1996 team

Cowtown Cat

Heisman
Aug 23, 2015
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1996 Cats were the most talented college team period. They were not just the most talented UK team. They won the title and only lost two games, both to other Final Four teams, in an era when college basketball was MUCH better than today. It was still very rare for players to bolt to the NBA out of high school or after one year. Teams were just a lot better then than they are now. That is a FACT, whether you like it or not. One of the top players in basketball history was a senior that year and we beat him in the tournament. FYI, I'm talking about Tim Duncan.

UK beat Wake Forest soundly. Not to mention players like Allen Iverson and Ray Allen were still playing on very good teams that year. There were many more great players that were still playing in college that year. Stephon Marbury was at Georgia Tech. Texas Tech was either undefeated or had only one loss entering the tourney that year. College ball was way up in 1996 as far as talent and UK dominated.
 

Cowtown Cat

Heisman
Aug 23, 2015
24,204
55,044
100
What's mind boggling to me is that UK had Nazr Mohammed, Scott Padgett and Cameron Mills all on the JV team that year. Two future NBA guys were on the JV team. That's ridiculous.
 

kybassfan

Heisman
Jul 1, 2005
20,032
16,368
113
1996 Cats were the most talented college team period. They were not just the most talented UK team. They won the title and only lost two games, both to other Final Four teams, in an era when college basketball was MUCH better than today. It was still very rare for players to bolt to the NBA out of high school or after one year. Teams were just a lot better then than they are now. That is a FACT, whether you like it or not. One of the top players in basketball history was a senior that year and we beat him in the tournament. FYI, I'm talking about Tim Duncan.

38 games. 1 loss. Arguably one of the best teams to ever take a floor.

Referring collectively to whether teams were better when separated by 20 years is NOT a fact. A fact is 2 + 2 = 4. Facts may not be refuted or questioned. Clearly, you are expressing no more than an opinion and your "fact" is surely questionable and refutable.

Sorry, but facts is facts.
 

BourbonBalz

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Mar 5, 2005
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You cannot EVER be considered the best team if you don't even make it to the title game. Last year's team was great, but it had some weaknesses. Not a great perimeter shooting team. Lack of a great SF that could shoot and take the defender off the dribble. Not many players that could create their own shot. We dominated due to size. Period. There's nothing wrong with that, but the 96 team was just as deep and much more skilled overall IMO.
 
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TeoJ

Heisman
Oct 19, 2001
24,644
20,943
65
You cannot EVER be considered the best team if you don't even make it to the title game. Last year's team was great, but it had some weaknesses. Not a great perimeter shooting team. Lack of a great SF that could shoot and take the defender off the dribble. Not many players that could create their own shot. We dominated due to size. Period. There's nothing wrong with that, but the 96 team was just as deep and much more skilled overall IMO.




Then it would have to be the 72 and 73 UCLA teams two years in a row undefeated or IU they went undefeated in 76.I I guess the 70's were the best teams.
 

bthaunert

Heisman
Apr 4, 2007
29,518
21,619
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38 games. 1 loss. Arguably one of the best teams to ever take a floor.

Referring collectively to whether teams were better when separated by 20 years is NOT a fact. A fact is 2 + 2 = 4. Facts may not be refuted or questioned. Clearly, you are expressing no more than an opinion and your "fact" is surely questionable and refutable.

Sorry, but facts is facts.
IMO, last years team had one of the best seasons ever, but not one of the best teams ever. The college game has changed so much over the years that college ball has been watered down drastically.
 

kybassfan

Heisman
Jul 1, 2005
20,032
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You cannot EVER be considered the best team if you don't even make it to the title game. Last year's team was great, but it had some weaknesses. Not a great perimeter shooting team. Lack of a great SF that could shoot and take the defender off the dribble. Not many players that could create their own shot. We dominated due to size. Period. There's nothing wrong with that, but the 96 team was just as deep and much more skilled overall IMO.

Don't agree, but I can respect an opinion.
 

kybassfan

Heisman
Jul 1, 2005
20,032
16,368
113
IMO, last years team had one of the best seasons ever, but not one of the best teams ever. The college game has changed so much over the years that college ball has been watered down drastically.

As I stated in post before, I can respect an opinion. Don't agree, but that's cool.

It's funny how folks see today's game as watered down and some see it as superior. Where I run aground is when folks attempt to suggest one position or the other as 'factual'.
 
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kyjeff1

Heisman
Sep 8, 2012
51,281
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1996 Cats were the most talented college team period. They were not just the most talented UK team. They won the title and only lost two games, both to other Final Four teams, in an era when college basketball was MUCH better than today. It was still very rare for players to bolt to the NBA out of high school or after one year. Teams were just a lot better then than they are now. That is a FACT, whether you like it or not. One of the top players in basketball history was a senior that year and we beat him in the tournament. FYI, I'm talking about Tim Duncan.
Well, here's one problem with one of your facts. Tim Duncan wasn't a senior in 96. He was a senior in 97.
I don't agree with your use of the word "fact" in your posts in this thread simply because the things you are stating as facts are opinions, not facts.
I think most people will agree that cbb was stronger in the 90's due to players sticking around but it's definitely not a fact. The 2012, 2010 and 2015 teams were pretty darn good too.
 

BourbonBalz

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Mar 5, 2005
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Why is it a fact? Because it's your opinion? I happen to agree but I'm just wondering how you believe it's a fact?
Because I watched every single game both teams played and because the college game was MUCH better in 96. That's not opinion. Every single person that actually has anything to do with the college game knows and normally states it. Why? Simple. The best players did not leave after one season. Our 96 team had numerous extremely talented seniors. Few teams today do. Frankly it's just common sense. I agree with another poster that said we had a great season last year, but we're not a team for the ages. It had a few glaring weaknesses that it could generally cover up with size and depth. It had one player that can be dominant and that's KAT.
 

kyjeff1

Heisman
Sep 8, 2012
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Because I watched every single game both teams played and because the college game was MUCH better in 96. That's not opinion. Every single person that actually has anything to do with the college game knows and normally states it. Why? Simple. The best players did not leave after one season. Our 96 team had numerous extremely talented seniors. Few teams today do. Frankly it's just common sense. I agree with another poster that said we had a great season last year, but we're not a team for the ages. It had a few glaring weaknesses that it could generally cover up with size and depth. It had one player that can be dominant and that's KAT.
You apparently don't know the definition of fact. What you are stating as fact is merely your opinion. You have no statistics to back anything you're saying.
Here's the other thing. There are only a handful of teams that have players that jump early. Most programs in the country still have players that stay through their senior year. Buddy Heild says hi.
Also, kids nowadays play AAU ball prior to college, these kids are better prepared before they get to college and a lot of these college programs have advanced training programs that weren't available back in the 90's so what you believe as fact may actually not be true.
 

BourbonBalz

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You apparently don't know the definition of fact. What you are stating as fact is merely your opinion. You have no statistics to back anything you're saying.
Here's the other thing. There are only a handful of teams that have players that jump early. Most programs in the country still have players that stay through their senior year. Buddy Heild says hi.
Also, kids nowadays play AAU ball prior to college, these kids are better prepared before they get to college and a lot of these college programs have advanced training programs that weren't available back in the 90's so what you believe as fact may actually not be true.
Whatever. Have it your way. My guess is you're not even old enough to remember the 96 team and think everything today is better. I'll leave it at this. Anyone that pays attention knows the college game isn't what it was a couple of decades ago. Whether you believe it means nothing to me.
 

BourbonBalz

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Then it would have to be the 72 and 73 UCLA teams two years in a row undefeated or IU they went undefeated in 76.I I guess the 70's were the best teams.
Those teams were great teams as was our 78 team.
 

kybassfan

Heisman
Jul 1, 2005
20,032
16,368
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Whatever. Have it your way. My guess is you're not even old enough to remember the 96 team and think everything today is better. I'll leave it at this. Anyone that pays attention knows the college game isn't what it was a couple of decades ago. Whether you believe it means nothing to me.

I was in college in '78, grad school actually. I watch a bunch of basketball. I'm telling you that there's not that much difference. Your facts aren't facts and aren't testable. It's all just opinion.
 
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Whatever. Have it your way. My guess is you're not even old enough to remember the 96 team and think everything today is better. I'll leave it at this. Anyone that pays attention knows the college game isn't what it was a couple of decades ago. Whether you believe it means nothing to me.


What's you're failing to see is that most of the people you are arguing with actually agree with your OPINION that the 96 squad, and college basketball as a whole in the '90's was better than nowadays. . What they are disagreeing with you is that you are still failing to see that it is not a fact... it's an opinion , and an opinion that is probably held by most college basketball fans

... it is NOT a fact that 1996 kentucky basketball team was better than the team led by Ryan harrow.. however, it wounder be a silly *** opinion to have.
 

kyjeff1

Heisman
Sep 8, 2012
51,281
72,052
113
Whatever. Have it your way. My guess is you're not even old enough to remember the 96 team and think everything today is better. I'll leave it at this. Anyone that pays attention knows the college game isn't what it was a couple of decades ago. Whether you believe it means nothing to me.
I'm 42.
Doesn't change the fact that you aren't smart enough to know the difference between fact and opinion.
The thing you don't get (besides the definition of fact) is I agree with what you are saying, it's just not a fact.
 

JohnnyGentle

Senior
Nov 6, 2007
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1996 Cats were the most talented college team period. They were not just the most talented UK team. They won the title and only lost two games, both to other Final Four teams, in an era when college basketball was MUCH better than today. It was still very rare for players to bolt to the NBA out of high school or after one year. Teams were just a lot better then than they are now. That is a FACT, whether you like it or not. One of the top players in basketball history was a senior that year and we beat him in the tournament. FYI, I'm talking about Tim Duncan.

2015 team had duncan
 

bthaunert

Heisman
Apr 4, 2007
29,518
21,619
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As I stated in post before, I can respect an opinion. Don't agree, but that's cool.

It's funny how folks see today's game as watered down and some see it as superior. Where I run aground is when folks attempt to suggest one position or the other as 'factual'.
I just don't know how it can be seen as superior to 25 years ago when guys like Shaq stayed till his junior year and guys like Alonzo Mourning and Grant Hill stayed until their senior years. The talent level coming out of high school is the same, but all of the great talent leaving after one or two years is what waters it down. Anthony Davis would have stayed at least 2, possibly 3 years in the early 90's. That's what the big difference is.
 

kyjeff1

Heisman
Sep 8, 2012
51,281
72,052
113
I just don't know how it can be seen as superior to 25 years ago when guys like Shaq stayed till his junior year and guys like Alonzo Mourning and Grant Hill stayed until their senior years. The talent level coming out of high school is the same, but all of the great talent leaving after one or two years is what waters it down. Anthony Davis would have stayed at least 2, possibly 3 years in the early 90's. That's what the big difference is.
Did they have AAU back then? I think AAU makes a big difference with today's incoming freshmen. But you're right, players stayed longer back then, I just don't think they were as good when they arrived as freshmen as they are now.
 

The_Godfather_rivals

All-Conference
May 22, 2002
25,432
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Can anyone name a weakness of the 1996 Cats?
Honestly, the only perceived "weakness" that was given to that team is that we didn't have a traditional center or more that we struggled against good big men.

That was mostly fueled by how Marcus Camby absolutely destroyed UK in that early season game. Even in the Final Four, Camby and Wallace were able to still find success against us, but UK also had enough height to limit the damage.

However, the only way UK was going to lose due to that weakness is if Tim Duncan had played with a much better supporting cast.
 

kybassfan

Heisman
Jul 1, 2005
20,032
16,368
113
I just don't know how it can be seen as superior to 25 years ago when guys like Shaq stayed till his junior year and guys like Alonzo Mourning and Grant Hill stayed until their senior years. The talent level coming out of high school is the same, but all of the great talent leaving after one or two years is what waters it down. Anthony Davis would have stayed at least 2, possibly 3 years in the early 90's. That's what the big difference is.

Yet, over the years, we've seen a number of threads argue vehemently that players really don't improve beyond their freshman year . . .

I actually agree that upper classmen do made a huge difference in team play. One has merely to watch last years Wisconsin game to understand that. Again, my point is that none of this can be regarded as factual. Its nothing more than opinion.
 

BourbonBalz

All-American
Mar 5, 2005
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Yet, over the years, we've seen a number of threads argue vehemently that players really don't improve beyond their freshman year . . .

I actually agree that upper classmen do made a huge difference in team play. One has merely to watch last years Wisconsin game to understand that. Again, my point is that none of this can be regarded as factual. Its nothing more than opinion.
No doubt it's opinion. But, it's opinion backed by facts. The FACT is the best players in college basketball generally stayed in school 3-4 years back then. That's a FACT. They do not now. That's a FACT. It does not take a genius to see that these FACTS made the teams stronger then. I know what my eyes show me and I can think logically. Is there some statistic that I can rely on? No. But that does not change the argument. It's widely stated by the so-called experts that the game is more watered down today because of what I just stated. Players stayed in school longer and developed into better players over 3-4 years, generally speaking. As far as AAU ball goes, I'm not sure whether that helps or hurts players. Yes, they compete against other talented players, but they also develop bad habits. I don't think anyone can argue otherwise. Players in the past generally had better fundamentals because fundamentals were stressed over high flying dunks.
 

kybassfan

Heisman
Jul 1, 2005
20,032
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No doubt it's opinion. But, it's opinion backed by facts. The FACT is the best players in college basketball generally stayed in school 3-4 years back then. That's a FACT. They do not now. That's a FACT. It does not take a genius to see that these FACTS made the teams stronger then. I know what my eyes show me and I can think logically. Is there some statistic that I can rely on? No. But that does not change the argument. It's widely stated by the so-called experts that the game is more watered down today because of what I just stated. Players stayed in school longer and developed into better players over 3-4 years, generally speaking. As far as AAU ball goes, I'm not sure whether that helps or hurts players. Yes, they compete against other talented players, but they also develop bad habits. I don't think anyone can argue otherwise. Players in the past generally had better fundamentals because fundamentals were stressed over high flying dunks.

Fact: Freshman started and played a key role in our 2012 championship. Your facts aren't facts.
 

mjj_2K

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Jul 11, 2010
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No doubt it's opinion. But, it's opinion backed by facts. The FACT is the best players in college basketball generally stayed in school 3-4 years back then. That's a FACT. They do not now. That's a FACT. It does not take a genius to see that these FACTS made the teams stronger then. I know what my eyes show me and I can think logically. Is there some statistic that I can rely on? No. But that does not change the argument. It's widely stated by the so-called experts that the game is more watered down today because of what I just stated. Players stayed in school longer and developed into better players over 3-4 years, generally speaking. As far as AAU ball goes, I'm not sure whether that helps or hurts players. Yes, they compete against other talented players, but they also develop bad habits. I don't think anyone can argue otherwise. Players in the past generally had better fundamentals because fundamentals were stressed over high flying dunks.
Funny you mention this in regards to the 95-96 team, because that was actually right when players stopped staying 3-4 years.

1995 NBA draft, 1st 5 picks= 4 college sophomores and a HS player. And Jason Kidd had left as a sophomore in 94.

And all your talk about fundamentals sounds great, except you need to explain why NBA shooting (and the majority of NBA players are still guys who played more than 1 year in college) is better than ever. So yes, lots of people can argue otherwise, with lots of evidence (beyond "I say so") to back that up.

Also, that 96 team had Antoine Walker (and he was pretty great). Talking about fundamentals and Walker in the same sentence is kind of absurd. He was exactly the type of flawed but uber-talented player that you're criticizing.

I'll also mention that as nice as it is to think that experience makes all the difference in the world, raw talent has a way of throwing that equation out of kilter. I loved 96, and the non-stop dominance from mid-December through the FF (with one blip) was what dreams are made of. However, I can't say I'm certain that team would beat 11-12. Or last year. More experienced, more cohesive, yes- but probably not more talented. So you never know.
 

BourbonBalz

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Fact: Freshman started and played a key role in our 2012 championship. Your facts aren't facts.
What's your point? Lots of freshmen do that today because the best players never play past their freshman year. That's the whole point to this discussion.
 

BourbonBalz

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Funny you mention this in regards to the 95-96 team, because that was actually right when players stopped staying 3-4 years.

1995 NBA draft, 1st 5 picks= 4 college sophomores and a HS player. And Jason Kidd had left as a sophomore in 94.

And all your talk about fundamentals sounds great, except you need to explain why NBA shooting (and the majority of NBA players are still guys who played more than 1 year in college) is better than ever. So yes, lots of people can argue otherwise, with lots of evidence (beyond "I say so") to back that up.

Also, that 96 team had Antoine Walker (and he was pretty great). Talking about fundamentals and Walker in the same sentence is kind of absurd. He was exactly the type of flawed but uber-talented player that you're criticizing.

I'll also mention that as nice as it is to think that experience makes all the difference in the world, raw talent has a way of throwing that equation out of kilter. I loved 96, and the non-stop dominance from mid-December through the FF (with one blip) was what dreams are made of. However, I can't say I'm certain that team would beat 11-12. Or last year. More experienced, more cohesive, yes- but probably not more talented. So you never know.
Yes, it started around that time, but most players still stayed around until their junior or senior year. Not all, but most. Tim Duncan played four years. There are many other examples as well.
 

kybassfan

Heisman
Jul 1, 2005
20,032
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What's your point? Lots of freshmen do that today because the best players never play past their freshman year. That's the whole point to this discussion.

Freshmen were driving force on the dominant team. They proven successful in spite of some teams laden with upper classmen. The point being, your facts aren't facts. Just opinion.
 

Cowtown Cat

Heisman
Aug 23, 2015
24,204
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I'll take the 1996 Cats in a 7 game series over any other team in the history of college ball, not just in UK history. That's my opinion.
 
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CharlieT71059

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Apr 11, 2009
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I think Pitino got mad because you know the fans were eating his butt out. He just flipped them off, not thinking that someone would be recording it
 

kyjeff1

Heisman
Sep 8, 2012
51,281
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Can anyone think of a player from the 90's that was as dynamic as Anthony Davis, John Wall or Ben Simmons?
I only ask because I think some of today's freshmen are > stud seniors from the 90's. Would you take the 1997 version of Tim Duncan over the 2012 version of AD? Would you put 1992 Bobby Hurley or 1998 version of Wayne Turner over 2010 John Wall or 2016 Tyler Ulis? I don't think I would. I think today's Freshman are as good and possibly better than yesterday's seniors.
 

JPScott

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Sep 16, 2001
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What's mind boggling to me is that UK had Nazr Mohammed, Scott Padgett and Cameron Mills all on the JV team that year. Two future NBA guys were on the JV team. That's ridiculous.

Padgett didn't play on the JV team that year. He was out of school at the time.

But Nazr and Frank Vogel were both on the team, so that counts as two future NBA guys.
 

BigBlueCatNation

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Jan 31, 2006
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It's the greatest team of all time.

Consider this. Cal has yet to put a team on the floor who could beat them, at least majority outa 7. However you wantna do it, it's still the best. That's insane.

Rick put that together whether people like it or not. UK RICK put that together.

Screw Lousville. Don't let that bullpiss get in the way of what we were.

Honor them all. I'm all for making rick regret his decision, which he does. Let's roll.

Very well said.
 

Cowtown Cat

Heisman
Aug 23, 2015
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Padgett didn't play on the JV team that year. He was out of school at the time.

But Nazr and Frank Vogel were both on the team, so that counts as two future NBA guys.
I stand corrected. He was mowing grass I think. Ha!