Need those multi-year players for sure...(Does Cal have any younger sons? I wish...)
Cam Reddish Nearing a Decision
- Thread starter MWes11
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Need those multi-year players for sure...(Does Cal have any younger sons? I wish...)
Lol yepp. we need multi year guys, top 5-10'guys AND top 1-3 guys every single year otherwise our recruiting has fallen off lol.
#1 (mostly) or #2 class year in and year out is "slacking" apparently
With what we likely have returning from this years team, give me Zion, Barrett, Quickley, and one or two other top 20 players and I like our chances to go far next year.
I'd gladly see Reddish at Duke if that means Barrett comes to UK. No contest between the 2 as to who is the alpha dog.
Barrett and Williamson as our wings. Yes, please. :smiley:
I also really like Reddish but Barrett tore that USA team apart.
Phuck Duke, all the know it alls had Knox all wrapped up with a pretty pink bow for those bastards.
Duke was considered number 1 in 2014, although our class ended up a little better, imo.
We had the top class in 2015 and 2016. Duke just passed us this year.
As far as pure talent, we had Towns and Booker to their Okafor and Winslow.
Then we had Murray to their Ingram. Ever so slight advantage for them.
Next we had Fox and Monk to their Tatum. Advantage us, imo.
So it hasn't really been the gap that some are implying, even with top end talent.
Bagley is really good. He will probably be the best out of this next group. But I'll probably wait and see what everyone looks like.
Again....we're not talking about whose players end up playing better in college but recruiting class rankings. Depending on which service you (ESPN, 247sports, Scout, Rivals, etc) use it's different for all those years. Last year Duke had the unanimous #1 ranked class. Since 2014 it's been UK & Duke with top 2 classes but nothing unanimous except last season & that belong to Duke.
The issue we we're discussing is Cal was pretty much smoking Coach K 2009-13 then something changed for Duke in 2014 & they closed the recruiting gap. The question has been "what changed"? What is the sell? What is Duke doing different that is making them such a draw that they were not 2009-13?
I don't believe that's accurate regarding last year's class. I think UK's was the higher rated class of the two. The year before that, Murray wasn't even added to the equation, thus Duke having the better class, IIRC.
It’s reasonable to infer that the addition of Jeff Capel (who was ousted at Oklahoma in ’11) and the overemphasis on Coach K’s Team USA influence were the combining factors for Duke.
Now, with their momentum, Coach K and Capel are selling Team USA and Coach K’s legacy as the face of college hoops. That and the fact that a OAD can go to Duke and still feel like he is a higher class of OAD due Coach K and Duke’s academic history. Parents are buying it.
It’s going to continue to work until K steps down. I suspect he might stick around five more years. That would put him at about 76 or 77 years-old when he finally retires.
Here's to them falling flat on their faces again this year, creating a dip in recruiting. K is not cut out to field a heavily dominated freshmen team, IMO. We'll see more proof of that this season. [cheers]
This is a slight overstatement. It’s arguable who had the #1 class in ’16 and ’15. Duke was ahead of UK in ’15 until Murray committed. ESPN never adjusted their rankings, but everyone else did, and those who did mostly put UK at #1.
Last year, UK and Duke were too close to call. Duke landed Tatum, Giles, Jackson, and Bolden. UK landed five top 25 guys, including three in the top 10. Depending on where you looked, it was split. The RCSI had UK #1 last year.
That said, it doesn’t really matter. The difference is often so miniscule to make a dramatic change in the landscape. I’d like to see UK land a top 5 guy soon, and I think they will, but Cal is bringing in 7 top 30 guys this year, and returning two five star players. He’s going to land another 5 or 6 top 30 guys for the next class, too. That stuff matters, and we should remember it matters.
There was a day and age when no one thought he could replicate that 2009 class, with 4 or 5 five stars in a class. He’s done it pretty much every year he’s been here. Coach K is living off his legacy at the end of his career, and recruits are buying tickets to see his farewell tour and get in on the “I played for K” mantra before it’s too late.
It’s okay, too. I’m cool with it for the most part. K is 12 years older than Calipari. Cal will reap the harvest the same way in a half decade when he becomes the legacy coach with a real personality, unlike K.
In the meantime, we’ll just have to manage if Duke squeezes by us on the trail by a few inches from time to time. The good news is that Coach K’s legacy now involves taking questionable players. No one will forget that he went from the celibate monk on the recruiting trail, who espoused the gospel of virgin purity, to a promiscuous ***** monger willing to climb into bed in the dark underbelly of recruiting red light districts. He’s willing to shack up with Bagley and Duval, and have noncommittal one night stands with Thornton, Jeter, and others. He’s no different, and I hope the narrative changes to fit the reality.
K overtly sold out, which is fine, but it’s also great to see that his moral tide has lowered back to sea level.
I can certainly drink to that.
It will be interesting to watch. The chemistry red flags are more apparent than they were with last year’s Duke team. Those principally manning the chemistry firing squad from last year – Bolden and Allen – are both back, and Duke has added multiple me-first guys in Bagley and Duval. Duval could surprise a few of us and lead the team in a semi-transcendent way, but it won’t surprise me to see it all fall to pieces in a matter of months, with K scrabbling to insert every philosophical tool at his disposal to get his squad back on track in time.
Come March, late game situations will be interesting for them. Duval, Bagley, Carter, and Allen will all expect to have the ball in their hands. Who will defer? If a few of them relent and sacrifice for the team, Duke could win it all obviously.
We’ll just have to wait and see. In the meantime, Cal has assembled a pretty decent team with 9 former top 30 recruits. That’s pretty cool, too.
Yeah, I understand the rankings now. Duke having one more three star was the difference....Of course UK's 5 star didn't out-weigh Dukes 4 star and 3 star... I understand perfectly now how they do it. It is quantity not quality! That's the ticket![eyeroll]
Not sure we're getting Barrett, but I agree that we're in great shape with Quickley and Zion.
Coach K is older than all of the major conferences combined.
One thing that's clear to me is that Calipari's recruits have had more success then Coach K's. At the end of the day that's what should matter.
I know what we're talking about. Do you?
Or maybe you just don't know what unanimous means. Because our class was ranked higher than Duke's in 2016.
Not that I really care. Because I really don't care if our class is 1st or 4th or 12th.
But I do like accuracy. So I'm not going to let another poster just make stuff up without pointing it out.
I'm sure you understand.
Now that that's out of the way, I think plenty others have nailed the closing of the gap.
1. Duke fully embraced one and done.
2. Slime bag Jeff Capel was hired.
3. Antigua left.
Not sure anyone mentioned the other reason, but it's that other schools are also plucking off one and dones. California. Washington. LSU. Missouri. And of course Arizona, UCLA, and Kansas.
I guess what irks me, is that there's all this crying about us not getting top 5 guys all the sudden.
Apparently Skal doesn't count, since he struggled. OK then.
How about Murray, who was the 4th freshman drafted in 2016? Oh, he doesn't count either. He must have been 6th or something. Doesn't matter if Cal thought he was top 5, he played like top 5, and was drafted top 5. Because, scouts.
How about Fox? He was the 5th freshman drafted. See above paragraph for why that doesn't matter.
And while we are at it, why not toss in Malik Monk? He was arguably a top 5 player last year too. I mean, he literally won the Jerry West award for best shooting guard. As a freshman.
So yeah, Duke is recruiting well. And we are too. And some of our guys who weren't ranked top 5 probably actually were. And vice versa.
So maybe we can just watch the games and see what happens. Plenty of time to cry about being one player short in April.
Apparently Skal doesn't count, since he struggled. OK then.
How about Murray, who was the 4th freshman drafted in 2016? Oh, he doesn't count either. He must have been 6th or something. Doesn't matter if Cal thought he was top 5, he played like top 5, and was drafted top 5. Because, scouts.
How about Fox? He was the 5th freshman drafted. See above paragraph for why that doesn't matter.
And while we are at it, why not toss in Malik Monk? He was arguably a top 5 player last year too. I mean, he literally won the Jerry West award for best shooting guard. As a freshman.
So yeah, Duke is recruiting well. And we are too. And some of our guys who weren't ranked top 5 probably actually were. And vice versa.
So maybe we can just watch the games and see what happens. Plenty of time to cry about being one player short in April.
Yep. All this.
Especially with regard to last year. There was a clump of guys in the 4-7ish range that you could put in any order and not be wrong. We had two of em.
Ole Aike,
Not that it matters what I think but I like your last several posts. (And a bunch of others over the years.) I have read a lot of your posts and obviously many liked them before "liking" was cool.
I shy away from commenting on basketball specifics and strategy and just try to enjoy UK and what it is and respond lightheartedly when I can (Mostly due to my lack of basketball knowledge other than loving basketball and UK.) but when I read a good post I state it.
Cal and company is and are doing fine. (Things change when people are involved and of course when people are interchanged in the equation annually things must change annually.) (IE; different recruits in different years of recruiting.) People such as Cal should not be judged statically. People, or situations involving people to where various other people determine outcomes such as in Cal's annual recruiting classes have to be judged dynamically. Yep, I stated all that to state this; Cal is dynamic or as JJ used to state; Dy-no-MITE!!!
Good Post(s)...[thumb2]
Our 2016 class was #1 with all services that counted Murray. ESPN did not & Duke was #1.
I haven't posted anything that wasn't true. The whole thing was started by whoever the poster was that thought UK has had the #1 recruiting class every year Cal has been here.
Not that it really matters when comparing classes because both Duke and Kentucky have had great recruiting classes. Personally I believe freshman play a whole lot better under Cal then they do Coach K. I believe our players adjust the NBA much faster then Coach K's players. The numbers do not lie
BTW... I'm not the one that's been crying about Calipari recruiting...lol. I have been interested in why Duke has picked up steam the last 4 years. They have not hurt UK... just find it ironic they had a pretty large dry spell and all of a sudden they're the cool thing again.
Murray was in 15, not 16.
You said Duke was UNANIMOUS in 16. Nope. We had the top class.
Just own it. Stop digging.
Serious question: is @gracetoyou a closet Fluke fan? He was posting all over their board after Bagley made his announcement date known. Just sayin.