North Carolina Scandal Etc
- Thread starter Catswin9
- Start date
Villanova hopefully was just the beginning.opcorn:
Thank God for Villanova and Jenkins shot. It appears it will be the only form of justice handed down.
Just heard Bilas on the Jason Anderson show, and he could not have been more in the tank for UNCheat. 100% party line. Anderson framed his first question as how UNCheat lawyered up, and Bilas completely disagreed, saying he believed Wainstein's statement that UNCheat was completely cooperative and handled the investigation with integrity and candor. Said that nothing in the NCAA rules covers what UNCheat did and that the NCAA realized that they couldn't win a challenge to their first NOA, which is why they did away with them. Bilas is dead to me now.
What in the NCAA rules gave them authority to nuke Penn St.?
The NCAA just makes the **** up as they go.
The NCAA just makes the **** up as they go.
F JAY BILAS ... I USE TO LIKE HIM..BUT HE CAN GO TO H.
HE IS UNDER THE POWER OF ESPN JOHN SKIPPER.... HEY MAYBE Kentucky will get lucky and the next Espn ceo will be a Kentucky grad.
HE IS UNDER THE POWER OF ESPN JOHN SKIPPER.... HEY MAYBE Kentucky will get lucky and the next Espn ceo will be a Kentucky grad.
Neither is playing naked tag with little boys in the shower, but the NCAA eviscerated Penn State over that.
At the end of the day, NCAA doesn't have to worry about precedent or what they technically have jurisdiction over - they make up and selectively enforce concepts like 'strict liability' in order to hammer Memphis for playing a kid they cleared twice or Bruce Pearl for lying about feeding a kid a burger all while letting 3 decades of fraudulent classes slide.
They could do whatever they wanted, and there's nothing that UNC could do to stop them. Just like there's nothing that other member institutions can do to stop them from giving UNC a gentle wipe of the bottom. Well, they could leave and form a new association with its own problems, but I don't think we've quite gotten to that point yet.. give it a decade or two.
I wonder though - you don't think UNC would have appealed major sanctions, or even brought a lawsuit against the NCAA?
Of course it appears the NCAA was too cowardly to even bring the charges.
Their banners are no more legitimate than their bread wrappers. What have they got, one that they won honestly?
Spin it any way they want, the intent was to cheat.
I'm old, I'm tired and I've seen a lot. This is depressing. I've lived through the dismal years of UK probations and what riles my goat is that NC, even with the obvious evidence, may walk away Scott free. My faith in justice may take a huge step backwards if NC men's basketball doesn't at least get some type of probation. If not then my interest in college sports with the obvious exception of UK. will die on the vine.
That's one dagger that they didn't dodge. And one that will be replayed forever.
Bilas has sounded like a PR firm lawyer paid by UNC for a long time.
I don't think they lied about UNC getting hit hard. I think they were trying so hard to prove how connected they were to insiders that they were duped. They BELIEVED UNC was going to get hammered.
I never trusted Manalishi at all. People who claim to have secret knowledge are usually full of it. I think A9 just wasn't smart enough to realize he was being played. Hopefully, he learns from this.
Just saw this on Yahoo front page. UNC getting skewered:
http://www.dukebasketballreport.com...years-in-the-ncaa-and-almost-get-away-with-it
http://www.dukebasketballreport.com...years-in-the-ncaa-and-almost-get-away-with-it
Good read. I shared it.to my facebook, as should all. It needs to reach as many folks as it can. So more people can be informed that normally wouldn't don't read this ..
I can't believe it took so many of you to realize this about Bilas. He's a company *** kisser
Agree concerning Aligned for 9. (Have no opinion concerning Manilishi).
In hindsight it's now clear that UNC and the NCAA have been in negotiations this whole time they've been 'waiting for the amended NOA'.
The leaks coming from the UNC side were so different than what was coming from elsewhere, that something definitely was off.
For example when Roy Williams stated publicly and was telling recruits that UNC basketball would not be charged, I concluded that either 1.) he was a flat out liar or 2.) that UNC and the NCAA were colluding and had already agreed to reduce the charges. It has to be one or the other. Both are very bad, but I wasn't sure which one was correct.
Then you have Mark Emmert making some extremely cryptic and strange claims during the Final 4 which seemed to indicate that the NCAA was not guiding their own ship.
Now we know that the fix was in, and frankly it probably has been in ever since the very beginning. Remember the very 1st thing the NCAA did when this 'investigation' started was to send Marcus Wilson, who was a NCAA staffer but also former UNC football player and booster, to Chapel Hill ahead of anybody else. What his purpose was and what he did, no one has ever explained, except to say that he wasn't a member of the investigative team.
So what's the next stage? At this point the NCAA (rightly) itself comes under fire, including potentially by lawsuits and congressional hearings into it's very purpose along with its claim to deserve not-for-profit tax classification. This move by the NCAA not to pursue strong sanctions for UNC's systematic crimes will not help them in defending themselves, and will pose a very real hurdle which could mean their very existence.
As I mentioned numerous times, this scandal will NOT go away. The NCAA might have washed their hands of it in terms of men's basketball and football, but information will continue to leak and continue to eat away at whatever integrity the University still thinks it has. There's just too much corruption oozing out of there, to go along with an administration that is clearly not interested in cleaning house, that scandals will continue for many years.
Great post.
The NCAA is AC. unc is OJ.
You can't turn in your best friend, you can only try to get that friend out of a jam.
Great post.
Foxes guarding the chicken house the whole time. Makes me nauseous.
Excellent piece
I love the part where UNC was converting documents to non-searchable PDFs before releasing them to the press :joy:
I can't agree. He presented information many times that led one to believe he had direct sources. He went much further than just being snookered. I have no use for that. I'd ban him if I could.
Great article! For the tech-savvy----of which I am not---please spread this. Put this article on blast to every member of the committee on infractions. Do not let them ignore this. If Bilas is correct, maybe they will ignore the "rules" and punish unc like penn state! Let's make it happen! Something has got to!
The article is interesting but I think misses a lot, and misstates a lot. For example the article claims:
I don't think this has anything to do with a lack of evidence. There was PLENTY of evidence in the Wainstein addendums alone to nail UNC, much less the Wainstein report itself, and not to mention the numerous areas that Wainstein didn't even touch (Wheels for Heels, Tami Hansbrough, ADHD misdiagnoses & Adderall abuse etc.)
The thing that's missed is the NCAA does whatever it chooses to do. They've nailed programs with a lot less evidence, while in this and other cases they've let programs skate when they have the smoking gun in their hand (for example letting Duke skate despite Corey Maggette admitting in federal court that he broke amateur rules).
The failure of the NCAA that is clear now, but has been true throughout the course of this 'investigation' is that the NCAA for the entirety of this scandal has allowed UNC to drive the train and to try to orchestrate what was looked into. Despite multiple failed 'self-investigations' each of which were overly limited in scope and were never truly independent (and yes that includes Wainstein), the NCAA has consistently continued to allow UNC to guide the narrative rather than to take the investigation into its own hands.
That was a huge failure on the part of the NCAA, but again that's what they CHOSE to do.
As for the endgame, Wainstein did what he was paid to do, i.e. try to frame this entire scandal solely on the backs of two individuals, Julius Nyang'oro and Debbie Crowder and to restrict it to AFAM studies. Of course that was a joke to anyone with any common sense and especially given that there was plenty of information in the addendum and other FOI requests which show quite clearly that the scandal was far wider and far deeper than that. (and BTW, I'll give Brad Bethel credit here, even he understands how ludicrous this was to place the blame on these two individuals along with some low level academic staffers when the higher ups were most certainly involved as well. Of course his documentary concentrates on the higher ups on the academic side without acknowledging the involvement of the higher ups on the athletic side.)
So it seems that a compromise was in order. After years of swearing up and down that this was relegated to two rogue employees and a single department, UNC was more than willing to expand the scope and pile Jan Boxill (someone completely outside AFAM studies) onto the sacrificial pit if it meant the NCAA would spare their precious.
That the NCAA went along with a scheme like this, rather than to take control of the investigation (as they should have done from the start) is a travesty.
PS, the article also states the following:
The author gives Friday credit for forcing Frank McGuire out, although I don't know how much of this is actually deserved. McGuire received a lucrative offer to coach the Philadelphia Warriors and their young superstar Wilt Chamberlain which prompted him to leave. That would be like Cal taking the job to coach Lebron and the Cavs. Not sure whether the credit for McGuire leaving can be given to the administration.
The other thing is that if Friday was indeed concerned about the corruption going on at the time (which not only involved potential point shaving and illegal payments from gamblers to UNC players, but also involved longstanding recruiting violations which culminated in NCAA sanctions), one would think that he might go and hire someone from the outside? Yet Friday chose to hire Dean Smith, who while he may have been a great guy, had been an assistant coach under McGuire during the very time these violations occurred.
Given that, it makes one wonder if the administration at the time was truly intent on turning over a new leaf, or whether they were more interested in keeping the bodies buried and the gravy train rolling, just like they've been so intent on keeping everything in the family ever since. (and to be sure, Dean Smith did keep the 'underground railroad' between New York and Chapel Hill which McGuire created, alive and well.)
If anything, one could argue that UNC has been corrupt going all the way back to McGuire. McGuire, BTW, had been head coach of St. John's during the early 50's when the 1951 gambling scandal took place. (the same one that ensnared UK).
At the time it was an open question as to why the NYC district attorney (Frank Hogan) failed to pursue allegations against any Catholic schools (including St. Johns among others). Speculation was that Francis Cardinal Spellman exerted pressure on Hogan (who himself was a Roman Catholic) to drop cases against players from Catholic schools.
Whether any of that is true, I don't know. But it is intriguing to think about.
JP-- Wonderful insight. Thank you.
I agree with you---in that the ultimate failure---is the NCAA allowing UNC to dictate and control the narrative, plus perform the multiple (half-***)investigations.....meanwhile delaying, firing, burying the bodies (so to speak), work legal deals to prevent cooperation......etc. When one thinks about it, it is truly insane! Like you, I have wondered how the Feds have managed to stay outta this thing with all of the obvious Pell grant fraud and false certifications of eligibility. Have u listened to the matt jones podcast with Jay Bilas? I would love your insight on Bilas' analysis. Some of the things he says I agree with and understand. However, the notion/premise that fraudulent academics have/should have nothing to do with eligibility in collegiate sports (from which the entire foundation of Bilas' argument seems to rest) is just simply not accurate, IMO. Academic eligibility is a condition precedent to athletic eligibility. I don't believe---like Bilas---that those two things are separate and distinct in the UNC context.
The NCAA had far less evidence to declare Rose's test score invalid than it has with UNC. Heck, McCants, McAdoo and Peppers transcript tell us of the fraud...whereas Rose (or anyone else) has ever said a word. Yet, it appears the NCAA will somehow ignore 20 years (at least) of cheating? I am dumbfounded by this.
I agree with you---in that the ultimate failure---is the NCAA allowing UNC to dictate and control the narrative, plus perform the multiple (half-***)investigations.....meanwhile delaying, firing, burying the bodies (so to speak), work legal deals to prevent cooperation......etc. When one thinks about it, it is truly insane! Like you, I have wondered how the Feds have managed to stay outta this thing with all of the obvious Pell grant fraud and false certifications of eligibility. Have u listened to the matt jones podcast with Jay Bilas? I would love your insight on Bilas' analysis. Some of the things he says I agree with and understand. However, the notion/premise that fraudulent academics have/should have nothing to do with eligibility in collegiate sports (from which the entire foundation of Bilas' argument seems to rest) is just simply not accurate, IMO. Academic eligibility is a condition precedent to athletic eligibility. I don't believe---like Bilas---that those two things are separate and distinct in the UNC context.
The NCAA had far less evidence to declare Rose's test score invalid than it has with UNC. Heck, McCants, McAdoo and Peppers transcript tell us of the fraud...whereas Rose (or anyone else) has ever said a word. Yet, it appears the NCAA will somehow ignore 20 years (at least) of cheating? I am dumbfounded by this.
Syracuse and Minnesota can't be happy with how UNC's case has been treated. http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/2016/4/27/11516282/comparing-uncs-scandal-to-minnesotas-and-syracuses-ncaa-cases?utm_campaign=dukebasketballreport&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter…
Agree,the question now is if any member schools will act on the displeasure that each and every one probably feels at this point. At the very least games against UNC should be canceled for a period of time,schools should refuse to schedule UNC and they should get a cold reception and they should get a very cold reception at away games.
The above is not nearly enough to send a message to the NCAA and UNC but it is the least that can be done.There are more than a half dozen schools that should sue the NCAA and hearings should be held in Congress(public monies were surely involved in this multi-generational case of fraud.
If everyone just sits by and watches this happen then they allow the foundation of college sports to be shaken to the core. If I were in a position to do so at a division 1 university (particularly UK) I would never play them home or away and leave my options open as to if I would play them in the NCAAT.
I know a lot of our posters thought UNC would skate and they apparently did. We also have a lot of posters who think that SOMETHING will happen now that they did skate. Personally, I think it will be business as usual. Emmert is head of the NCAA mafia and the universities just want status quo.
Before real change can happen, it will take an entire Power 5 conference to act. I don't see that happening. The NCAA is going to institute reforms and make sure that any other school will be punished. UNC is the OJ of college sports, except in this case, the prosecutor smiled and said, "Don't do that again."
Before real change can happen, it will take an entire Power 5 conference to act. I don't see that happening. The NCAA is going to institute reforms and make sure that any other school will be punished. UNC is the OJ of college sports, except in this case, the prosecutor smiled and said, "Don't do that again."
Jon agree 100% that it's much larger and goes up higher than Nyangoro and Crawford. If the NCAA could have gotten them to cooperate though do you think we'd have seen a much different NOA?
Sylvia Hatchell is going to be skewered and take the fall even though the whole mess never even started with her program and other sports programs were benefitting from the situation.
Unreal.
Sylvia Hatchell is going to be skewered and take the fall even though the whole mess never even started with her program and other sports programs were benefitting from the situation.
Unreal.
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