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we would beat Michigan State

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BlueCat43

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Sep 21, 2010
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SpartyRBS said:
I laughed because we are at the tail end of a 4 game crunch and were exhausted. It's a huge reason why Louisville jumped out to an early lead. They came out with far more energy.

IMO, we are a much better team than Louisville and put it together for maybe 10 minutes of gameplay to take over the game.

The best part of this MSU team is the fact that numerous guys can step up. Izzo has a lot to work with even with Schilling injured.

I've also never heard of playing hard as some sort of quasi negative used to downgrade a team. Hilarious. Oh you won? Well, well, uh, you just play hard!! So there!

Good times.
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I agree with you that MSU is a better team than UL (who doesn't look good at all BTW) and I expected you guys to destroy them...you didn't. I will give you a little of a pass given you had played so many games in close succession (even though our best game thus far was against a #5 Duke as our 3rd game in 5 days when as a poster above said we made them look like a HS team).

I don't buy that Izzo has multiple players who can "step up". Valentine IS the team. If he doesn't go for 15-20 then MSU is mediocre.

As far as the "play hard" comment, I don't think it was meant as a negative as much as he was saying that many teams haven't got to the point were they play at the level of intensity that they will need to. MSU is there.
 
kyjeff1

kyjeff1

Heisman
Sep 8, 2012
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SpartyRBS said:
I laughed because we are at the tail end of a 4 game crunch and were exhausted. It's a huge reason why Louisville jumped out to an early lead. They came out with far more energy.

IMO, we are a much better team than Louisville and put it together for maybe 10 minutes of gameplay to take over the game.

The best part of this MSU team is the fact that numerous guys can step up. Izzo has a lot to work with even with Schilling injured.

I've also never heard of playing hard as some sort of quasi negative used to downgrade a team. Hilarious. Oh you won? Well, well, uh, you just play hard!! So there!

Good times.
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Wait, nobody is saying that MSU playing harder than everyone else is a bad thing. MSU could make it to the FF and win the whole thing just because they play so hard.

You have your reasons for why UL jumped out to a lead but I think it has more to do with UL having a couple of 5th year guards that knew they could penetrate (that's funny because it's UL I'm talking about) at will and make MSU foul. Let's not discount what UL was able to do and it wasn't because your guys were tired. It's okay to believe that there are teams out there that can beat MSU and on a neutral court I think UL beats MSU but that's just my opinion.

Also, you say MSU has a lot of guys that can step up? Who would that be? You don't have anything that any other team in the top 30 has. You have a PG that really isn't a PG, he is the equivalent of our Dominique Hawkins. He's not a guy that can put a lot of pressure on a defense but he can defend.

I think Izzo is doing a great job coaching this team and I think Valentine is in the running for POY but if you didn't see that beyond Valentine and Forbes you have a bunch of hard playing Joes I can't help you. There were a lot of guys that were afraid to shoot the ball last night even though they were wide open. It was a tight game and they didn't feel confident enough to shoot. That's all Boston was saying.
So if you'll excuse me now I have to go barf. I had to complement UL and defend Boston in the same post. Yuck.
 
O

Orange Soda King

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Louisville should have guarded the 3 better at the end of the game, and Mahmoud left points on the floor by not dunking some of those 1-footers, but that charge call near the end was quite terrible. That's the epitome of not playing real defense.

Of course, one call alone doesn't affect the outcome. Valentine and Forbes were $$$$ last night. Overall an exciting game to watch
 
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anon1763419335

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Feb 10, 2006
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msu is a good team. playing hard is a skill. they do it well. they have too though, no choice. they start 3 players right now that are basically useless in narin, bess, and costello. in order to beat good teams...they need valentine and another guy to go off.

ku chocked down the stretch and you can make the case that ul played better. if msu is sitting here at 6-2 with a win over unranked providence...is anyone scared of msu?

msu is a good team, limited talent and size, highly dependent on valentine. they will win a lot of games.
 
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Primedfor9

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They have three guys who are legit in Valentine, Forbes, and Davis along with good tough role players. Izzo often wins a lot with teams like this.

Edit to say they should have four really good players by March when Eron Harris will probably be playing much better. It's really stupid to say they're not good because they didn't blow out UL.
 
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anon1763419335

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Feb 10, 2006
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Primedfor9 said:
They have three guys who are legit in Valentine, Forbes, and Davis along with good tough role players. Izzo often wins a lot with teams like this.

Edit to say they should have four really good players by March when Eron Harris will probably be playing much better. It's really stupid to say they're not good because they didn't blow out UL.
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MSU isnt going to blow out anyone really. dont have the talent to do it. good steady team, they play hard. very dependent on making threes. not much talent to score inside the arch.
 
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SpartyRBS

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kyjeff1 said:
Wait, nobody is saying that MSU playing harder than everyone else is a bad thing. MSU could make it to the FF and win the whole thing just because they play so hard.

You have your reasons for why UL jumped out to a lead but I think it has more to do with UL having a couple of 5th year guards that knew they could penetrate (that's funny because it's UL I'm talking about) at will and make MSU foul. Let's not discount what UL was able to do and it wasn't because your guys were tired. It's okay to believe that there are teams out there that can beat MSU and on a neutral court I think UL beats MSU but that's just my opinion.

Also, you say MSU has a lot of guys that can step up? Who would that be? You don't have anything that any other team in the top 30 has. You have a PG that really isn't a PG, he is the equivalent of our Dominique Hawkins. He's not a guy that can put a lot of pressure on a defense but he can defend.

I think Izzo is doing a great job coaching this team and I think Valentine is in the running for POY but if you didn't see that beyond Valentine and Forbes you have a bunch of hard playing Joes I can't help you. There were a lot of guys that were afraid to shoot the ball last night even though they were wide open. It was a tight game and they didn't feel confident enough to shoot. That's all Boston was saying.
So if you'll excuse me now I have to go barf. I had to complement UL and defend Boston in the same post. Yuck.
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Denzel Valentin - POY Candidate
Bryn Forbes - Catch and shoot 3 pt specialist
Deyonta Davis - Michigan Mr. Basketball, All American and will soon start (Izzo always plays upperclassmen in the beginning)
Eron Harris - Avg 17 ppg at West Virginia and is just getting started here

You don't need your entire team to be scorers. MSU has several guys that can step up. I like what I see out of Matt McQuaid and Nairn does well enough to bring the ball up the court and play good defense. Costello and Schilling are great rebounders. Once Schilling is back we will not need to play preferred walk on Kenny Goins at all. I suppose what I like so much about this MSU team is that they have a lot of pieces that play a role and not too many guys with dead minutes. Not everyone needs to score or rebound or lock down defense.

I'm surprised you were so impressed by UL. They don't seem very deep and had like 6 guys get major minutes with a couple more around the 10-15 min range. I don't know man. That's usually a bad sign in college basketball unless you're a team like Duke last year with a potential rookie of the year NBA candidate in waiting and I'm not seeing that on UL.

This is not to take away from Kentucky or any other team, obviously. It's a long season and anything can happen. There just isn't a team that jumps out to me that is head and shoulders above the others like UK, Duke, and Wisconsin last year. Not yet anyhow.
 
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CatPhight_rivals65113

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Crankdatmustard said:
Michigan State will lose several games this season.
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They almost lost to a two-bit pimp with half a testicle who plays an egyptian anus.

 
kyjeff1

kyjeff1

Heisman
Sep 8, 2012
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SpartyRBS said:
Denzel Valentin - POY Candidate
Bryn Forbes - Catch and shoot 3 pt specialist
Deyonta Davis - Michigan Mr. Basketball, All American and will soon start (Izzo always plays upperclassmen in the beginning)
Eron Harris - Avg 17 ppg at West Virginia and is just getting started here

You don't need your entire team to be scorers. MSU has several guys that can step up. I like what I see out of Matt McQuaid and Nairn does well enough to bring the ball up the court and play good defense. Costello and Schilling are great rebounders. Once Schilling is back we will not need to play preferred walk on Kenny Goins at all. I suppose what I like so much about this MSU team is that they have a lot of pieces that play a role and not too many guys with dead minutes. Not everyone needs to score or rebound or lock down defense.

I'm surprised you were so impressed by UL. They don't seem very deep and had like 6 guys get major minutes with a couple more around the 10-15 min range. I don't know man. That's usually a bad sign in college basketball unless you're a team like Duke last year with a potential rookie of the year NBA candidate in waiting and I'm not seeing that on UL.

This is not to take away from Kentucky or any other team, obviously. It's a long season and anything can happen. There just isn't a team that jumps out to me that is head and shoulders above the others like UK, Duke, and Wisconsin last year. Not yet anyhow.
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I think you're putting too much stock in guys that are really just role players. You have 2 studs and guys that are exceptional role players but that's all that's needed.
So UL had 6 or 7 players, you can win with that and they almost did. The other reason I spoke highly of UL's play is they have guys that MSU couldn't guard. Blame it on tired legs all you want but the rest of us know that MSU doesn't have anyone that can check Lee and that's not a knock on MSU, most teams won't be able to guard him. He can play.
MSU is solid but Boston's initial post in this thread is spot on and I can't describe it any better than he did. Fact is MSU is MUCH closer to their ceiling than teams like UK, KU, Duke and even UL.
 
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SpartyRBS

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kyjeff1 said:
I think you're putting too much stock in guys that are really just role players. You have 2 studs and guys that are exceptional role players but that's all that's needed.
So UL had 6 or 7 players, you can win with that and they almost did. The other reason I spoke highly of UL's play is they have guys that MSU couldn't guard. Blame it on tired legs all you want but the rest of us know that MSU doesn't have anyone that can check Lee and that's not a knock on MSU, most teams won't be able to guard him. He can play.
MSU is solid but Boston's initial post in this thread is spot on and I can't describe it any better than he did. Fact is MSU is MUCH closer to their ceiling than teams like UK, KU, Duke and even UL.
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Nah, disagree. MSU has a long way to go for guys like Bess, Davis, Schilling (injured), and Harris. I'll just assume you watched MSU last night for the first time along with most everyone else. We good. We real good. Combine that with the top in game coach around and it's a scary, scary combo.
 
kyjeff1

kyjeff1

Heisman
Sep 8, 2012
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SpartyRBS said:
Nah, disagree. MSU has a long way to go for guys like Bess, Davis, Schilling (injured), and Harris. I'll just assume you watched MSU last night for the first time along with most everyone else. We good. We real good. Combine that with the top in game coach around and it's a scary, scary combo.
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Seen every game they have played. My daughter graduated from MSU and I have a niece there now. I watch a lot of cbb my friend and MSU is a team I like to watch.
You keep naming players that are rated very low. Those guys aren't top tier talent, they are going to play hard but there's a reason Tum Tum got shut down everytime he tried to drive last night, he doesn't have tremendous athletic ability and neither do the other guys you keep bringing up. They have limitations.
You'll see.
 
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SpartyRBS

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kyjeff1 said:
Seen every game they have played. My daughter graduated from MSU and I have a niece there now. I watch a lot of cbb my friend and MSU is a team I like to watch.
You keep naming players that are rated very low. Those guys aren't top tier talent, they are going to play hard but there's a reason Tum Tum got shut down everytime he tried to drive last night, he doesn't have tremendous athletic ability and neither do the other guys you keep bringing up. They have limitations.
You'll see.
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Uh, huh.

Right. Well, good luck on your season, bud.
 
LadyCaytIL

LadyCaytIL

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Oct 28, 2012
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Dont blame all of us for some people being morons. Many of my fellow fans don't like thinking with their brains because it might break their hearts.
 
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moe#8

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Mar 28, 2009
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JFCats22 said:
Dumbest thread I have seen. We have struggled against crap teams and beat only one team so far by 25.
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I have to award you the dumbest person in the state award barring none. did you not see that my post was pure our regular visitors here, just a lot of dumb on here.
 
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ville 77

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Jul 15, 2013
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Maybe playing a true road game is not easy. Mich St is a lot better than UCLA. Sometimes games are about match ups. U.K. Matched up well against Duke in a early game. As for UL if you are silly if you don't think they are top 25 worthy. UL matches up well with UK this year so the game in Rupp might be closer than you think.
 
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keefsopeng

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ville 77 said:
Maybe playing a true road game is not easy. Mich St is a lot better than UCLA. Sometimes games are about match ups. U.K. Matched up well against Duke in a early game. As for UL if you are silly if you don't think they are top 25 worthy. UL matches up well with UK this year so the game in Rupp might be closer than you think.
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I'm going to have a lot of our (UK fans) jump down my throat for this.

UL is very good. Perfect make up of a team that Pitino can get a lot out of. I am worried about the game, I was worried minutely before tonight, after tonight my fears about this team were realized. We have as much if not more talent than anyone in the country but we very little toughness. Ulis is a bull dog but he can't physically impose on other teams. Briscoe seems like a bull dog as well but he has a lot to learn yet. Our bigs are all Charmin team. Murrary is probably the most talented guy in the NCAA outside of Simmons but he is very lackadaisical on the court.

I think we win the UL game because we have owned the series but UL's toughness could be problem if more than Ulis and Briscoe don't start playing with any kind of toughness.
 
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WestCoastRoses

Redshirt
Dec 1, 2015
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BostonCat2001 said:
msu is at their ceiling and their interior is pretty bad. lacks size and skill. guards are pretty 1 dimensional. they are winning because they are playing harder than other teams. but as the season goes along and young players get how hard you have to play...that advantage goes away.
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When has a Tom Izzo team EVER hit their ceiling in January or February, let alone in December? Have you had your head in the sand for his entire career?

Eron Harris was a 17 ppg scorer and 42% 3pt shooter as a sophomore at West Virginia before he transferred to MSU and had to sit out full year. His current numbers (6 ppg and 28% shooting from three) show that's he's not fully back yet. His upside is coming.

MSU is still without their starting center Gavin Schilling who's missed the entire season with turf toe. They've been starting a 6'5" SF at PF because their expected starting PF Marvin Clark missed the early part of the season with an injury and still isn't back up to speed yet. As a result they've been playing two walk-ons in the front court as a result, one of whom had 13 rebounds against Louisville.

Needless to say, this MSU team is far away from their mythical ceiling.
 
B

BAsil2Tyler

Junior
Mar 13, 2003
6,257
356
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MSU will be ranked #1 when the new polls come out next week. December polls mean nothing...never have. This UK team was not the best team in the nation and the country found out last night that #1 this season was premature for the winningest program in the history of college athletics.

As to beating MSU...neither fanbase will get the chance to see that game until March or April. By then, both teams will be completely different than what we've seen from Chicago, or Westwood, or East Lansing for that matter.

If that game happens, I'll take The Program and coach with the same number of Final Four wins and titles in his four trips - as the program and coach that is in the midst of the best 20 year run in its history with the same number of Final Four wins and titles as Cal has in less than a 1/3 of the time he's been in Lexington...

GO BIG BLUE!
 
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