It Has Been Much Too Long

[awf]

The number of titles in the 60's, 70's, and 80's is meaningless today. It's a different era. We are getting the #1 classes practically every year and Cal is getting a potful of money to win at the highest level.

I am not complaining, in general, about what Cal has done here, but everyone has their peeves...Cal isn't perfect. If we are going to "sell our soul" with this system, we need to get the highest rewards on a "regular" basis. In my opinion, we should win a title every 5-7 yrs. Cal has had a lot of bad luck with the seedings and the officials. I honestly think Cal can win a title every 5-7 yrs as long as he continues to bring in top talent.

Please explain to me how UK has "sold their soul"? A title is the cherry on top of the sundae. I will take a sundae every year with the "chance" of getting the cherry on top. Cal has this team in the hunt every year. As a fan I can only expect as much...........I can wish/dream for more.....being in the hunt every year is enough for me. Te "expect" any more is just going to lead to disappointment.

 

[Elliott Tim]

^^Thread winner

 

[Contracts & Wildcats]

Don't you think the subject can be discussed without wanting Cal replaced. I do. I don't think any UK fan wants him replaced. If a player isn't a first round draft choice, maybe Cal should take a look at talking to him about returning to improve his chances.
Briscoe is a good example this year. I do not believe he will be drafted, definitely not in the first round. He could stay another year, work on his outside shot, and ball handling skills, and even if he didn't make the NBA, he is closer to getting his degree. I've heard all the BS about how they can come back later and finish school, but only a small percentage do.

OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!

The reason I asked who that poster wanted to replace Cal with is because so many posters keep making posts wishing Cal would do this or that and wishing for him to change his coaching style/philosophy. Cal does things the way he does things and I don't really see him changing at this point in his career. So, for those that keep wishing he would do things differently, or change his philosophy, I just assume those critics have another coach in mind that fits more to the mold of how they want a coach to coach.

Re: the Briscoe comment- You don't think Cal discusses both options (leaving/returning) to the players? You don't think he's mentioned to Briscoe that there is a chance he doesn't get drafted? What it sounds like you want him to do is beg and plead or force the recruit to return. Have you considered that some players that leave early, like Briscoe in your post, just want to leave and move on to something else? None of us here knows what is said between Cal and the players at these private meetings, unless the player discusses it, and it's extremely lazy to continue to perpetuate the idea that Cal simply pushes the kids out. The "draft night" comments he made that everyone continues to harp on were made to assist in recruiting, and it's a shame that many here believe that Cal doesn't care about winning but just "draft night."

In the "one and Done" era Cal does about the best anyone can expect for putting UK in a position to win a title on a yearly basis and for that I am thankful and supportive.

 

[Elliott Tim]

A large part of the problem is our expectations. Every year Cal has been here, we have had the No. 1 recruiting class per Scout or Rivals. Last year Cal said it was his best recruiting class ever. When you hear talk like that, you have high expectations, and high expectations for Cat fans is a National Championship. If someone stays, then Cal has a tendency to play a Freshmen over him, trying to get the Freshmen to be able to be a one and done. That was obvious to a lot of us this year with Gabriel and Willis.

OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!

Willievic,
This is Tim the guy who called you when you were in Alaska. You returned my call and it got erased off the caller ID. If you still have my number, call me sometime.
Tim From Elliott County,

 

[Elliott Tim]

I think Coach Cal is definitely out recruiting Coach K right now. I think its just that it used to be Cal and nobody else. Also, you can't just go by numbers in recruiting. Karl Anthony-Towns was ranked 10th according to ESPN and I think his highest rating was 6th. The 2014 class was considered to be one of our weakest at the time, and now you have Towns (considered to be the future of the NBA), Booker (talked about being the best 2 guard in the league) Ulis (5'9" point guard that was a candidate for player of the year and putting up great numbers against NBA guards now), and Trey Lyles (not doing much now, but definitely has a career in the NBA). Duke recruits always seem to get propped up when they go to Duke, and their NBA careers never match their expectations coming out of high school (with the exception of Kyrie Irving).

Also, you have some years where you don't have sure fire NBA stars in high school. We had Wall and Cousins Cal's first year, but they have been the best two players drafted at their position since 2010. Anthony Davis won every award possible in 2012, and is the only basketball player to ever do what he did as a freshman. We had a down year in recruiting in 2013 and Noel was the only top recruit we landed. The next year we followed up by getting the #1 PG, SG, PF, and #2 C and #2 SG. We almost got the #1 SF too, and had 4 of the top 10 players in what was considered to be a really strong recruiting class. I would put Monk and Fox as our best back court tandem we've had since Cal has been at UK (slightly above Wall and Bledsoe). Skal was the #2 rated recruit but was our first top recruit that majorly underperformed. Next year's recruiting class is considered to be a down year in recruiting overall.

Duke hasn't had one class that I would trade with them since Cal has been at UK (would only really even consider last year's, but most people forget that Kennard wasn't half the player as a freshman compared to this year). UK's recruiting class as it is today is much better for next year then Duke's, and there's no guarantee of Duke getting any of their remaining top targets. People put too much stock in numbers and should pay more attention to the fact that our recruits always seem to out perform other team's recruits, always seem to buy into Cal system's and play unselfishly (except for 2013), and always seem to find what Cal likes to call "a will to win". We've had a ton of recruits who proved to be fearless when the game was on the line and have come up big to hit tough game winners or shots when it mattered most. I trust Cal's evaluation of recruits more than Paul Biancardi (same guy who had Wall ranked 6th in his high school class) Evan Daniels, or anyone else based off our recruits past success.

Other top coaches are now embracing Cal's model, and have realized that his system gives you the best chance for success if you can get them all to buy in and develop them. The only problem is, other coaches have found out that it isn't as easy to do as what Cal makes it look like (Izzo, Coach K this year, Self). The biggest flaw with Cal's system right now is the fact that we really do need some of our good recruits returning every year to have a good chance to win (Jones and Lamb in 2012/ the twins and Cauley in 2015). Although that's the biggest flaw with Cal's system, it's also the reason why he is able to have the top class year in and year out. Cal is honest with his players, and advises them based off what he feels is in their best interest. If he feels that is to leave, he tells them. If he thinks its best for them to return, he will tell them. He also lets them make their own decision unlike some coaches (Roy/Coach K), and that has hurt UK a couple seasons because they chose to leave (Teague/Dakari).

P.S. CoachX on here had a post recently talking about how Coach K is getting hammered on the recruiting trail right now because of recruits being unhappy with things he promised and what he delivered. Coach K's recruiting got propped up once he took control of Team USA, and now that he is done coaching that, I believe we're about to see a decline in Duke recruiting.

Here's how I think most of the sports world unfairly views and judges Cal.

 

[John Henry]

For the record I do not want Coach Cal replaced. In fact, he is the only coach I want this point in time. Having followed UK since the late 1940's he is second only to Rupp in my mind. My point in starting the thread was 2012 was five years ago and I am anxious for Number 9. It has been much too long in my mind. I repeat in my mind. If you disagree I have no argument with you. Just expressing an opinion on a message board.

If you are satisfied with being a Top 5 program and that is your goal each year, I respect that. But I want #9 and to get number 9 you have to go past a number 5 ranking. I think we will do that very soon.

And thank you Coach Cal for the excellent work you are doing as our head coach.

 

[LeonThe Camel]

At this point i don't care anymore. Everyone is coming out of this deal great except for UK fans. Cal has gotten filthy rich, players use us as a stepping stone each year to become rich, but the fans have gotten nothing but consistent heartbreak in the tournament and we don't get rich.

When Cal arrived I was 150% in favor of the way he did OAD. I no longer feel that way. I'm sick of watching other top schools return some of their best players each year while we lose ours and even some of our freaking role players. It's BS.

@morgousky is absolutely right. Our recruiting has dipped really since our title but even more since the Towns class. Towns was the last transcendent player we have had. Monk and Fox were unreal but they weren't Davis, Towns, Wall or Cousins level. If you'll notice, Towns' class was the last one Antiqua was here to recruit for. I'm praying we add him back and get back to getting the truly top players again. But, even if we start getting those top guys again it won't matter unless we start keeping some of our good freshmen.

The "transcendent" player does not come along every year. We always try to make someone so amazingly good, but it is not always the case.
Before the year Bam was going to dunk on everyone and control the paint. Fans need to let the players be players before anointing them.

 

[LeonThe Camel]

Here's how I think most of the sports world unfairly views and judges Cal.

And this how most view our players.
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You Were Gone - YouTube

 

[BBUK_anon]

You seem to be one of those everyone gets a ribbon people. Sit and look at the history of the program. There have been periods where the team has went many more years between FF's. I don't think five years is an eternity...... at best I might have 25 yrs left in me.......so five years isn't a long time.......certainly not an "eternity" as you state.

I do understand his post though. In 2014 I was as gut-wrenched as I can remember and didn't come back to this board regularly until mid-July. I am still not fully over that tourny. (I'm with you, my Dad died at 74, I'm 55 pushing 56. I've done the math already.) I learned from that season that to invest myself so fully in a game is not healthy. I like and love the Cats but geez you have to moderate your feelings. (This from a guy who's wife constantly reminds me the other driver cannot hear me, I am wasting my time and hurting her ears.) Be Good and Go CATS!!!

 

[BBUK_anon]

Here's how I think most of the sports world unfairly views and judges Cal.

Yeah but if that is the way they are saying it, I don't like the message but I like the messenger...(I am toughening up my fingers to where I can play again. I do some Merle.)

 

[Drewmagnum]

If you endured UK basketball during the 1980's, you should be grateful to Cal for this stretch. It will never ,ever be better than it is right now. IMHO....

 

[railroadkat_1]

I don't think some people are payIng attention to recruiting like we used to. Cal isn't the best recruiter in the game right now, coach K is. Not only is he landing higher rated freshman, He's taking them from us. Cal is playing in the 10-25 range moreso than he ever had while still trying to push OAD OAD OAD. We'll have to disagree on this one J, we cannot win championships ewitbout multiple freshman like AD and MKG, and we also had two players come back due to a lock out that wouldn't normally. 2012 is turned my into an outlier with this system.

No argument from me on the NCAA and committee. They can burn in hell.But Cal is gonna have to figure out how to put some teams together and go around them. Our roster management hasn't been that great.

Get over yourself. I have Been True Blue my whole life. I have seen games since 1966 to know how hard it is.. Even in that length of time I've only witnessed 4 National Championships! It's not easy to do. I remember when we tied Indiana and passed them with #5 and 6 that put us in second place that we still own. We don't count Helm's trophies like UNC.
UK is a Blueblood program and recently recognized as the Number 1 program of all time. All time in wins, still second in Championships, and Set Home attendance records for years. I could go on here, but that is not my point.
The game changes and so does recruiting. Cal is the best at it he is constantly ahead of the others. Right now we have the no.1 class and Cal's not done yet. He got in on 3 shooters just recently. I think he gets one soon. The recruiting dead period just ended so our coach is visiting players for next year and beyond.
I want another Championship before my next Journey along with several other thousands and thousands of other basketball fans. You have to have patience sounds like something you need to acquire.

 

[Elliott Tim]

mQUOTE="BBUK, post: 5831781, member: 3832"]Yeah but if that is the way they are saying it, I don't like the message but I like the messenger...(I am toughening up my fingers to where I can play again. I do some Merle.)[/QUOTE]
If you look at my Avatar you'll see it's Chet Atkins and Merle Travis. I'm a Travis picker and my good friend Charlie Berwinkle plays the Atkins style. We play every Thursday night at Roselyn's Music Store in Dover, Oh.

 

[BBUK_anon]

mQUOTE="BBUK, post: 5831781, member: 3832"]Yeah but if that is the way they are saying it, I don't like the message but I like the messenger...(I am toughening up my fingers to where I can play again. I do some Merle.)

If you look at my Avatar you'll see it's Chet Atkins and Merle Travis. I'm a Travis picker and my good friend Charlie Berwinkle plays the Atkins style. We play every Thursday night at Roselyn's Music Store in Dover, Oh.[/QUOTE]

Super stuff to know. Wish I could attend. An aside; my Dad and Chet Atkins knew each other down south eastern kentucky way when they were kids. They hung around the Y (For any here that knows that area.)(Way before Chet became Chet)(My first cousin is a serious guitar player himself and played for a well known group but let the drugs take hold of him.) He is a preacher now and a fine man but he sure paid the price.

I had a replica crestwood guitar that Chet played a lot. (I gave it to my Youth leader's (when I was growing up) grandson about 4 or so years ago before I went to Korea. (It seemed like the thing to do. I don't regret it.)(It was worth some dough but I could never track down how much as Crestwood went under.) Be Good

 

[awf]

Yeah but if that is the way they are saying it, I don't like the message but I like the messenger...(I am toughening up my fingers to where I can play again. I do some Merle.)

At 63 I am the patriarch of my family. The oldest the males in our family has gotten was 68. Hell I don't ever wish for the weekend to roll around. Get those fingers tough by playing......I used to play some of Merle's music back before I picked up this banjo...........

 

[morgousky]

Get over yourself. I have Been True Blue my whole life. I have seen games since 1966 to know how hard it is.. Even in that length of time I've only witnessed 4 National Championships! It's not easy to do. I remember when we tied Indiana and passed them with #5 and 6 that put us in second place that we still own. We don't count Helm's trophies like UNC.
UK is a Blueblood program and recently recognized as the Number 1 program of all time. All time in wins, still second in Championships, and Set Home attendance records for years. I could go on here, but that is not my point.
The game changes and so does recruiting. Cal is the best at it he is constantly ahead of the others. Right now we have the no.1 class and Cal's not done yet. He got in on 3 shooters just recently. I think he gets one soon. The recruiting dead period just ended so our coach is visiting players for next year and beyond.
I want another Championship before my next Journey along with several other thousands and thousands of other basketball fans. You have to have patience sounds like something you need to acquire.

So you're old and have seen the way other coaches have done it. Great. Now to the modern day present situation. Cals had over 40 OAD's and his title came when he had two top 5 players from a great class. We need those recruits. 10-30 isn't going to cut it or he needs to adapt and keep them around.

 

[railroadkat_1]

So you're old and have seen the way other coaches have done it. Great. Now to the modern day present situation. Cals had over 40 OAD's and his title came when he had two top 5 players from a great class. We need those recruits. 10-30 isn't going to cut it or he needs to adapt and keep them around.

Call me what you think it makes me laugh. I live in the modern day not the childish world you live in. Riddle me this morgo I bet your John Higgins. You don't have a whistle but you seem to love to blow your own horn Except no one hears it!

 

[kybassfan]

The number of titles in the 60's, 70's, and 80's is meaningless today. It's a different era. We are getting the #1 classes practically every year and Cal is getting a potful of money to win at the highest level.

I am not complaining, in general, about what Cal has done here, but everyone has their peeves...Cal isn't perfect. If we are going to "sell our soul" with this system, we need to get the highest rewards on a "regular" basis. In my opinion, we should win a title every 5-7 yrs. Cal has had a lot of bad luck with the seedings and the officials. I honestly think Cal can win a title every 5-7 yrs as long as he continues to bring in top talent.

Well, that's not true. Its only meaningless if it doesn't fit your agenda, so you throw it out. The fact is, our program does not have a championship per five years track record. Never has and the "dry spells" have been MUCH longer than now.

Cal is getting a pot full of money to coach KY. He earns it. He gets bonuses if he wins championships and other stuff, I'm sure.

Just keeping it real. Re-scoping just to say we "should have won" a championship is rather pointless. Everybody wants to win. Big boy pants. You lose, you reload for next year.

 

[armchairpg]

But Cal can still be known as a very good coach and 3rd best in his era. He'll never be Roy or K now but 3rd isn't bad.

He's gotta get titles here or he failed as coach here. ALL THAT TALENT

One possession goes down differently and we go to the F4 and Roy is speaking in platitudes at the press conference.

One possession does not validate a school or a career.

 

[willievic]

The reason I asked who that poster wanted to replace Cal with is because so many posters keep making posts wishing Cal would do this or that and wishing for him to change his coaching style/philosophy. Cal does things the way he does things and I don't really see him changing at this point in his career. So, for those that keep wishing he would do things differently, or change his philosophy, I just assume those critics have another coach in mind that fits more to the mold of how they want a coach to coach.

Re: the Briscoe comment- You don't think Cal discusses both options (leaving/returning) to the players? You don't think he's mentioned to Briscoe that there is a chance he doesn't get drafted? What it sounds like you want him to do is beg and plead or force the recruit to return. Have you considered that some players that leave early, like Briscoe in your post, just want to leave and move on to something else? None of us here knows what is said between Cal and the players at these private meetings, unless the player discusses it, and it's extremely lazy to continue to perpetuate the idea that Cal simply pushes the kids out. The "draft night" comments he made that everyone continues to harp on were made to assist in recruiting, and it's a shame that many here believe that Cal doesn't care about winning but just "draft night."

In the "one and Done" era Cal does about the best anyone can expect for putting UK in a position to win a title on a yearly basis and for that I am thankful and supportive.

Contracts, I have NEVER begged anyone, and I sure wouldn't ask anyone else to beg. You may know more about that subject then I do. Take the time to read Cal's latest book, and you will see where I'm coming from, with what I wrote. I'm not one pushing for Cal to leave. I don't know of any coach I would prefer over Cal. I just don't think that the "One and Done" should be the most important thing in his coaching. Just read his book, Success Is The Only Option. Success means different things to different people. I feel after reading his book, getting a player to the NBA is MORE important then winning a National Championship. Other readers may feel different. That's what's nice about America. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and should not be ridiculed because someone doesn't agree with them.

OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!

 

[awf]

The number of titles in the 60's, 70's, and 80's is meaningless today. It's a different era. We are getting the #1 classes practically every year and Cal is getting a potful of money to win at the highest level.

I am not complaining, in general, about what Cal has done here, but everyone has their peeves...Cal isn't perfect. If we are going to "sell our soul" with this system, we need to get the highest rewards on a "regular" basis. In my opinion, we should win a title every 5-7 yrs. Cal has had a lot of bad luck with the seedings and the officials. I honestly think Cal can win a title every 5-7 yrs as long as he continues to bring in top talent.

You saying that titles in the 60's 70's (there were no titles inthe 80's) are meaningless today is just completely bogus. Only in your mind. We went 20 years without a title. By your statement you would have found a new team.

 

[UKWildcats#8]

One possession goes down differently and we go to the F4 and Roy is speaking in platitudes at the press conference.

One possession does not validate a school or a career.

Roy has 3 titles and 9 Final Fours. Those are the facts until they are taken away. Cal has 1 Title and 6 Final Fours (He went to 6, idc what the NCAA says).

Cal is definitely one of the top coaches of this era, but he needs a 2nd title to really move up the ladder IMO. Even then he is still behind K and Roy overall, and Pitino (for his entire career) can make a claim for #3 himself based on titles and Final Four totals.

 

[CHAMPCAT11]

For the record I do not want Coach Cal replaced. In fact, he is the only coach I want this point in time. Having followed UK since the late 1940's he is second only to Rupp in my mind. My point in starting the thread was 2012 was five years ago and I am anxious for Number 9. It has been much too long in my mind. I repeat in my mind. If you disagree I have no argument with you. Just expressing an opinion on a message board.

If you are satisfied with being a Top 5 program and that is your goal each year, I respect that. But I want #9 and to get number 9 you have to go past a number 5 ranking. I think we will do that very soon.

And thank you Coach Cal for the excellent work you are doing as our head coach.

This is one of the best posts I've read in a long time. Especially since it concerns the topic that has consumed so many posters for quite some time now. I've tried to post pretty much the same thing but I keep getting hammered so I guess I'm not expressing myself well enough. The comment I like the best is where you say you respect posters that are satisfied with being a top 5 program every year but you want #9. Here's my take- I respect posters who are satisfied being a top 5 program every year but I definitely want #9 and I think we should either have it by now or if not now definitely in the near future. That's how I feel and I respect those who are content just having a top 5 team (or close to it) year in and year out.

 

[Chuckinden]

You saying that titles in the 60's 70's (there were no titles inthe 80's) are meaningless today is just completely bogus. Only in your mind. We went 20 years without a title. By your statement you would have found a new team.

I apologize for not being clear. I should have said the comparison of the length of time between titles in that era is meaningless.

 

[Lovebaskelball]

UNC was a top 5 program this year and they won the title. So people saying they want a top 5 program year in and year out are saying they want to be in the hunt and with some luck more titles.

Life and sports evolve and adapt. If they do not, they die.

 

[Contracts & Wildcats]

Contracts, I have NEVER begged anyone, and I sure wouldn't ask anyone else to beg. You may know more about that subject then I do. Take the time to read Cal's latest book, and you will see where I'm coming from, with what I wrote. I'm not one pushing for Cal to leave. I don't know of any coach I would prefer over Cal. I just don't think that the "One and Done" should be the most important thing in his coaching. Just read his book, Success Is The Only Option. Success means different things to different people. I feel after reading his book, getting a player to the NBA is MORE important then winning a National Championship. Other readers may feel different. That's what's nice about America. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and should not be ridiculed because someone doesn't agree with them.

OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!

I never said you wanted Cal gone and I'm not sure what you were implying when you stated that I knew more about begging than you.

You completely avoided the questions I asked and began posting about your interpretation of his book.

I will ask in a different way, do you honestly believe Cal discussed with Briscoe about coming back for a third year and improving his game or do you believe he tried to convince him to leave? You said yourself that "Cal should take a look at talking to him about returning to improve his chances." That comment is insinuating that Cal doesn't normally do that.

As far as what you interpret from the book to be Cal's goals, that he cares more about sending a player to the NBA then winning, we will just have to agree to disagree.