and was effective, I could see a 60/40 platoon (maybe 65/35) where the "starters" were 7 on, 3 off, 6 on, 4 off in the 1st half, and then 4 off, 6 on, 3 off, 7 on in the 2nd half.
Call it what you want, but I like certain players on this team playing together.
Green and Quickley play well together.
Washington and Richards play well together. I like Travis and Montgomery together.
Hagans has a rapport with Montgomery.
Hagans fits well with Herro, since one is a defensive stud and the other an offensive stud.
I would like to at least see Cal play those combos together a lot.
If Baker is on the same level as the other 9, then 5 in, 5 out is a real possibility. I wouldn't play them equal minutes, though. I would go 5 in, 5 out to start the game, then finish with the best 7 (for that particular game).
Green and Quickley play well together.
Washington and Richards play well together. I like Travis and Montgomery together.
Hagans has a rapport with Montgomery.
Hagans fits well with Herro, since one is a defensive stud and the other an offensive stud.
I would like to at least see Cal play those combos together a lot.
If Baker is on the same level as the other 9, then 5 in, 5 out is a real possibility. I wouldn't play them equal minutes, though. I would go 5 in, 5 out to start the game, then finish with the best 7 (for that particular game).
He made a good point that it worked with poythress but once he was out for the year there was no platoon. Platooning is a gamble bc if one guy gets injured during the season it will throw off the chemistry. Cal needs to play rotations with the best 8-9 players maybe 10 once baker is cleared.
I
did not read all of this, but I saw that Frankunderwood liked it and that was enough to tell me to stop reading.
Not always true. Platooning doesn’t necessarily mean you HAVE to platoon the entire game. There’s nothing to say you couldn’t platoon for say 30 minutes then use the last 10 minutes to try different lineups or combinations or as a means to reward those who played well with extra minutes.
The 2014-15 team showed that it generally only takes about 30 minutes of platooning before the other teams is mentally and physically exhausted anyway.
Again not true. One could easily devise a platoon system where instead of 5-5, a superior group plays 6 minutes to 4, or 7 minutes to 3 etc.
If anyone ever watches a regular 48-minute NBA game that's how they substitute generally. The starters generally play 8-10 minutes to start the game, then the subs come in near the end of the 1st quarter and play into the beginning of the 2nd quarter, and then the starters come back to finish the half. By substituting this way, and with halftime, it gives the starters the majority of the time on the court but also allows for strategic rest times.
There was as I see it three different periods of the 2014-15 season, each of about equal duration.
The 1st part was when Poythress was healthy and for the most part UK used strict platoons, and they were the most dominating team that college basketball has seen in quite some time.
The 2nd part post-injury UK still platooned, although with some variation. For example they might have leaked one player from one squad to another, or they inserted Dominique Hawkins.
From an efficiency standpoint the team still performed very well, albeit there was some erosion from what they were doing earlier in the season.
It was during this time, BTW, that Cal experimented with dropping the platoons altogether, in games against Ole Miss and Texas A&M. Both of those teams UK struggled and both went into overtime with UK nearly losing. If anything, that should have been a wake-up call that going away from platoons was not a smart decision.
The 3rd part was much harder to define as Cal continued to tinker with the lineup and the substitution pattern. He still may have started the game with a few platoon-like rotations but generally by the middle to end of the 1st half he had abandoned any type of set rotation, preferring to yank players more and more randomly.
As expected, UK's efficiency dropped dramatically. They were still a very good team, they just from an effectiveness standpoint started to resemble a typical Calipari team rather than an all-time world beater team like they were earlier in the year.
You are right, and wrong.
Yes a platoon is 5 for 5.
BUT ..... the two groups of 5 don't have to play the same amount of time.
So one group could play 24 minutes, and the other group 16; or it could be 26 & 14, or 22 & 18.
The NBA is the perfect way to sub and keep the best players rested for crunch time. With the amount of Tv timeouts and stops plus 8 less gam minutes it is even easier to keep college guys fresher as well.
I feel flattered that I’m on his mind so often... so much so he’s already engaging with me on one of his non banned accounts lol.... I must be living rent free in his dome piece [smoke]
So what you are getting at is that when UK was strictly platooning, they historically great. That is the way I see it too. I don’t know why people have a problem with platoons. The idea is to win and if that gives you the best opportunity, then just do it.
Technically, yes it could be (if it were done in 5 for 5 transitions).
Although that uneven of a ratio would remove one of the big benefits of a platoon, being able to wear-out your opponent, by you keeping fresh guys on the court at all times.
I think anything beyond a 26-14 (which is 65% & 35%) split would mean your top 5 would be on the court a minute or two at a time where they are tired.
What happens when guys are tired? They get beat on defense, they don't work as hard to get open, they may sandbag just a bit (especially on defense).
I guess I just don't see what's so wrong with the 2014/15 version of the platoon. I thought it was great and it looked like the players enjoyed doing it.
Trying to mix and match ten players is going to take most of the season to iron out, but putting two teams of five together and having them work together as units will get them more cohesive in a shorter amount of time.
This looks like a perfect team to platoon with, but Cal knows best, he'll get it figured out. It's a nice problem to have.
Trying to mix and match ten players is going to take most of the season to iron out, but putting two teams of five together and having them work together as units will get them more cohesive in a shorter amount of time.
This looks like a perfect team to platoon with, but Cal knows best, he'll get it figured out. It's a nice problem to have.
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Not really hung up on the platoon thing. We had an amazing group that year so who is to say we would have not been historically great defensively playing 5 and subbing the top 3 or 4 guys situationally. "Platooning" was a great quote. The metaphor about tanks coming over the hill was a great sound bite but I don't think it was the reason we were good early on. We had tons of talent and an experienced backcourt. For Cal that is pretty dangerous. This year I just want to see guys gel and maintain intensity and the rest will take care of itself.
Having no starters in the game isn’t the same thing. You can make up your own definition, but when people bring it up on here, they mean what we did in 2015. Mass substitutions, and everyone plays close to the same amount of time. What others are suggesting is just a normal sub rotation pattern. It’s silly this keeps getting brought up.
People hate it, not because of its effectiveness, but because it killed our chances as a great class in 2016. Elite kids getting 21 minutes a game wasn't something they seemed interested in. Opposing coaches killed us on the recruiting trail as a result, and Cal swore he'd never use it again.
Already being reported of all practices being a dog fight because of literally having 2 of the top players in the country at all five positions and the players concern for getting minutes. Once Montgomery and Baker join back in it will really be fun.
And yet Cal also talks about playing for the team instead of yourself, being your brother's keeper, and bragging about Anthony Davis & MKG taking the 4th and 5th most FGA on a national championship team etc.
In other words Cal recruits and coaches players to be unselfish and to not be afraid of competition. Platoons should be right down that alley. It probably did hurt that recruiting class but that class made some strange decisions beyond not going to UK (Newman to Miss. State, Jaylen Brown to Cal etc.) Not sure how many of those would have ended up at UK regardless, or whether they were the type of unselfish player that Calipari prefers.